2020 Democratic Nominee

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3872]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What a joke.  Yeah, let’s elect a Republican-lite President like Biden because a senate seat would be lost for a few months. 

Seems real dumb, and not really supported.  The honeymoon period is just one reason things are more easily passed then.  The other is that presidents lead with their winners.  Just do other shit for 3 months. 

[Pancho 46309]

 

[Js1 87182]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What a joke.  Yeah, let’s elect a Republican-lite President like Biden because a senate seat would be lost for a few months. 

That's not at all what the solution is.  Calm down, Nancy, and change your tampon. 

However, it should be a *concern* because winning back the Senate is hard enough task for 2020.  Do you REALLY want to accomplish it, but then give Mitch another 3+ months to stall your first 100 day agenda, stall your Cabinet appointees, stall a potential SCOTUS nominee and have to deal with the uncertainty of one or more Special Elections (Scott Brown says hi!) in a 50/50 Senate? 

Hell, a 50/50 Senate would already be hard enough with Joe Manchin being the key vote for everything.  

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

What major legislation has a president passed in the first 3 months that couldn't have been passed later?  Obamacare wasn't.   Either was the Trump tax scam.  The first 3 months is executive action and maybe some layups in Congress that can wait a few months.   Real legislation takes more time than that. 

[Js1 87182]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

What major legislation has a president passed in the first 3 months that couldn't have been passed later?  Obamacare wasn't.   Either was the Trump tax scam.  The first 3 months is executive action and maybe some layups in Congress that can wait a few months.   Real legislation takes more time than that. 

So a 51/49 GOP Senate is going to just hand President Warren every Cabinet nominee she wants?  You'd have 3 months of disgusting, dirty hearings, tactics, stalls and votes.  We know that the Democrats are constantly stupid enough to roll over and confirm appointees.  The Republicans won't. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

So a 51/49 GOP Senate is going to just hand President Warren every Cabinet nominee she wants?  You'd have 3 months of disgusting, dirty hearings, tactics, stalls and votes.  We know that the Democrats are constantly stupid enough to roll over and confirm appointees.  The Republicans won't. 

No, clearly no major legislation would pass for 3 months.  Dems would be working on the bills in the House and wait until 3 months is up to vote in the Senate.   Big deal.

If McConnell wants to stall cabinet appointments (not sure why he'd waste political capital on that), Warren's cabinet is stocked with Acting secretaries for 3 months like virtually all of Trump's.  Again, big deal. 

No new judges for 3 months.  Big deal.  Ram them through in month 4.

[Js1 87182]

Not saying don't vote for Liz or Bernie.  I'm saying it's something to think about.  Same thing with picking a Veep.

[SimonBolivar 11064]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Not saying don't vote for Liz or Bernie.  I'm saying it's something to think about.  Same thing with picking a Veep.

Pete for Veep after he bows out. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, Js1 said:

So a 51/49 GOP Senate is going to just hand President Warren every Cabinet nominee she wants?  You'd have 3 months of disgusting, dirty hearings, tactics, stalls and votes.  We know that the Democrats are constantly stupid enough to roll over and confirm appointees.  The Republicans won't. 

It depends on the dynamics of the electorate at the time.  We have no idea how badly Trump might lose.  The bottom line is we need the absolute BEST leader in the White House after Trump, even if it means sacrificing a Senate seat for a few months.   Getting legislation passed will only be one of the many Trump messes the next administration is going to have to clean up.  The Senate is important but the leadership at the executive branch will be more influential.  Moreover, Warren, and Bernie for that matter, are the kind of people that will raise fucking hell if the Republicans give them shit.  Neither one of them are going to go soft on the GOP because of bullshit like "protecting moderate house seats". 

I'm more concerned about a Biden, Buttigieg, or Kamala 3-D chessing themselves into doing absolutely jack shit.   

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Gonna be some fireworks at the debates...

 

[Js1 87182]

Tulsi trying hard to be relevant.

[bad_teammate 13524]

Vermont has a gubenatorial election in 2020, so if the wave is big enough, it won't matter for Bernie.

Still doesn't matter overall, though. Liz is worth it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Tulsi trying hard to be relevant.

My least favorite of the troll candidates. 

[Js1 87182]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Vermont has a gubenatorial election in 2020, so if the wave is big enough, it won't matter for Bernie.

Still doesn't matter overall, though. Liz is worth it.

Vermont (like New Hampshire and Massachusetts and Maryland) has an extraordinarily popular GOP governor in a blue state.   These are the 4 most popular governors in America.  I mean, all of them at 60% or higher.

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

 

[bad_teammate 13524]

Idiot Dems are going to have to fight the insurance industry to get a worse policy.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Idiot Dems are going to have to fight the insurance industry to get a worse policy.

Anything short of a single payer/MFA system will always be something the Republicans can chip away at and use for campaign fodder. 

You go all in on medicare for all and it will never be in jeopardy.  

The biggest lesson from Obamacare is half measures will always be vulnerable to sabotage.  

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Anything short of a single payer/MFA system will always be something the Republicans can chip away at and use for campaign fodder. 

You go all in on medicare for all and it will never be in jeopardy.  

The biggest lesson from Obamacare is half measures will always be vulnerable to sabotage.  

I'm betting Warren will backtrack on Bernie's M4A plan. It's coming. 

 

[henrygandorf 29225]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

This is our concern, dude 

 

if a sentence starts with "if warren or sanders was elected president..." then i don't really give a shit how the sentence ends.

give me the first part, and we'll figure out the rest.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I'm betting Warren will backtrack on Bernie's M4A plan. It's coming. 

 

What makes you say that?  Warren's view on healthcare comes from the same place as Bernie's.  It's a moral issue for both of them. 

Warren views the current US market for healthcare as a complete failure and outright theft of the American people. 

I think Warren is letting Bernie drive the healthcare debate because that is HIS #1 issue, he's really good at selling it, and it gives Warren room to focus on the other issues without dust-ups with Bernie. 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What makes you say that?  Warren's view on healthcare comes from the same place as Bernie's.  It's a moral issue for both of them. 

Warren views the current US market for healthcare as a complete failure and outright theft of the American people. 

I think Warren is letting Bernie drive the healthcare debate because that is HIS #1 issue, he's really good at selling it, and it gives Warren room to focus on the other issues without dust-ups with Bernie. 

At the last debate Warren said "I'm with Bernie on Medicare For All". Outside of that she hasn't said much. For as much detailed policy plans she's introduced, she's extremely vague on on healthcare. 

I've seen no indication that she's willing to draw a line in the sand like Bernie.  She's setting herself up for a more moderate position. 

 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

I predict that Warren will end up with "I'm for M4A with a transition period of Medicare opt-in."

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

I predict that Warren will end up with "I'm for M4A with a transition period of Medicare opt-in."

Are you saying something similar to Buttigieg's "Medicare For All Who Want It"?  Where there is a public option with thought/hope it will eventually get us to single payer? 

Or that she would fully propose a single-payer system with just a longer transition period?

 

[6th Street 6692]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

MFA has only 41% support yet Sanders keeps trying to make a centerpiece of his campaign. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Are you saying something similar to Buttigieg's "Medicare For All Who Want It"?  Where there is a public option with thought/hope it will eventually get us to single payer? 

Or that she would fully propose a single-payer system with just a longer transition period?

 

I'm guessing the latter.   It's what I would suggest if I were running her campaign.   It allows her to be for single payer and have an actual plan to get there, which will be good enough for the left, but also to ease the minds of people who are scared of change, which will be good enough for the moderates.  

But what do I know.  Just spitballing. 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Bernie believes in M4A. Maybe it's not good strategy, but it comes in good faith. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

I'm guessing the latter.   It's what I would suggest if I were running her campaign.   It allows her to be for single payer and have an actual plan to get there, which will be good enough for the left, but also to ease the minds of people who are scared of change, which will be good enough for the moderates.  

But what do I know.  Just spitballing. 

You might be right, but I don't think she'll be willing to go that far. That plan would still be an end to private healthcare plans for medically necessary issues. Might as well go all-in with Bernie at that point. 

My guess is she'll lean in more with giving people options. Which is completely fine, outside of the fact that she publicly stated in a debate that she's for Bernie's M4A plan. 

 

[henrygandorf 29225]

there is no thanos finger-snap m4a scenario.

anything proposed from bernie to kamala will include some sort of transition period and private insurance won't just instantly disappear.

the r's will attempt to scare the shit out of voters by telling them "if bernie gets elected you'll get kicked off your employer insurance tomorrow and you and your 3 kids are fucked".  voters are dumb and have short attention spans.  we can't rely simply on "our ideas are better".  there needs to be some specific messaging to counteract the scare tactics and dumb voters.

just the reality we live in.

[Js1 87182]

Biden is the one spreading that talking point. 

[henrygandorf 29225]

12 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Biden is the one spreading that talking point. 

he should be, that's smart.

if he wins, we'll know why.

[bad_teammate 13524]

lol oops

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

54 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

there is no thanos finger-snap m4a scenario.

anything proposed from bernie to kamala will include some sort of transition period and private insurance won't just instantly disappear.

the r's will attempt to scare the shit out of voters by telling them "if bernie gets elected you'll get kicked off your employer insurance tomorrow and you and your 3 kids are fucked".  voters are dumb and have short attention spans.  we can't rely simply on "our ideas are better".  there needs to be some specific messaging to counteract the scare tactics and dumb voters.

just the reality we live in.

That's a part of the appeal of a public option, even through a medicare expansion for those who want to enroll in medicare. It's relatively easy to do and can be fully rolled out before the next election cycle, which is key. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Anything short of a single payer/MFA system will always be something the Republicans can chip away at and use for campaign fodder. 

You go all in on medicare for all and it will never be in jeopardy.  

The biggest lesson from Obamacare is half measures will always be vulnerable to sabotage.  

Every western country except Canada=half measures, got it. 

What do you mean by M4A?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

the last debate Warren said "I'm with Bernie on Medicare For All". Outside of that she hasn't said much. For as much detailed policy plans she's introduced, she's extremely vague on on healthcare. 

 I've seen no indication that she's willing to draw a line in the sand like Bernie.  She's setting herself up for a more moderate position. 

“I’m with Bernie on MFA” was the perfect answer.  She doesn’t need to have a healthcare plan to differentiate herself from Bernie.  There are no monopolies on good ideas and Bernie’s is fine.  

There’s no reason for her to come out with a healthcare plan when she can just roll with Bernie’s.  

Warren doesn’t play politics like the other clowns that are always second guessing themselves on whether or not they need to be more moderate or liberal.  Like Bernie, her ideology is her ideology.  

However, somewhat unlike Bernie, her views aren’t dogmatically entrenched for all of time.  Her worldview has proven malleable over time through her experiences and exposure to new information.  

She’s going to let Bernie do the hard selling on MFA because he is the leader on that issue.  If she needs to lead on healthcare, I don’t think it will be a problem except with Bernie because he’s a bit of a territorial curmudgeon.  

Bernie’s lane is Healthcare 

Warren’s lane is Economy/anti-corruption

Biden’s lane is white Obama 

Pete’s lane is generational change 

Kamala’s lane is “I will cut a bitch.”

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

lol oops
 

I love the Bernie bro twitter accounts and their weak ass shit.  

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

54 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Every western country except Canada=half measures, got it. 

What do you mean by M4A?

Guaranteed healthcare coverage for everyone in the United States without having to buy into “plans”.  I’m not talking about outlawing private/supplemental insurance, those can still exist.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

Guaranteed healthcare coverage for everyone in the United States without having to buy into “plans”.  I’m not talking about outlawing private/supplemental insurance, those can still exist.

Coverage of what?

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Let's be real. The vast majority of Americans don't give a flying fuck about still having private/supplemental insurance strictly for medically unnecessary reasons. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

“I’m with Bernie on MFA” was the perfect answer.  She doesn’t need to have a healthcare plan to differentiate herself from Bernie.  There are no monopolies on good ideas and Bernie’s is fine.  

There’s no reason for her to come out with a healthcare plan when she can just roll with Bernie’s.  

Warren doesn’t play politics like the other clowns that are always second guessing themselves on whether or not they need to be more moderate or liberal.  Like Bernie, her ideology is her ideology.  

However, somewhat unlike Bernie, her views aren’t dogmatically entrenched for all of time.  Her worldview has proven malleable over time through her experiences and exposure to new information.  

She’s going to let Bernie do the hard selling on MFA because he is the leader on that issue.  If she needs to lead on healthcare, I don’t think that will be a problem except with Bernie because he’s a bit of a territorial curmudgeon.  

I do not believe Warren is dedicated to Bernie's M4A plan. I do believe she will soften her stance. 

I could be wrong. We'll see. 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I do not believe Warren is dedicated to Bernie's M4A plan. I do believe she will soften her stance. 

I could be wrong. We'll see. 

I think she’s just as likely to go more aggressive than soft on healthcare.  She gains nothing by going softer. 

[Js1 87182]

4 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Gonna be some fireworks at the debates...

So still stuck on this.

The Assad-loving, Russia Today-backed Tulsi going hard on the "angry black bitch" narrative?  Because she also went hard on The View defending Biden against Angry Black Woman Kamala going after him, calling her life story about being bussed a "political ploy." 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think she’s just as likely to go more aggressive than soft on healthcare.  She gains nothing by going softer. 

I mean soften her stance in regards to being fully on board with Bernie's M4A plan. She will provide more options/pathways. Which will mean she's "not with Bernie" on M4A, IMO. 

This is what she said re: Medicare For All before the 1st debate: 

 

 

[henrygandorf 29225]

i’m a big fan of the phrase “walking it back” but if “moonwalking” were to replace it then i’m not mad at that. 

[henrygandorf 29225]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I love the Bernie bro twitter accounts and their weak ass shit.  

 

bros: we stand by our twitter gotcha moment and award ourselves many twitter gotcha points. 

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Bernie is the only candidate that is unabashedly pro-M4A.  I think Kamala and Warren have their own broad definition of what Medicare For All means in order to appease progressives by saying they support it. 

And that's ok. But if Warren is going to run a campaign flaunting her straight As on the purity tests, she should be called out for it with any walk backs (or moonwalks). 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

37 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I mean soften her stance in regards to being fully on board with Bernie's M4A plan. She will provide more options/pathways. Which will mean she's "not with Bernie" on M4A, IMO. 

This is what she said re: Medicare For All before the 1st debate: 

 

 

Stop watching Bernie Bro propaganda.  

Listen to what Elizabeth Warren says:

“I’m with Bernie” 

She’s with Bernie until she isn’t and there is no reason to believe she’s moving away from Bernie’s position.  

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Was trying to find a easily watchable video of her healthcare answer for NYT. That’s the only twitter link I could find.

They are her words, not theirs.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Was trying to find a easily watchable video of her healthcare answer for NYT. That’s the only twitter link I could find.

They are her words, not theirs.

And her words are the exact same shit Bernie is saying today.  1. Prevent sabotage of ACA.  2.  Lower prescription drug prices.  3. Healthcare is a basic human right. Medicare is the best way to get there to cover everyone.

[Hank Kingsley 21784]

Ok, Hugo. Warren supports Bernie’s M4A plan, right? Let’s see how it unfolds.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

21 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Ok, Hugo. Warren supports Bernie’s M4A plan, right? Let’s see how it unfolds.

Look, the Berners went after Warren on healthcare because she was passing him up in the polls and they thought it was a vulnerability because she doesn’t have a healthcare plan.  This is SOP for the Bernie bros.  She dumped cold water on that shit in the debate.

As Warren continues to climb I expect this line of attack to continue from the Berners even though Warren is actually doing Bernie a huge favor by staying out of the healthcare debate at letting him lead the conversation.  

Do you really think Warren is incapable of leadership on an issue as popular as universal healthcare?  Do you really think she’s interested in the donations from the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies?  Child please. 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz