2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hank Kingsley 20,997]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's not just the left that thinks Biden isn't a sure thing.

 

The establishment MSM is "anti-Sanders", until they say something agreeable to Bernie world, and then they are absolutely correct. 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26,438]

2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

He dun.

He's been notified.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

If Bernie is going to withdraw, then I think that would be very good for the party and our chances to beat Trump.

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

But if y'all are going to continue to get emotional and defensive when the facts are not on your side

The facts are on my side. Trump and his administrations policies have exponentially and intentionally made life worse for people trying to come into this country.

 

Go read your quote again.
 

The clear implication is that Biden isn’t different than Trump on immigration policies that result in children in cages. If I seem emotional it’s because I’m taken aback by your intellectual dishonesty 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Pig Bellmont

[Hank Kingsley 20,997]

16 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

He's been notified.

Sanders is not dropping out right now. They'll debate on Sunday and we'll go into Tuesday voting in Florida, Ohio, Arizona, and Illinois. 

If Joe-mentum continues on Tuesday, then I expect Bernie to drop out shortly after. 

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

16 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There's no equivocation and I've made that abundantly clear. I responded to exactly what was posted.

If y'all would like to discuss other policies and policy changes then I'm happy to do so, although it will be a brief conversation because we're in agreement on those issues. But if you're going to try to use the phrase "children in cages"  as an emotional appeal to win votes then I will point out facts. If you can't handle facts then maybe Trumpism is a bit closer to your side of the argument than you think.

Say what you mean or you will lose to Trump again. Stick with the facts that are on your side. Hammer home the family separation issue. But if y'all are going to continue to get emotional and defensive when the facts are not on your side then you are going to get beaten by Donald Trump again. Voters are dumb, they will side with emotional and on the attack over emotional and defensive every single time.

No man. If you are gonna drop down both sides narratives, you need to back it up. A 2014 news article doesn’t do that.

The only thing I can do is provide you with information that dispels your BoTh SiDeS position. It is up to you to read that information and do better in the future.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy

[bad_teammate 13,221]

I don't know why Bernie dropping out now would be good for the party. I don't get it.

Just watch him play to the whistle and lose the game he's clearly going to lose.

What actual good comes from calling the game early?

Does anyone think Bernie is going to go out in a debate and talk about Hunter Biden fucking Beau's widow? Does anyone think he's going to go nasty?

Stop being so fucking scared.

What if Joe comes out against Bernie and looks stronger over time? What if Joe really takes hits and learns how to moderate his tone and attitude and gets sharper because he has to spar? What if Joe leaves a full primary a BETTER candidate!?

[Anastasis 23,481]

53 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

This is the problem with political dialogue.

People pick up fallacious ideas from twitter or wherever about both sides and then get fed weaksauce evidence to assert. Then they regurgitate 

Yes, reading this exchange it clearly exemplifies some of the problems with our politics. LOL if you think that is what Huckleberry is doing. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

What actual good comes from calling the game early?

A few more weeks of not seeing you and other Bernie bros on Twitter amplifying Trump campaign videos?

[F250 28,806]

43 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I literally provided the reference for the origin of the phrase. You're wrong, so your bad faith statement is as weak as your argument.

This is exactly how you lose a messaging battle during an election. Scream about "children in cages" for a couple of weeks. Then watch as the opposition throws up ad after ad showing the history of "children in cages" starting in 2014 when Joe Biden was Vice President.

Say what you mean. What you mean is family separation which is a related but separate policy and is even more horrific than detaining children in fenced areas (particularly because it combines with the latter). To help you understand the issue I have edited my previous post to include an actual link to the article I referenced.

I remember having this conversation a couple of years ago in the immigration thread and it was not recieved very well. Immigration Rights advocates have been making this same point throughout the Trump administration, shit was also bad under Obama. It has been bad ever since Dubya created DHS/ICE and continues to worsen and yes Trump has made it much worse but that doesn't excuse what happened under Obama's administration.

ICE is the problem and as long as that organization exists it will continue to be a problem no matter who sits in the White House. I know it offends liberal sensibilities to point out that life sucked for certain people under Obama but it did. Immigration reform needs to take place and it needs to be pushed by the Democrats because the Republicans sure as hell will not do it. Saying "we are not as bad as Trump isn't good enough." Champion the cause if you genuinely care.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

52 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

An article from 2014 is not support for the assertion that BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE when it comes to children in cages, family separations, or immigration.

It is weak sauce to assert that.

This is the problem with political dialogue.

People pick up fallacious ideas from twitter or wherever about both sides and then get fed weaksauce evidence to assert. Then they regurgitate 

Nobody here made that assertion. The problem with political dialogue is people like you who respond to things that were never said.

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The facts are on my side. Trump and his administrations policies have exponentially and intentionally made life worse for people trying to come into this country.

 

Go read your quote again.
 

The clear implication is that Biden isn’t different than Trump on immigration policies that result in children in cages. If I seem emotional it’s because I’m taken aback by your intellectual dishonesty 

It's laughable that you are accusing me of intellectual dishonesty. 

CF: Your choice is between the Obama administration on one hand or children in cages and tax cuts to billionaires on the other hand.
Me: There were children in cages during the Obama administration.
GWH: This is a Trump lie and talking point. There were no family separations during the Obama administration like there are under Trump.
Me: I didn't say there were family separations, I said there were children in cages. Here is a link showing the origin of the phrase "children in cages" from 2014. You are correct that the Obama administration didn't separate families, but that's not what I said. Family separation is a more horrific policy.
GWH: You can't put kids in cages unless they're first separated from their families. You're arguing in bad faith.
Me: Again, I provided a citation showing "children in cages" originated in 2014. Family separation is different and worse, especially combined with children in cages.
Me again: The Obama administration was putting unaccompanied children in cages. They were not actively separating them from their families.
GWH: Your article doesn't support the assertion that both sides are the same.
PB: Catch and release was rescinded by Trump. He also mandated prosecution of all misdemeanors and that jail time be sought. Points of entry were closed and asylum applications were slow played. That required imprisonment and further family separation. It's absurd that you're equivocating the Obama and Trump administration.
Me: I never equivocated between the two and have made clear that the Trump administration is worse due to separate policies and policy changes beyond "children in cages." Stick to the facts like family separation.
PB: Trump has made things worse. Go read what you said again. You clearly implied that Biden is no different from Trump.
People who can read: What the fuck are you talking about?

How about you go back and read through things yourself.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

A few more weeks of not seeing you and other Bernie bros on Twitter amplifying Trump campaign videos?

This is actually refreshingly honest, thanks.

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

39 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

So you think that nominating and electing a man who was part of an administration that put children in cages will definitely be morally opposed to such a thing now?

That’s your quote Huck. Just the facts and no equivocation... lolk. 

[Pasken 1,309]

Are there any metrics to suggest where Warren supporters went to?

[Huckleberry 33,054]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

That’s your quote Huck. Just the facts and no equivocation... lolk. 

Don't stop there. Go ahead and explain what part of that is false and what part of that says Biden is no different from Trump. Don't forget to account for the fact that I explicitly stated multiple times that Trump's administration has done worse things.

The fact that you read way too much into that is your problem, not mine. The Obama administration put children in cages. That is a fact. If the Democratic Party doesn't have a better plan for handling that fact after they nominate the Obama administration's Vice President then they're in a shitload of trouble. Fortunately I believe they're better equipped to handle that than you and GWH.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Chad Fuck 17,712]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yes, reading this exchange it clearly exemplifies some of the problems with our politics. LOL if you think that is what Huckleberry is doing. 

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Nobody here made that assertion. The problem with political dialogue is people like you who respond to things that were never said.

 

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

So you think that nominating and electing a man who was part of an administration that put children in cages will definitely be morally opposed to such a thing now?

 

[bad_teammate 13,221]

2 minutes ago, Pasken said:

Are there any metrics to suggest where Warren supporters went to?

Her base was educated whites and those went primarily to Biden.

[F250 28,806]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yes, reading this exchange it clearly exemplifies some of the problems with our politics. LOL if you think that is what Huckleberry is doing. 

Unfortunately people are mistaking Trump as the disease when he is the symptom.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

 

 

You're just making things even worse for yourself. How can I have been equating both sides when I didn't even mention the other side? Joe Biden was a member of the Obama administration when the Obama administration's ICE agency put children in cages. At that time, to anyone's knowledge, Joe Biden did not resist, oppose, or otherwise have a problem with that practice.

Is that true or is that false?

[workswithseed 2,109]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Exactly. *wink wink* 80 year olds, like Joe Biden *wink wink* drop dead all the time and no one asks any questions *wink wink wink* sure would be a shame if something happened to old old Joe Biden. 

So Pence will be our first gay President? 

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

I remember having this conversation a couple of years ago in the immigration thread and it was not recieved very well. Immigration Rights advocates have been making this same point throughout the Trump administration, shit was also bad under Obama. It has been bad ever since Dubya created DHS/ICE and continues to worsen and yes Trump has made it much worse but that doesn't excuse what happened under Obama's administration.

ICE is the problem and as long as that organization exists it will continue to be a problem no matter who sits in the White House. I know it offends liberal sensibilities to point out that life sucked for certain people under Obama but it did. Immigration reform needs to take place and it needs to be pushed by the Democrats because the Republicans sure as hell will not do it. Saying "we are not as bad as Trump isn't good enough." Champion the cause if you genuinely care.

No one is saying the world was hunky Dory under Obama. The issue is the narrative that Biden would be the same as trump when it comes to kids in cages/family separations. That is a trump talking point and clearly fallacious.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

Unfortunately people are mistaking Trump as the disease when he is the symptom.

The most frustrating part of this little back-and-forth to me is the realization that when it comes to the actual children that are being used as a political football right now, they don't actually care about them. They only care about using them to beat Trump. People who actually care about immigrant children and the trauma inflicted by being thrown in a cage like an animal are just as angered by that practice when it's a Democratic administration as they are when it's a Republican administration.

They want us to forget about how those kids were mistreated under Obama because it hampers their ability to beat Trump. Fuck that. George W. Bush, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and every other politician who allowed that to happen should be held accountable from now until forever. Donald Trump should be held accountable for the escalation of that mistreatment that he has instituted. But you don't forgive the last guy's atrocities because a new guy came along and made it worse.

Unless you're Pig Bellmont and GW Hayduke. Then you don't just forgive him, you try to whitewash that history because he's your party's nominee.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So Pence will be our first gay President? 

James Buchanan was super gay.

[TwiceHorn 31,516]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

An article from 2014 is not support for the assertion that BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE when it comes to children in cages, family separations, or immigration.

It is weak sauce to assert that.

This is the problem with political dialogue.

People pick up fallacious ideas from twitter or wherever about both sides and then get fed weaksauce evidence to assert. Then they regurgitate 

Huckleberry does not regurgitate.  He may vomit from time to time, but he does not regurgitate.

[F250 28,806]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

No one is saying the world was hunky Dory under Obama. The issue is the narrative that Biden would be the same as trump when it comes to kids in cages/family separations. That is a trump talking point and clearly fallacious.

It's actually an Immigration Rights talking point. The fact that you do not understand this is the problem. I get it, most of these people are part of the underclass without a voice so they should be happy as long as they don't suffer from any government committed crimes that would warrant an investigation into crimes against humanity.

You are part of the problem.

[Pig Bellmont 8,719]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You're just making things even worse for yourself. How can I have been equating both sides when I didn't even mention the other side? Joe Biden was a member of the Obama administration when the Obama administration's ICE agency put children in cages. At that time, to anyone's knowledge, Joe Biden did not resist, oppose, or otherwise have a problem with that practice.

Is that true or is that false?

Buddy. The point you took upon yourself to dispute was an emotional appeal related to immigration policy. Your current point above does nothing to refute the premise that Trump has imprisoned many more children and made it a policy priority to deter future immigration. To answer your rhetorical: Biden would undoubtedly be better alternative and result in fewer children in cages - and fewer deaths in ICE custody. I do believe Biden would be morally opposed to Trump’s border and immigration policies, so I don’t know what your tangent is accomplishing

[Pasken 1,309]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Her base was educated whites and those went primarily to Biden.

Right but is there any data showing that?

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

he most frustrating part of this little back-and-forth to me is the realization that when it comes to the actual children that are being used as a political football right now, they don't actually care about them. They only care about using them to beat Trump. People who actually care about immigrant children and the trauma inflicted by being thrown in a cage like an animal are just as angered by that practice when it's a Democratic administration as they are when it's a Republican administration.

It is weird that you would try to make this personal.

What is up with that?

Your both sides narrative gets called out, so you decide to attack motive. Where is that coming from?

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Bernie just spoke for about 10 minutes. Starts ~23 minutes in.

Bernie is making it very clear what he's going to say on Sunday's debate and giving Joe the questions ahead of time so Joe can be ready.

Worth watching for all of you curious about what Bernie's going to do.

[Aqua Buddha 14,599]

32 minutes ago, Pasken said:

Are there any metrics to suggest where Warren supporters went to?

I'd guess 80% went to Biden based on last night's returns.  Bern finally got above 30% in both Michigan and Missouri and barely at that.  Even in a two man race, he has trouble cracking 30%.  He'll get half of that in GA and FL.  

The rest went to Biden.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Nina summarizing it for those who don't want to watch a video...

She left out a couple of things, including M4A. Bernie directly addressed the veto question and is likely going to want a firm commitment from Joe to not veto progressive legislation.

[burntorangebongos 10,750]

I think Huck is showing why it might be good for Bernie to stay in the race so Joe and his campaign can talk down these true talking poinys and mitigate them. Kids came unaccompanied and the administration was caught off gaurd and put them in cages but, iirc, found family to release them to without death while in custody. It was bad But, the Trump administration did even worse. We need immigration reform because even the Obama administration answers were not good and resulted in kids in cages.  Prettying up that fact is something Joe needs to work on NOW. Huck is correct in fact but this fact can be mitigated by the circumstances and by not avoiding the hard work to fix the problems. That will serve Biden's campaign better in the long run.

[Huckleberry 33,054]

4 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

I think Huck is showing why it might be good for Bernie to stay in the race so Joe and his campaign can talk down these true talking poinys and mitigate them. Kids came unaccompanied and the administration was caught off gaurd and put them in cages but, iirc, found family to release them to without death while in custody. It was bad But, the Trump administration did even worse. We need immigration reform because even the Obama administration answers were not good and resulted in kids in cages.  Prettying up that fact is something Joe needs to work on NOW. Huck is correct in fact but this fact can be mitigated by the circumstances and by not avoiding the hard work to fix the problems. That will serve Biden's campaign better in the long run.

This is 100% accurate. As I said in this thread a week ago, now is the time to hold Joe Biden's feet to the fire. He needs to get this stuff out of the way between now and the convention.

Why did the Obama administration put children in cages? What is your plan to make sure it doesn't happen ever again?
Why did you vote for the Defense of Marriage Act? Do you now recognize how wrong you were and pledge never to go backwards on this issue again?
Why did you fight to pass the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act which made it nearly impossible to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy? Do you now recognize how wrong you were to put the banks ahead of the people and pledge never to go backwards on this issue again?

Those claiming they want a unified front for the general election need to stop yelling at Sanders supporters and progressives and start assuaging their perfectly valid concerns.

[henrygandorf 29,194]

40 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't know why Bernie dropping out now would be good for the party. I don't get it.

Just watch him play to the whistle and lose the game he's clearly going to lose.

What actual good comes from calling the game early?

Does anyone think Bernie is going to go out in a debate and talk about Hunter Biden fucking Beau's widow? Does anyone think he's going to go nasty?

Stop being so fucking scared.

What if Joe comes out against Bernie and looks stronger over time? What if Joe really takes hits and learns how to moderate his tone and attitude and gets sharper because he has to spar? What if Joe leaves a full primary a BETTER candidate!?

there are a few different reasons candidates hold out for too long, and the implications and effects can be varied, on both their personal/political legacies, and what's best for the party and the upcoming general election.  more often than not, it's a result of ego, hurt feelings, denial, and the natural emotion of coming to terms with letting a "dream" die.

bernie is staying in, and my opinion is that it's for the best possible reasons imaginable.  judging from what we know about him and what he believes in, coupled with recent statements and today's press conference, my read is that he's got a plan, and i think it's a good one for all parties involved.

this isn't about ego or letting dreams die, this is about beating trump.  in the end, that's what bernie wants out of this cycle.  big picture, he has his policies, but this cycle, he knows the first step in healing the country is getting trump (and mcconnell) out of power.

so as much as it pains me, and it does, i will agree with what bt has said in this (and only this) quoted post.  he's not going to go negative or nasty.  he will give joe every opportunity to speak to 'bernie' issues, and to win over 'bernie's' progressive supporters.  he'll even tee up the veto question, and i can only assume joe's people will have an actual coherent answer for it - he has fucking 4 days to write two sentences down and memorize it.

this is bernie's compromise.  he will back joe and he will tell his people to back joe, if and only if, joe jumps through a series of very large and conveniently placed hoops.  he's making this as easy as possible to project unity moving forward over the following 8 months, starting likely in a week or so.  any bitterness, anger, resentment, or pettiness would only stoke the flames of an all-out twitter war among the dems.  nobody wants that.  bernie doesn't want that.

if you're rooting for trump to lose, this is the first step towards the best possible outcome.  if you're rooting for progressive policies, this is the first step towards the 2nd best possible outcome.  this is about the big picture, trump, and bernie's legacy.  he's a smart guy, he knows he's through.

[RomaVicta 29,955]

40 minutes ago, F250 said:

Unfortunately people are mistaking Trump as the disease when he is the symptom.

The fact that Trump is even a viable candidate supports your point.

Dems need to hammer away at the things Trump does that undermine be the republic.

If they lose doing that, we're lost anyway.

We can speak plainly, logically, and persuasively just as Schiff did. Then, like Schiff, we can watch the better argument lose as the GOPs institutionalize constant dishonesty, abuse of power, and lawlessness.

We cease to be a union. We become hateful, hated mercenaries full of self-congratulation about being the envy of the world.

Tyranny of the stupid, the hateful, and those who profit by them.

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

22 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's actually an Immigration Rights talking point. The fact that you do not understand this is the problem. I get it, most of these people are part of the underclass without a voice so they should be happy as long as they don't suffer from any government committed crimes that would warrant an investigation into crimes against humanity.

You are part of the problem.

Weird flex. Trump’s admin has been a travesty for immigration rights. That should be common knowledge. 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/immigration-under-trump-review-policy-shifts

Don’t forget about Obama and Boehner’s immigration bill in 2012 that was killed by the far right wing of the GOP. It was known as the DREAM act. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

[F250 28,806]

A lot of heat is going to be needed to get Biden to move on immigration reform. I am not sure if he just doesn't give a shit or fears scaring off the crossover Republican and independent centrist voters.

 

 

[henrygandorf 29,194]

16 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Nina summarizing it for those who don't want to watch a video...

She left out a couple of things, including M4A. Bernie directly addressed the veto question and is likely going to want a firm commitment from Joe to not veto progressive legislation.

weird that she didn't mention healthcare.  seemed like a lot of the speech was focused on that (or at least the part where he was addressing joe specifically).

healthcare is a priority, it shouldn't be part of (or left off of) a long list of demands.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

It's a Tweet, don't read too much into it.

 

[Huckleberry 33,054]

7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Weird flex. Trump’s admin has been a travesty for immigration rights. That should be common knowledge. 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/immigration-under-trump-review-policy-shifts

Don’t forget about Obama and Boehner’s immigration bill in 2012 that was killed by the far right wing of the GOP. It was known as the DREAM act. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

Your whataboutism is unyielding, I'll give you that.

[F250 28,806]

1 minute ago, GW Hayduke said:

Weird flex. Trump’s admin has been a travesty for immigration rights. That should be common knowledge. 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/immigration-under-trump-review-policy-shifts

Don’t forget about Obama and Boehner’s immigration bill in 2012 that was killed by the far right wing of the GOP. It was known as the DREAM act. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

Not weird at all. I've just been paying attention to this issue before Trump was in office. Hell, my church was involved with a water station program 10 years back when the BP would destroy the water stations without ever catching any heat. See the idea was that if people die of dehydration they will stop crossing. The cruelty is the point. Sound familiar?

ICE has been a travesty for immigration rights since it's inception. All of this predates Donald Trump.

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

Not weird at all. I've just been paying attention to this issue before Trump was in office. Hell, my church was involved with a water station program 10 years back when the BP would destroy the water stations without ever catching any heat. See the idea was that if people die of dehydration they will stop crossing. The cruelty is the point. Sound familiar?

ICE has been a travesty for immigration rights since it's inception. All of this predates Donald Trump.

Cool man. Then I’m sure you are familiar with what Obama was almost able to pass in 2012. That was a big deal at the time.

[Bateshorn 9,928]

Maybe the debate will change things.  Maybe Biden will stumble hard and awaken a yearning among next Tuesday's voters for a much more left candidate.

Much more likely is Biden says a lot of nice, noncommittal things to Bernie during the debate, tries to avoid giving any grist to the Trump campaign, Bernie loses all the states next week while getting within 10-15 of Biden in AZ and then comes up with a new reason to stay in until the Wisconsin Primary on April 7.

They have 4 days to prep for the debate with nothing else to do with the rapidly expanding quarantine. There's no excuse for not being prepared.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Bateshorn

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Your whataboutism is unyielding, I'll give you that.

When the narrative pushed is both sides, it isn’t whataboutism to point out the differences between the two sides.

The narrative that both sides are the same when it comes to kids in cages and family separations should be presented with facts about the 4000+ families separated for deterrence through Sessions’ actions, the cancelling of DACA, and the context of the DREAM act, which would have allowed a path to permanent residency for minors. 

The two choices in November are stark.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Bernie used today's speech to give Biden exactly the roadmap he needs to take to avoid this potential disaster in November.

Let's see if Biden is enough of a leader to handle it.

 

[henrygandorf 29,194]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bernie used today's speech to give Biden exactly the roadmap he needs to take to avoid this potential disaster in November.

Let's see if Biden is enough of a leader to handle it.

 

so if 19% of bernie voters don't vote for biden then we'll blame biden's leadership?

nothing like lining up excuses 8 months from the general.

[bad_teammate 13,221]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

so if 19% of bernie voters don't vote for biden then we'll blame biden's leadership?

nothing like lining up excuses 8 months from the general.

This genuinely confuses me.

It's the candidate's job to win voters. 

Is it not?

[washparkhorn 9,939]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bernie used today's speech to give Biden exactly the roadmap he needs . . .

Agree. And that was intentional. He basically listed the issues and concerns and asked Joe to address them. It gives Joe plenty of time to prepare, explain how he has evolved, and what his administration will stand for. Smart play by Sanders to unite the Party and I am sure Biden appreciates Sanders defining the issues. 

It will be nice to have a policy debate for a change.And I am sure Biden can rise to the occasion - because I believe he and his followers want unity as well and want to address the people in America truly hurting from years of neglect and the last three years of Trump.

It is all laid out there for Joe to knock it out of the park.

It is time to come together. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by washparkhorn

[henrygandorf 29,194]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This genuinely confuses me.

It's the candidate's job to win voters. 

Is it not?

of course.

so you're contending that if joe says all the right things, then that 19% turns into 0%?