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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

There is no universe where Trump wins but loses the senate.  I actually think it Might be a specific exception to Schrödinger’s cat.

Is someone predicting that?  I agree with you. In the infinite multiverses, there isn't a single one with Trump being elected President and a Democratic Senate being elected in the same year. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9927

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think one of the Bro’s posited that the best case scenario is Trump being re-elected and a fully democratic Capitol Hill.

which is so horribly cynical.  It essentially embraces our decrepit and broken status quo, rather than unified democratic governance and the possibility of at least modest progressive change.

it also leaves minorities, the environment, and disenfranchised to the predations of Trump’s administration. It’s the ultimate  in entitled pouting.  People are simply not grasping that the current executive is a borderline autocrat already. There’s a not small chance that another Trump term will involve troops in the street.

Edited by Bateshorn
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m sorry you didn’t get everything you wanted.  The candidate I personally preferred also did not win the nomination.  

If the sum total of your engagement in political thought is some vague sense of personal preference then I don't think you understand where I'm coming from.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9927

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If the sum total of your engagement in political thought is some vague sense of personal preference then I don't think you understand where I'm coming from.

Oh, I understand exactly where you are coming from.  
 

 

Edited by Bateshorn
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Oh, I understand exactly where you are coming from.  

No,  you have a demeaning mischaracterization that feels validating because you get to think of yourself as a wise pragmatist in the face of a fool. Enjoy it, but don't work yourself into a shoot.

I didn't really think or care about Bernie Sanders until 2015. While I'm sure there are young people whose political entree was the Sanders campaign, if you really want to break my own personal political journey down in terms of allegiance to a candidacy it's not Sanders, it's Jesse Jackson. What's happened with Sanders in '16 and '20 is, in my mind and experience, a shadow of what happened with Jackson in '84 and '88.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Was Jesse Jackson also not able to turn out his base in numbers he said he would be able to leading to him lose the nomination in in 1988?

"He said he would" is an interesting phrase. It's like you inherently understand the difference between a hope and a guarantee, but you're still trying to troll so you pretend you don't. Weird.

Jesse Jackson swam very hard upstream against the Democratic establishment in '84 and '88 and actually did extremely well given the tremendous uphill climb he had. He lost to uninspiring garbage much to the relief of the political and corporate establishments and that uninspiring garbage went on to be terrible failures in various ways. History is an interesting thing to learn from (sorry henry).

Did he lose? Yep, he and the progressives were owned. Enjoy.
Did Bernie lose? Yep, he and the progressives were owned. Enjoy.

So if history is a story of the vanguard never winning the big prize but always pushing things towards justice in their electoral failures, then the pattern persists. An interesting position to find yourself in historically is not supporting that vanguard, but sniping at it. It's like watching a historical drama, seeing the jeering horde throwing rocks at the defeated protagonist, and thinking, "Man, it would be cool as hell to be one of those ignorant villagers throwing rocks."

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 6786

Posted
Posted

The fact is, Bernie was not able to turn out the voters he had HOPED to thus losing the nomination. I can’t quite wrap my head around the argument that if he had just won the nomination, THEN his base including young voters would turn out en masse delivering him the presidency. If that were so, why didn’t it happen during the primaries? 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted

I can't quite wrap my head around the impulse to make up an argument out of thin air and pretend that you're being assaulted with it even though it's invisible.

However, a strong primary candidate is not necessarily a strong general election candidate. This shouldn't be very hard to understand in a general sense. Primaries are about appealing to voters within the party and the general is about appealing to all voters. There is certainly a connection between the two, but it's not a 1:1 correlation.

Candidate A - Popular-but-not-enthusiasm-generating within a party but hated by independents and the other party.
Candidate B - Less popular within a party but loved by independents and relatively well-liked by the other party.

In that hypothetical, Candidate B would be a better general election candidate but a worse primary candidate.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18851

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I can't quite wrap my head around the impulse to make up an argument out of thin air and pretend that you're being assaulted with it even though it's invisible.

However, a strong primary candidate is not necessarily a strong general election candidate. This shouldn't be very hard to understand in a general sense. Primaries are about appealing to voters within the party and the general is about appealing to all voters. There is certainly a connection between the two, but it's not a 1:1 correlation.

Candidate A - Popular-but-not-enthusiasm-generating within a party but hated by independents and the other party.
Candidate B - Less popular within a party but loved by independents and relatively well-liked by the other party.

In that hypothetical, Candidate B would be a better general election candidate but a worse primary candidate.

Too bad Candidate B is bad at convincing people to vote for him in elections.

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 6786

Posted
Posted

Are you saying Bernie is candidate B in your hypothetical? You think he’s relatively liked by Republicans? LOL

I know it’s anecdotal, but I work in a pretty heavy MAGA area in tarrant county. If you think Bernie had any chance of getting their vote, you’re insane. Biden was the one candidate I heard mentioned during the early primaries that had a shot of either gaining their vote (doubtful) or just convincing them to not vote at all. 

I liked Bernie too man. I think his message resonates more today than ever. But he just didn’t rally enough people to vote for him. Not much else to say about it. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45665

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Bernie's press secretary is handling things well. Signal boosting Tucker Carlson and giving credence to the "Biden is so mentally feeble that the DNC will replace him" meme. Well done guys.

 

Not just Tucker, but the Daily Fucking Caller, no less.

They really are just the left version of trumpkins.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
Just now, SubliminalHorn said:

Right. Who else could you be alluding to in your hypotheticals?! You’re just too smart for us, b_t

Those hypothetical candidates don't even fit Sanders and Biden.

It's not my fault you're obsessed with the same fight over and over about someone who isn't even running anymore.

What does "in a general sense" mean?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted

----------------
Candidate A - Popular-but-not-enthusiasm-generating within a party but hated by independents and the other party.
Candidate B - Less popular within a party but loved by independents and relatively well-liked by the other party.
----------------

If you think these are stand-ins for Biden and Sanders you're either genuinely stupid or just completely lost in the trolling game. Is Biden supposed to be the one "hated by independents"? Is Sanders supposed to be the one "relatively well liked" by the GOP?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18851

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

----------------
Candidate A - Popular-but-not-enthusiasm-generating within a party but hated by independents and the other party.
Candidate B - Less popular within a party but loved by independents and relatively well-liked by the other party.
----------------

If you think these are stand-ins for Biden and Sanders you're either genuinely stupid or just completely lost in the trolling game. Is Biden supposed to be the one "hated by independents"? Is Sanders supposed to be the one "relatively well liked" by the GOP?

Are you going to vote for Joe Biden?

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Brandywine

Brandywine 1316

Posted
Posted

The other party liked Bernie only because they knew Trump would landslide him. Just cram socialism down everyone’s throat and how it will destroy the American life we know and it’s an easy win. 23 Trillion for Medicare for all is a hard pill to swallow. But that was in a recent period when all things seemed normal.

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USMCHorn

USMCHorn 1369

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If he walks back saying he will veto M4A, yes.

If he sticks to saying he will veto M4A, no.

Lol this mf’er really thinks Biden would veto a M4A bill if Congress put it on his desk. Idgaf what Biden said in the past, no way in hell would he veto that bill.

Edited by USMCHorn
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lmao.  Hillary was up over 20% on Trump for 18-34 voters in March 2016.  

 

Snarky response: Oh no, what will we do without those 12 votes?!

Actual response: Care to site your source?  Just tried to verify and was unable to find whatever poll you were referencing.  All that being said, Clinton wins the electoral college by 100 if the election was held in March 2016.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted

A couple of things here...

1) I'm being asked to not take the candidate at his word. This is Trumpism. This is exactly how moderate Republicans talked themselves into Donald Trump. Take him seriously, but not literally. Assume the office itself will change him. Assume that political norms will supersede his words and history. I'm not going to do any of that. I will take Biden at his word.

2) Presidents and governors veto bills championed by their own parties all the time.

I will give you a scenario in which this happens: Grassroots pressure builds to support a measure that is broadly popular but hated by the donor class (and the moderate representatives themselves). In order to stay in the good graces of their activist supporters, the representative votes for the measure after being assured that the executive will veto the measure. The representative gets political cover from the executive. This is not uncommon, and political geniuses should already know this strategy.

stupid trolls desperately searching the hypothetical to figure out how it is secretly about Bernie Sanders

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5294

Posted
Posted (edited)

Monmouth poll of Biden +4 is actually a small improvement. They had him up 3 last month. And their 18-34 numbers just don't jibe with other recent polls. Quinnipiac out yesterday had Biden +12 with that age group.

YouGov/Economist more helpfully breaks down 18-29 and 30-44.  I'm in my mid-30's and have a lot more in common with someone in their 40's than a freaking college freshman.  Anyways, they showed:

18-29 Biden +8

30-44 Biden +19

Edited by Storm the Field
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

When was the last time a president did?

Don't know off-hand.

Do you have any kind of response to the rest of the post or are we doing a thing where we ignore everything to find a nit to pick?

2 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Monmouth poll of Biden +4 is actually a small improvement.

I think it will improve more with Bernie out. It's going to be interesting to see the realignment over the next 2-3 weeks.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Bernie's now former (thank god) press secretary is just going scorched earth now. Remember when other candidates were accused of using "right wing talking points"? 

Nothing in there is a "right-wing talking point".

"My opponent is mentally deficient." - This is not a right-wing talking point, this is just political attack that can come from any direction.
"My opponent loves big government spending and won't say how he'll pay for it." - This is a right-wing talking point because it comes from a position of right-wing politics.

Edited by bad_teammate
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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Snarky response: Oh no, what will we do without those 12 votes?!

Actual response: Care to site your source?  Just tried to verify and was unable to find whatever poll you were referencing.  All that being said, Clinton wins the electoral college by 100 if the election was held in March 2016.

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_032416.pdf/  

The election blew up in Clinton's face because the support of moderate Republicans she had been chasing melted away as the election approached.  Why would you not expect something similar to happen with Biden?  The Dems are using the exact same plan which failed so spectacularly four years ago, but I guess losing in this manner is preferable to the alternative.  

Edited by Fozzz
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fozzz said:

Why would you not expect something similar to happen with Biden?  The Dems are using the exact same plan which failed so spectacularly four years ago, but I guess losing in this manner is preferable to the alternative.  

 “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

Posted
Posted

A lot of my Bernie friends are having Facebook meltdowns and won’t stop calling Biden a rapist. So I got that going for me. 
 

I haven’t been paying attention these last few weeks (Virus has sucked the air out of the room). What are these allegations all about?   Has Biden used the virus as cover to release his inner Jack the Ripper? 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13192

Posted
Posted (edited)

Looks like Gen X is turning into the Baby Boomers they claim to hate.

3 minutes ago, Xian said:

A lot of my Bernie friends are having Facebook meltdowns and won’t stop calling Biden a rapist. So I got that going for me. 

I haven’t been paying attention these last few weeks (Virus has sucked the air out of the room). What are these allegations all about?   Has Biden used the virus as cover to release his inner Jack the Ripper? 

A woman who was one of his staffers in the 90s has alleged that he pushed her up against a wall and put his fingers in her vagina while propositioning her. She told multiple people about it at the time and went through sexual harassment channels in the Senate and was ignored. She has named names of the people she talked to, and they have either confirmed her telling them at the time or not commented.

Interview here with Tara Reade.

 

Edited by bad_teammate
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Take a look at the cross tabs. Biden leads Trump 58-34% amongst voters <45 yrs old.  

 

he’s also leading women voting by 30 points (in this poll). he’s outperforming hrc in most tabs snd hasn’t really gotten his post-bernie bump yet. 

expect the polls to trigger some crazier briefings/rallies in the coming days. 

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