2020 Democratic Nominee

[David Dennison 18860]

3 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I disagree. She'a an idealist who wants to get shit done. They are rarely successful in Washington.

Some people simply do not want to accept the fact that nothing happens on the Hill legislatively without compromise.

Edited March 5, 2020 by David Dennison

[Ghost of LL 15531]

5 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I disagree. She'a an idealist who wants to get shit done. They are rarely successful in Washington.

I think one can be an idealist and still be very effective.  I mean--recognizing that they have entirely different ideas--Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell were two very effective idealists (or maybe more accurately described as ideologues).

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Some people simply do not want to accept the fact that nothing happens on the Hill legislatively without compromise.

I don't see that as a bad thing, either. Compromise is important in a nation as diverse as ours. But The Twitters see compromise as weakness and are then shocked when their 'win at all costs' agenda is thwarted. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think one can be an idealist and still be very effective.

True, but that takes years to become both. Some of our greatest politicians were both, but none of them were freshmen congressmen. 

[G650 14256]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I don't see that as a bad thing, either. Compromise is important in a nation as diverse as ours. But The Twitters see compromise as weakness and are then shocked when their 'win at all costs' agenda is thwarted. 

I saw some stat about how Bernie won with those on Twitter and Biden won everyone else

[Thrawn 538]

9 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Sanders has been polling low in Florida way before that Castro comment came out. This isn’t big news, the olds don’t like Sanders. I just hope enough of them stay off the Trump wagon in the general. If Biden can keep them and some of those white suburban women, then the orange shit gibbon will have to start worrying about Florida.

[Michael Knight 12977]

 

[sidis 9828]

warren just dropped out so it is officially a two man race for everyone but dsa/fozz.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, sidis said:

warren just dropped out

 

YOU KNEW IT WAS COMING

[sidis 9828]

1 hour ago, Zavala said:

lol o.k. Boomer, cute latina, don't know why you think posting super models on a football forum is gonna hurt my feelins

My wife and I are on the same page politically - no she's not MAGA, shes just redpilled.

 

Just remember, NO DATING TILL YOUR 30.

i know this is the early directive from the trump campaign that you go with this attack until the subpoenas starting coming down for hunter biden...and i also you are all unburdened by concepts like irony and hypocrisy, but man, you have to be a special brand of retard to trot this attack line out on biden when you support donald fucking trump.

[Longhorn94 2448]

My progression: Beto -> Warren -> Biden

Contributed to Biden this morning and have requested to volunteer. I am #RidinwithBiden

Edited March 5, 2020 by Longhorn94

[Turkleton 145]

Jesus, it's about fucking time.....

[gmr548 16580]

Warren's support is predominantly educated whites. That's a pretty weak demo for Bernie. Biden beat him there decisively. Though it's possible Biden was just winning Republicans and Warren's been hoarding all the educated progressives, I don't think it's a given that Warren supporters will move to Sanders. It will be a lot closer to 50/50 than most expect.

Bernie over Biden for this Warren voter, for what it's worth (nothing since I already voted).

[Zonahorn 8079]

Living in a purple wonderland...

Edited March 5, 2020 by Calihorn

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

This is exactly why Warren is going to endorse Biden.  Sanders refuses to engage in the fundamentals of politics.  It's why he has never accomplished anything in the Senate.  It's why he is not going to win the nomination (again).  And it's why, if he were somehow elected president, his would be a failed presidency.

The notion that you can't do business with someone who doesn't agree with you on all policy issues is astounding.  And it reflects the fact that Sanders' inability to expand his base of support isn't a bug, it's a feature.

In a similar vein, I recall a few years there was a top LSU recruit from Houston was asked if he had considered playing for the Univ of Houston.  His response was that they never reached out to him but he would have considered playing close to friends and family. 

Whether or not he really would have chosen UH over LSU is questionable but the answer is always no if the question is not asked.

If Bernie is not willing to reach across the aisle much less within his own party, you have to wonder how he could really lead. Without a doubt, it can be a challenge to convince people of different beliefs to come along with you but that is the game. Beto obviously does not fully agree with Biden, and previously called Biden out. But that didn't stop both of them from moving forward together. Perfect is the enemy of good. 

[bonnieblue 542]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Warren's support is predominantly educated whites. That's a pretty weak demo for Bernie. Biden beat him there decisively. Though it's possible Biden was just winning Republicans and Warren's been hoarding all the educated progressives, I don't think it's a given that Warren supporters will move to Sanders. It will be a lot closer to 50/50 than most expect.

Bernie over Biden for this Warren voter, for what it's worth (nothing since I already voted).

In my circle of educated white Warren voters, about 6/9 are pivoting to Biden. It's interesting because about half voted for Sanders in 2016. I think either his campaign has turned off a lot of people this go-round or people are just really scared of Trump winning again and are defaulting to the "safer" option.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

2 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

just really scared of Trump winning again

It's this. Safe Uncle Joe is going to be his entire campaign if he is surrounded by smart people.

[bad_teammate 13195]

The concern-trolling re: Sanders's strategy is off the charts.

He's losing, just like you wanted. Learn how to win.

The "DO SOMETHING!" attitude here regarding Bernie is silly. Bernie turns off the establishment figures (and yes, this includes Clyburn) and always have. His politics are not their politics. If you think him calling Jim Clyburn and saying, "Hey go with me over Joe please" would work you're an idiot.

Bernie's path was through the youth vote and non-voting working class people who believed in progressive values. If those didn't materialize he was going to lose. if it materialized he was going to win. It is not materializing right now and he's losing.

His path was NEVER to out-establishment-support Joe Biden. His path was NEVER to win Barack Obama's support over Joe  Biden. If you think that was a reasonable path for him to take by moderating his politics you are either extremely stupid or just making a completely dishonest effort to continue to dunk on a candidate who is already losing (which, in its own way, reveals how unhappy you are with your new choice -- Biden is zooming ahead and you aren't even celebrating that, you're just working your asses off to keep the Bernie hate alive because it's been your primary conversational motivator this entire time).

If you think I'm full of it, name the names of people who are endorsing Biden right now who would've endorsed Bernie before Super Tuesday.

None. None of those people would have even jumped in for Biden before Super Tuesday without Obama's intervention.

14 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Well, Bernie isn’t a Democrat until he runs for president so they aren’t really in the same party.

 

He's caucused with Democrats and worked legislatively with Democrats his entire career.

But facts haven't stopped you bitterly lying about Bernie yet, so why stop now?

20 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think one can be an idealist and still be very effective.  I mean--recognizing that they have entirely different ideas--Strom Thurmond and Richard Russell were two very effective idealists (or maybe more accurately described as ideologues).

Sanders has been extremely effective over the years.

The "He hasn't passed a ton of legislation!" thing is horseshit because that's not how the Senate works. There is no Senator with a huge list of legislative accomplishments that weren't just latching onto extremely popular legislation.

An example of his effectiveness is leading the left-wing of the party to stop Obama and Biden from cutting Social Security and Medicare. A smarter careerist move would be to allow bad things to happen to ensure his own ascendance in the party, right? Sure, that's fine. He could become just another cog in the machine and had a better chance to secure establishment support, but then he doesn't have the unified and powerful support from the people he has now.

He's not winning now and looks very unlikely to turn the tide.

But the fact that he's put himself in this position is extremely impressive, taking two establishment legends in a row down to the wire as an independent democratic socialist from Vermont.

[kevwun 15788]

I think it's that and a lot of people aren't comfortable swinging from extreme right to extreme left.  That doesn't fix anything in the long run.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

3 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

In my circle of educated white Warren voters, about 6/9 are pivoting to Biden. It's interesting because about half voted for Sanders in 2016. I think either his campaign has turned off a lot of people this go-round or people are just really scared of Trump winning again and are defaulting to the "safer" option.

Yeah--that's my experience too.  I know a number of people who fell within Warren's core demographic (white, college-educated women) who had a real dilemma on Tuesday.  Their head said Biden, but their heart said Warren.  Most of them voted for Biden.  And those who didn't had him as their second choice.

Sanders' campaign and supporters are living in this fantasyland in which all of Warren's support just escheats to him because they're both in the "progressive lane."  But politics is more complicated than that, and there's literally no data to support the Sanders' campaign's assumption.

[Zombie 284]

Escheats. I like it.

[washparkhorn 9939]

Warren has always been my No. 2 behind Bernie. It is heartening to see Warren's progressive New Deal/Big Structural Changes supporters continuing to fight for all of us. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Sanders' campaign and supporters are living in this fantasyland in which all of Warren's support just escheats to him because they're both in the "progressive lane."

There's nothing about this that's true. No one I know of expected Warren to ever endorse Bernie and I've been saying it over and over.

You guys are seriously at a point where you're just making up fantasy things to make yourselves feel superior. But at the end of the day you're all stuck pretending to like a candidate you thought was a joke a week ago.

 

[GoldAppleCorps 619]

The data has always supported the contention that Bernie Sanders had a very solid floor of around 30% of  the Democrat voters. They'd support him and turn out to vote loyally.

My contention is that he's also got around a 35% ceiling. We're about to test that.

30-35% is great when there's 10 players in the race. When the game is down to 2, it's no game at all.

Sanders has a unique, distinctive (sometime unhelpfully abrasive) message that appeals to a certain segment. That segment is notoriously unreliable at voting. It's also a tough message to expand to reach other voters.

Warren dropping out offers him a last, albeit slim, chance to advance. I'm predicting, though, that the majority of Warren supporters (including me, truth be told) are pragmatists looking towards winning political victories rather than championing raw ideals.

Sanders sought to smash the machine. The machine, though, is played through votes (and should be). The votes just aren't going to be there for him.

[Hank Kingsley 20939]

1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

Good article from Ezra Klein. Bernie is probably too old to change now, but he might want to heed this advice if he's serious about winning. The scorched Earth approach is not going to get him over the hump.  

 

I think a big flaw in Bernie's 2020 strategy was assuming that the 13+ million people that voted for him in the '16 primary would stick with him. 

His primary run 4 years ago was super impressive and he should be proud of it. But the reality is he got a lot of anti-Hillary votes that were not as pro-Bernie as his campaign probably thought. 

Turning out the youth vote IS really important. But he stopped trying to earn the vote of many normie Dems that voted for him in '16. 

 

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

14 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

In my circle of educated white Warren voters, about 6/9 are pivoting to Biden. It's interesting because about half voted for Sanders in 2016. I think either his campaign has turned off a lot of people this go-round or people are just really scared of Trump winning again and are defaulting to the "safer" option.

White, college-educated man here with an Asian, college-educated wife (we both also have professional degrees).  We both voted for Warren and are pivoting to Biden.  Neither of us are happy about a bunch of old white guys duking it out on stage, but we're going to suck it up and vote.  We're hopeful that Biden can provide a return to normalcy, re-establish sane U.S foreign policy, and rebuild the regulatory agencies that Trump has gutted.  That's not near the progressive agenda that we would like, but it's at least realistic.  Whereas we supported the progressive Warren because we mostly agreed with her policies and, importantly, she provided plans for implementing those policies, we don't feel like we can switch to the progressive Bernie because as far as we can tell his plan for implementation of his policies is to yell a lot and try to invoke a revolution. 

[workswithseed 2106]

3 hours ago, Brew said:

That’s a vast oversimplification. If it was that simple he would already be the nominee as the rich fucks are vastly outnumbered. Some of his policies are just plain stupid, some make sense. I think his stupid ones are off the charts stupid, which is why I’m uncomfortable supporting him. I also don’t think he will accomplish much of anything because of how tied to his principles he is and how unwilling he is to negotiate. It just ends in a stalemate with the US 4 years further down the road and not a lot of progress.

It's obvious that rich fucks tell the poor fucks what to think. Poor fucks are too stupid to think for themselves. Why do you think they're poor?

[TexEx15 17528]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The concern-trolling re: Sanders's strategy is off the charts.

He's losing, just like you wanted. Learn how to win.

Edited March 5, 2020 by TexEx15

[Bateshorn 9927]

I said it ten days ago:  Either Bernie is gonna break out of his 25-30% lane or he won't.  It's a two man race and Michigan is on the table on Tuesday.  It's now or never.   If Bernie can't be competitive next week, he's just going to look increasingly like a gadfly spoiler.

Unlike in 2016, he doesn't have Caucuses to prop his campaign up as he grinds losses across the south until he can find more demographically favorable places to compete later in the campaign.

[TexEx15 17528]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The concern-trolling re: Sanders's strategy is off the charts.

He's losing, just like you wanted. Learn how to win.

As a Pete supporter this is fucking rich coming from a Bernie Bro.

[tantric superman 4667]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You guys are seriously at a point where you're just making up fantasy things to make yourselves feel superior. But at the end of the day you're all stuck pretending to like a candidate you thought was a joke a week ago.

There is no more beer on tap.  There is just cans of Coors and a couple of angry little socialist hard ciders left in the cooler.

Coors was a joke when there was an interesting wheat beer and an iffy but palatable stout on tap, but now it beats out the fucking cider.

[Hank Kingsley 20939]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You guys are seriously at a point where you're just making up fantasy things to make yourselves feel superior. But at the end of the day you're all stuck pretending to like a candidate you thought was a joke a week ago.

Heed your own words here. You're making up the idea that a bunch of people are now excited about Biden. Very few people are thrilled about his policies or his personal vision for America's future. They just want to beat Trump in November.  

 

[mchookem 16336]

19 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

In my circle of educated white Warren voters, about 6/9 are pivoting to Biden. It's interesting because about half voted for Sanders in 2016. I think either his campaign has turned off a lot of people this go-round or people are just really scared of Trump winning again and are defaulting to the "safer" option.

or they just really didn't like Hillary. i mean, i voted for Sanders in the primary in 2016. i considered him this time but in the end there were other candidates i preferred this time. 2016 primary was an easier call for Bernie.

in the end, i'm not an ideologue or a platform driven voter, i am drawn to individuals more than issues.

[workswithseed 2106]

54 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I don't see that as a bad thing, either. Compromise is important in a nation as diverse as ours. But The Twitters see compromise as weakness and are then shocked when their 'win at all costs' agenda is thwarted. 

I can't think of one way that Trump has compromised. He's also on Twitter a lot.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You guys are seriously at a point where you're just making up fantasy things to make yourselves feel superior.

Well, yeah.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

12 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

Sanders sought to smash the machine. The machine, though, is played through votes (and should be). The votes just aren't going to be there for him.

Well said. His hard core followers don't understand that VOLUME does not equal QUANTITY.

[Brisketexan 105139]

9 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

The data has always supported the contention that Bernie Sanders had a very solid floor of around 30% of  the Democrat voters. They'd support him and turn out to vote loyally.

My contention is that he's also got around a 35% ceiling. We're about to test that.

30-35% is great when there's 10 players in the race. When the game is down to 2, it's no game at all.

Sanders has a unique, distinctive (sometime unhelpfully abrasive) message that appeals to a certain segment. That segment is notoriously unreliable at voting. It's also a tough message to expand to reach other voters.

Warren dropping out offers him a last, albeit slim, chance to advance. I'm predicting, though, that the majority of Warren supporters (including me, truth be told) are pragmatists looking towards winning political victories rather than championing raw ideals.

Sanders sought to smash the machine. The machine, though, is played through votes (and should be). The votes just aren't going to be there for him.

Good post -- just matter-of-fact.  A campaign built on a base that has a poor history of turning out when it matters is quite likely to fail.  And when you offer an approach that comes across as 100% "my way or the highway," you can't be surprised when a lot of people choose "the highway."

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

But the reality is he got a lot of anti-Hillary votes that were not as pro-Bernie as his campaign probably thought. 

I think this was likely a big mis-estimation by the campaign.  I suspect that a material percentage of Bernie's votes in 2016 were "not Hillary" votes.  Now that "not Hillary" isn't a motivator, what was the pitch to keep those votes - votes that would have gone to a more traditional candidate, just not one as shitty as Hillary?

5 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

White, college-educated man here with an Asian, college-educated wife (we both also have professional degrees).  We both voted for Warren and are pivoting to Biden.  Neither of us are happy about a bunch of old white guys duking it out on stage, but we're going to suck it up and vote.  We're hopeful that Biden can provide a return to normalcy, re-establish sane U.S foreign policy, and rebuild the regulatory agencies that Trump has gutted.  That's not near the progressive agenda that we would like, but it's at least realistic.  Whereas we supported the progressive Warren because we mostly agreed with her policies and, importantly, she provided plans for implementing those policies, we don't feel like we can switch to the progressive Bernie because as far as we can tell his plan for implementation of his policies is to yell a lot and try to invoke a revolution. 

Your take echoes that I hear from that same demographic (which is mostly our peers -- neighborhood, professional, etc.).  We actually WOULD prefer a more progressive agenda than Biden offers, but we also value pragmatism and the ability to actually implement that agenda.  I hope that Warren supporters -- and eventually, Bernie supporters -- end up taking a position of "Joe, you'll get our votes, but in exchange, you have to listen to what we have to say and take it into account in your policies."  And I hope Joe does just that.  I'm going to be curious to see what his team shapes up to look like (VP, people likely to get cabinet posts, etc.).  Those decisions are important.

[Red Five 40858]

27 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It's this. Safe Uncle Joe is going to be his entire campaign if he is surrounded by smart people.

Biden/Harris 2020: Lets End This Madness

or

A Return To Normalcy 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I can't think of one way that Trump has compromised. He's also on Twitter a lot.

If he's the model, then we need to destroy it.

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

My theory: Sanders’ only hope was for a plurality lead over a divided field and going into the convention with the message that the nominee has to be the person with the most votes and delegates even though he never initially met the threshold number of delegates. That’s all changed now. 
 

My best guess: Biden wins 1991+ delegates as margin of victory grows in his favor from here on out. 

[tantric superman 4667]

12 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

White, college-educated man here with an Asian, college-educated wife (we both also have professional degrees).

Chinese or Japanese?  And/or pics?

[bad_teammate 13195]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

I said it ten days ago:  Either Bernie is gonna break out of his 25-30% lane or he won't.  It's a two man race and Michigan is on the table on Tuesday.  It's now or never.   If Bernie can't be competitive next week, he's just going to look increasingly like a gadfly spoiler.

How on earth would he be a "spoiler" in a two-person race? If Biden gets a strong lead the people in the party who don't like Biden's politics don't even deserve the chance to vote for someone that shares their politics?

Man, this is really going to get pathetic as Biden continues to limp and look weak despite having every single possible advantage going for him.

"It's HIS turn!"

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Heed your own words here. You're making up the idea that a bunch of people are now excited about Biden. Very few people are thrilled about his policies or his personal vision for America's future. They just want to beat Trump in November. 

This is my entire point. You can't be excited about the choice you've made so now you're just punching left for no reason other than to deal with your own disappointment about the failure of your own preferred candidates. You refuse to autopsy yourself or your favored candidate, so you're just eating turds out of the same toilet you have been for a year+.

But nothing has fundamentally changed. The collective beliefs of the Pete/Liz supporters have turned out to be far more unrealistic and unwinnable as the Bernie Bros they're pretending to be superior to now. And the only refuge you can find is just dogpiling on behalf of a candidate you don't like.

#Unity, am I right!?

 

[Brisketexan 105139]

6 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

There is no more beer on tap.  There is just cans of Coors and a couple of angry little socialist hard ciders left in the cooler.

Coors was a joke when there was an interesting wheat beer and an iffy but palatable stout on tap, but now it beats out the fucking cider.

Say what you will....every now and then, a good old Banquet beer hits the fucking spot.

 

 

[Longhorn94 2448]

12 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

White, college-educated man here with an Asian, college-educated wife (we both also have professional degrees).  We both voted for Warren and are pivoting to Biden.  Neither of us are happy about a bunch of old white guys duking it out on stage, but we're going to suck it up and vote.  We're hopeful that Biden can provide a return to normalcy, re-establish sane U.S foreign policy, and rebuild the regulatory agencies that Trump has gutted.  That's not near the progressive agenda that we would like, but it's at least realistic.  Whereas we supported the progressive Warren because we mostly agreed with her policies and, importantly, she provided plans for implementing those policies, we don't feel like we can switch to the progressive Bernie because as far as we can tell his plan for implementation of his policies is to yell a lot and try to invoke a revolution. 

Same for us other than wife is from Minnesota instead of Asian. 

Everyone wants a revolution until they are in power and then revolutions dont look like such a great idea anymore.

Your reasons are almost exactly our reasons for moving from Warren to Biden. It will be interesting to see who he picks for VP. Harris? Abrams? Klobuchar? I would love Warren but dont think it will happen.

[bad_teammate 13195]

Going to be hilarious when Warren endorses Biden and like 50 people here scream, "SEE I TOLD YOU SO, B_T, YOU BERNIE BROS ARE SO STUPID FOR THINKING WARREN WOULD ENDORSE BERNIE!" after we've been saying for days that this is exactly what she would do.

 

[Brisketexan 105139]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Going to be hilarious when Warren endorses Biden and like 50 people here scream, "SEE I TOLD YOU SO, B_T, YOU BERNIE BROS ARE SO STUPID FOR THINKING WARREN WOULD ENDORSE BERNIE!" after we've been saying for days that this is exactly what she would do.

 

That's not why we think you're stupid.

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Going to be hilarious when Warren endorses Biden and like 50 people here scream, "SEE I TOLD YOU SO, B_T, YOU BERNIE BROS ARE SO STUPID FOR THINKING WARREN WOULD ENDORSE BERNIE!" after we've been saying for days that this is exactly what she would do.

 

🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍 amirite?

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

1 minute ago, Longhorn94 said:

Same for us other than wife is from Minnesota instead of Asian. 

Everyone wants a revolution until they are in power and then revolutions dont look like such a great idea anymore.

Your reasons are almost exactly our reasons for moving from Warren to Biden. It will be interesting to see who he picks for VP. Harris? Abrams? Klobuchar? I would love Warren but dont think it will happen.

I'd actually prefer Warren stay in what hopefully becomes a Democratic-majority Senate and help to push anti-corruption legislation then run again in 4 years after Biden chooses to retire after one term (though age might then be an issue).  I'm not really sure who I think would be best as his VP.  Harris sticks out the most to me, but it worries me that she didn't pick up much support in the primaries.  

[tantric superman 4667]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

Same for us other than wife is from Minnesota instead of Asian. 

Accent that makes you want to smother her or accent that makes you want to shoot drive a stake into your ear?  And/or pics (of Scandinavian beauty).

[gmr548 16580]

Warren has always been my No. 2 behind Bernie. It is heartening to see Warren's progressive New Deal/Big Structural Changes supporters continuing to fight for all of us. 

Yeah, that tweet thread is where I'm at. More I think about it, the more I think Warren supporters will sort between Bernie and Biden the same way the rest of the electorate has - by age.