2020 Democratic Nominee

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Donald Trump and "the Republicans" are not the same thing.

That's like conflating Barack Obama with "the Democrats" as Obama's popularity stayed high and Democrats at large lost 1000 seats nationwide.

DONALD TRUMP GETS AWAY WITH FUCKING EVERYTHING.

Wake up. He's an absolute criminal  who couldn't be convicted if he shot someone on 5th avenue. He already said that. He told us already and he's spent 5 years living it out in our faces.

We aren't going to win by pulling the god damned mask off at the end of the Scooby Doo episode and surprising the audience with "OH HE WAS A LIAR ALL ALONG!". The audience already knows, he took the mask off himself and is dancing around with it.

The court jester isn't insightful because he's respected and noble, he's insightful because he has abandoned his own pretense and he rips away the pretense of his target.

Cool, and ... what? It beams into the skulls then ... what?

No you've got competing clips of both guys saying they're going to cut SS/Medicare and now Biden is in the mud with Trump where Trump is a 5th dan red belt and Biden doesn't know who his wife is.

Biden will need to run a campaign with hard, tangible, simply offers to the types of voters Trump is going to target. Not vague bullshit about decency and getting things done, but "I am going to give you this specific healthcare plan and I am going to take your medical and student debt away".

Specific, tangible, and meaningful offers. The people need someone to vote for, not just "this guy is mean you can't vote for him!"

I don't know why you think Bernie's plans are somehow immune to Trump's lying.  Bernie could recite his thousand point plan on stage, and Trump will just say his will be better and cost the American public less and oh by the way look at failed Socialist countries A, B, and C for why Bernie is nuts.  Then Bernie will try to combat Trump with facts and Trump will laugh and call him Crazy Bernie and make some joke about his heart attack and we are no better off.

And you keep mocking emotions, but emotions can win elections.  It's what got Obama elected.  It's what got Trump elected.  And when the truth no longer matters, it's the smart play.

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

And you keep mocking emotions, but emotions can win elections.  It's what got Obama elected.  It's what got Trump elected.  And when the truth no longer matters, it's the smart play.

Fuck, man--that's all that wins elections.  Love.  Hate.  Fear.  Hope.  That is entirely what elections are about.

[Brisketexan 105,142]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

Fuck, man--that's all that wins elections.  Love.  Hate.  Fear.  Hope.  That is entirely what elections are about.

Lust.

 

Okay, I mean, it couldn't carry the day then.  But still, all of our basest instincts are in play.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

I apologize for getting heated. I see 2016 replaying basically like a player piano and it's frustrating because I hate this president and I want ... I won't say because the Secret Service is watching ... I want him to lose.

And it makes me angry. I will try to #DoBetter

Some history:

In 2008, Barack Obama won in a landslide.
In 2010, The Republicans curb stomped Democrats nationwide (Republicans picked up 63 House seats and gained 6 Senate seats)
In 2012, Barack Obama won re-election in a landslide.

The 2010 mid-terms saw the Republicans pick up 63 House seats.

In 2016, Trump won a close contest.
In 2018, The Democrats did very well nationwide. (Democrats picked up 26 House seats and lost 2 Senate seats)

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I don't know why you think Bernie's plans are somehow immune to Trump's lying.

They're not. He'll lie about Bernie and call him a Commie and gay or whatever.

But Bernie generates his own positivity, hope, and enthusiasm. People love Bernie for Bernie. He has a vision that he can sell and that vision is distinct from everyone else and it's marketable. People work their asses off for Bernie.

I don't think Bernie would be a sure thing, but he's got a product to offer. He wants to go to the voters and say, "I will give you X, Y, and Z if you vote for me."

Quote

And you keep mocking emotions, but emotions can win elections.  It's what got Obama elected.  It's what got Trump elected.  And when the truth no longer matters, it's the smart play.

You're right.

What emotions does Biden inspire? Be honest.

Nothing. Jack shit. No one here gave a damn about Biden before it was obvious he was going to make Bernie Bros cry, and no one here likes him even now.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

12 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I don't know why you think Bernie's plans are somehow immune to Trump's lying.  Bernie could recite his thousand point plan on stage, and Trump will just say his will be better and cost the American public less and oh by the way look at failed Socialist countries A, B, and C for why Bernie is nuts.  Then Bernie will try to combat Trump with facts and Trump will laugh and call him Crazy Bernie and make some joke about his heart attack and we are no better off.

he started attacking socialism during the sotu.

impeachment was about biden.  sotu was about bernie.  that wasn't a coincidence.

[Chuckie Finster 22,694]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What emotions does Biden inspire? Be honest.

Nothing. Jack shit. No one here gave a damn about Biden before it was obvious he was going to make Bernie Bros cry, and no one here likes him even now.

I disagree.  He may not make YOU feel anything, but there's a reason the Medal of Freedom video made people tear up.  There's a reason the memes with Obama went viral.  There's a reason pictures of him sitting at a Whataburger make the rounds on social media.  He's authentic, or at least can make people think he is.  He seems like a real human being.  And that shouldn't matter, but it does.  Especially when you look across the ticket.
 

And I know we are all cynical here online, but moments like the one below will make a difference and they are something that the other establishment candidates (Hillary, Gore, Kerry) that Biden is being compared to were wholly incapable of producing.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I apologize for getting heated. I see 2016 replaying basically like a player piano and it's frustrating because I hate this president and I want ... I won't say because the Secret Service is watching ... I want him to lose.

And it makes me angry. I will try to #DoBetter

Some history:

In 2008, Barack Obama won in a landslide.
In 2010, The Republicans curb stomped Democrats nationwide (Republicans picked up 63 House seats and gained 6 Senate seats)
In 2012, Barack Obama won re-election in a landslide.

The 2010 mid-terms saw the Republicans pick up 63 House seats.

In 2016, Trump won a close contest.
In 2018, The Democrats did very well nationwide. (Democrats picked up 26 House seats and lost 2 Senate seats)

They're not. He'll lie about Bernie and call him a Commie and gay or whatever.

But Bernie generates his own positivity, hope, and enthusiasm. People love Bernie for Bernie. He has a vision that he can sell and that vision is distinct from everyone else and it's marketable. People work their asses off for Bernie.

I don't think Bernie would be a sure thing, but he's got a product to offer. He wants to go to the voters and say, "I will give you X, Y, and Z if you vote for me."

You're right.

What emotions does Biden inspire? Be honest.

Nothing. Jack shit. No one here gave a damn about Biden before it was obvious he was going to make Bernie Bros cry, and no one here likes him even now.

That's some history, I suppose.  But your sample size is a little low.

Let me give you another one to go by: 

1976: Jimmy Carter wins election narrowly.

1978: Republicans win 15 House seats (remarkably, on a -8.9% popular-vote margin)

1980: Reagan wins in a landslide.

Really--like 2010, that's really apropos of nothing.  But it does reflect that every election is different.  This election will be different.  How it'll turn out--we shall see.

 

 

 

As to the emotions that Biden invokes, I think you give him short shrift.  How about nostalgia?  Maybe hope.  Maybe admiration.  Maybe respect.  Maybe sympathy.

But those are the positive emotions.  And you and I both know that the negative emotions are what will really drive turnout.  What negative emotions does Biden inspire?  Does anybody really hate Joe Biden?  I mean, plenty of MAGAts hate all Democrats.  But does anybody especially hate Joe Biden in the way people especially hate, say, Hillary Clinton?  

I don't think so.

What about fear?  Is anybody really afraid about what a Biden presidency might bring?  Or anger?  Is anybody really angry at Biden for anything?

Contrast that with Trump.  Hate?  Yep.  Fear?  Oh, yeah.  Are the Democrats going to have turnout problems?  I don't think so.

[Bruh Man 3,160]

Serious question - what keeps us from just having one day of primary voting (with ranked choice other than being scared to change)? The rolling primaries have always been flawed to me, just from the fact you get forced into certain choices the later your state votes. But this chicken and egg thing that happened this year - black voters voting for who they think white people will vote for, therefore signaling to white people to vote for the candidate black voters "support"...like wtf? Just a very stupid way to find a candidate

Would it just be too much chaos to have one day where clearly no delegate majority could be amassed in a field of 4-8 candidates?

Any insight would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm missing the logic behind why they spread them out.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

42 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Trumpkins and Bernie Bros are 2 sides of the same coin.

[Rougarou 594]

8 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I disagree.  He may not make YOU feel anything, bhere's a reason the Medal of Freedom video made people tear up.  There's a reason the memes with Obama went viral.  There's a reason pictures of him sitting at a Whataburger make the rounds on social media.  He's authentic, or at least can make people think he is.  He seems like a real human being.  And that shouldn't matter, but it does.  Especially when you look across the ticket.
 

And I know we are all cynical here online, but moments like the one below will make a difference and they are something that the other establishment candidates (Hillary, Gore, Kerry) that Biden is being compared to were wholly incapable of producing.

 

Those are great. Thanks for sharing. 

[babysdaddy 2,724]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What emotions does Biden inspire? Be honest.

Nothing. Jack shit. No one here gave a damn about Biden before it was obvious he was going to make Bernie Bros cry, and no one here likes him even now.

You're exactly right.  No (negative or positive) emotion is connected.  With Bernie, there is some negative whether you agree or not.  With Trump there is a tsunami of negative.  Not Trump (and no hardcore negative connotation like, say, socialism) should be enough to win the day.

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

3 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Serious question - what keeps us from just having one day of primary voting (with ranked choice other than being scared to change)? The rolling primaries have always been flawed to me, just from the fact you get forced into certain choices the later your state votes. But this chicken and egg thing that happened this year - black voters voting for who they think white people will vote for, therefore signaling to white people to vote for the candidate black voters "support"...like wtf? Just a very stupid way to find a candidate

Would it just be too much chaos to have one day where clearly no delegate majority could be amassed in a field of 4-8 candidates?

Any insight would be appreciated. I'm sure I'm missing the logic behind why they spread them out.

I’m with you. One big primary day. We do it for the general election, so why not primaries? 

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

 

['stache 21,815]

1 hour ago, Chooky said:

One of the aspects of Biden that's unnerving is that he's confidently dumb, like Trump, and he seems to have created an insular circle of people who won't or can't tell him how clumsy he is and how easy it is to avoid.  Like, "hey, Joe, if you lack any level of common knowledge on a particular issue, avoid that issue.  Don't initiate it.  For instance, if you don't know the Declaration of Independence, don't announce that you will now recite the Declaration knowing that you are about to fail to do that."  

Biden's blemish when he began his campaign was his age.  "Is he too old and out of touch with the populist, millennial wave that's surging on the left?"  And yet several months later not a single person in his camp had enough sway to tell him that "NO MALARKEY" was a comedic disaster with layers of irony for a campaign slogan.  Joe Biden has probably inadvertently created that environment for himself because he's defensive and spoiled.  He's very minimal on political talent and it appears that dissent or confronting him on his weaknesses is a one way ticket out of his staff.  You don't tell Joe.  Joe tells you.  Women like to be fondled and caressed in casual conversation while their husband stands right next to them.  FACT!  Men like it even more.  FACT!   

I'm not buying this, at all. I'm not seeing how he is "dumb' and especially in comparison to Trump. Biden is prone to mush-mouth and foot-in-mouth, but I've never taken that he is not at least informed on important issues and understands them, even if he struggles from time to time to convey his thoughts as clearly as other politicians. And again, you are making a direct comparison to Trump. I am certain he would never ask a CDC doctor if a flu shot could prevent infection from a completely different virus, that being only the most recent of hundreds of blatantly stupid things trump has said while in office and during his campaigns. Biden won't make up lies from thin air the way trump does. And he won't bust out with 3rd grade insults dozens of times a day, which is truly an indication of mental weakness and a void of any intellect whatsoever. Biden clearly is not an intellectual the way Obama was, or at least how he came off, but to say he's "dumb" and especially in the same way as trump, is something I just don't get. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by 'stache

['stache 21,815]

42 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I disagree.  He may not make YOU feel anything, but there's a reason the Medal of Freedom video made people tear up.  There's a reason the memes with Obama went viral.  There's a reason pictures of him sitting at a Whataburger make the rounds on social media.  He's authentic, or at least can make people think he is.  He seems like a real human being.  And that shouldn't matter, but it does.  Especially when you look across the ticket.
 

And I know we are all cynical here online, but moments like the one below will make a difference and they are something that the other establishment candidates (Hillary, Gore, Kerry) that Biden is being compared to were wholly incapable of producing.

 

Yup. To say he lacks charm or charisma is just plain wrong. He may be bland policy-wise from those who want a more progressive agenda, but personality-wise, he can evoke emotions and he is just plain likable. Hillary lacked that entirely. If Biden hadn't lost his son towards the end of his Vice-Presidency, I can almost assure you we could have avoided the orange menace. He would have mopped the floor with trump in 2016. He's less likely to do so now, but I am feeling little bits of confidence that he can win and maybe even blow trump out, which would be ideal. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by 'stache

[bad_teammate 13,195]

39 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I disagree.  He may not make YOU feel anything, but there's a reason the Medal of Freedom video made people tear up.

Over the course of the last year, what has your opinion and impression of Joe Biden been?

What was it before you had a vested interesting in defending him?

33 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

As to the emotions that Biden invokes, I think you give him short shrift.  How about nostalgia?  Maybe hope.  Maybe admiration.  Maybe respect.  Maybe sympathy.

That's a lot of "maybe".

Quote

But those are the positive emotions.  And you and I both know that the negative emotions are what will really drive turnout.  What negative emotions does Biden inspire?  Does anybody really hate Joe Biden?  I mean, plenty of MAGAts hate all Democrats.  But does anybody especially hate Joe Biden in the way people especially hate, say, Hillary Clinton?  

I don't think so.

What about fear?  Is anybody really afraid about what a Biden presidency might bring?  Or anger?  Is anybody really angry at Biden for anything?

Contrast that with Trump.  Hate?  Yep.  Fear?  Oh, yeah.  Are the Democrats going to have turnout problems?  I don't think so.

Oh there is ZERO doubt that Biden doesn't elicit the rage that Hillary does, but that wasn't as clear then as it was today. Trump was 10 points more net unfavorable with voters than Hillary was by November and there was a TON of forced enthusiasm on the Hillary side that masked how much antipathy really existed for her.

I don't think Biden is hopeless, I just don't think it's obvious. It's a fight.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

And if we're accepting that online fans and televised surrogate toxicity actually matter and influence the vote, we might see tremendously less unity behind Biden from the left than we did behind Clinton (which was within historical norms).

A "ton" of Biden supporters were using racist attacks against a Bernie campaign surrogate who was accurately quoting MLK.

A ton.

I have been concern trolled to hell and back regarding toxic Bernie Bros for over a year. Can anyone who has done that try to make sense of what is happening right now with the constant and vicious racism directed at Sanders and his campaign and explain what that will mean for #unity moving forward?

[G650 14,256]

Latest Morning Consult poll a monster for Biden.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Plenty of married dudes on here who won't get laid ever again if they don't have a post or two of remorse to read out loud to the wife.

j/k 

not really

Yep. My wife voted for Liz in the Texas primary and she’s the smartest and most beautiful person I’ve ever met.

Right honey? 

[bad_teammate 13,195]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

Latest Morning Consult poll a monster for Biden.

Wait... is -16 bad for Bernie?

Are you sure this isn't like golf scoring?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

Latest Morning Consult poll a monster for Biden.

Link? 

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Link? 

https://morningconsult.com/2020/03/06/democratic-primary-polling-joe-biden-bernie-sanders/

[Tuco 5,076]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't think Biden is hopeless, I just don't think it's obvious. It's a fight.

Either one (Bernie or Biden) would be a fight.  I personally though Bernie was one that had a better shot, but since 2016, it's become painfully clear that I don't really understand my fellow Americans that well, so I make that estimation with a ton of uncertainty. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Well that’s pretty much it then. Bernie should press forward anyway though to influence the agenda at the convention and get nominated eventually as the secretary of labor. He will lose at the convention then endorse Biden at a convention speech. 

[Mapache 1,117]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I disagree.  He may not make YOU feel anything, but there's a reason the Medal of Freedom video made people tear up.  There's a reason the memes with Obama went viral.  There's a reason pictures of him sitting at a Whataburger make the rounds on social media.  He's authentic, or at least can make people think he is.  He seems like a real human being.  And that shouldn't matter, but it does.  Especially when you look across the ticket.
 

And I know we are all cynical here online, but moments like the one below will make a difference and they are something that the other establishment candidates (Hillary, Gore, Kerry) that Biden is being compared to were wholly incapable of producing.

 

A huge contrast to the classless, narcissistic, compulsive lying, boorish asshole currently in office 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Mapache

[Chad Fuck 17,682]

WTF is this crazy person's angle?  Does she want the perpetually be the face of Dems for Fox viewers so team maga has some non-blonde fap material?

Quote

Tulsi Gabbard is still running for president

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/politics/tulsi-gabbard-still-running/index.html

[bad_teammate 13,195]

11 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well that’s pretty much it then. Bernie should press forward anyway though to influence the agenda at the convention and get nominated eventually as the secretary of labor. He will lose at the convention then endorse Biden at a convention speech. 

Bernie will shoot his shot for the next month or so and then, if this goes the way it looks like it's going to go, he'll do exactly what you're saying here.

And this is good. Biden needs to be challenged and worked and bullied and harassed by someone who is ultimately on his side. Our candidate in 2016 wasn't tested and we shouldn't repeat that just because we're desperate to pretend everything is over as so many want to do.

It's self-serving of me, but I really think that if Biden took on M4A towards the end of this thing it would be profoundly unifying.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Inspiring words from the frontrunner. 

“And so I was saying that, and what they turned around and said, Joe Biden said, in effect, they said, that Joe Biden said that what he was told, that what, that what the white supremacists argue, that we have no problem, that our, our, our basic English jurisprudential system is not the problem.

The problem is those countries like Africa and Asia and those places, they’re the reason why we have all these problems.

So they turn it around to make it sound like that, and by the way, the title of the article is, was, is the Washington Post ‘The Deceptively (indecipherable) of Joe Biden Singles, Signals What Is Coming’ and that is that’s a whole bunch of lies.

The generic point I’m making here is that, what has happened is that, I know we’re going to get in to, whomever the nominee is of the Democratic Party, is going to have a plethora of lies told about him or her, and misrepresentations and this went on the internet, this edited article, it got retweeted by some press people and then they realized it was edited to make it look like something not… white supremacists, see, Biden’s acknowledging that the problem here is that that all those folks, all those minority folks are the problem.

And so, in essence. And so they corrected, they corrected. You’re going to see a lot more of it. You’re going to see a lot more of not only my statements being taken out of context, and lied about, or altered, you’re going to see whomever the Democratic nominee is because that’s how this guy operates.

Now. Whether or not I can win?”

 

Thanks neverbernie bros!

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

People will be better informed and have better political takes if they delete their twitter account

[washparkhorn 9,939]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

People will be better informed and have better political takes if they delete their twitter account

Straight out of 1984. Congrats!

[G650 14,256]

I'm curious who these Never Bernie Bros are.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

At least Brazille has the balls to admit her allegiance:

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,941]

2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

 

This was a pretty neat moment between Pete and Joe. 

If Biden wins the nomination and presidency, Buttigieg will have a job in the administration if he wants it. Peteheads are all speculating on what would be best (VP, Sec. of State/Defense, VA, etc.) Those jobs would obviously be desired if he wants to run for President again in the future. 

But the job where he'd be most useful IMO would be Chief of Staff. Would love to see him in charge of building a team and getting some new blood in the White House. And I think he'd be a great advisor. 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Youth vote is up, by the way. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20,941]

Good. 

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Austerity for the poor.

Welfare for the wealthy and corporations.

God bless the USA.

 

 

[Foosters 17,856]

4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Austerity for the poor.

Welfare for the wealthy and corporations.

God bless the USA.

 

 

aka the Biden approach.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Reminder for all who support the Democratic Party - polling is lagging. I know of no polls where the final three contestants are matched up - yet. And the poliing in this cycle has been erratic to say the least - with significant swings. The next debate will be telling. Biden will need to be on top of his game. Sanders will need to make his best case. And if Gabbard is there, well - it could be dynamic. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by washparkhorn

[henrygandorf 29,191]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Reminder for all who support the Democratic Party - polling is lagging. I know of no polls where the final three contestants are matched up - yet. And the poliing in this cycle has been erratic to say the least - with significant swings. The next debate will be telling. Biden will need to be on top of his game. Sanders will need to make his best case. And if Gabbard is there, well - it could be dynamic. 

is there some sort of qualification threshold?  "hasn't quite officially dropped out yet" shouldn't be the only bar to clear for her here.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

is there some sort of qualification threshold?  "hasn't quite officially dropped out yet" shouldn't be the only bar to clear for her here.

She qualified with her one delegate based on the rules in place for Super Tuesday. The Democratic Party has indicated it may introduce a new qualification standard. 

Strike that - New qualification rule announced eliminates Tulsi.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/486348-new-standards-eliminate-tulsi-gabbard-from-next-democratic-debate

Quote

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) did not meet the single qualifying factor: earning at least 20 percent of the delegates awarded as of March 15.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by washparkhorn

['stache 21,815]

She can add it to her lawsuit against Hillary Clinton.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Whimsical take:

And people of color. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Hank Kingsley 20,941]

Looking forward to Tulsi complaining about debate qualifications. 

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

some rough complexion issues.

[G650 14,256]

13 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Reminder for all who support the Democratic Party - polling is lagging. I know of no polls where the final three contestants are matched up - yet. And the poliing in this cycle has been erratic to say the least - with significant swings. The next debate will be telling. Biden will need to be on top of his game. Sanders will need to make his best case. And if Gabbard is there, well - it could be dynamic. 

The Morning Consult poll is from yesterday

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Seriously - we need Secret Service protection for Sanders and Biden:

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Given the 2018 results and that the biggest issue most common amongst voters was healthcare- no one with a brain is worried about taking on Trump on the issue. 

Unfortunately Biden has no brain. 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Morning Consult had Sanders winning SC by 2%. 

Heading into South Carolina, Sanders had taken a slim lead with black Democratic primary voters in

@MorningConsult

polling.

Edited March 6, 2020 by washparkhorn