2020 Democratic Nominee

[Dropout 355]

24 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Are warren and Beto the only candidates to call out the murders of black trans women?

Come on now

 

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

What a terribly weak answer from Harris. She’s always trying to say the right thing even when the obvious answer is right in front of her face. I have zero confidence that she will take trump to task as she claims she will.

[Dbeasy 14963]

lol
Personality is the only reason Pete Buttigieg or Beto O'Rourke exist as candidates that people talk about, yet both Pete & Beto had more Shag votes than Bernie or Biden (in Pete's case, 10x as many). These aren't policy or substance heavy candidates. They flatter the senses.

Just because you support far left policies doesn’t mean Pete is just personality. He simply has different policy views. You are so blinded by your far left alignment. Your lack of self awareness is ironic.

[Js1 85095]

Biden vs Trump debate winner will be whoever didn’t shit in their pants and say “colored people” at the end of the nights

[Dbeasy 14963]

Ugh.
Biden train full steam ahead.

At least he should beat Trump handily.

[gmr548 16491]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:10 PM, Mrs Whiggins said:

That is one of my concerns. I like Warren, but my oldest is excited because this will be her first presidential election. She is leaning toward Warren as well but her preference was for one of the other candidates. At this point, she is thinking that her candidate won't make it far enough and she really wants Trump out so she is going with the idea of voting for whomever she thinks can pull in enough votes. I will have to ask her more about her peer group to learn more about which candidates they are talking about.

It will depend on how fast the field narrows as the minor candidates run out of money and aren't granted the free boost of two-night, 20-person debate extravaganzas. Of the existing field, how many will make it to Iowa in February - six months from now? How many will make it to Super Tuesday after getting drubbed in the early contests?

Remember that Biden is polling at 30 percent with 100 percent name recognition. That says 70 percent of the primary electorate would prefer to vote for someone else. If the field narrows sufficiently before delegates really start getting committed then there will be a lot of people making decisions like your daughter, and the data says they probably aren't going to Biden. The remaining vote could easily get a Warren or a Sanders into the mid 20s (smart money is on Warren now given the trends we've seen for her and the face that Bernie's support seems to be fairly inelastic), at which point the not-Biden 70 percent would see the writing on the wall.

 

Of course, Biden could also win the D primary the same way Trump won the R, with a plurality but no majority. Wouldn't that be fun.

Edited August 9, 2019 by gmr548

[bad_teammate 13132]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Just because you support far left policies doesn’t mean Pete is just personality. He simply has different policy views. You are so blinded by your far left alignment. Your lack of self awareness is ironic.

I am sure that Pete has some policy ideas, but those ideas are not the basis of his rise and support. He didn't start talking about policies of any kind until after he reached his peak.

[UTDD 362]

4 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

It will depend on how fast the field narrows as the minor candidates run out of money and aren't granted the free boost of two-night, 20-person debate extravaganzas. Of the existing field, how many will make it to Iowa in February - six months from now? How many will make it to Super Tuesday after getting drubbed in the early contests?

Remember that Biden is polling at 30 percent with 100 percent name recognition. That says 70 percent of the primary electorate would prefer to vote for someone else. If the field narrows sufficiently before delegates really start getting committed then there will be a lot of people making decisions like your daughter, and the data says they probably aren't going to Biden. The remaining vote could easily get a Warren or a Sanders into the mid 20s (smart money is on Warren now given the trends we've seen for her and the face that Bernie's support seems to be fairly inelastic), at which point the not-Biden 70 percent would see the writing on the wall.

 

Of course, Biden could also win the D primary the same way Trump won the R, with a plurality but no majority. Wouldn't that be fun.

If both Bernie and Warren keep remaining viable and Harris is knocked out first, it's very possible that Biden will win without ever really having super strong support (over 50%) but enough to win the most delegates by a war of attrition.  Warren has to be able to win a good share of the black vote and also win some more conservative states.  I don't think Bernie can ever win enough of the black vote personally to ever win it all so to speak.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Here’s what I don’t understand about the electability framing:  Trump is a White Supremacist 

We shouldn’t be small balling here with the Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania bullshit.  We should be swinging for the motherfucking fences trying to win every single state against a White Supremacist.  

Do you want to live in a state that re-elected a White Supremacist President of the United States? I sure as shit don’t.  

This idea that we’re irreparably divided is also horseshit IMO.  We all have so much more in common than we’re led to believe.  If aliens invaded, I’m sure we’d come together real quick.  

Well Trump is from planet Fucktard and the democrats need to start acting like it instead of this, “let’s just squeak it out with Biden” inside baseball pundit crap. 

It’s almost like there’s some forces trying to keep us divided so we don’t break out the guillotines.  

[UTDD 362]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Here’s what I don’t understand about the electability framing:  Trump is a White Supremacist 

We shouldn’t be small balling here with the Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania bullshit.  We should be swinging for the motherfucking fences trying to win every single state against a White Supremacist.  

Do you want to live in a state that re-elected a White Supremacist President of the United States? I sure as shit don’t.  

This idea that we’re irreparably divided is also horseshit IMO.  We all have so much more in common than we’re led to believe.  If aliens invaded, I’m sure we’d come together real quick.  

Well Trump is from planet Fucktard and the democrats need to start acting like it instead of this, “let’s just squeak it out with Biden” inside baseball pundit crap. 

It’s almost like there’s some forces trying to keep us divided so we don’t break out the guillotines.  

Nothing wrong with doing everything you can but under no circumstances should Democrats sacrifice any resources and effort towards ESPECIALLY Wisconsin for a national campaign that takes money and resources away from that state (and a few key others of course).  If you can do it all, that's fine.

[UTDD 362]

29 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Biden vs Trump debate winner will be whoever didn’t shit in their pants and say “colored people” at the end of the nights

I've got a good imagination so I actually pictured the moderators baiting them both with very specifically worded questions and laughed out loud.  Well done.

[Pancho 44455]

40 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Come on now

 

Ehh I don’t follow Bernie 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

9 minutes ago, UTDD said:

Nothing wrong with doing everything you can but under no circumstances should Democrats sacrifice any resources and effort towards ESPECIALLY Wisconsin for a national campaign that takes money and resources away from that state (and a few key others of course).  If you can do it all, that's fine.

You don’t need to sacrifice resources.

You can pull it off with effective messaging and the right candidate.  Biden ain’t that guy. The democrats are out of touch if they think they can’t go scorched earth against Trump and win 400+ electoral votes. 

Warren, Beto, and Bernie are the only candidates I see right now that can pull off the landslide.  Buttigieg is a good candidate but he’s not assertive enough IMO.  Maybe he can turn that around. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Now I don’t think he meant harm, but the more he has to campaign, the more frequent these situations will hurt his chances.

 

 

[Dropout 355]

18 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Ehh I don’t follow Bernie 

Obviously. Just know if there’s injustice Bernie’s probably on it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

[Dropout 355]

See I would laugh if it wasn’t true. So right now that shit ain’t too funny to me.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Dropout

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

8 minutes ago, Dropout said:

See I would laugh if it wasn’t true. So right now that shit ain’t too funny to me.

Just so you know, I pulled it from a Bernie bro. 

[Js1 85095]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Can we 25th amendment a candidate for president?

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

 

It really is time for the old guy to enjoy retirement. It's only going to get worse. 

[RomaVicta 29775]

I'll admit that I like Biden and have for a long time, but he's clearly past it. Speaking was his forte, now he has to be terribly careful and he still struggles. It's sad that his moment has come too late, and that time has passed him by.

I'd happily vote for him over Trump, but I'd like to get started changing the country with somebody else.

[Message Board User 12389]

Can't wait for his acceptance speech at next year's convention when he rails against election interference by the Rwandans and currency manipulation by Chile.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

10 hours ago, gmr548 said:

It will depend on how fast the field narrows as the minor candidates run out of money and aren't granted the free boost of two-night, 20-person debate extravaganzas. Of the existing field, how many will make it to Iowa in February - six months from now? How many will make it to Super Tuesday after getting drubbed in the early contests?

Remember that Biden is polling at 30 percent with 100 percent name recognition. That says 70 percent of the primary electorate would prefer to vote for someone else. If the field narrows sufficiently before delegates really start getting committed then there will be a lot of people making decisions like your daughter, and the data says they probably aren't going to Biden. The remaining vote could easily get a Warren or a Sanders into the mid 20s (smart money is on Warren now given the trends we've seen for her and the face that Bernie's support seems to be fairly inelastic), at which point the not-Biden 70 percent would see the writing on the wall.

 

Of course, Biden could also win the D primary the same way Trump won the R, with a plurality but no majority. Wouldn't that be fun.

She does NOT like Biden, and frankly neither do I. He is more of the same old same old. I cannot speak as to how other students her age are considering this election other than personal observation but the young adults in our family are looking at it as a "you adults are effing up big time and too scared to wade in and fix it." I have one fatalist who has been opining that "it's all for naught, nothing good is going to come out of this. The rich will get theirs and everyone else is screwed." We're still working on him. I am a cynical optimist and unfortunately, he may be correct but I'm not telling him that.

CSB (or whatever you call it-it's really more of a sad story)"

Am acquaintances/friends with a student I volunteered with and his parents are hard core Republicans. All the Muslim talk, all the anti-squad, ISIS stuff. As a parent, I casually monitor one of my children's social media and said student tweets something about Muslims and their terrible agenda in America. Another student calls him out on it, pointing out that he (the student)  is stereotyping and profiling groups of Americans and he says, "I have no Muslim friends." Yet another student (again whom I have known since elementary school who has attended the same schools and played sports with the original boy and who happens to be of the Islamic faith) comments: "I thought I was your friend." Wow. Twitter account went silent, but I hope they had a conversation in the halls.

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Mrs Whiggins
typo

[EMAWesome 101]

11 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Here’s what I don’t understand about the electability framing:  Trump is a White Supremacist 

 

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-charlottesville-transcript-20170815-story.html

TRUMP: OK. Good. Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people, and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You’ve got -- you had a lot of bad -- you had a lot of bad people in the other group…

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Trump’s policies and rhetoric are that of a white supremacist.  He’s a white supremacist. 

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I am sure that Pete has some policy ideas, but those ideas are not the basis of his rise and support. He didn't start talking about policies of any kind until after he reached his peak.

That was his entire strategy. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

That was his entire strategy. 

Yeah, Pete wanted to capture the people’s imagination and he did a good job of it.  What I fear is the billionaires got to him first when they saw how captivating he was.  They need to hold influence over him out of self preservation because he’s the kind of guy that could lead a successful political revolution.  I realize this comes off as concern trolling but Pete doesn’t have a record as a public servant when he’s backed by a few dozen billionaires.  He still has more to prove and the only way he can do it is with experience.   In other words, the jury is still out with Pete, at least for me. 

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Thrawn 538]

Quote

QUESTION: (inaudible) started this (inaudible) Charlottesville. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest…

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. (inaudible) themselves (inaudible) and you have some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

 

These "fine people" came to this event in response to these advertisements.

Quote

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Damn how is Steyer getting 2-3% in so many states?   Is he paying people off or something? 

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

Was in an Uber yesterday and our driver was an African American lady in her 50s listening to political talk on the radio. I chatted with her a bit. 

Her top 3 candidates: 

Biden: "Did you hear his speech yesterday? It was excellent."

Warren: "She's so smart."

Kamala - "But I'm cooling off on her because she went after Biden in 1st debate"

 

On Buttigieg:"I like him but not sure if people will vote for a gay guy"

On Sanders: "I like him but don't want him to be President"

She likes Beto as well. Not a fan of Cory Booker for some reason. 

 

[David Dennison 18652]

4 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Damn how is Steyer getting 2-3% in so many states?   Is he paying people off or something? 

He's been running ads for two years now.

[henrygandorf 29174]

dp

Edited August 9, 2019 by henrygandorf

[henrygandorf 29174]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Was in an Uber yesterday and our driver was an African American lady in her 50s listening to political talk on the radio. I chatted with her a bit. 

Her top 3 candidates: 

Biden: "Did you hear his speech yesterday? It was excellent."

Warren: "She's so smart."

Kamala - "But I'm cooling off on her because she went after Biden in 1st debate"

 

On Buttigieg:"I like him but not sure if people will vote for a gay guy"

On Sanders: "I like him but don't want him to be President"

She likes Beto as well. Not a fan of Cory Booker for some reason. 

 

she talks like me!

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

That was his entire strategy.

Yes, I agree.

His strategy, which is a smart one, is to be the most pleasing and calming personality. Pete support developed (and exists still) among voters who like certain emotional and decorum buttons being pressed.

2 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Bernie may discuss policies a lot, but I’m not sure you can label the guy a wonkish “all substance and not personality” candidate when the answer to how any of his policies will actually become law is, “Sure, maybe it can’t happen now, but that’s why I’m calling for a grassroots Democratic Socialist revolution that totally changes everything!”

The only rational answer to the question of how to pass progressive policy is a political revolution in which millions and millions of currently-uninvolved young people and working people get involved. That IS the substantive answer.

The fantasy answer is bipartisan compromise and working across the aisle with the current representatives slightly adjusted.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The only rational answer to the question of how to pass progressive policy is a political revolution in which millions and millions of currently-uninvolved young people and working people get involved. That IS the substantive answer.

The fantasy answer is bipartisan compromise and working across the aisle with the current representatives slightly adjusted.

I agree with this.  Also why I think we are fucked and I'll meet you on the ledge with scotch.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, I agree.

His strategy, which is a smart one, is to be the most pleasing and calming personality. Pete support developed (and exists still) among voters who like certain emotional and decorum buttons being pressed.

The only rational answer to the question of how to pass progressive policy is a political revolution in which millions and millions of currently-uninvolved young people and working people get involved. That IS the substantive answer.

The fantasy answer is bipartisan compromise and working across the aisle with the current representatives slightly adjusted.

Why is it not fantasy to believe that such a revolution could actually happen? 

[tantric superman 4667]

Just because Texas voted for Ted Cruz and there is no way in fuck it is going to not go for Trump doesn't mean I'm not going to work to make sure the Republicans don't fearfully waste money in this state next year.

(Since there is about five negatives in that sentence, just to clarify:

Fuck All Republicans.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

10 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Why is it not fantasy to believe that such a revolution could actually happen? 

The 2018 mid-terms were a 50-year high in voter turnout, up 5.1% from 2014. It's already happening.

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The 2018 mid-terms were a 50-year high in voter turnout, up 5.1% from 2014. It's already happening.

I was under the impression that the 2018 midterm victories were driven by moderates.

[henrygandorf 29174]

19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, I agree.

His strategy, which is a smart one, is to be the most pleasing and calming personality. Pete support developed (and exists still) among voters who like certain emotional and decorum buttons being pressed.

no, his strategy was not to be the most pleasing and calming personality, that's just who he is. 

but you wouldn't know that 8 months ago (not you specifically, but america) and that was the whole point.  he wasn't bernie, biden, or even beto or warren.  nobody knew him.  so instead of coming out of the box with policy, he simply went on an educational and introduction tour.  he did a ton of media so that people could simply learn who he was.

watching him in town halls, interviews, and to a lesser extent, speeches, he allowed us to get a sense of who he was, how he thinks, and what issues that are important to him.  this is why a lot of people took to him.

obviously, since then, he's rolled out policies, gotten more aggressive (especially concerning pence, then trump), and has carved out his spot.

my initial point, which started this line of conversation, is that a lot of voters don't pay as much attention to the specifics of policy, they vote out of comfort.  comfort is about personality and familiarity.  this is why so many people (still 6 months out) have biden/bernie 1/2 in some order.  i think once people start paying more attention, that will change, but not as drastically as it does in a bubble like on discussion boards like this.

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I was under the impression that the 2018 midterm victories were driven by moderates.

Even if we accept the idea of a massive influx of "moderates", I have no idea how that contradicts anything I've been saying. The political revolution Bernie has talked about for years now is about getting young people and working class people involved. Bernie's proposals, in a global political perspective, are moderate proposals. He does not have a radical platform.

Bernie's call for a political revolution isn't about increasing DSA membership to 50M. It's about getting people to actually vote, because he knows that when they vote they will move towards his platform, because his platform is popular.

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

he did a ton of media so that people could simply learn who he was.watching him in town halls, interviews, and to a lesser extent, speeches, he allowed us to get a sense of who he was, how he thinks, and what issues that are important to him.  this is why a lot of people took to him.

Lots of candidates did this, yet Pete took off. Why? Because he feels good.

I don't know why you're hiding from this basic reality. Pete looks, talks, and feels like someone you want in leadership. I get it. I LOVED Obama in '07. Loved. He hooked me 100% and we filled in his empty vessel with our hopes and dreams.

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Lots of candidates did this, yet Pete took off. Why? Because he feels good.

I don't know why you're hiding from this basic reality. Pete looks, talks, and feels like someone you want in leadership. I get it. I LOVED Obama in '07. Loved. He hooked me 100% and we filled in his empty vessel with our hopes and dreams.

i'm not hiding from any reality.

you're saying pete took off because he feels good.

i'm saying pete took off because he actually is good.

if it was easy and anyone could do it, then more people would've done it.

then you go on to say he looks, talks, and feels like someone you want in leadership.  that's not an easy thing to do, and our current leader does none of those things.  your implication is that it's all a facade or a mirage (if i'm understanding you correctly) and that's where we differ.

[tantric superman 4667]

Well, HG, we're also conservatives and he's not.

[Hank Kingsley 20678]

Not a lot of great polling news for Pete lately, as he's either dipped or plateaued in most. But this is encouraging. 

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Well, HG, we're also conservatives and he's not.

i prefer the moniker "republican on vacation".

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Well, HG, we're also conservatives and he's not.

Actually I think he's realizing his "everyone who disagrees with me is a Republican" thing is falling flat. His new tack is to gaslight everyone he disagrees with as "emotional".

bad teammate is calling other people emotional.

bad teammate.

I love it.

Edited August 9, 2019 by BradInATX