2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Pete feels like an afterthought at this point.  Raised a lot of money and...…………?

Hiring a lot more staff in early states? Building a bigger team?  He's polling well in Iowa and NH

Look, he is a clear underdog as he won't win shit without POC.  But the fundraising money is real.  National polling this far out? Less meaningful IMO. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

God that interview was awful.    Hope that was just an off day, but there's a reason why her campaign has been lackluster apart from the Biden thing. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

32 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Oof, this Kamala interview with CNN. Watch what happens when she's not the one asking questions. 

She has absolutely no clue what she's talking about re: healthcare. 

 

I’m not sure if she’s clueless or just doesn’t want to get into the weeds because it’s treacherous territory.   Either way, I don’t believe she could pull off MFA because it doesn’t look like her heart is in it. 

When reports start asking questions about “muh how are you going to pay for it?!?” and start throwing out these artificially inflated numbers, they’re not operating in good faith. 

It gets really complicated at that point and it’s not easily explainable in a CNN soundbite.

For example, most cost estimates are based off what we are currently paying for healthcare which is astronomically more expensive than anywhere else in the world.  The reason it’s so expensive is because the private sector owns the lawmakers that allow them to exploit the population and drain their savings accounts as they get sick and die.  It’s an immoral and predatory setup of an industry. 

A single payer/MFA system removes the profit motive and should significantly brings down the cost per person of healthcare.  The European cost levels per person are well below half of what we’re paying now and they are getting better quality of healthcare. 

[horncyclist 1386]

She failed the bar exam on first attempt. That happens but not to anyone, barring some personal issue, who is (1) halfway intelligent and (2) takes it halfway seriously. I think it was (2) in her case but her willingness to be overconfident and rely on her rhetorical talent is probably what's hurting her in these interviews. I don't want that person to be the nominee.

Edited July 18, 2019 by horncyclist

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not sure if she’s clueless or just doesn’t want to get into the weeds because it’s treacherous territory.   Either way, I don’t believe she could pull off MFA because it doesn’t look like her heart is in it. 

When reports start asking questions about “muh how are you going to pay for it?!?” and start throwing out these artificially inflated numbers, they’re not operating in good faith. 

It gets really complicated at that point and it’s not easily explainable in a CNN soundbite.

For example, most cost estimates are based off what we are currently paying for healthcare which is astronomically more expensive than anywhere else in the world.  The reason it’s so expensive is because the private sector owns the lawmakers that allow them to exploit the population and drain their savings accounts as they get sick and die.  It’s an immoral and predatory setup of an industry. 

A single payer/MFA system removes the profit motive and should significantly brings down the cost per person of healthcare.  The European cost levels per person are well below half of what we’re paying now and they are getting better quality of healthcare. 

There was absolutely nothing wrong with line of questioning from the CNN interviewer. Pretty standard questions. Treacherous territory? She's campaigning on Medicare For all with no middle class tax hike. You have to be able to answer for that, period. 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There was absolutely nothing wrong with line of questioning from the CNN interviewer. Pretty standard questions. Treacherous territory? She's campaigning on Medicare For all with no middle class tax hike. You have to be able to answer for that, period. 

I wasn’t making excuses for her.  I was noting how the media frames these questions to play to the fears of voters.  Those fears have been flamed by decades of scare tactics, propaganda, and misleading information. Most of it comes from the health insurance industry and the elected officials they’ve bought off.

However, she should be able to handle bad faith questions much better than she did.  That was pretty terrible.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

23 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wasn’t making excuses for her.  I was noting how the media frames these questions to play to the fears of voters.  Those fears have been flamed by decades of scare tactics, propaganda, and misleading information. Most of it comes from the health insurance industry and the elected officials they’ve bought off.

However, she should be able to handle bad faith questions much better than she did.  That was pretty terrible.

These are bad faith questions? 

"What happens to the 150 million people with private insurance under President Harris?"

"How long will this transition take?"

"All of this done without a middle class tax hike?"

"Is this an elimination of Obamacare?"

Those are simple, direct questions that are easily digestible and understandable to people watching.  What strikes fear into voters is when you can't answer them. Those are all layups for Bernie (though Bernie does believe the middle class needs to be taxed but has a good explanation for it). She clearly doesn't understand what she's selling. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[NowThis 931]

51 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Lol.  I guess I will give her “credit” by now assuming she’s not a stone cold liar as much as an idiot who just has no clue about why her healthcare claims constantly are contradictory. She’s so confused in that interview that it must be genuine unless she’s Meryl Streep.  Fucking Rick Perry of the Democrats.

no one will ever approach Rick Perry levels of dumb, but her  'belligerent tough lady' act with little technical knowledge is wearing thin.  Of the Dems, the brainy ones are Pete, Liz, Bernie and I'd throw in Booker. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by NowThis

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

26 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

These are bad faith questions? 

"What happens to the 150 million people with private insurance under President Harris?"

"How long will this transition take?"

"All of this done without a middle class tax hike?"

"Is this an elimination of Obamacare?"

Those are simple, direct questions that are easily digestible and understandable to people watching.  What scares voters is when you can't answer them. Those are all layups for Bernie. She clearly doesn't understand what she's selling. 

 

 

She threw out a BS $80 trillion number in there when Harris said no middle class tax hike.

Again, FFS, the media asks the worst questions when it comes to healthcare.  Are they common questions?  Yes.  Why are they common questions? Because the public has bombarded with bullshit for decades to make them worried about things like “cost” when the American public is already collectively paying more per person than any other country on the planet.  

The questions about healthcare should be like “Why the fuck are we getting raped on healthcare?  What is the best solution to stop getting financially raped right now?”

Harris sucked here but my commentary about the media has nothing to do with her in this instance.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The questions about healthcare should be like “Why the fuck are we getting raped right now on healthcare?  What is the best solution to stop getting financially raped right now?”

Seriously? Kamala is running for POTUS and is touting her healthcare plan on the stump. We have an upcoming primary and she's trying to get our vote.

The questions above should be asked in a round table discussion with healthcare experts. 

 

[Js1 85109]

She better have some answers next week or she's going to get crushed in Debate #2.  Especially if Bernie or Warren is on stage with her.  

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

If I’m going to pick a candidate that doesn’t know policy, I’ll just stick with Beto. 

Getting pretty close to joining team Liz. 

[TexArcher 37508]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Lol.  I guess I will give her “credit” by now assuming she’s not a stone cold liar as much as an idiot who just has no clue about why her healthcare claims constantly are contradictory. She’s so confused in that interview that it must be genuine unless she’s Meryl Streep.  Fucking Rick Perry of the Democrats.

That's a bit much.  Kamala needs to figure out the nuts and bolts of this issue, and quickly, and start talking about how she'll do things.  But it would take a couple of traumatic head injuries for her to sound as stupid as Rick Perry.

It's not uncommon for a candidate to not have everything figured out 16 months before the election.  Like her or not, she's pretty far from being an idiot.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

10 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Seriously? Kamala is running for POTUS and is touting her healthcare plan on the stump. We have an upcoming primary and she's trying to get our vote.

The questions above should be asked in a round table discussion with healthcare experts. 

Why do you keep assuming I'm defending Kamala?  Her performance was awful in that interview but it doesn't excuse the way the media approaches the topic of healthcare.   It's as if the questions are coming directly from the health insurance companies and the people that stand to profit from keeping an malicious and exploitative system in place.  Kamala needs to do better,  a lot better.   The media needs to do better as well.  

[NowThis 931]

22 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Seriously? Kamala is running for POTUS and is touting her healthcare plan on the stump. We have an upcoming primary and she's trying to get our vote.

The questions above should be asked in a round table discussion with healthcare experts. 

 

would be cool if a healthcare expert ran for POTUS

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Why do you keep assuming I'm defending Kamala?  Her performance was awful in that interview but it doesn't excuse the way the media approaches the topic of healthcare.   It's as if the questions are coming directly from the health insurance companies and the people that stand to profit from keeping an malicious and exploitative system in place.  Kamala needs to do better,  a lot better.   The media needs to do better as well.  

All I'm saying is in this particular case, the media did nothing wrong. In fact, I think the interviewer did an excellent job. 

Let's not fall back on blaming the media if a Democratic candidate shows their ass trying to answer direct, genuine questions.  

 

[Zavala 1384]

The canidate gonna have to choose sides with the in-party battle. Where does each stand? 

Squad or party? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

All I'm saying is in this particular case, the media did nothing wrong. In fact, I think the interviewer did an excellent job. 

Let's not fall back on blaming the media if a Democratic candidate shows their ass trying to answer direct, genuine questions.  

The media needs as much, if not more, scrutiny as the candidates this time around.  2016 kinda proves this. 

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

Agreed. But that has absolutely nothing to do with this Kamala interview. 

 

[David Dennison 18656]

1 hour ago, horncyclist said:

She failed the bar exam on first attempt. That happens but not to anyone, barring some personal issue, who is (1) halfway intelligent and (2) takes it halfway seriously. I think it was (2) in her case but her willingness to be overconfident and rely on her rhetorical talent is probably what's hurting her in these interviews. I don't want that person to be the nominee.

This is not true. I know complete morons who passed the bar exam their first try. I know incredibly smart people who failed their first try. The bar exam is indicative of nothing.

[horncyclist 1386]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is not true. I know complete morons who passed the bar exam their first try. I know incredibly smart people who failed their first try. The bar exam is indicative of nothing.

That wasn't my experience. Everyone my year that failed it was very much "yeah, that makes sense" for one of those two reasons. Anyway, agree it doesn't matter much. Just noting a possible explanation for her seeming lack of preparation.

 

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Just now, horncyclist said:

That wasn't my experience. Everyone my year that failed it was very much "yeah, that makes sense" for one of those two reasons. Anyway, agree it doesn't matter much. Just noting a possible explanation for her seeming lack of preparation.

 

Ah yes, the famously easy California bar exam. Only a fucking moron couldn't pass that. I mean, just look at the, uh, 48% pass rate. 

[Dbeasy 14967]

Ah yes, the famously easy California bar exam. Only a fucking moron couldn't pass that. I mean, just look at the, uh, 48% pass rate. 

Yes but only morons are taking the exam.

[Js1 85109]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Ah yes, the famously easy California bar exam. Only a fucking moron couldn't pass that. I mean, just look at the, uh, 48% pass rate. 

I glossed over that because I'm stuck at 

Quote

willingness to be overconfident and rely on rhetorical talent is probably what's hurting her in these interviews. I don't want that person to be the nominee.

from a Beto supporter. 

[David Dennison 18656]

The greatest president of the 20th century failed the bar exam.

Just sayin'.

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The greatest president of the 20th century failed the bar exam.

Just sayin'.

I don't recall George H.W. Bush failing the bar exam. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Hank Scorpio
20th century!

[henrygandorf 29175]

7 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Ah yes, the famously easy California bar exam. Only a fucking moron couldn't pass that. I mean, just look at the, uh, 48% pass rate. 

please do not underestimate our total moron count.

[henrygandorf 29175]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I don't recall George W. Bush failing the bar exam. 

there's a lot to like with this response.

[henrygandorf 29175]

anderson cooper is hosting the live drawing for debate assignments, starting right now on cnn.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

This is kind of gross by CNN.

It’s like the fucking hunger games or some shit.

[henrygandorf 29175]

it's also gonna take every bit of the hour.  jesus.

[Js1 85109]

Just post it when it’s done 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Imagine being Gillibrand, a US Senator from NY, being pulled out of the hat right after the magic crystals lady.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Still waiting on final draw.  Night 1 has Pete and Beto with a bunch of centrists...and crystal lady

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Bernie and Liz night 1

Biden and Harris night 2

 

[henrygandorf 29175]

bernie vs liz.

biden and kamala rematch.

let's go.

[Js1 85109]

Harris will be happy. Her healthcare flubs would get carved up by Bernie or Liz. Biden’s dumbass will get fucked

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Biden got hosed with this draw.  All the people of color up there with him and some real shit throwers like DeBlasio, Castro, and Harris.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[UTDD 362]

9 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Ah yes, the famously easy California bar exam. Only a fucking moron couldn't pass that. I mean, just look at the, uh, 48% pass rate. 

To be fair, there are a LOT of idiots (ok idiots is harsh but I would say maybe law isn't their best career choice at this point) taking the CA Bar Exam from very low tier law schools that to me are committing against these kids almost highway robbery at gunpoint for their tuition frankly...

[bad_teammate 13132]

Biden is fucked regardless. The other 3 in the top 4 have all shoved knives into him over the years.

Bernie and Liz are not going to fight. Let me go ahead and spoiler that shit for you right away. I know some of you have serious brainworms when it comes to Bernie so you want to imagine your newest infatuation owning him with logic and plans, but these two have been strong allies for a long time and will not be trying to hurt each other. They are the two best and they know it. They know that to fix this country they need to be a team.

If you're looking for Night 1 drama, look for Delaney, Hickenlooper, and Klobuchar go after Bernie or Liz (probably Bernie).

The unfortunate reality is that it will suck and be largely useless and boring.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

CNN is going to make night 1 a train wreck.  Might as well call it the “Red Scare” night as all the jokers like Delaney and Hickenlooper will be crying about the ills of socialism and saying how we need a centrist to defeat Trump.  

Hopefully Liz and Bernie can work together to destroy that weak ass shit, I know both of them have the chops to do it persuasively. 

Pete and Beto desperately need to stand out but it’s going to be a challenge .  They needed Biden on that stage.  

Night two is going to be a disaster.  I’d say Castro and Harris have potential to gain ground.  They’re going to need a body bag for Biden. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Js1 85109]

Booker too. Biden is going to get dragged out of there like a United Airlines passenger 

[Message Board User 12389]

Booker, who has no chance at winning the nomination, is going to try too hard and insist upon himself and attack Biden relentlessly to try to make himself seem relevant, to Harris' benefit.

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

I don't really see much drama unfolding on Night 1. Beto and Buttigieg need to have good night, but I don't think they do it by going after another candidate. Bernie and Liz will be cordial. Agree with Hugo that Hickenlooper and Delaney might try to make noise and attack Bernie. 

Night 2 will be an absolute shit show.  Harris will not walk away unscathed. Someone will call her out on M4A double talk. 

I really hope the low polling candidates that end up having a shitty debate drop out quickly. 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Js1 85109]

23 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I don't really see much drama unfolding on Night 1. Beto and Buttigieg need to have good night, but I don't think they do it by going after another candidate. Bernie and Liz will be cordial. Agree with Hugo that Hickenlooper and Delaney might try to make noise and attack Bernie. 

Night 2 will be an absolute shit show.  Harris will not walk away unscathed. Someone will call her out on M4A double talk. 

I really hope the low polling candidates that end up having a shitty debate drop out quickly. 

 

 

 

Correct - Hickenlooper is going to double down on his "boo socialism bad!" to attack Bernie.

Harris will not get bloodied by Biden - he's been basically using GOP talking points on healthcare for weeks now, he's ripe for attacks on it.  Someone else will try and go after her (Castro?).  This is still Joe Biden so he will try and fuck it up badly.  He can't help himself.  He probably still won't be prepared to get hit on 2 different sides by Booker and Harris. 

Also

Night 1 - Mayo

Night 2 - Spice

All the candidates of color somehow ended up in one night. SOMEHOW. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Js1

[Js1 85109]

Oh and Tulsi will try to get a lick in with Harris.  It will go poorly.  I hope she goes all "She should not be up here.  She's at 1%. How did she get on this stage?" 

[henrygandorf 29175]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I really hope the low polling candidates that end up having a shitty debate drop out quickly. 

well the threshold goes up after detroit.  there are only 6 candidates qualified for the third debate i think right now.  part of it is polling at 2% or higher in 4 different polls (if i remember right).  that will eliminate a bunch of people.  whether that means they actually drop out officially, who knows.  but they should.

i agree that biden is in a bad situation and night 2 will be a mess.  but lost in all of the kamala busing drama is the fact that biden was having a miserable debate even outside of that.  other than his position on the stage, nothing about his optics made viewers think he was the "frontrunner".

the only potential fireworks on night one will come from liz and bernie defending their shared turf.  i worry a little that beto will try a little too hard to have a "moment" and that type of desperation shows.

for those unaware, debate part 3 is in houston sept 12/13 on abc.

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

Beto's performance will be really interesting. Don't see anyone in that group going after him.  This seems like it will be a make or break moment for him. 

I'd be surprised if he throws shade at another candidate, but obviously if he does it will be towards Buttigieg. 

 

[Hawndoh 2382]

He could barely bring himself to go on any sort of attack against Cruz. He isn't going to suddenly get all cutthroat up there.

[Hank Kingsley 20696]

I agree, as it would be wildly out of character. But he has to make a move, and I don't know how he does it by focusing on his policy/ideas with Bernie and Warren on the same stage. We'll see.