2020 Democratic Nominee

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

Just now, SquishMitten said:

 

If you’re in Texas... candidate order is randomly drawn and varies by county. Assuming all the machines are the same, even if your preferred candidate is on the first screen, you are not allowed to make a selection without clicking the “more” button. My vote was for Warren, she was on the first screen, but when I tried to select her and move on, I got a message that said something like “You must view all pages before you can make your selection.” So, no shenanigans.

 

This.  Everyone calm down.

[TwiceHorn 31,471]

2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Do Bernie folks realize they are voting for a president not a dictator?   Bernie as President couldn’t get 1/10th of that done.

This is both a feature and a bug.  If confronted with the reality that I have to vote for Bernie, I will take solace in the fact that he can't get any of his grand plans through.

[Huckleberry 32,861]

9 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/398580-poll-majority-of-americans-say-the-would-not-vote-for-a
 

 

July 2018. That's fantastic.

Also, I appreciate the humor and irony in that I, of all people, am trying to explain to people why Bernie Sanders is a superior nominee.

[Huckleberry 32,861]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is both a feature and a bug.  If confronted with the reality that I have to vote for Bernie, I will take solace in the fact that he can't get any of his grand plans through.

No shit, that's actually another reason Sanders is a superior nominee. He motivates the young liberal and progressive base to vote with the low murmur that "we finally have OUR candidate" while you can reach out to older and more centrist voters with "You realize he's not gonna get all that shit passed through Congress but Trump has gotten his bullshit stamped and approved by Congress, right? Not to mention RBG is about to kick the bucket."

[David Dennison 18,860]

8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

There are a few exceptions.  One of them is even running in this very race you damned cynic.  

I enjoyed this post.

Edited March 3, 2020 by David Dennison

[Thiefery 4,995]

4 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

 

If you’re in Texas... candidate order is randomly drawn and varies by county. Assuming all the machines are the same, even if your preferred candidate is on the first screen, you are not allowed to make a selection without clicking the “more” button. My vote was for Warren, she was on the first screen, but when I tried to select her and move on, I got a message that said something like “You must view all pages before you can make your selection.” So, no shenanigans.

 

In VA.. Biden was on top, then warren, Castro, Then Bernie.. Bloomberg was on the very bottom behind Amy and Pete

[bad_teammate 13,195]

Well I guess we will see who they vote for.

We've got a candidate with every establishment wind possible at his back (the donor class, the media class, and the political class) vs. a candidate with the people-powered movements behind him (union memberships, social and economic justice activist groups, climate justice groups, legal justice groups, racial justice groups).

Last night was a huge night for the establishment. They finally got the bat signal from Obama and they're falling in line, confident they'll crush the hated populist. They read columns from neo-cons who love Biden and feel inspired that we can finally go back to 2008-2016, when the Democrats lost every lever of power nationwide except Obama himself, accomplishing very little other than setting the stage of a Trump victory and a right-wing Supreme Court.

But the reality on the ground doesn't change.

Beat Bernie in a brokered convention and Bernie himself will go out and stump for Biden. He'll give speeches, but his base won't listen to him, because his base isn't motivated by beating Trump and then continuing to suck the blood of the young and old for capital.

Those who pretended to be progressive for a few years for the clout are reverting to their class interests, just like I've been telling them they would. Just like was obvious this entire time.

Are we assholes for seeing it and making fun of it? Sure, but we were right.

As I've said, annoyingly, a million times: This is the war.

And it's not over now and it won't even be over if/when Biden takes the nomination (earned or not). It won't be over if Biden wins or loses against Trump. It's never over. Many of you want to act like there's a singular moment where Trump is defeated and then the credits roll. The war doesn't end.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

you can reach out to older and more centrist voters with "You realize he's not gonna get all that shit passed through Congress but Trump has gotten his bullshit stamped and approved by Congress, right? Not to mention RBG is about to kick the bucket."

I think their fear of SOCIALISM overcomes this logic.  The boomers grew up in the cold war and it triggers some sort of PTSD with them.

[David Dennison 18,860]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Well I guess we will see who they vote for.

We've got a candidate with every establishment wind possible at his back (the donor class, the media class, and the political class) vs. a candidate with the people-powered movements behind him (union memberships, social and economic justice activist groups, climate justice groups, legal justice groups, racial justice groups).

Last night was a huge night for the establishment. They finally got the bat signal from Obama and they're falling in line, confident they'll crush the hated populist. They read columns from neo-cons who love Biden and feel inspired that we can finally go back to 2008-2016, when the Democrats lost every lever of power nationwide except Obama himself, accomplishing very little other than setting the stage of a Trump victory and a right-wing Supreme Court.

But the reality on the ground doesn't change.

Beat Bernie in a brokered convention and Bernie himself will go out and stump for Biden. He'll give speeches, but his base won't listen to him, because his base isn't motivated by beating Trump and then continuing to suck the blood of the young and old for capital.

Those who pretended to be progressive for a few years for the clout are reverting to their class interests, just like I've been telling them they would. Just like was obvious this entire time.

Are we assholes for seeing it and making fun of it? Sure, but we were right.

As I've said, annoyingly, a million times: This is the war.

And it's not over now and it won't even be over if/when Biden takes the nomination (earned or not). It won't be over if Biden wins or loses against Trump. It's never over. Many of you want to act like there's a singular moment where Trump is defeated and then the credits roll. The war doesn't end.

Oh, good. You've mentally prepared yourself for disappointment.

That's important.

[Huckleberry 32,861]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I think their fear of SOCIALISM overcomes this logic.  The boomers grew up in the cold war and it triggers some sort of PTSD with them.

Sure, you're not gonna get all or even most of them. But it's a numbers game. Then you get a few more of them by talking about Social Security. Then a few more by asking about their health care. Etc.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Thiefery 4,995]

I'm not into politics but I am a medical coder risk adjuster..  Healthcare is jacked up.  Something has to change, Obama was doing something right but now premiums are even higher with less coverage.  Pre existing conditions have to be covered but at 3 x the costs.  Then of course prescription prices..

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It won't be over if Biden wins or loses against Trump. It's never over. Many of you want to act like there's a singular moment where Trump is defeated and then the credits roll. The war doesn't end.

Yes, the war will be over in this scenario.  You'll be the Japanese soldier on the island 30 years later that doesn't realize the war has been over for a long time.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,199]

I think it's unwinnable for the Dems, now.

Nominate Bernie and most moderate indies will hold their nose and vote for trump, b/c SOCIALISM!

Nominate Biden and the younguns stay home in droves and trump wins.

The Ledge is your friend.

[MidTexHorn 822]

Well this lifelong Republican voter is going to happily vote for Bernie later today. That's one Texas vote for positive change.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Oh, good. You've mentally prepared yourself for disappointment.

That's important.

Have I ever put Biden's odds of getting the nomination lower than Bernie's? Nope.

I will definitely be disappointed if the nominee is someone who actively loathes youth movements. It's going to suck to watch this opportunity get squandered and watch centrists link arms with Bret Stephens and David Brock and Jennifer Rubin and every other flavor of neo-con Republican. It's going to suck to watch hundreds of thousands of young people become jaded and disconnected from the Democratic Party and electoral politics in general.

Yes, that will suck and it will make me very sad.

I will be truly owned.

Congratulations in advance

[bad_teammate 13,195]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yes, the war will be over in this scenario.  You'll be the Japanese soldier on the island 30 years later that doesn't realize the war has been over for a long time.

So you think the youth-powered left-progressive political movement will disappear? Interesting.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yes, the war will be over in this scenario.  You'll be the Japanese soldier on the island 30 years later that doesn't realize the war has been over for a long time.

Yeah you’re right. As the wage gap gets bigger and bigger and the middle class gets smaller and smaller everyone will just give up because the old man they supported lost. Without a cranky old Jewish man to lead them the whole thing falls apart. The streets will be full of poor people weeping and worshiping billionaires. It’s not like another business as usual president who will continue exacerbate all of the problems facing the poor and middle classes will result in more people wanting change. It will be just like the 50s and everyone will shake hands and be respectful and have good jobs and the kids will go to the sock hop. 

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

So you think the youth-powered left-progressive political movement will disappear? Interesting.

No, but they will be neutered due to the complete destruction of our government functioning in any semblance of democratic fashion.  Actual bloody revolution will be the only solution here.

 

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Yeah you’re right. As the wage gap gets bigger and bigger and the middle class gets smaller and smaller everyone will just give up because the old man they supported lost. Without a cranky old Jewish man to lead them the whole thing falls apart. The streets will be full of poor people weeping and worshiping billionaires. It’s not like another business as usual president who will continue exacerbate all of the problems facing the poor and middle classes will result in more people wanting change. It will be just like the 50s and everyone will shake hands and be respectful and have good jobs and the kids will go to the sock hop. 

It wasn't just about Biden.  It's about any Dem losing to the dotard.  This is the one and only shot.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

No, but they will be neutered ...

Good luck!

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

9 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I think it's unwinnable for the Dems, now.

Nominate Bernie and most moderate indies will hold their nose and vote for trump, b/c SOCIALISM!

Nominate Biden and the younguns stay home in droves and trump wins.

The Ledge is your friend.

Where do more moderates live?  Where do more younguns live?  Where do Democrats need every single voter and where can Democrats afford to lose a few votes?  If you were a betting man and knew how the electoral college worked, which scenario is more appealing?

I know it's fun to curse the establishment, but when presented with these two options the strategy makes sense.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[babysdaddy 2,724]

19 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

We will fight for you too. Mental health benefits are part of Medicare for All. Best wishes to you, with all sincerity. 

Appreciate that but now I think I know why you support Bernie.  1400+ posts on a political message board since January tell me you're either paid or need mental health support, with all sincerity.  

Now going out to vote for Biden.

[gmr548 16,580]

I think Biden is a mistake. I obviously am not a Democrat but I think historically a couple of things are true.
Republicans win by running against something or someone.
Democrats win by running for something or someone.
Just the way it seems to me. Biden is simply a plan to run against Trump, he brings no refreshing ideals that liberals care about. He'll stand up for Obamacare but only because he's tied to the first three syllables. He was in favor of the Iraq War, he is in favor of draconian drug laws, he was in favor of ending the ability to discharge student loans through bankruptcy and on and on. It's not just Bernie bros who will be turned off. Biden offers literally nothing to be hopeful about for liberal and progressive voters.

Exactly. Joe Biden doesn't inspire anyone. He has no message aside from "Trump is bad!" Generates no enthusiasm among voters. That's a proven losing recipe in a Presidential election.

“Girl boss”, really?

How misogynistically condescending. Be careful, don’t let the mask slip.

Not even a week ago all you could post was “Beat us!” when various posters were discussing Bernie’s perceived shortcomings.

You’ve been rude and condescending and insulting to anyone not in the Bernie cult ever since Iowa, NH, and Nevada while taking what looks to be in hindsight a very premature victory lap.

Now you’re accusing me and other posters on your side as liars and acting out of grievance and spite and claiming we’re fucking over swaths of people because we don’t want to vote for Bernie.

I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m forced into making a pragmatic choice from the options left.

And considering the distorted disingenuous slanted stuff you’ve continuously posted about other candidates - especially Pete, who I actually despise - it’s really fucking rich that you’re now clutching your pearls at people “lying” about The High Sparrow.

In closing, beat us.

Bernie over Biden is an easy choice for me, but you have to tip the cap to a good takedown when you see one. Good post.

[BrickHorn 18,234]

32 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So you have one tweet of one NBC poll taken after Trump's messaging machine laid off of Biden for a month when he looked like he'd lost the nomination? I'll stick with the larger data set.

I’m not saying that I’m ignoring other data.  Frankly, I hadn’t seen the data you posted before.  My point is that some recent data shows Biden with much better numbers in swing states compared to Bernie.  The data you posted shows the two are very close, but doesn’t reveal an overwhelming advantage for Bernie.

[Hank Kingsley 20,939]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Those who pretended to be progressive for a few years for the clout are reverting to their class interests, just like I've been telling them they would. Just like was obvious this entire time.

 

Bernie has pulled the party and voters left fairly quickly over the last 5 years. But if they're not 100% on the Bernie train now and prefer another candidate, they are cast off as "centrists" by the media, "shitlibs" on the internet, etc. The binary thinking is harmful.

Should people have thicker skin? Yes. It it understandable that some people are going to reject a movement that thinks they're assholes? Yes. 

 

 

[Skipper 6,135]

31 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

There are a few exceptions.  One of them is even running in this very race you damned cynic.  

That's rich.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5,793]

What a world we live in where SOCIALISM is considered worse than the shit that they are going to hit Biden with. One thing vs countless things 

[Hank Kingsley 20,939]

I

 

[heso 2,794]

1 minute ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

What a world we live in where SOCIALISM is considered worse than the shit that they are going to hit Biden with. One thing vs countless things 

And the socialism thing can be countered to a degree by pointing out all of the ways the government assists the ruling class. 

[bad_teammate 13,195]

We make fun of Q-Anon boomers, but at least they are mad at actual powerful figures in the world and not random anonymous Internet assholes.

I think they might be more worthy of respect than people whose entire political identity is wrapped up in hurt feelings about posters.

[HenryJames 66,052]

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,939]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

We make fun of Q-Anon boomers, but at least they are mad at actual powerful figures in the world and not random anonymous Internet assholes.

I think they might be more worthy of respect than people whose entire political identity is wrapped up in hurt feelings about posters.

And...there it is.

Was only a matter of time before siding with crazy Trumpkins over liberals. 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

8 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

What a world we live in where SOCIALISM is considered worse than the shit that they are going to hit Biden with. One thing vs countless things 

You must be new to this timeline. Welcome, traveler! 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

#2 and #3 seem to conflict. "politics that no longer exist" vs. "ideal world in which everyone plays nice online".

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

44 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I think this is overblown hysteria, to be honest. You are viewing only the negatives and not the positives of a Sanders nomination in terms of getting out the vote. And that goes back to my original point. Democrats and liberals want to vote for something, not against something. The GOP base could be convinced to hate a ham sandwich and show up in droves to vote against it. They will turn out to vote against Biden just as much as against Sanders by the time November rolls around.

The question is which candidate will get the liberal vote to the polls.

Where is the evidence of Sanders' supposed ability to expand the electorate and get out the vote?  Because we really haven't seen it in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, or South Carolina.  And we really didn't see it in his 2016 run, either.  And there's no empirical evidence to indicate that non-voters or infrequent voters are more liberal than regular voters.  Actually, the evidence indicates the opposite.

Your problem in Texas--and in those 40 House districts that we flipped in 2018--is that the liberal vote isn't very big.  It's not enough to win in Texas, and it's not enough to win in those districts.  You need a coalition of liberals and moderates (and, gasp--even a few conservatives) to win.  And Sanders is a stick of dynamite that will blow up that coalition.

You may get your liberal vote--though there's no indication that it'll be much higher than normal--but that's a path toward minority status in the Texas Legislature and in the U.S. House of Representatives.

[mchookem 16,336]

43 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I think it’s cool how many liberals are supporting Biden not out of any belief in his policies or abilities but as a fuck you to the people on the internet who say mean things. 

as i said yesterday:

11 hours ago, mchookem said:

 

there are people here that have said they will now vote for Bernie despite supporters like you. 

get over yourself

 

eta: to clarify, that was directed at b_t saying the same thing

Edited March 3, 2020 by mchookem

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

We make fun of Q-Anon boomers, but at least they are mad at actual powerful figures in the world and not random anonymous Internet assholes.

I think they might be more worthy of respect than people whose entire political identity is wrapped up in hurt feelings about posters.

dude

[bad_teammate 13,195]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And...there it is.

Was only a matter of time before siding with crazy Trumpkins over liberals.

Is hurt feelings about Internet posters a feature of liberalism? That's news to me.

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

Where is the evidence of Sanders' supposed ability to expand the electorate and get out the vote?

Bernie has won a whole lot of primaries and caucuses.

Joe was won... 1.

[Jhawk 1,075]

44 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I think it’s cool how many liberals are supporting Biden not out of any belief in his policies or abilities but as a fuck you to the people on the internet who say mean things. It’s almost like the Republicans who vote for and support Trump solely because “lol libtard tears.” So let’s get this party started. Who cares if we keep our decaying healthcare system as it is systematically picked apart by Republicans so that millions lose coverage and keep our quest for endless war going, Bernieweedbro69 who responded to one my my tweets with “ok boomer” has lost, so therefore I win. 

It’s almost like people don’t like being berated constantly for opinions that are assumed by the person doing the berating. It’s like that turns them off or something. The “get on board with Bernie and ALL of his policies or you’re a fucking retard and will cost us the election” stance isn’t exactly open arms to run into. It actually has the counter effect and makes people who are turned off by large groupings of people (like basket of deplorable) assume that everyone in favor of the offending candidate/constituents are of the same opinion. 

There is discourse, disagreement, and differing opinions. The extremes of each party have made it so if you believe in one opinion of one candidate that means you will die on the cross for that candidate and their most ugly characteristics. It’s simply not true and just like that created a whole swath of never trumpers it will create never bernie groups. Stop saying my way or the highway and reach out to find compromise in your own party and trump is easy to beat. If not then don’t be pissed when you start a civil war internally and then lose. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Jhawk

[GSU&UT 1,798]

50 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

The losing the House narrative seems very odd to me.  Are we supposed to believe most people connect their vote for president with some innate need to balance it against the congress?

We can argue fairly about Bernie's chances against Trump, but there is probably just as much of an equal chance (that is damn near zero percent) that we lose the House with Bernie or Biden at the ticket. You aren't going to see huge turnout for Biden either.

Edit: B_T pointed this out too, Biden actively shit on the youth movement in this country. They aren't going to be enthused to vote for him no matter how much Trump is worse.

Edited March 3, 2020 by GSU&UT

[bad_teammate 13,195]

Which makes you more angry: Internet posters lording their moral superiority over you or a political system that breaks people down into slurry to feed the 1%?

[GSU&UT 1,798]

41 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Oh, good. You've mentally prepared yourself for disappointment.

That's important.

I definitely went through that stage of grief last night, going to still work like hell for Bernie but I'll reluctantly vote for Joe if he gets the most delegates.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

We can argue fairly about Bernie's chances against Trump, but there is probably just as much of an equal chance (that is damn near zero percent) that we lose the House with Bernie or Biden at the ticket. You aren't going to see huge turnout for Biden either.

Ok, I think I misunderstood the premise.  So you are saying that we would lose the House because the turnout for Rs will be greater?

[Huckleberry 32,861]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Where is the evidence of Sanders' supposed ability to expand the electorate and get out the vote?  Because we really haven't seen it in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, or South Carolina.  And we really didn't see it in his 2016 run, either.  And there's no empirical evidence to indicate that non-voters or infrequent voters are more liberal than regular voters.  Actually, the evidence indicates the opposite.

Your problem in Texas--and in those 40 House districts that we flipped in 2018--is that the liberal vote isn't very big.  It's not enough to win in Texas, and it's not enough to win in those districts.  You need a coalition of liberals and moderates (and, gasp--even a few conservatives) to win.  And Sanders is a stick of dynamite that will blow up that coalition.

You may get your liberal vote--though there's no indication that it'll be much higher than normal--but that's a path toward minority status in the Texas Legislature and in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Where is the evidence of Biden's ability to get out the vote in a general election? I know you realize that 2008 was Obama and not Biden.

You are approaching this like an old school NFL coach making a decision after a touchdown. Bernie Sanders is going for two and Joe Biden is kicking the extra point. You are comparing the negatives of one to the positives of the other and not taking the opposite sides into account. I fully admit that Sanders is a risky move in some ways. Biden is also risky and that is being completely ignored by many people.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Huckleberry

[ndawg 1,242]

4 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

It’s almost like people don’t like being berated constantly for opinions that are assumed by the person doing the berating. It’s like that turns them off or something. The “get on board with Bernie and ALL of his policies or you’re a fucking retard and will cost us the election” stance isn’t exactly open arms to run into. It actually has the counter effect and makes people who are turned off by large groupings of people (like basket of deplorable) assume that everyone in favor of the offending candidate/constituents are of the same opinion. 

There is discourse, disagreement, and differing opinions. The extremes of each party have made it so if you believe in one opinion of one candidate that means you will die on the cross for that candidate and their most ugly characteristics. It’s simply not true and just like that created a whole swath of never trumpers it will create never bernie groups. Stop saying my way or the highway and reach out to find compromise in your own party and trump is easy to beat. If not then don’t be pissed when you start a civil war internally and then lose. 

We all choose what medium for discourse we participate in. If you choose participate in social media, you're agreeing to venture into the wild west.

Measuring political campaigns by gauging the relative degree of vitriol in their supporter's anonymous youtube comments and twitter replies doesn't actually help anything.

[Brisketexan 105,139]

4 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

If not then don’t be pissed when you start a civil war internally and then lose. 

Strong.

And I say that as someone who has about the same meh level of enthusiasm for both Biden and Bernie.  

Internal civil wars based on ideological purity tests generally don't turn out well.  Either the ideologues lose, because they never built any bridges (a big risk in a diverse, thinking party), or the ideologues win, and the party goes from an entity with a platform and beliefs to a simple cult (what happened to the GOP under Trump).

Governing this country 100% in line with the ideals of the 1/3 who are simple-minded racist shitbags - and fuck what anyone else thinks - is bad news for the other 2/3 of the country.  It's terrible governance.  Governing this country 100% in line with the ideals of the 1/3 who are hardcore democratic socialists - and fuck what anyone else thinks - won't sit well with the other 2/3 of the country (or at least, that's how the other 2/3 currently feel).

This is either a great or a terrible time to be selling uncompromising ideologues.  

[GSU&UT 1,798]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ok, I think I misunderstood the premise.  So you are saying that we would lose the House because the turnout for Rs will be greater?

My point is that it will take a perfect storm of chances to lose the House regardless of whoever is at the top of the ticket, winning the presidency is a whole other matter.

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

4 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

We can argue fairly about Bernie's chances against Trump, but there is probably just as much of an equal chance (that is damn near zero percent) that we lose the House with Bernie or Biden at the ticket. You aren't going to see huge turnout for Biden either.

The vote in South Carolina notwithstanding, I suppose.

[Message Board User 12,395]

Can’t we all just get along?

[GSU&UT 1,798]

Just now, Ghost of LL said:

The vote in South Carolina notwithstanding, I suppose.

If South Carolina flips in the general election or even more districts because of Joe then awesome, the whole ballgame will be changed in electoral politics. I grew up right next to SC and live in Georgia, they don't have the kind of electorate that you saw which flipped suburban districts in Texas, Virginia, or North Carolina.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The vote in South Carolina notwithstanding, I suppose.

How about the 3 votes before SC? And all of Biden's failed campaigns before that?

hmmmmmmmmmm