2020 Democratic Nominee

[6th Street 6692]

Cory Booker just endorsed Biden. #anotherone

 

[bad_teammate 13550]

I don't know about Bloomberg at the World Bank.  I think I would prefer a banker.  But I like Dimon at Treasury.  
Those are jobs at which we need people who know what they're doing as we go into a recession.  Say what you will about them as people, but Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner saved the world in 2008.  We're going to need people like that who know what the fuck they're doing.

This is always the rationalization. Always.

[Biff Tannen 46170]

Well this thread went fuckin' ape shit overnight.

[G650 14442]

 

[Storm the Field 5367]

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

. . . I like Dimon at Treasury.  

. . . Those are jobs at which we need people who know what they're doing as we go into a recession.  Say what you will about them as people, but Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner saved the world in 2008.  We're going to need people like that who know what the fuck they're doing.

The capitulation of the Democratic Party in living color.

Socialism for the Banks! 

 

[bad_teammate 13550]

Perpetuation more than capitulation.

But yes, socializing risk for the capital class and privatizing the gains for them, as well. That's all we'll ever get with Joe.

Getting Bernie elected was like trying to hit a headshot on a moving target. We'll just have go for body shots now.

This is the war, after all.

To wit...

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

But on the other hand, isn't Sanders more about advancing the agenda than advancing his own candidacy?  And for that reason, I could see him staying in to the Convention, even knowing that he has no chance of getting the actual nomination.

This is absolutely what he should do.

He needs to batter Biden on the issues until either Biden capitulates and adopts Bernie's platform (or goes even further) or the final primary vote is cast.

[BradInATX 9208]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Perpetuation more than capitulation.

But yes, socializing risk for the capital class and privatizing the gains for them, as well. That's all we'll ever get with Joe.

Getting Bernie elected was like trying to hit a headshot on a moving target. We'll just have go for body shots now.

This is the war, after all.

To wit...

This is absolutely what he should do.

He needs to batter Biden on the issues until either Biden capitulates and adopts Bernie's platform (or goes even further) or the final primary vote is cast.

What do you think of when you say "we have to go for body shots now"?

Incremental change? Slipping one or two legislators in until you have enough to enact real change?

Legitimately asking.

[Hank Kingsley 21790]

Don't think these criticisms of Biden from Bernie World will move the needle at all. 

Joe-mentum has very little do with Joe Biden or his policies.  

 

[6th Street 6692]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

.He needs to batter Biden on the issues until either Biden capitulates and adopts Bernie's platform (or goes even further) or the final primary vote is cast.

No need for Biden to capitulate on issues that don't represent the majority of his constituents. 

[hobbes2702 13488]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Actually, not really.  I don't think anybody really expected Sanders to do well in either of those two states.  That they're noncompetitive is no surprise.

Here's my question for you: if Sanders doesn't win any states tomorrow--i.e., he loses in Michigan and Washington--does he drop out?  I can see both arguments.  On the one hand, if he loses in those states, he has no path to the nomination.  And he's liable to get really embarrassed the following week in Florida.

But on the other hand, isn't Sanders more about advancing the agenda than advancing his own candidacy?  And for that reason, I could see him staying in to the Convention, even knowing that he has no chance of getting the actual nomination.

What say you?

I don't know about Bloomberg at the World Bank.  I think I would prefer a banker.  But I like Dimon at Treasury.  

Those are jobs at which we need people who know what they're doing as we go into a recession.  Say what you will about them as people, but Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner saved the world in 2008.  We're going to need people like that who know what the fuck they're doing.

They had to “save the world” because they fucked the economy while in the private sector and then ignored all the signs of major problems in the economy.

Edited March 9, 2020 by hobbes2702

[washparkhorn 9973]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

They had to “save the world” because they fucked the economy while in the private sector and then ignored all the sounds of major problems in the economy.

Yep. And then they did it again by propping up another asset bubble, which is quickly deflating and threatens the world's economy once again. 

Let's give them all the socialism they need and put them in charge of the Treasury. 

What a fucking scam.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Because there was no overwhelming 50%+ winner not named Joe Biden in the two early states, Biden was able to hold his southern black voter firewall and this is essentially what clinched it for him. 

Perhaps without all the role player candidates like Pete and Amy dividing up the vote in Iowa/NH, a Bernie or Warren could have won big and persuaded enough southern black voters that Biden wasn’t the guy but it would have been a heavy lift regardless.  The mercenary candidates that never had a long game strategy or any viability with black voters were key in this thing. 

Bernie’s strategy of trying to get the nomination with 35% of the vote was a huge vulnerability he never contingency planned and the moderate coalition exploited beautifully in the run up to Super Tuesday.  
 

The process is shit when all you need is to add a few candidates to the field with some billionaires dumping cash in television commercials to prevent a threat candidate like Warren/Sanders from succeeding.  Obvious I think it was foolish for Bernie to even run because he couldn’t expand his base but whatever, Bernie gonna Bernie.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because there was no overwhelming 50%+ winner not named Joe Biden in the two early states, Biden was able to hold his southern black voter firewall and this is essentially what clinched it for him. 

Perhaps without all the role player candidates like Pete and Amy dividing up the vote in Iowa/NH, a Bernie or Warren could have won big and persuaded enough southern black voters that Biden wasn’t the guy but it would have been a heavy lift regardless.  The mercenary candidates that never had a long game strategy or any viability with black voters were key in this thing. 

Bernie’s strategy of trying to get the nomination with 35% of the vote was a huge vulnerability he never contingency planned and the moderate coalition exploited beautifully in the run up to Super Tuesday.  
 

The process is shit when all you need is to add a few candidates to the field with some billionaires dumping cash in television commercials to prevent a threat candidate like Warren/Sanders from succeeding.  Obvious I think it was foolish for Bernie to even run because he couldn’t expand his base but whatever, Bernie gonna Bernie.

If this was just a two or three person race throughout the process instead of 5+ then Biden might not have pulled it off. 

[washparkhorn 9973]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because there was no overwhelming 50%+ winner not named Joe Biden in the two early states, Biden was able to hold his southern black voter firewall and this is essentially what clinched it for him. 

Perhaps without all the role player candidates like Pete and Amy dividing up the vote in Iowa/NH, a Bernie or Warren could have won big and persuaded enough southern black voters that Biden wasn’t the guy but it would have been a heavy lift regardless.  The mercenary candidates that never had a long game strategy or any viability with black voters were key in this thing. 

Bernie’s strategy of trying to get the nomination with 35% of the vote was a huge vulnerability he never contingency planned and the moderate coalition exploited beautifully in the run up to Super Tuesday.  
 

The process is shit when all you need is to add a few candidates to the field with some billionaires dumping cash in television commercials to prevent a threat candidate like Warren/Sanders from succeeding.  Obvious I think it was foolish for Bernie to even run because he couldn’t expand his base but whatever, Bernie gonna Bernie.

For progressive Warren voters it comes down to one simple question - do they trust the Biden wing of the Democratic Party on the economy or the Warren/Sanders wing, as we head into what looks like another 2007-2008 Financial Crisis. 

And, is she still the Elizabeth Warren of 2008 or has she capitulated. 

This will be her legacy. 

[Hiphopopotamos 21191]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

For progressive Warren voters it comes down to one simple question - do they trust the Biden wing of the Democratic Party on the economy or the Warren/Sanders wing, as we head into what looks like another 2007-2008 Financial Crisis. 

And, is she still the Elizabeth Warren of 2008 or has she capitulated. 

This will be her legacy. 

Politics is the art of compromise and building coalitions. Warren gets this and it was the thesis of her campaign to bridge the divide between the two factions in the primary.  That’s still her goal I’d imagine, to produce progressive legislative victories by bringing more mainstream democrats on board.

She’s not going to bend the knee to Bernie b/c there’s no reason to throw all her political capital away on a dead man walking. 

[Cheeseweasel 26440]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Warren gets this

Except she didn't.

[Red Five 41750]

30 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Except she didn't.

She admitted she was wrong to think there was room for her to win with the strategy but she made progress in persuading non-leftist democrats to warm up to her policy ideas.  Her supporters were split right down the middle as to which side they would defect to once she exited the race and she popularized her big ideas of a anti-corruption legislation, wealth tax, and advanced the cause for single payer healthcare among the electorate. 

Also, she kinda made it clear that she’s not to be fucked with after what she did to Bloomberg.

The progressive movement is bigger than any one person or election and that was my takeaway from her campaign. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/09/polls-joe-biden-holds-lead-over-bernie-sanders-michigan-primaries/4994142002/
 

The main reason I’m posting this article is because of the name of the pollster quoted in it. LOL. 

[Zonahorn 8079]

Game over

 

[Chuckie Finster 23084]

6 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Game over

 

Yeah but what do Pennsylvania and Michigan citizens know about what it takes to be elected in the midwest?

Edited March 9, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[mdmost 44065]

I think Bernie stays in until New York in April.

[gmr548 16702]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

Yeah but what do Pennsylvania and Michigan citizens know about what it takes to be elected in the midwest?

Polls significantly underestimated Sanders in Wisconsin and even more so in Michigan vs Clinton in 2016, both of which he won.

I don't expect lightning to strike twice there given that he is not cleaning up with uneducated whites like he did vs Hillary, as well as the fact that the Democratic primary has attracted a lot of suburban moderates than weren't necessarily involved last time. Still, I'd let it play out.

[henrygandorf 29227]

7 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Polls significantly underestimated Sanders in Wisconsin and even more so in Michigan vs Clinton in 2016, both of which he won.

I don't expect lightning to strike twice there given that he is not cleaning up with uneducated whites like he did vs Hillary, as well as the fact that the Democratic primary has attracted a lot of suburban moderates than weren't necessarily involved last time. Still, I'd let it play out.

a valuable lesson has been learned in the last 4 years - it's easier to do well when you're running against hillary clinton.

[Hank Kingsley 21790]

9 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I think Bernie stays in until New York in April.

If the trend lines for Biden doing well tomorrow and next week hold up, this would be a terrible mistake. 

[6th Street 6692]

11 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Polls significantly underestimated Sanders in Wisconsin and even more so in Michigan vs Clinton in 2016, both of which he won.

I don't expect lightning to strike twice there given that he is not cleaning up with uneducated whites like he did vs Hillary, as well as the fact that the Democratic primary has attracted a lot of suburban moderates than weren't necessarily involved last time. Still, I'd let it play out.

He's referring to Klobuchar's constant refrain on the campaign trail bro

[mdmost 44065]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If the trend lines for Biden doing well tomorrow and next week hold up, this would be a terrible mistake. 

I think he'll win some more states. Washington, Iadho and North Dakota should probably go to him. He's not winning the significant ones but I think he'll wait till Biden puts it more out of reach in April. Maybe he holds out enough to get some of his initiatives to be part of the convention before he folds. But if he pulls off some wins like Illinois, he could stay in a lot longer. 

[Tuco 5094]

35 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Polls significantly underestimated Sanders in Wisconsin and even more so in Michigan vs Clinton in 2016, both of which he won.

I don't expect lightning to strike twice there given that he is not cleaning up with uneducated whites like he did vs Hillary, as well as the fact that the Democratic primary has attracted a lot of suburban moderates than weren't necessarily involved last time. Still, I'd let it play out.

Biden's biggest vulnerability right now is if people think he's already won the primary.  His momentum coming out of SuperTuesday was great for consolidating a broad base of support, but he needs that support to actually show up to the polls. And it's not the most enthusiastic of support. 

[Pig Bellmont 8887]

51 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Game over

 

If this reflects actual votes and delegate splits tomorrow, I don’t see how Bernie has a path to the nomination. 

[washparkhorn 9973]

Joe will need to have a good debate before this is over. 

[kevwun 16442]

Keep on trolling, washparkhorn

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

 

[henrygandorf 29227]

2 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Joe will need to have a good debate before this is over. 

or else what?

[Pig Bellmont 8887]

2 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Joe will need to have a good debate before this is over. 

He already has. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/898179/biden-debate-needed
 

I should take my own advice and stop responding to washbothorn but I can’t help myself 

[6th Street 6692]

10 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Joe will need to have a good debate before this is over. 

Lol nobody is watching these debates anymore 

[bad_teammate 13550]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

What do you think of when you say "we have to go for body shots now"?

Incremental change? Slipping one or two legislators in until you have enough to enact real change?

Legitimately asking.

Yes, the overall war of attrition in terms of electoral politics is going to continue and be necessary.

Outside of the world of electoral politics, which is going to probably be more important, we need to keep pushing for things like strikes and work-stopping demonstrations. A general strike would be ideal.

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

She’s not going to bend the knee to Bernie b/c there’s no reason to throw all her political capital away on a dead man walking. 

What knee needs to be bent? What principles does she have that she would have to sacrifice to Bernie? Serious question, Hugo, in what way would she have to capitulate ethically, morally, or policy-wise to have joined the left-progressive part of the presidential race?

[WBT 20985]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

a valuable lesson has been learned in the last 4 years - it's easier to do well when you're running against hillary clinton.

A lesson that will be learned again in November 

[Pasken 1312]

Virus fears could keep older turnout down tomorrow.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What knee needs to be bent? What principles does she have that she would have to sacrifice to Bernie? Serious question, Hugo, in what way would she have to capitulate ethically, morally, or policy-wise to have joined the left-progressive part of the presidential race?

I dunno dude, you’d think one of the most influential democrats would be completely on board with joining an unsuccessful insurgency campaign against the Democratic Party.

[Pancho 46332]

 

[bad_teammate 13550]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I dunno dude, you’d think one of the most influential democrats would be completely on board with joining an unsuccessful insurgency campaign against the Democratic Party.

Oh I get that she's powerfully motivated by careerism and hurt feelings, I understand that.

You used the phrase "bend the knee" which indicates some kind of compromise of values to a dominant power. I was simply asking which values Warren would be compromising in order to endorse Bernie.

I don't care if she endorses Bernie or not. It would've been a big deal a week ago when the avalanche started for Biden, but the time for that has long since passed. I simply want to know what you mean by "bend the knee".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Oh I get that she's powerfully motivated by careerism and hurt feelings, I understand that.

You used the phrase "bend the knee" which indicates some kind of compromise of values to a dominant power. I was simply asking which values Warren would be compromising in order to endorse Bernie.

I don't care if she endorses Bernie or not. It would've been a big deal a week ago when the avalanche started for Biden, but the time for that has long since passed. I simply want to know what you mean by "bend the knee".

Or maybe her priority is to advance her agenda which reflects her values. Apparently she made judgement call that endorsing Bernie would be counterproductive to getting anything she wants. This involves Bernie being not as perfect as you think so I can see why that might be hard for you to comprehend.

 There’s a reason she does a lot of down ballot work for democrats too.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[bad_teammate 13550]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Or maybe her priority is to advance her agenda which reflects her values. Apparently she made judgement call that endorsing Bernie would be counterproductive to getting anything she wants.

Any idea on what she's been doing since 3/3 that is advancing an agenda which reflects her values? This is... extremely vague.

Quote

 There’s a reason she does a lot of down ballot work for democrats too.

OK cool so she's been too busy doing work for downballot Dems in the last week to help advance the most important race going right now for the overall left-progressive agenda?

Who has she been busy doing work for?

[bad_teammate 13550]

[bad_teammate 13550]

Oh shit another surprise tonight!

Joe's collecting all the infinity stones!!

 

[DanTheHorn 5091]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Any idea on what she's been doing since 3/3 that is advancing an agenda which reflects her values? This is... extremely vague.

OK cool so she's been too busy doing work for downballot Dems in the last week to help advance the most important race going right now for the overall left-progressive agenda?

Who has she been busy doing work for?

I don’t know but she doesn’t owe Bernie shit, that’s for sure.  Bernie is running a revolution campaign.  She’s more of a reformer so I could see why getting behind a dying socialist career politician that’s not a democrat could be perceived as a political liability. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Chuckie Finster 23084]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Oh shit another surprise tonight!

Joe's collecting all the infinity stones!!

 

That had to be one hell of a meeting if it lasted 4 and a half years.