2020 Democratic Nominee

[Foosters 17856]

25 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Um, Trump is the GOP now. 

This point is why I'm not fully sold on the "don't worry about policy differences, just support whoever runs against Trump."  

On one hand, yes I agree. Support whatever body they throw up there. Worry about policy and progressive goals later. On the other hand, you think the GOP is ever going to nominate a classic candidate again?  The days of GHWB and Mitt Romney are long gone. The next GOP candidate is either going to be a Trump child or a smoother version of Trump - someone who looks and talks like a politician, but who advances all of the worst policies and practices of the Trump administration. Is playing defense a viable strategy in perpetuity? At what point does the left lead with policy? 

I get that these are future hypotheticals which are largely irrelevant in light of the current debate, but just something I've been thinking about.

[USMCHorn 1369]

I think those who bring up the 2016 loss to Donald Trump are really forgetting how much independents - progressives and conservatives alike -  hated Hillary Clinton. Not to mention the fact that she ran what seemed like the most inept campaign of all time. Trump will not have the benefit of running against Hillary. We also now know that he's as terrible as we imagined as a President and that will not help him come November.

Edited March 5, 2020 by USMCHorn

[workswithseed 2106]

GHWB is literly hitler

https://www.nationalreview.com/2003/09/bushhitler-jonah-goldberg/

 

People have been calling Republicans Hitler since I was a kid. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

9 minutes ago, USMCHorn said:

I think those who bring up the 2016 loss to Donald Trump are really forgetting how much independents - progressives and conservatives alike -  hated Hillary Clinton. Not to mention the fact that she ran what seemed like the most inept campaign of all time. Trump will not have the benefit of running against Hillary. We also now know that he's as terrible as we imagined as a President and that will not help him come November.

Certainly a factor among many, many factors. But it doesn't mean anything in terms of deciding the nominee because neither is Hillary Clinton.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

57 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

But you've lost to "the most inept group in the history of politics" twice now.

Also, sorry to ruin your party, but I am in no way a "never Bernie".  I prefer other candidates, yes, but I would gladly vote for him if he was on the ballot in November.

That’s harsh but true.  Imagine getting rolled my Hilldawg and Biden.  Yikes

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

[Dirk X West 772]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

That’s harsh but true.  Imagine getting rolled my Hilldawg and Biden.  Yikes

Imagine voting for Hillary, seeing her lose to Donnie and then determining that Biden is the most "electable" candidate on offer.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

13 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Imagine voting for Hillary, seeing her lose to Donnie and then determining that Biden is the most "electable" candidate on offer.

The whole thing is fucked.  No doubt.  We have Biden vs Trump.  Sponsored by Depends, probably.  

[EuroHorn 3265]

You’re only getting a part-time Biden. He’s only half there. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

You’re only getting a part-time Biden. He’s only half there. 

So what’s Trump’s percentage of being there?  About the same as the current infection rate?

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

My apologies.

Don't defend never-bernie-bros - they don't deserve it. 

To your question, centrists need to stop looking at the Morning Joe's and David Frums as saviors. They do not know how to beat Trump. They know how to get centrist democrats to join their movement to keep the US moving rightward. That is not an accomplishment. 

I'm sorry, but I think this is ridiculous.

Joe Biden favors a public option.  I recognize that it's not the plan you want.  But it's certainly not a "rightward" movement.

He will reinstate DACA and pass it into law.  I would like more.  But that's not a "rightward" movement.

He has a plan to invest trillions of dollars in green energy with a goal of zero carbon emissions by 2050.  Maybe we could do better.  But it's not a "rightward" movement.

Joe Biden wasn't my first choice (or my second or third or fourth).  But he's going to be our nominee.  And more than being just better than Trump, he actually has policies that are good.  And at some point, you need to be happy with pretty good.

[WBT 20572]

4 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

they didn't need "universal policies" to win the last generation, so...

[Dbeasy 15051]

I'm sorry, but I think this is ridiculous.
Joe Biden favors a public option.  I recognize that it's not the plan you want.  But it's certainly not a "rightward" movement.
He will reinstate DACA and pass it into law.  I would like more.  But that's not a "rightward" movement.
He has a plan to invest trillions of dollars in green energy with a goal of zero carbon emissions by 2050.  Maybe we could do better.  But it's not a "rightward" movement.
Joe Biden wasn't my first choice (or my second or third or fourth).  But he's going to be our nominee.  And more than being just better than Trump, he actually has policies that are good.  And at some point, you need to be happy with pretty good.

Especially when the “better” policies are not only extremely unlikely to be implemented, they might even be worse policies.

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

 

[BradInATX 9208]

When this is all over in November, the Democratic Party needs to do an objective, full post-mortem on why Elizabeth Warren couldn't get more traction. She seemingly checked all the boxes. Name recognition, track record, debate performances, policies and platforms, and was arguably personable.

I'm not saying she should have won. Votes are still subjective. However, I want to see if there was a better reason than "we really don't want a female to run for President". If that really is the underlying cause, I'm not looking for condemnation so much as I am recommendations to try and help correct that.

She certainly checked all of the boxes. One time in about 3rd grade I decided that if I filled in every single bubble on the scantron test, I was certain to get a 100. I got a zero. Warren ran the same strategy. Why she lost is patently obvious. It's the same reason Beto lost. Trying to be everything to everyone makes you nothing to anyone.

I hope the post mortem from 2020 is for candidates to develop a platform and general strategy before going in, then work to sell their brand as the best, instead of deciding you were "meant for this" and then spending September through March figuring out who you are.

All of the failures of the losers this time are pretty obvious, and none are unfair.

The two people left have very clear brands that have not changed in years. That's not a coincidence. People trust them to be who they are.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

This point is why I'm not fully sold on the "don't worry about policy differences, just support whoever runs against Trump."   On one hand, yes I agree. Support whatever body they throw up there. Worry about policy and progressive goals later. On the other hand, you think the GOP is ever going to nominate a classic candidate again?  The days of GHWB and Mitt Romney are long gone. The next GOP candidate is either going to be a Trump child or a smoother version of Trump - someone who looks and talks like a politician, but who advances all of the worst policies and practices of the Trump administration. Is playing defense a viable strategy in perpetuity? At what point does the left lead with policy? 

I get that these are future hypotheticals which are largely irrelevant in light of the current debate, but just something I've been thinking about.

 

 

The "effective Trump" scenario doesn't do much for me. A smart person will never win the GOP primary again because their base of voters now seeks candidates that are as stupid as they are.

 

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

ROFL this is so embarrassing. WOW.

 

 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

14 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

ROFL this is so embarrassing. WOW.

 

 

Ummm. Wtf 

[Rougarou 594]

Lol it actually took me a minute to figure it out (ducks)

[Voldemort86 2259]

5 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

ROFL this is so embarrassing. WOW.

 

 

Still not as bad as all of the lies Fox News gives to the drones who watch that channel.

[bad_teammate 13195]

Longtime Hillary surrogate Hilary Rosen, who is a regular CNN contributor, announced her support for Joe Biden on CNN, then lied about MLK's words, then condescended to Nina Turner who was correcting her.

Realizing her mistake at 3AM, the new Biden supporter decided to "apologize" by calling Turner an "angry black woman".

Nina is constantly under racist attack from supporters of other campaigns, both low and high level supporters.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Any signs that Bernie has pivoted? That he listened to Ezra Klein and decided he needs to work with others that aren’t 100% with him on every issue? 

Getting Warren’s endorsement would have been a meaningful start. 

Any changes in messaging?

[Pam Cummings 9641]

16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No, it's not a game - "game" implies that the consequences are not serious.  Nonetheless, you're goddamned right that it involves game theory.

There are only two rules in this exercise:

1) Get elected/put in a position of power, so that

2) you can implement your agenda.

If you can't do #1, then your # 2 is, well, #2.  

 

 

Yeah dude, that all sounds well good, until you get your guy in there and realize that the other side isn't playing by the rules, and all his plans all get spiteblocked by piece of shit republicans, and the spineless pussy just lays there and takes it because his cabinet is filled with folks who are "on the payroll", so to speak.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Pam Cummings

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

16 hours ago, The Dog said:

Don’t understand all the support for Warren on this board. Lousy candidate but should be considered for a cabinet position if Biden wins.

Plenty of married dudes on here who won't get laid ever again if they don't have a post or two of remorse to read out loud to the wife.

j/k 

not really

[HenryJames 66052]

52 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Longtime Hillary surrogate...

 

But Hillary.

[gmr548 16580]

ROFL this is so embarrassing. WOW.
 
 

Hahaha holy shit.

[Brew 3049]

14 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

I still do not understand why the never-trumper Republicans did not primary Trump rather than co-opting the Democratic Party.

The never bernie bros are the most inept group in the history of politics. Lost to Trump twice already in 2016, did not enter a contestant in the 2020 Republican primary, and now think they should be deciding the Democratic Primary "because they know best."  

Utter hubris. 

Really, so now it’s the Republicans fault that Bernie may not win? The moderate D’s may actually still outnumber the ultra liberals in the world. Maybe Bernie should have pulled out last fall after his health issue and backed Warren. The race would look a lot different today if that would have happened. Maybe at some point he should have realized that he needed some middle ground support if he wanted to win. Expecting the more moderate D’s to canabilize each other the entire race may not have been the greatest plan. It could have happened long enough to get him the nomination still, but it’s going to be close.

[bad_teammate 13195]

33 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

But Hillary.

I only mentioned Hilary's past with Hillary to give some historical context.

I'm just pointing out the toxic racism of major Biden supporters. I hope Joe's campaign comes out with a statement condemning this and instructing his supporters to not engage in racist argumentation.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Longtime Hillary surrogate

That's all I needed to hear.

[HenryJames 66052]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

I'm just pointing out the toxic racism of major Biden supporters.

I know right.

[Brew 3049]

15 hours ago, Lobo said:

Bill Weld tried his ass off, but he couldn't make a dent.  Which is actually a good thing for many hard core Democrats.  Rather than support him and vote for him, most anti-Trumper GOP'ers broke off and backed myriad Democratic candidates.  

The 20 or so county region I am in had more votes cast for Trump than all the D’a combined. No one was beating him in a primary. Even those that were uncomfortable with him that I know  galvanized behind him after the impeachment process.

[bad_teammate 13195]

4 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

I know right.

I'm glad you're with me on this and agree with me 100%.

Really disgusting and shocking what this lady said and the overall dismissive racial attitudes being shown to black left-progressives in general and especially to Nina herself for being outspoken and refusing to demure as these elite white people demand of black women.

[HenryJames 66052]

Now do the Bernie Bros reaction to the South Carolina primary.

[bad_teammate 13195]

3 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Now do the Bernie Bros reaction to the South Carolina primary.

Can you show me an example of what you mean?

Because I just gave an example of a regular CNN contributor and Biden supporter being extremely racist towards a Bernie campaign official, so I'm assuming you saw something similar regarding the "Bernie Bro reaction to the South Carolina primary"?

I don't really know what to react to without that information. Sorry.

[HRSchenker 2268]

Now that Bernie is pretty much done, what's the plan moving forward? How is Biden going to bring progressives to his side or does it even matter at this point?

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Now that Bernie is pretty much done, what's the plan moving forward? How is Biden going to bring progressives to his side or does it even matter at this point?

The plan is to wrap up the primary, secure a solid VP, get Warren and Bernie to endorse Biden.

Focus the TV ads, social media blitz, etc. on 1) the ineptitude and corruption of trump, 2) proposed structural changes to strengthen elections, end gerrymandering, campaign finance reform, end dark money (HB 1), 3) the need to expand healthcare coverage... along with whatever else happens to poll well.

[bad_teammate 13195]

I think GW has a good read on Biden's plans.

Bernie's?

First, obviously, is to try to come back and win. He's behind about 70 delegates and there are 2900 left to win.

Even if he doesn't win outright, a strong loss gives him a better position to negotiate with Biden towards the end of the campaign for an earlier/more forceful endorsement and greater participation in the general.

Bernie is going to want policy platform changes, obviously, and probably continued reform of the DNC/nomination process.

After Super Tuesday, Bernie reiterated what he already said at the debate, which is that the person with the plurality should get the nomination, so there's no potential of Bernie trying to play games in the 2nd round. He already said that before and he's a trustworthy and honest person, so there wasn't any reasonable doubt, but it's always nice to reiterate things.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Longtime Hillary surrogate Hilary Rosen, who is a regular CNN contributor, announced her support for Joe Biden on CNN, then lied about MLK's words, then condescended to Nina Turner who was correcting her.
 

 

Realizing her mistake at 3AM, the new Biden supporter decided to "apologize" by calling Turner an "angry black woman".

Nina is constantly under racist attack from supporters of other campaigns, both low and high level supporters.

 

Reread these tweets with quotation marks around "angry black women."  She's telling people who are @-ing her to stop referring to her colleague as an "angry black woman."

Punctuation matters, and it often gets sacrificed on Twitter because of the character count.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Interesting thread.

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

I see what you mean. It definitely makes those Tweets a whole lot better (though it doesn't speak highly to her intelligence).

It doesn't change the racial/historical ignorance and racial aggression in the CNN appearance (which she apologized for, which is nice), but it does bring up something I hadn't thought of, which is that Joe Biden's followers were attacking Nina with racism so much that Rosen felt the need to address it.

I know the narrative is set in concrete that toxicity online is only a Bernie Bro thing, but that is obviously untrue. Exhibit #42069

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Interesting thread.

 

Excellent tweet thread, thanks for posting.

So fucking depressing. We owe these people so much and it's fucking heartbreaking to know that we're still not going to do right by them.

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

That tweet thread from Harriot made me think of two Tweets from white progressives that drove me fucking insane when I saw them. The black community just struggling to survive and white progressives are so fragile and weak.

One from a Bernie supporter showing idiotic paternalism:

One from a Warren supporter showing astonishing white fragility:

 

[Guest Lobo]

they look like the two girls at parties who begin every sentence with:  "You seem like an intelligent person..."  

[Biff Tannen 45685]

I'm starting to be terrified at the prospect of either Bernie or Biden debating the dotard.  I think Pete might be the only one that could really do it well.  Maybe Kamala.  But it takes a special kind of patience and a game plan to debate that hot tub of goo.  I feel like Biden will just get frustrated and Bernie will just keep repeating his same old schtick over and over instead of rebutting.  I hope I'm wrong.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

42 minutes ago, Lobo said:

they look like the two girls at parties who begin every sentence with:  "You seem like an intelligent person..."  

Just lemme finish! Just lemme finish! Just lemme finish!

[Pancho 44803]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I'm starting to be terrified at the prospect of either Bernie or Biden debating the dotard.  I think Pete might be the only one that could really do it well.  Maybe Kamala.  But it takes a special kind of patience and a game plan to debate that hot tub of goo.  I feel like Biden will just get frustrated and Bernie will just keep repeating his same old schtick over and over instead of rebutting.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

I don't think people will be watching the debates to make a decision about who to vote for.  The last election helped me realize people had their minds made up once the candidates were selected, and the debates were nothing but for show and drinking games. 

 

There really is no point in the debates anymore now that everything is online, on social media, and through sound bites.  We really should just stop the debates and go straight to election day.

[G650 14256]

I think the debates are completely worthless.

[Brisketexan 105139]

3 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah dude, that all sounds well good, until you get your guy in there and realize that the other side isn't playing by the rules, and all his plans all get spiteblocked by piece of shit republicans, and the spineless pussy just lays there and takes it because his cabinet is filled with folks who are "on the payroll", so to speak.

So, the choice is 1) don't get elected, but hey, you've got your principles, or 2) get elected, but be a pussy who just takes it?

Let's presume that's correct.  I'm still going with option 2, which is incrementally better, AND because I have a shot at working with the people in the cabinet etc on NOT being such spineless pussies.  Also, there's a corollary strategy: eliminate the fucking GOP from being able to block shit.  Encircle them, and destroy every last one of them in every race -- statehouse races, House races, Senate races.  Go after all of them.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

I don't think people will be watching the debates to make a decision about who to vote for. 

Yeah. I honestly want to meet a person who is "on the fence" in this election so I can smack them in the head. I get why you'd vote for Trump. I get why you'd vote for Biden/Sanders. But how could you be on the fence on these two polar opposite sides?

"I'm for Biden's progressive plan, but Trump's racism really turns me on. I'm so confused."

[Biff Tannen 45685]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Go after all of them.

[Chad Fuck 17681]

12 minutes ago, G650 said:

I think the debates are completely worthless.

I'll bet Mike Bloomberg agrees with you.