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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32880

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bernie used today's speech to give Biden exactly the roadmap he needs to take to avoid this potential disaster in November.

Let's see if Biden is enough of a leader to handle it.

 

English is hard. This tweet could easily be read to say that 19% of Sanders voters in Michigan wouldn't even vote for Sanders if he's the nominee.

Not to mention that I probably would have answered the same thing. I mean what if it still ends up as a brokered convention and Mike Bloomberg buys everyone off for the nomination? "Regardless of who it is" is a pretty wide statement. At this point couldn't they have just asked "will you vote for Biden in November if he wins the nomination"?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

0% is silly. Get it to ~10% and you're within historical norms.

It is funny that at what is potentially the height of hurt feelings, the Bro's are more loyal than Hillary's PUMA crew was on election day '08.

general election is in 8 months.  we have no idea how loyal they'll be, or if they'll match your fun little "relevant" charts from 12 years ago.  hillary people switching to mccain could be policy, could be racism, could be the factor of somewhat similar candidates.  bernie people switching to trump will 100% be spite-based and a vote to burn down the system they think wronged them.

i keep having to remind myself that you're the one constantly demanding people on this board "be honest" when engaging with you.  sheesh.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Maybe the debate will change things.  Maybe Biden will stumble hard and awaken a yearning among next Tuesday's voters for a much more left candidate.

Much more likely is Biden says a lot of nice, noncommittal things to Bernie during the debate, tries to avoid giving any grist to the Trump campaign, Bernie loses all the states next week while getting within 10-15 of Biden in AZ and then comes up with a new reason to stay in until the Wisconsin Primary on April 7.

They have 4 days to prep for the debate with nothing else to do with the rapidly expanding quarantine. There's no excuse for not being prepared.

Biden should concede every policy idea to Bernie   and say he will be committed to those ideas.  Boom done.  Bring on Mango Mussolini 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

hillary people switching to mccain could be policy, could be racism, could be the factor of somewhat similar candidates.  bernie people switching to trump will 100% be spite-based and a vote to burn down the system they think wronged them.

Your defensiveness with regards to PUMA people will never cease to be amusing. The stats are the stats.

As for your characterization of "will 100% be spite-based" that is wrong-headed and obnoxiously so. There are massive policy differences between Bernie and Joe and progressives have no reason at all to believe Joe will work with them or listen to them at all. He has 8 months to convince them.

It is, after all, his electability that made him the obvious choice of the Democratic voter, yes?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted
Just now, longhornmatt said:

It’s purely a coincidence that the most hardcore Bernie Sanders supporters are disaffected teenagers, and bad_teammate.  Nothing else those two groups have in common behaviorally or otherwise.

I'm probably as old as many of your parents but many of you manage to sound even more bitter against youth than I've ever dreamt of being.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted
Just now, Huckleberry said:

I have no idea what Sanders is actually trying to do, but IF he is genuinely trying to tee up softballs for Biden to reach out to progressive voters during the debate then that is absolutely a better path toward unification than dropping out immediately.

Watch the speech. He just lays out a bullet-point list of exactly what he's going to throw Joe's way.

Imagine pitchers shouting their next pitch at Astros hitters.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32880

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

general election is in 8 months.  we have no idea how loyal they'll be, or if they'll match your fun little "relevant" charts from 12 years ago.  hillary people switching to mccain could be policy, could be racism, could be the factor of somewhat similar candidates.  bernie people switching to trump will 100% be spite-based and a vote to burn down the system they think wronged them.

i keep having to remind myself that you're the one constantly demanding people on this board "be honest" when engaging with you.  sheesh.

This post is weird.

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

general election is in 8 months.  we have no idea how loyal they'll be,

"We don't know."

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

or if they'll match your fun little "relevant" charts from 12 years ago.

"We don't know."

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 hillary people switching to mccain could be policy, could be racism, could be the factor of somewhat similar candidates.

"We don't know."

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

bernie people switching to trump will 100% be spite-based and a vote to burn down the system they think wronged them.

"BUT WE DEFINITELY KNOW THIS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY"

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i keep having to remind myself that you're the one constantly demanding people on this board "be honest" when engaging with you.  sheesh.

"So why won't you be honest?"

Jesus.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Watch the speech. He just lays out a bullet-point list of exactly what he's going to throw Joe's way.

Imagine pitchers shouting their next pitch at Astros hitters.

No matter Joe's answer Bernie can comeback with "Wrong answer Joe". In baseball once the ball is on the way there is no way to avoid the home run that is about to be hit. So no it is not the same.

Edited by DanTheHorn
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

"We don't know."

he’s saying bro’s are more loyal. i didn’t say he was wrong, i said we don’t know. 
 

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

"BUT WE DEFINITELY KNOW THIS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY"

ok then please explain this behavior. and feel free to include what i’m not being honest about. 
 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

No matter Joe's answer Bernie can comeback with "Wrong answer Joe". In baseball once the ball is on the way there is no way to avoid the home run that is about to be hit. So no it is not the same.

If Joe's answer is actually better in the eyes of progressive voters then it won't matter what Bernie says.

It's up to Joe. Which isn't comforting, of course, but I don't know what more Joe could possibly ask for than his opponent giving him the pitch script ahead of the debate. How much coddling does this guy need?

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If Joe's answer is actually better in the eyes of progressive voters then it won't matter what Bernie says.

It's up to Joe. Which isn't comforting, of course, but I don't know what more Joe could possibly ask for than his opponent giving him the pitch script ahead of the debate. How much coddling does this guy need?

None he has been beating Bernie without much money or campaigning. Just starting to catch steam. The 17th should be a blood bath.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8719

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Joe’s answers will never be good enough for berners because they know exactly who he is. 

Too many purity tests. But all this assumes the debate will be respectful and focused on platform ideas. I don’t believe that will be the tone

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32880

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

he’s saying bro’s are more loyal. i didn’t say he was wrong, i said we don’t know. 
 

ok then please explain this behavior. and feel free to include what i’m not being honest about. 
 

 

You are acting like you know 100% what the behavior of 100% of defectors from Sanders to Trump will be based on when that's impossible to know. You're basing an absolute statement about everyone in a demographic on an internet poster's behavior. It's like saying every single independent who supported Warren in the primaries but will vote for Biden is a raging pedantic asshole just because I am.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

It is Joe Biden’s responsibility to adopt the platform of the guy he is soundly beating.  He’s winning the nomination, and therefore it is imperative that he change everything and pivot to the center for the general election far left to transform himself into the guy who is losing.

If he doesn't want Bernie's voters, which seem to account for ~40% of the Democratic primary participation so far, then that is a calculation that Joe can make. :)

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F250

F250 28777

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

It is Joe Biden’s responsibility to adopt the platform of the guy he is soundly beating.  He’s winning the nomination, and therefore it is imperative that he change everything and pivot to the center for the general election far left to transform himself into the guy who is losing.

Nominating Hillary Clinton as a candidate in a national popularity contest was one of the dumbest things ever and has elevated a bunch of bums by default.  Donjuald Trump was wildly unpopular, and he became President because people hate Hillary.  Bernie Sanders got a bunch of votes in 2016 because he was Hillary’s only competition.

Everyone on Twitter who is puzzled that Rust Belt white males in Michigan switched from Bernie in 2016 to Biden now need to connect the dots.  They weren’t ready for the revolution.  They just hated Hillary Clinton.   Jane Fonda was probably the only worse choice available than Hillary or Bernie.

Theoretically it's the party's responsibility to include everyone into the "Big Tent" . Although it will be very difficult to include the progressive faction without offending the former Republican crossovers and it looks like the former Republicans are going to have an influence on the Dem platform.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

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Posted

That's fair. Given those two psychological profiles, I'm very happy with mine versus the one that fits a lot of people here.

Regardless, a Biden victory was never going to change my politics. Neither was a Bernie victory. The idea that Biden getting ahead in delegates would mean that people would suddenly stop thinking it's important to properly insure every American's health is a naive one.

- Biden is convincingly beating Bernie in this primary.
- Bernie's policies and overall political beliefs are profoundly superior to Biden's.

These things do not conflict.

So I suppose the decision the Biden campaign needs to make now is how he spends the next 4 months approaching the ~40% of the Democratic primary voting base that has seen the marching-in-step alignment of the candidates, political establishment, and media establishment behind Biden and is still saying, "Nah, fuck that, still not voting for him."

If we were to enter an alternate reality in which Bernie was at an 80+ delegate lead after ST, which looked very likely before Clyburn/SC, then it would be incumbent upon Bernie to start trying to convince skeptical voters of why his policy platform could (1) beat Trump in November and (2) benefit their lives.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

hmm, my twitter profile pic is a stock photo too. Do I exist?

Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum (I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am). 

Do you doubt whether you exist?

If you do doubt whether you exist - you exist. 

 

Sorry for the tangent. Interesting account. Whatever it is, it pushes buttons and the responses are interesting.  

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

But it’s pretty apparent that the bad_teammates of the world will not be satisfied with compromise.  

I think you may be misreading the room. 

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

All Biden needs to do to get my vote is say, "I won't veto legislation passed by a Democratic House and Senate."

Which is a rational thing to want from a Democratic presidential candidate.

Undoubtedly yes. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

If we’re going with the psychoanalysis angle, I’d say rather than self loathing there’s probably more bemused amazement that you never became anything different after adolescence.   Your posts the last few days are just dressed up ways to be a sore loser.

Marinate on that conclusion and then draw a conclusion. Snap reactions are not always me at my best. 

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

All Biden needs to do to get my vote is say, "I won't veto legislation passed by a Democratic House and Senate."

Which is a rational thing to want from a Democratic presidential candidate.

I don't care if you vote for Biden or not if you live in a state that does not matter. If you live in a state that matters then if that state is lost by 2 votes per precinct you will have to live with yourself. Either way I will start thinking about the next moderate I will vote for in the next cycle.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

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Posted
1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

Yes, Wash, I am very skeptical that anyone here is worried in good faith that Joe Biden would veto a healthcare bill that passes through a Democratic House and Senate.

It's bad faith for me to listen to Joe Biden and take him at his word?

We truly are reaching Trump levels of apologism if I'm supposed to not believe his words but vote for him anyway.

Just now, DanTheHorn said:

I don't care if you vote for Biden or not if you live in a state that does not matter. If you live in a state that matters then if that state is lost by 2 votes per precinct you will have to live with yourself. Either way I will start thinking about the next moderate I will vote for in the next cycle.

This is a bad argument. The older voting population is living with itself just fine after voting against the interests for their children and grandchildren, so that kind of appeal is pretty hollow.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
Posted

We live in a time when large groups unfortunately feel that things like coalition building, negotiation, and compromise are signs of weakness. That is a similarity between the trumpkin identity and the Bernie bro identity. Add the populist rhetoric and social media marketing and their methods are spitting images

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yes, Wash, I am very skeptical that anyone here is worried in good faith that Joe Biden would veto a healthcare bill that passes through a Democratic House and Senate.   

He said he veto it if it threatened the budget. That is fact. I watched the interview in full.

He needs to evolve based on exit polling data and to bring in at least ⅓ of the Party.  

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's bad faith for me to listen to Joe Biden and take him at his word?

We truly are reaching Trump levels of apologism if I'm supposed to not believe his words but vote for him anyway.

This is a bad argument. The older voting population is living with itself just fine after voting against the interests for their children and grandchildren, so that kind of appeal is pretty hollow.

I did not make an argument. I made the statement that when folks make a decision they have to live with their decision. You do not strike me as one that will be jumping for joy that Trump won because you and folks like you choose to sit it out.

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

"We live in a time when large groups unfortunately feel that things like coalition building, negotiation, and compromise are signs of weakness. That is why we must refuse to build a coalition, negotiate, or compromise with the progressives."

Hahaha... for a guy that pretends to transcend politics and be Mr. Miyagi trying to make the left side’s political arguments as good as possible, you sure do take things personally. I don’t remember Mr. Miyagi taking things personally. He was cool like a cucumber. 

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