2020 Democratic Nominee

[Fozzz 152]

17 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I mean when you look at the tweet with the tweet he quoted it’s pretty obvious he’s taking a shot at Warren.



And he’s getting well ratioed in the replies.

Even former Sanders aides think it’s a shitty tweet.

Get her ass, Bernie.  

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

The question was: Do you think Israel meets international standards of human rights? 

It was no more off-topic than Bernie’s answer, who as I understand it from my one black friend, is Jewish. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Yes, it is.

and by the way, that's ok.

if this is seen as "an attack" then holy shit the dems really do need to get tougher.

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Ok how is Pete's to the left of Bernie's?

He directly addressed the human rights question, and specifically mentioned Netanyahu's policy which he disagrees with. 

How about this BT, who had the best answer?  

Edited June 19, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Bama Chick 28596]

and by the way, that's ok.
if this is seen as "an attack" then holy shit the dems really do need to get tougher.

It’s not that people are reacting to a perceived “attack” - it’s the absolute whining and paranoia that oozes out of that messaging.

And to use Warren of all people when Joe Biden is sitting right there as an example of that message is so transparent.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

and by the way, that's ok.

if this is seen as "an attack" then holy shit the dems really do need to get tougher.

Sure, I don't have a problem with it.   The candidates should be drawing contrasts with each other, and it wasn't out of bounds. 

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

It was no more off-topic than Bernie’s answer, who as I understand it from my one black friend, is Jewish. 

Bernie's answer was weak as well, I agree. 

Gabbard literally tried to the answer the question with "Israel has challenges" and the reporter had to pry more out of her. She's running for President, right? 

[henrygandorf 29189]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Bernie's answer was weak as well, I agree. 

Gabbard literally tried to the answer the question with "Israel has challenges" and the reporter had to pry more out of her. She's running for President, right? 

[Pancho 44707]

 

[Fozzz 152]

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

His agenda is perceived as such a powerful threat to those interests that they are lining up behind Warren, someone they previously disliked but they see as less threatening than Bernie.

True or not?

I don’t know.  I can tell you why I prefer Warren over Sanders.  

Warren’s approach is more methodical and pragmatic.  She sees the same problems as Bernie but her solution isn’t rooted in vastly expanding the public sector through a “revolution”. 

If I were to reverse engineer Warren’s approach, it looks like she did her homework and identified the spots in the economy that are hurting working families the most (child care costs, education, student loans, predatory financial institutions).  Instead of nationalizing these areas (like Bernie would do), she plans to expand the private sector at the lower level with funding from the 1% while curbing the corrupt money influence on lawmakers and busting up the banks/big corporations with antitrust laws.  The ultimate goal is to reduce the cost burden on the lower and middle class. 

My beef with Bernie is he doesn’t adequately address the corruption issue as well as Warren and because of that his plans to expand the public sector are more vulnerable to being corruptly exploited.  It’s a basic vulnerability of socialism.  The power and money becomes centralized and concentrated within the state that all it takes is a few bad apples to rob everyone blind.  No bueno.  

Warren’s approach is to have more cops on the beat monitoring both the public and private sector to ensure a more level playing field for workers/entrepreneurs.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Where is the shot at Warren?

 

I agree. Bernie's post was criticizing corporate Dems, not Warren. 

But when you yell "fuck corporations!" and they yell back "fuck Bernie!", don't be surprised or offended. The cat's been out of the bag for years. What a stupid fucking tweet. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

It's hilarious watching the Bernie people suddenly switch gears from loving them some Liz and accusing anyone else who doesn't love Liz of being a centrist troll to melting down and going into attack mode on her now that she's a threat. Yesterday she was his anti-establishment protege and by far the 2nd best candidate and you were an idiot if you didn't agree. Today she's a magnet for corporatists and Republicans who are scared of Bernie and his 14% and shrinking coalition.

I mean of course it was predictable, but it's still fantastic theater.

Edited June 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[Fozzz 152]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

It's hilarious watching the Bernie people suddenly switch gears to loving them some Liz and accusing anyone else who doesn't love Liz of being a centrist troll to melting down and going into attack mode on her now that she's a threat. 

I mean of course it was predictable, but it's still fantastic theater.

I prefer market fundamentalist Liz to this HRC with a fresh coat of paint bullshit.

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Fozzz said:

I prefer market fundamentalist Liz to this HRC with a fresh coat of paint bullshit.

The only thing that has changed is her polling numbers. And Bernie's.

It's almost like the patronizing Warren support from Bernie Bros was never real.

[Fozzz 152]

This is so ridiculous and incoherent.  So she wasn't politically active as a 40 law professor, but she's always been in the "policy end"?  What?

https://twitter.com/zei_nabq/status/1141368084718129152

[henrygandorf 29189]

11 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Today she's a magnet for corporatists and Republicans who are scared of Bernie and his 14% and shrinking coalition.

I mean of course it was predictable, but it's still fantastic theater.

fixed.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

fixed.

The timing of that sequence was better than I could have ever imagined.

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

I can't get over what a disastrous tweet that was for Bernie. People who like Warren are pissed. Bernie needs Warren supporters if she drastically falls in the polls for some reason. 

I know social media does not generally speak for the electorate, but Bernie's campaign and progressive followers have the strongest presence on Twitter. It will be a big part of his success or downfall.

He really should tweet out a clarification. What a shitshow. 

 

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13191]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

It's hilarious watching the Bernie people suddenly switch gears from loving them some Liz and accusing anyone else who doesn't love Liz of being a centrist troll to melting down and going into attack mode on her now that she's a threat.

"attack mode"

lol

Quote

Yesterday she was his anti-establishment protege and by far the 2nd best candidate and you were an idiot if you didn't agree. Today she's a magnet for corporatists and Republicans who are scared of Bernie and his 14% and shrinking coalition.

She is still by far the 2nd best candidate and you are an idiot if you don't agree. Just as was true 6 months ago and will be true 6 months from today.

Right now she actually IS a magnet for corporatists and Republicans, not because she's turned evil, but because corporatists and Republicans are openly saying, "We would rather have anyone than Bernie, so we're open to Liz now."

Seriously, look at my posting in this thread from the first to today. Bernie #1, Liz #2. It's been that way since 2016 for me.

"attack mode"

You guys are fucking babies.

Edited June 19, 2019 by bad_teammate

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

"attack mode"

lol

She is still by far the 2nd best candidate and you are an idiot if you don't agree. Just as was true 6 months ago and will be true 6 months from today.

Right now she actually IS a magnet for corporatists and Republicans, not because she's turned evil, but because corporatists and Republicans are openly saying, "We would rather have anyone than Bernie, so we're open to Liz now."

Seriously, look at my posting in this thread from the first to today. Bernie #1, Liz #2. It's been that way since 2016 for me.

"attack mode"

You guys are fucking babies.

lol

[bad_teammate 13191]

Read the article the Tweet links.

Third Way, which isn’t backing a candidate, famously torpedoed Warren in a widely read 2013 op-ed that exposed the party’s ideological fissures on entitlements. “Nothing would be more disastrous for Democrats” than to adhere to Warren’s brand of economic populism, wrote two of the think tank’s leaders in a piece that drew condemnation from progressives.

Today, however, Third Way is learning to live with Warren even as it embarks on a mission to ensure the Democratic nominee doesn’t stray too far to the left.

Jim Kessler, one of the authors of the 2013 piece warning that Warren would lead the party off the populist cliff, raved about the senator’s performance last weekend at the Black Economic Alliance candidate forum in South Carolina.

“Elizabeth Warren kills it at @BlkEconAlliance candidate forum. Love her entrepreneurship fund,” the Third Way co-founder tweeted Saturday.

“I don’t agree with 'Medicare for All.' I don’t agree with free college, … [But] her consumer protection policies are great. I think she has a good infrastructure plan,” said self-described moderate Democrat Reagan Gray, a health care policy and political consultant attending the Third Way conference. “I absolutely know and believe people are taking a second look at her. She now seems to be getting herself away from the Bernie Sanders grouping. People are taking a second look at her and saying, ‘Hmm. Some of her policies are good. Maybe she isn’t like Bernie.’”

 

[bad_teammate 13191]

Just now, BradInATX said:

lol

How much has your ranking list changed from January to today?

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

How much has your ranking list changed from January to today?

I can't say I have rankings yet. I think I posted my "top 3" on another thread, but I didn't put much thought into it. Right now, and for the next 8 months or so, I'll figure out who gets through the following filters:

- Are you a piece of shit?

- Do you present significant risk of four more years of Trump?

Once I figure out who is through those two, I'll rank my candidates and pick the highest one that is an actual serious contender. If Warren gets past the "significant risk" filter, she could end up getting my vote. But I'm not sure she'll be able to convince me that Trump won't rip her apart. We'll see.

Edited June 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13191]

32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I can't say I have rankings yet. I think I posted my "top 3" on another thread, but I didn't put much thought into it. 

What the fuck are you even doing in these threads? What a profound waste of time to be this deep into it without even being able to come to some conclusions.

32 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Bernie is awesome.

[bad_teammate 13191]

All right enough of this

Let's all hoot and holler for Cory Booker

 

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What the fuck are you even doing in these threads? What a profound waste of time to be this deep into it without even being able to come to some conclusions.

You think taking a measured approach of learning as much as I can about each candidate prior to jumping in and becoming a cartoonish politics-as-a-sport fanboy is the wrong approach?

Well, of course you do.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Great response from Booker. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[bad_teammate 13191]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You think taking a measured approach of learning as much as I can about each candidate prior to jumping in and becoming a cartoonish politics-as-a-sport fanboy is the wrong approach?

Prior to? Read your posts. You bring all of the drama with absolutely none of the policy or issue talk. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Prior to? Read your posts. You bring all of the drama with absolutely none of the policy or issue talk. 

lol.

[Skipper 6127]

5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Great response from Booker. 

I mean I guess.  Biden made (yet another) dumb comment but pretty obvious no malice.  I don't think anyone would actually claim Biden is in any way racist.   But the left LOVES to out-outrage each other at every opportunity. Maybe that helps with the lefty twitter crowd but the constant race to who can be the first to explain how offended they are is one of the reasons Trump will blow out anyone other than Biden. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26436]

Great response from Booker. 

It doesn’t matter, he’s not getting traction. He hasn’t articulated a rationale for his candidacy that hangs.

[Js1 85275]

Best reaction came from non-candidate Sherrod Brown's wife..

 

[henrygandorf 29189]

12 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I mean I guess.  Biden made (yet another) dumb comment but pretty obvious no malice.  I don't think anyone would actually claim Biden is in any way racist. 

the problem isn't that biden made a choice to be 'non-malicious'.  the problem is that biden doesn't know the difference.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Is Biden trying to blow it? 

[henrygandorf 29189]

14 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Maybe that helps with the lefty twitter crowd but the constant race to who can be the first to explain how offended they are is one of the reasons Trump will blow out anyone other than Biden. 

also no.  not only is there no evidence to support what you're saying, but there is plenty of evidence already out there to support the exact opposite.

this needs to be the narrative that everyone on the left (or center) needs to be attacking right now.

[Hank Kingsley 20905]

Biden is just being Biden. An always shitty candidate being shitty. 

 

[bad_teammate 13191]

Noted leftist...

Cory Booker hahaha

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Biden is just being Biden. An always shitty candidate being shitty. 

 

biden isn't sexist, he just comments on physical appearance when addressing any woman.

biden isn't sexually inappropriate, he just feels and gropes women (and girls) in an uncomfortable and inappropriate way.

biden isn't racist, he just makes racist remarks, or aligns himself with others that are racists.

biden isn't out of touch, he's just really fucking ridiculously extremely out of touch.

biden isn't a bad guy, he's just not suitable to be our next president.  especially considering the alternatives right in front of us.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

19 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I mean I guess.  Biden made (yet another) dumb comment but pretty obvious no malice.  I don't think anyone would actually claim Biden is in any way racist.   But the left LOVES to out-outrage each other at every opportunity. Maybe that helps with the lefty twitter crowd but the constant race to who can be the first to explain how offended they are is one of the reasons Trump will blow out anyone other than Biden. 

The problem isn't malice, but rather cluelessness on an issue that is very important for the left.   And the response here is quite measured and not at all "out-outraging" anyone. And get a grip, Trump isn't blowing out anyone. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Also I love the "OMG the left is an outrage machine" hot take in the midst of another GOP outrage meltdown over an accurate statement by AOC.   The right is perpetually in outrage mode.  Trump's speech last night was a litany of perceived outrages against Dems.   Oh but Dems shake their heads at out-of-touch Joe and it's OUTRAGE !!! 

[Bozo_Casanova 26436]

It’s like y’all completely missed 2016.

[RomaVicta 29902]

Is the argument that Warren's period as a GOP proves that she doesn't mean any of the Democratic positions she takes today?  I've got to say that I don't care that she voted for Reagan and the first Bush. There were good things that the GOP claimed to stand for back in those days. I didn't believe them, but a lot of smart people did.

Reagan was a Democrat. Goldwater would hate the GOP now. Southern Dems turned GOP over civil rights. Contexts change.

We seem so anxious to focus on the small picture. Warren's big picture is what matters to me. 

Bernie makes an impolitic statement that arguably reflects his frankness. Small picture. Who cares?

The GOP hate engine has a lot of targets these days. It must be a relief. I don't follow elections very closely because this kind of shit is so fucking tedious.

Somebody went to the wrong church. Somebody signed a petition to get a commie on a ballot. Somebody was present at a flag burning. blahblahblahblahblah.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump was also a democrat that donated to Hillary 

[Js1 85275]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump was also a democrat that donated to Hillary 

That was Donald the Democrat.

Not Donald the Jesus-loving, flag humping, lib roasting, defender of freedom Republican version. 

[bad_teammate 13191]

53 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Is the argument that Warren's period as a GOP proves that she doesn't mean any of the Democratic positions she takes today?

It depends on who you ask, of course.

For me, the fact that she's very new to progressive politics means not that she's insincere, but that she's not as reliable in a tough situation as someone with a more solid and deep left grounding is.

As a for instance...

Let's say we're wrestling with climate change and our public/private partnerships aren't working (which they don't and won't) and our taxpayer giveaways to the rich (sorry, our, uh... "strategic investments") aren't motivating energy producers to clean up. We're trying some incremental things and there are holdups and gridlock. Where does she go? Does she try to whip up a national popular movement to nationalize the energy grid to demand the necessary regulations and implementations to literally save the planet? Is it even in her conception that we would actually fight capital with the planet at stake?

Would it even occur to her to, in the midst of a national banking crisis, say, "We are not going to bail you out" or "If we bail you out with the taxpayer dollar, we will become the new owners"?

I don't really know with Liz. I trust her heart, and I think she cares about working people and is genuinely angry at how the working classes are treated. (As Alexander Cockburn asked, "Is your hate pure?") I also think she's very smart. But my politics are very leftist (for America), and insofar as she has adopted leftist politics (as opposed to merely anti-corruption capitalist, which are not the same thing) it's fairly recent.

But I've liked her for a long time, so I'm willing to trust a lot with her. In the early 2000s she publicly dunked on Hillary for Hillary's support of a terrible bankruptcy bill and that just warmed the cockles of my black little heart. So I'm fine with overlooking the whole Native American thing (even though it's embarrassing and lame) and I'm even fine with her being a Republican in Willie Horton times.

I think she would be a better president than basically we've had in anyone's living memory. I would be very happy to vote for her. I would volunteer for her and raise/donate money.

Quote

There were good things that the GOP claimed to stand for back in those days.

What were those "good things" the 70s/80s/90s GOP claimed to stand for?

Environmental protection? Civil rights? Economic rights? Criminal justice reform? LGBT rights? Sane military policy? What?

Nothing. I'm willing to forgive Liz her allegiance to the GOP for half+ her life, but let's not rewrite history. She absolutely should not have been a Republican at that time. Let's not whitewash it. Nope. They were fucking godawful them, and many of us hated them (rightfully) at the time.

I think Liz has done some of the necessary soul-searching, but based on her Breakfast Club performance, I don't think she's done all of it (or it hasn't fully taken). Her saying that she wasn't really following politics as a late-30s law professor is complete bullshit. Don't piss on my back and say it's rain, Liz. I'll forgive you for it, but I'm not going to say it's rain.

[EuroHorn 3252]

It’s going to be the battle of the socialist millionaires.  Warren, Biden, Beto, Sanders, Harris

you gotta love it...

 

.  

Edited June 20, 2019 by EuroHorn

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

When voters find out that Lincoln was a Republican the Democrats are in real trouble.