2020 Democratic Nominee

[Bateshorn 9,928]

I'll use an analogy that's just crass enough for this site:

Since 2016, Bernie's wingman has been yelling about how much he fucks. He's a pipelaying lothario of the first order. In fact, he's such a Casanova, the party changed the music and moodlighting for him after 2016 to make it easier for him to pick up all the ladies.

We all showed up at the bar at 6 pm, because we wanted to get after it. 

It's now 10 pm, and after striking out a couple of times, Diamond Joe is in a back booth in a pair of jeans that looks like the cover of Sticky Fingers with a bunch of hotties, who are constantly pulling him into the woman's bathroom. Bernie is standing in the middle of the room talking about his Canadian girlfriend like a limp dick.  People are starting to avoid him, because he's kinda beginning to look like a loser, except his wingman, whose still hollering at the top of his lungs.

Elections can be cruel to a candidate's supporters.  To invest so much in one human is a recipe for disaster.  But at some point, Bernie needs to start fucking at the polls.  He has to actually win the affection of the people who vote, as opposed to the slice of society that talks about his game on twitter. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Hiphopopotamos 20,876]

 

[Hiphopopotamos 20,876]

 

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Liberals right now are more excited about Joe threatening to fight a factory worker than they were about ANTIFA threatening to fight literal Nazis.

No war but class war.

[Hiphopopotamos 20,876]

Feel like this one is for b_t

 

 

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

7 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Trump and his team are scared shitless. Trump is an impeached president because he tried to kneecap Biden. The right and trump have been defending Bernie. Joe Biden is a terrible candidate for Trump and those around trump know it. 

Biden + recession + pandemic mismanagement + 2019 Ukraine + 2016 Russian collusion + whatever other bombs drop (Saudi transcripts, Deutsche bank, tax returns, irs whistleblower) could all lead to flipping the Senate. 

That is terribly  important. Removing roadblock Mitch has to happen before any meaningful legislation will pass. 

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Liberals right now are more excited about Joe threatening to fight a factory worker than they were about ANTIFA threatening to fight literal Nazis.

No war but class war.

No.  That guy was just being a Trump mouthpiece.  Biden just told a Trumpkin - and by association, Trump -  he was full of shit.  And he was right.  That's a preview of the debates, if Trump shows.  That's why liberals are excited. 

Get over yourself and your, "The only liberal is a Bernie liberal" schtick.  It's exhausting.

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Liberals right now are more excited about Joe threatening to fight a factory worker than they were about ANTIFA threatening to fight literal Nazis.

No war but class war.

First sharing MAGA tweets and then condemning liberals with made up support for Antifa- it’s wild how similar your talking points are to Breitbart commenters

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Feel like this one is for b_t

 

 

That was spot on.

If you are anywhere left of trump and you don’t vote for Biden, you have been duped!!

That guy needs to start opening up for Bernie’s speeches. 

[bad_teammate 13,221]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Feel like this one is for b_t

Because it's a perfect indication of how stupid mass media pundits are and I love to laugh at them? I appreciate that.

He's a pundit on a nice pretty MSNBC set being interviewed by a millionaire paid by billionaires on his little Macbook railing against the "privilege" of the most diverse coalition of voters going. People who desperately need healthcare. People who desperately need good-paying jobs and debt relief and reliable housing.

All on a network and movement just filling its own pants with semen because they're winning the support of wealthy suburbanites who will gladly say "Fuck off" to every single one of those needs just to get Trump out to accomplish much more remote goals from the pressing needs those other people feel.

I get that y'all are very excited that the poor and the children have been rebuffed in this primary, but they don't just disappear and they don't owe Joe their votes.

All this guy is doing is getting petty suburbanites to feel self-righteous. This shit will convince no one who needs convincing.

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

No.  That guy was just being a Trump mouthpiece.  Biden just told a Trumpkin - and by association, Trump -  he was full of shit.  And he was right.  That's a preview of the debates, if Trump shows.  That's why liberals are excited. 

He will absolutely not talk to Donald Trump that way. He will debate Trump vigorously, but if you think he's going to cuss Trump out and threaten to physically assault him you're a moron.

I think it would be cool as hell, but that's not how this plays out.

Quote

Get over yourself and your, "The only liberal is a Bernie liberal" schtick.  It's exhausting.

When you know b_t super duper well lol

[Huckleberry 33,054]

23 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Liberals right now are more excited about Joe threatening to fight a factory worker than they were about ANTIFA threatening to fight literal Nazis.

No war but class war.

Hey now. Not a liberal but I'm a fan of both.

[Chuckie Finster 22,709]

Somehow, "the Establishment" has become synonymous with "Trump-lite" to many progressives.  Biden needs to remind everyone that the last "Establishment" presidency included:

Affordable Care Act 

DACA

Nominations of Sotomayor and Kagan

The ending of the war in Iraq

Dodd-Frank

Repealing of "Dont Ask, Don't Tell" 

Iran Nuclear Deal

Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Fair Pay Act of 2009

Marriage Equality (I know this was a Supreme Court decision, but Obama became a champion of the cause)

and obviously more.

I get that Bernie is your guy.  I get that Biden does not support every issue that is important to you.  I get that you feel alienated.  But when you compare the above list with what has gone on over the last three years, to view this as a "lesser of two evils" situation is fucking insane.  You might not get 100% of what is important to you with a Biden administration, but you'll get a hell of a lot closer.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Are you saying that Barack Obama was the establishment candidate in 2008?

Hillary picked up the superdelegate pledges of 70-80% of those who announced from January 2007 to December 2007. It was only after polling was super strong for Obama that he started picking up in early December and then, after winning Iowa, the superdelegates went with the energy. The same was true of major endorsements.

While Obama became the establishment due to 8 years in the White House, arguing that he was the establishment candidate in 2008 is completely dishonest. He was the progressive outsider, that was his entire pitch.

(He also had charm, charisma, youth, vitality, decent humor, good looks, and a captivating speaking ability... all things Bernie lacks.)

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Somehow, "the Establishment" has become synonymous with "Trump-lite" to many progressives.  Biden needs to remind everyone that the last "Establishment" presidency included:

Affordable Care Act 

DACA

Nominations of Sotomayor and Kagan

The ending of the war in Iraq

Dodd-Frank

Repealing of "Dont Ask, Don't Tell" 

Iran Nuclear Deal

Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Fair Pay Act of 2009

Marriage Equality (I know this was a Supreme Court decision, but Obama became a champion of the cause)

and obviously more.

I get that Bernie is your guy.  I get that Biden does not support every issue that is important to you.  I get that you feel alienated.  But when you compare the above list with what has gone on over the last three years, to view this as a "lesser of two evils" situation is fucking insane.  You might not get 100% of what is important to you with a Biden administration, but you'll get a hell of a lot closer.

This x1000.  And we will get none of the 2020 version of these things is going to happen if Trump is re-elected.  Guaranteed.  Maybe they don't happen if Biden is elected either, but the possibility of it is much, much greater. 

The vast majority of America does not want "RADICAL CHANGE!!!" They want things to be mostly the same, but maybe a little better, and definitely with that asshole in the WH out of the way.  I know this hurts the Bernie bros in their feels.  But it's time to ditch the feels for what may actually be achieved.  

[Chuckie Finster 22,709]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Are you saying that Barack Obama was the establishment candidate in 2008?

Hillary picked up the superdelegate pledges of 70-80% of those who announced from January 2007 to December 2007. It was only after polling was super strong for Obama that he started picking up in early December and then, after winning Iowa, the superdelegates went with the energy. The same was true of major endorsements.

While Obama became the establishment due to 8 years in the White House, arguing that he was the establishment candidate in 2008 is completely dishonest. He was the progressive outsider, that was his entire pitch.

(He also had charm, charisma, youth, vitality, decent humor, good looks, and a captivating speaking ability... all things Bernie lacks.)

That's not what I am saying at all.  I'm not talking about the election, I'm talking about the administration.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Just now, Chad Fuck said:

The vast majority of America does not want "RADICAL CHANGE!!!" 

20 states have voted so far, and in all 20 of those states the exit polls show that more people want to get rid of private insurance and replace it with a government plan than not.

A lot of you more conservative-minded centrists are reading yourselves into these voting results.

[Bateshorn 9,928]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

20 states have voted so far, and in all 20 of those states the exit polls show that more people want to get rid of private insurance and replace it with a government plan than not.

A lot of you more conservative-minded centrists are reading yourselves into these voting results.

Unfortunately, the actual polls don't reflect that view.

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

20 states have voted so far, and in all 20 of those states the exit polls show that more people want to get rid of private insurance and replace it with a government plan than not.

A lot of you more conservative-minded centrists are reading yourselves into these voting results.

I want that.  I also want Hershey's kisses to rain from the sky.  It feels awesome to say, "Get rid of private insurance!"  It may happen.  But Bernie is not the guy who can get it done.  And the polling you reference shows the voters know this.  They want it.  They know it's not happening with Bernie.    

[Dirk X West 772]

Just now, Chad Fuck said:

I want that.  I also want Hershey's kisses to rain from the sky.  It feels awesome to say, "Get rid of private insurance!"  It may happen.  But Bernie is not the guy who can get it done.  And the polling you reference shows the voters know this.  They want it.  They know it's not happening with Bernie.    

And we know it's not going to happen with Biden. So then what?

[bad_teammate 13,221]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

Unfortunately, the actual polls don't reflect that view.

Do you think people go into the voting booths knowing candidate platforms? lol

How many people on this forum alone became enthusiastic Biden voters while knowing virtually nothing about his platform? Most/all of them. No one here switched from Pete/Liz/Amy only after reading through his issues page. They did it because that's where the narrative, energy, and momentum took them.

Looking at voting patterns as evidence of a rational-choice world is as stupid as looking at economies as evidence of a rational-choice world.

Donald Trump is president because millions of Americans went into the voting booth thinking he was going to build a wall, bring back the manufacturing economy, and give them healthcare.

[Chuckie Finster 22,709]

3 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

And we know it's not going to happen with Biden. So then what?

Children in cages and tax cuts to billionaires or a potential list resembling what I posted above.  Your choice.

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

4 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

And we know it's not going to happen with Biden. So then what?

So then you don't focus on what you can't get and focus on what you can - improving ACA after the hollowing out of Trump, DACA reform, any host of Dem goals.  That's the whole point.  Let's not be disappointed in not achieving an unrealizable goal.

[Biff Tannen 45,697]

5 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

And we know it's not going to happen with Biden. So then what?

Then what?  Then we continue to push in 2024 and beyond.  It's not like this is the only chance.  However, it IS the only chance to get rid of the dotard and stop the assault on our democracy.

[Bateshorn 9,928]

Quote

And nothing so wryly candid as the Democrat Morris K. Udall’s remark on a losing presidential primary night in 1976. “The people have spoken,” Udall said, pausing for effect. “The bastards.”

@bad_teammate  For better or worse, the people ain't buying what your man is selling.  Bernie doesn't fuck at the ballot box.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Dirk X West 772]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Then what?  Then we continue to push in 2024 and beyond.  It's not like this is the only chance.  However, it IS the only chance to get rid of the dotard and stop the assault on our democracy.

Yeah, I don't get this assumption that if Biden wins, it's all be smooth sailing from there.  One of the primary reasons Trump won is because the Democrats didn't do much to help struggling average Americans - or didn't seem like they were, or some combination of the two - after Obama got people's hopes up, so, at least to me, it's not hard to foresee an ineffectual and alienating Biden administration (assuming he can even win) leading to another Trump or someone more dangerous down the line. 

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

Just now, Dirk X West said:

Yeah, I don't get this assumption that if Biden wins, it's all be smooth sailing from there.  One of the primary reasons Trump won is because the Democrats didn't do much to help struggling average Americans - or didn't seem like they were, or some combination of the two - after Obama got people's hopes up, so, at least to me, it's not hard to foresee an ineffectual and alienating Biden administration (assuming he can even win) leading to another Trump or someone more dangerous down the line. 

I don't see anyone saying "smooth sailing."  All the flaws you mention are real flaws, real issues that need to be addressed.  Whether Biden addresses them or not we can't say.  But there so many issues on which we can move forward, as Chuckie listed.  Let's take that chance.  

What we CAN say, is that for more years of Trump will be further disaster after disaster.  Let's not do that.

 

[Jester 382]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

20 states have voted so far, and in all 20 of those states the exit polls show that more people want to get rid of private insurance and replace it with a government plan than not.

A lot of you more conservative-minded centrists are reading yourselves into these voting results.

Your issue is that you're equating a government health insurance plan with 'radical change'.  I don't think anyone views it as such following what Obamacare had set forth.  The free college and other pie in the sky ideas.....yes.  Those are radical and won't pass regardless of who the nominee is on either side.

The fact that you'd throw away your vote if Biden doesn't meet some arbitrary ultimatum you've set forth is both hilarious and sad.  I have no idea how old you are, but it's the classic millennial everyone gets a trophy/instant gratification attitude.  And if you don't get a trophy, damn't if you aren't taking your ball and going home.

[TXSooner518 2,438]

10 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Biden isn't going to die soon and the Dems would never 25th him

I mean, you really don't know that. Healthy 80 year olds die all the time. Biden is clearly declining now, and we have seen how the stress of campaigning and the Presidency ages people. You really to wager that Biden is alive, healthy, and at least competent enough for appearances in, say, summer 2023? That's 40 months from now.  And again, this completely disregards rampant spread of a virus that kills about 15% of those in Biden's age bracket that contract it.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

33 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

20 states have voted so far, and in all 20 of those states the exit polls show that more people want to get rid of private insurance and replace it with a government plan than not.

A lot of you more conservative-minded centrists are reading yourselves into these voting results.

Those exit polls don't seem very reliable. Are they polling only Democratic primary voters? Both primaries and if so, what ratio? Lot of data missing.

I agree with you that it's a lot more popular than most people think but the truth is somewhere in the middle of what you want to be true and what others instinctively believe about popular opinion.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

16 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

@bad_teammate  For better or worse, the people ain't buying what your man is selling.  Bernie doesn't fuck at the ballot box.

OK, what does that have to do with what we're talking about?

I get that your primary motivator is personal spite, but the adults are talking about actual issues right now.

20 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Children in cages and tax cuts to billionaires or a potential list resembling what I posted above.  Your choice.

What are Biden's plans for taxation regarding billionaires? You know, since billionaires ruining our economy for their own gain is bad.

What are Biden's plans regarding our prison-industrial complex? You know, since people getting caged is bad.

18 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Then what?  Then we continue to push in 2024 and beyond.  It's not like this is the only chance.  However, it IS the only chance to get rid of the dotard and stop the assault on our democracy.

What is "the assault on our democracy"?

What is Biden going to do about Citizens United? Will he make it a litmus test for the SC and then work to break the filibuster? Will he push to bend parliamentary rules and appoint an SC who will act outside of precedent?

3 minutes ago, Jester said:

Your issue is that you're equating a government health insurance plan with 'radical change'.

It's a testament to Bernie's overall political efficacy and power that you say this thinking it's believable. Bernie was gang-banged for 10+ debates by Democratic nominees about why M4A is too radical a change and how people love their private healthcare.

Quote

The fact that you'd throw away your vote if Biden doesn't meet some arbitrary ultimatum you've set forth is both hilarious and sad.

My only criteria is Biden saying he won't veto progressive legislation that gets through Congress.

I assumed he wouldn't, but he said he would a couple of days ago and that's a fairly major problem.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

I agree with you that it's a lot more popular than most people think but the truth is somewhere in the middle of what you want to be true and what others instinctively believe about popular opinion.

That's fair.

Another thing to consider is this: How much of this white suburban surge for Joe is actually anti-Bernie and not pro-Joe? And, with Bernie off the ballot in November, how loyal are these voters to Joe once they're faced with a choice between Joe and a Republican who better serves their class values?

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

2 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

I mean, you really don't know that. Healthy 80 year olds die all the time. 

Exactly. *wink wink* 80 year olds, like Joe Biden *wink wink* drop dead all the time and no one asks any questions *wink wink wink* sure would be a shame if something happened to old old Joe Biden. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

2 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Sanders, his supporters, and the Bernie bros need to start cleaning their house. They have allowed this victimhood messaging to resonate. Sanders needs to take a bulk of the responsibility since he chose to run an anti-Democratic party campaign and surround himself with anti-establishment people. 

Sanders has a big job to do. He needs to get to it

Yeah, if only I believed Bernie was capable of this.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

That's fair.

Another thing to consider is this: How much of this white suburban surge for Joe is actually anti-Bernie and not pro-Joe? And, with Bernie off the ballot in November, how loyal are these voters to Joe once they're faced with a choice between Joe and a Republican who better serves their class values?

Remember like the last entire year when you spouted off 2016 primary results from the Rust Belt as irrefutable empirical evidence that Bernie would have beaten Trump?

Edited March 11, 2020 by BradInATX

[Biff Tannen 45,697]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What is "the assault on our democracy"?

Don't be fatuous b_t

[Jester 382]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's a testament to Bernie's overall political efficacy and power that you say this thinking it's believable. Bernie was gang-banged for 10+ debates by Democratic nominees about why M4A is too radical a change and how people love their private healthcare.

 

Let's take this as fact without giving any credit to Obama.  Great.  Good on Bernie.

So faced with someone who could push that ball forward vs. Trump who is trying to kill any hope of getting it done..... you might throw away your vote if Biden doesn't affirmatively state he'd pass every progressive bill that 'might' land on his desk?  Can you see how ridiculous that thinking is?  You can't be that stupid.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Remember like the last entire year when you spouted off 2016 primary results from the Rust Belt as irrefutable empirical evidence that Bernie would have beaten Trump?

Yes, because we know how the general election ended up going and how thin those margins were. Also, the head-to-heads where Bernie was way ahead of Hillary.

Biden would also have won in 2016.

[HenryJames 66,139]

The Republican senate would have totally passed all of Bernie's progressive legislation.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

25 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Children in cages and tax cuts to billionaires or a potential list resembling what I posted above.  Your choice.

So you think that nominating and electing a man who was part of an administration that put children in cages will definitely be morally opposed to such a thing now? And this same man who hurt millions of Americans to protect the banks with respect to student loans and other programs will now never do such a thing? A guy who wants to leave the banks in charge of everything will be morally opposed to tax cuts for billionaires? The guy isn't even willing to return the corporate tax rate to 35%, instead choosing to split the difference and take it back halfway, to 28%.

He's already scared to hold banks and the wheels of power responsible before he gets to the White House. It's really strange how many people think Biden is better than he really is.

He's better than Trump, so that part is true. It's just a really low bar.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, because we know how the general election ended up going and how thin those margins were. Also, the head-to-heads where Bernie was way ahead of Hillary.

Biden would also have won in 2016.

Then by your logic from summer of 2019 through about two weeks ago, Joe will landslide Trump.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Don't be fatuous b_t

First of all, I will never stop being fatuous.

Secondly, on the actual issue, outline what you mean. I'm not saying it isn't happening, I'm just interested to know what you mean.

1 minute ago, Jester said:

So faced with someone who could push that ball forward vs. Trump who is trying to kill any hope of getting it done..... you might throw away your vote if Biden doesn't affirmatively state he'd pass every progressive bill that 'might' land on his desk?  Can you see how ridiculous that thinking is?

How is vetoing progressive legislation pushing the ball forward?

I'm not even saying Biden has to advocate for or champion M4A. All I ask is that he not veto it.

It's a perfectly reasonable request.

[Hank Kingsley 20,997]

Bernie wasn't "gangbanged" about M4A through 10+ debates. Warren got more grief over it than anyone, and in general most candidates didn't even bother confronting him for some reason.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Then by your logic from summer of 2019 through about two weeks ago, Joe will landslide Trump.

We don't have the benefit of hindsight yet. We'll find out, which is why I phrased what you initially responded to as questions and not statements.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

 

I'm not even saying Biden has to advocate for or champion M4A. All I ask is that he not veto it.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

56 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Somehow, "the Establishment" has become synonymous with "Trump-lite" to many progressives.  Biden needs to remind everyone that the last "Establishment" presidency included:

Affordable Care Act 

DACA

Nominations of Sotomayor and Kagan

The ending of the war in Iraq

Dodd-Frank

Repealing of "Dont Ask, Don't Tell" 

Iran Nuclear Deal

Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Fair Pay Act of 2009

Marriage Equality (I know this was a Supreme Court decision, but Obama became a champion of the cause)

and obviously more.

I get that Bernie is your guy.  I get that Biden does not support every issue that is important to you.  I get that you feel alienated.  But when you compare the above list with what has gone on over the last three years, to view this as a "lesser of two evils" situation is fucking insane.  You might not get 100% of what is important to you with a Biden administration, but you'll get a hell of a lot closer.

 

[bad_teammate 13,221]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Bernie wasn't "gangbanged" about M4A through 10+ debates. Warren got more grief over it than anyone, and in general most candidates didn't even bother confronting him for some reason.

Every single debate had a 10+ minute section railing on M4A. Even the moderators and candidates would comment on, "Oh great here we go again."

Be honest.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Just now, BradInATX said:

That's been my position since Biden said he'd veto M4A. What the fuck are you talking about?

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, if only I believed Bernie was capable of this.

I also kind of doubt. But it would be the mature thing to do and clearly in the interest of continued US democracy (aka removing the authoritarian from office). People on the left need to start demanding it. I’m sure there will always be a faction of the Bernie bros (like bad teammate and other twitter tools) that don’t have the maturity or awareness, but that doesn’t mean all other progressives shouldn’t demand Bernie do the right thing - and soon.

[Chuckie Finster 22,709]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

It's the left version of "the swamp."  A monolith that is easy to blame, no analysis required.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

If only there was historical precedent for what Bernie would do if he were beaten by an establishment-anointed candidate.

If only there was statistical evidence of what Bernie's primary voters would do.

ALAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!