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2020 Democratic Nominee

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Henry Hill said:

BT - Are you voting for Biden or not? Be specific.

I'm a posting whore, you don't have to come on that hard. I will answer even the laziest troll bait.

I was prepared to vote for whoever won the majority of votes (which Biden is doing decisively) until Joe said he would veto M4A. I hadn't factored in that kind of radical corporate conservatism into my calculus beforehand, so that changed things. As it stands right now, I will leave the top line blank and vote for Democrats downballot.

I cancelled my recurring Bernie donation today and will look around for whichever downballot progressive candidate I want to throw my efforts behind in terms of donating, phonebanking, and canvassing. Joe Biden will not be that person as his policies are awful and he is a lying rapist. I will still vote for him, however, if he says he won't veto progressive legislation that makes it to his desk.

I know the left is decried for its absurd purity tests, but I will go and vote for a lying rapist if he says he will sign legislation that is unlikely to get to his desk in the first place. This doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me.

Luckily for us, he shows a lot more maturity and understanding regarding the need to earn progressive votes instead of just trolling and whining.

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

1st comment.  The Berners aren't taking it well.

Dreams die hard.

Peteheads all became Biden trolls. It's sad what loss does to a man.

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted

Regarding Twitter reactions, I said a few days ago (or a week ago, or a year, who knows with this covid time dilation) that a lot of progressives were essentially playing nice by joining a Democratic campaign and trying to go through the motions of being some kind of Democrat (even a fringe one). Bernie was essentially the glue that held them in, and with Bernie dropping out that glue disappears.

Some interpret that as normal Democrats leaving out of hurt feelings, but a lot of it is people that Bernie brought into the tent walking out of it again.

Those are people we're probably going to want to come back in 7-or-so months.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15531

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Hey poli sci nerds, could Biden pick Obama as VP?

is there some shady language in the constitution about this?  Love to hear your thots.

No shady language.  It's pretty clear: "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."  U.S. Const. amend. XII.

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Pancho

Pancho 44705

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No shady language.  It's pretty clear: "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."  U.S. Const. amend. XII.

That’s what I get for scrolling twitter during a Webex.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

Posted
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I can’t believe the last two presidential elections were basically 

1) the two most unpopular and highly unlikeable people to ever run for president and

2) see number 1, squaring off against an affable dumbass that shows massive signs of cognitive loss. Seriously, can someone explain how this came to be and is there anything we can do to get it right for 2024 when I imagine we will have an open primary both ways (unless Biden wins and the Veep takes over due to incapacity- which might not be likely but is certainly possible when you nominate a 78 year old)

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

I can’t believe the last two presidential elections were basically 

1) the two most unpopular and highly unlikeable people to ever run for president and

2) see number 1, squaring off against an affable dumbass that shows massive signs of cognitive loss. Seriously, can someone explain how this came to be and is there anything we can do to get it right for 2024 when I imagine we will have an open primary both ways (unless Biden wins and the Veep takes over due to incapacity- which might not be likely but is certainly possible when you nominate a 78 year old)

This country is in terminal decline is how.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19065

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Think I'm leaning towards this take.  It will be harder for Dems to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures under a Republican President but there is also the question of replacing RBG. 

 

Life seems to work better when it’s the opposite way (dem president and GOP congress) but I’m fine with split government. Just rather it didn’t involve Trump in the White House as a daily national disgrace 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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mdmost

mdmost 42999

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Think I'm leaning towards this take.  It will be harder for Dems to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures under a Republican President but there is also the question of replacing RBG. 

 

Dems want to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures? Since when? And thinking the Dems will win back the Senate is some pie in the sky bullshit. Focus on a winnable target, the Presidency. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Dems want to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures? Since when? And thinking the Dems will win back the Senate is some pie in the sky bullshit. Focus on a winnable target, the Presidency. 

seriously.  a "thread-the-needle" strategy 7 months out sounds a little dopey.

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mdmost

mdmost 42999

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

seriously.  a "thread-the-needle" strategy 7 months out sounds a little dopey.

That's because it's a strategy by people who are neither left of center nor anyone who would ever consider voting for Democrats. That's some "oh I hate Trump and would vote for any other Democrat other than Dementia Biden" bullshit. That's a 2020 version of Gary Johnson voters. 

Edited by mdmost
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

trump/gop/fox news worked for years to get hillary's numbers into the mid 50's.  that's the only play in trump's playbook.  i would assume the biden attacks will shift into high gear today.  though no rallies has to piss him off.

we're gonna see what taking someone as unlikable as hillary clinton out of the equation looks like.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted
Regarding Twitter reactions, I said a few days ago (or a week ago, or a year, who knows with this covid time dilation) that a lot of progressives were essentially playing nice by joining a Democratic campaign and trying to go through the motions of being some kind of Democrat (even a fringe one). Bernie was essentially the glue that held them in, and with Bernie dropping out that glue disappears.
Some interpret that as normal Democrats leaving out of hurt feelings, but a lot of it is people that Bernie brought into the tent walking out of it again.
Those are people we're probably going to want to come back in 7-or-so months.

This is not meant to be snarky, it is a genuine question. How does protesting Biden advance their cause?

The reality is that the next occupant of the White House will be an old White Man who has rape allegations and prefers capitalism. I know that’s a hard pill for many to swallow and I understand being upset and the idea of sticking it to the man by not voting for Biden/voting for Trump seems cathartic, but how does it make anything better? Which candidate is more likely to compromise with the far left? Which candidate is more likely to give you pieces of what you want, even if it’s not the whole thing.

Let’s say there’s a best case scenario and a progressive movement sweeps across the country in 2024... how much can they really get accomplished down 2-7 in the SCOTUS? How many kids in cages is worth punting down the road for the perfect candidate? How many natural disasters is it okay for one administration to mismanage just to send a message to the DNC.

Again, not trying to be a dick, I just genuinely don’t understand. To me, it seems shortsighted and immature, but I’ll be happy to hear why that isn’t the case.
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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5293

Posted
Posted (edited)

"Biden has to reach out to Bernie voters or they'll never get behind him."

Bernie drops out, Biden immediately tries to reach out to Bernie voters.

"Fuck you, you rapist poor-killer. Might as well vote for Trump again."

The Aristocrats!

Edited by Storm the Field
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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5293

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

Think I'm leaning towards this take.  It will be harder for Dems to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures under a Republican President but there is also the question of replacing RBG. 

 

If I had an entire team of political consultants and our goal was to come up with the worst strategy feasible, I'd be lucky to top this.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29345

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

trump/gop/fox news worked for years to get hillary's numbers into the mid 50's.  that's the only play in trump's playbook.  i would assume the biden attacks will shift into high gear today.  though no rallies has to piss him off.

we're gonna see what taking someone as unlikable as hillary clinton out of the equation looks like.

The media will do its part to repeat Trump’s attacks to drag Biden down to Hillary levels. Their need to draw false equivalences is too strong for them to resist.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted
2 hours ago, Storm the Field said:

If I had an entire team of political consultants and our goal was to come up with the worst strategy feasible, I'd be lucky to top this.

It’s not a strategy. It’s an acknowledgement that the best the average citizen can hope for at this point is a continuation of the current state of affairs for another four years. Hopefully Biden will lose and the Dems will be in control of at least one chamber of Congress. 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, mdmost said:

Dems want to cut Social Security and pursue other austerity measures? Since when? And thinking the Dems will win back the Senate is some pie in the sky bullshit. Focus on a winnable target, the Presidency. 

That’s exactly what Obama tried to do using the financial crisis as a pretext and what Biden, who is even more conservative than Obama, has wanted to do for nearly his entire career. 

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mdmost

mdmost 42999

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

That’s exactly what Obama tried to do using the financial crisis as a pretext and what Biden, who is even more conservative than Obama, has wanted to do for nearly his entire career. 

So your idea is to keep in place the guy who is even more conservative than Obama and Biden, has no regard for any accountability that the legislative branch puts on him (hello firing the Inspector General who would oversee the bailout money), and pin all your hopes on the Democrats losing the White House again but winning back the Senate even though that means having win Senate seats in states that Biden would have lost? All to keep Biden from cutting Social Security? And you think Trump wouldn't cut Social Security or other entitlements even though he's already stated he plans to do so? This all sounds like a brilliant strategy. 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, mdmost said:

So your idea is to keep in place the guy who is even more conservative than Obama and Biden, has no regard for any accountability that the legislative branch puts on him (hello firing the Inspector General who would oversee the bailout money), and pin all your hopes on the Democrats losing the White House again but winning back the Senate even though that means having win Senate seats in states that Biden would have lost? All to keep Biden from cutting Social Security? And you think Trump wouldn't cut Social Security or other entitlements even though he's already stated he plans to do so? This all sounds like a brilliant strategy. 

I don’t think it’s likely the Dems will win they Senate. It is very likely they will retain the House though and they will not work with Trump to cut SS or other entitlement programs because they have to at least pretend to oppose Trump.
 

However, Biden would work the Republicans to gut entitlement programs under the pretext that we have no choice in the face of exploding deficits. 

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5293

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

It’s not a strategy. It’s an acknowledgement that the best the average citizen can hope for at this point is a continuation of the current state of affairs for another four years. Hopefully Biden will lose and the Dems will be in control of at least one chamber of Congress. 

Any way you try and slice it "the best hope of achieving x, is to do y" is , by definition, a strategy, you simpleton.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20931

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:


This is not meant to be snarky, it is a genuine question. How does protesting Biden advance their cause?

The reality is that the next occupant of the White House will be an old White Man who has rape allegations and prefers capitalism. I know that’s a hard pill for many to swallow and I understand being upset and the idea of sticking it to the man by not voting for Biden/voting for Trump seems cathartic, but how does it make anything better? Which candidate is more likely to compromise with the far left? Which candidate is more likely to give you pieces of what you want, even if it’s not the whole thing.

Let’s say there’s a best case scenario and a progressive movement sweeps across the country in 2024... how much can they really get accomplished down 2-7 in the SCOTUS? How many kids in cages is worth punting down the road for the perfect candidate? How many natural disasters is it okay for one administration to mismanage just to send a message to the DNC.

Again, not trying to be a dick, I just genuinely don’t understand. To me, it seems shortsighted and immature, but I’ll be happy to hear why that isn’t the case.

Can you imagine who Trump is going to put on the Supreme Court after getting Kavanaugh on and skating past an impeachment without a trial?

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Zombie

Zombie 284

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

It’s not a strategy. It’s an acknowledgement that the best the average citizen can hope for at this point is a continuation of the current state of affairs for another four years. Hopefully Biden will lose and the Dems will be in control of at least one chamber of Congress. 

Fuck you you evil piece of shit! You are truly trash. Fuck you.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

How does protesting Biden advance their cause?

I don't know if "protesting Biden" is a framing that makes any sense. It operates from the presumption that voting is natural or automatic in general and that voting for Biden is the accepted normal move.

I can understand why you feel it is, but electoral participation isn't actually the expected norm in America. We can wish it was, and we can feel morally superior to those who do not vote, but characterizing non-voting as "protesting Biden" is self-serving.

Quote

I know that’s a hard pill for many to swallow and I understand being upset and the idea of sticking it to the man by not voting for Biden/voting for Trump seems cathartic, but how does it make anything better?

It doesn't. I would imagine the motivation of a non-voter is not, "My lack of voting will improve things."

From listening to their words, their thought is, "My vote doesn't matter anyway. None of these people care about me or want to help me." And, if we're honest, that non-voter is 100% justified in that belief. It is the job of the parties and candidates to change that belief.

Can Joe do that? We'll see. I think it's likely he can.
Will Joe actually fight for the desperate and poor once in power? We'll see. I think there's no chance in hell he will.

Quote

Which candidate is more likely to compromise with the far left? Which candidate is more likely to give you pieces of what you want, even if it’s not the whole thing.

Again, this is assuming that the person you're talking about has some very organized grand vision of a political future. You're talking about an extremely narrow set of people.

Quote

Let’s say there’s a best case scenario and a progressive movement sweeps across the country in 2024... how much can they really get accomplished down 2-7 in the SCOTUS?

I don't think Biden would appoint anyone friendly to left politics. I think Kavanaugh is right in Biden's wheelhouse if we look at his history. He's a centrist corporatist and he will choose moderate justices that appeals to the center of both parties. That's his entire brand.

Quote

How many kids in cages is worth punting down the road for the perfect candidate?

You are talking about the VP of the guy who built those cages and who just defeated one of the only Democrats to publicly denounce the building of those cages.

You are talking about the guy who, when questioned by a desperate immigration activist, said, "You should vote for Donald Trump."

You've built a reality in your head that is just incompatible with the reality a lot of other people have. You're just filtering so much out to make all of this feel not only justifiable but virtuous.

This is an absolutely disgusting choice we're being asked to make.

Quote

How many natural disasters is it okay for one administration to mismanage just to send a message to the DNC.

Joe Biden has, on multiple occasions, told people to go out and stand in long lines and crowd into nursing homes and community centers full of old people to vote in the middle of the pandemic.

Your tremendous faith in Joe Biden isn't really based on much other than wishcasting. You have no history of Joe Biden as a competent executive to draw from. We have a long legislative history to terrify us.

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5293

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Posted

I have to be on fucking crazy pills. If you're  posting in this thread and legitimately convinced that President Joe Biden (D) and his administration (i. e. the people that actually advise a president on these things) would nominate Brett Kavanaugh 2.0 and Clarence Thomas 2.0 to replace liberal judges,  you've eschewed even trying to convince anyone that you're arguing in good faith and stand for anything more than contrarian bomb-throwing.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Storm the Field said:

If you're  posting in this thread and legitimately convinced that President Joe Biden (D) and his administration (i. e. the people that actually advise a president on these things) would nominate Brett Kavanaugh 2.0 and Clarence Thomas 2.0 to replace liberal judges,  you've eschewed even trying to convince anyone that you're arguing in good faith and stand for anything more than contrarian bomb-throwing.

Oh god... who is going to tell him?

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