2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13125]

lol Brad the Republican weighing in

[henrygandorf 29174]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete would make an awesome Republican.  So smooth with his bullshit and framing. 

which part was bullshit?

how did the framing of his idea bother you?

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

which part was bullshit?

how did the framing of his idea bother you?

Did you notice how his audience hesitated to cheer for his first drop and then was dead silent at his jab aimed at Bernie/Warren? Yeah, that's them getting it while you pretend not to.

The bullshit framing is the typical Republican, "God damned liberals want to force the government on you!" shit.

Fuck him. Completely pointless candidate.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"God damned liberals want to force the government on you!" shit.

That's literally what M4A with the full replacement of private insurance is.  Like as literal as the world literal can be. Forcing you off of your current plan and forcing you onto a government plan.

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13125]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

That's literally what M4A with the full replacement of private insurance is.  Like as literal as the world literal can be. Forcing you off of your current plan and forcing you onto a government plan.

The presumption in his zinger is that this is bad. That's why it's a Republican attack and why it resonates with you, the Republican.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Did you notice how his audience hesitated to cheer for his first drop and then was dead silent at his jab aimed at Bernie/Warren? Yeah, that's them getting it while you pretend not to.

The bullshit framing is the typical Republican, "God damned liberals want to force the government on you!" shit.

Fuck him. Completely pointless candidate.

i have no idea about the size of his crowd, but i noticed a medium sized response to his plan, and his normal bad comedic timing on his "jab".  but sure, you hear what you want to hear, if it makes you and your volunteer count sleep better at night.  i was hoping hugo would answer, since it seems it's one of his 2 days a week to do his b_t impression that we've grown to love so so much.

28 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Eat a bag of shit, bitch.

you know, i hear all the time about the bros and their behavior online, but man, i just haven't seen any evidence of it.  oh well.

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The presumption in his zinger is that this is bad. That's why it's a Republican attack and why it resonates with you, the Republican.

Believing that stripping people of their freedom of choice does not make one a Republican. But being in favor of it makes one a fringe extremist, which of course every single person on this board knows you are.

(This is where you fire up your Hank Scorpio alias and post something witty, to prove that not 100% of the board absolutely detests you, only 99.9%)

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The bullshit framing is the typical Republican, "God damned liberals want to force the government on you!" shit.

This.  

The postal service should stop forcing mail on me and I shouldn’t be forced to use government paid roads.  Also, I shouldn’t be forced to send my kids to school.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[bad_teammate 13125]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i have no idea about the size of his crowd, but i noticed a medium sized response to his plan, and his normal bad comedic timing on his "jab".  but sure, you hear what you want to hear, if it makes you and your volunteer count sleep better at night.  i was hoping hugo would answer, since it seems it's one of his 2 days a week to do his b_t impression that we've grown to love so so much.

you know, i hear all the time about the bros and their behavior online, but man, i just haven't seen any evidence of it.  oh well.

I notice you're not actually denying that his jab is a Republican talking point and that what he's attacking is the most progressive plan for addressing the healthcare crisis in this country. All this as a candidate who is wildly overfunded by big money donors relative to his actual popularity.

I guess that's progress.

And I'm sorry that it offends your delicate sensibilities, but if Pete's game here is to be a baby Republican he can jump into traffic for all the fucking use he is.

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Believing that stripping people of their freedom of choice does not make one a Republican. But being in favor of it makes one a fringe extremist, which of course every single person on this board knows you are.

M4A doesn't strip choice, Republican. People would still choose their providers. And what "choice" do employees have now when their insurance provider options are determined by their employers? You can't answer that question, because you're a dishonest, idiot Republican.

Edited September 18, 2019 by bad_teammate

[bad_teammate 13125]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

(This is where you fire up your Hank Scorpio alias and post something witty, to prove that not 100% of the board absolutely detests you, only 99.9%)

Oh no!! NOW WHO WILL COME TO MY BIRTHDAY PARTY!?!?

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

M4A doesn't strip choice, Republican. People would still choose their providers. And what "choice" do employees have now when their options are determined by their employers? You can't answer that question, because you're a dishonest, idiot Republican.

So Bernie's M4A still leaves me the option to keep my current insurance provider and plan, which I very much like and would dramatically prefer over a public/government run plan? 

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

It’s INSANE people still think universal healthcare is a radical idea.  Bill Clinton and Obama literally ran on it and won.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, BradInATX said:

So Bernie's M4A still leaves me the option to keep my current insurance provider and plan, which I very much like and would dramatically prefer over a M4A option? 

Why would you prefer your current plan to an M4A option? Is that based on honest calculation or your Republican values making a determination absent reasoning?

Also, doesn't your employer have the right currently to remove that option from you at any time? Is it really your choice?

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why would you prefer your current plan to an M4A option? Is that based on honest calculation or your Republican values making a determination absent reasoning?

Also, doesn't your employer have the right currently to remove that option from you at any time? Is it really your choice?

I prefer my plan because the annual out-of-pocket maximum plus our premiums are about half of what the estimated tax hike for Bernie's plan would be. Because our network is great and the dental/vision are also wonderful. We had a baby last year and I think our total spend for premiums plus all of our bills was about $6k.

If my wife lost her job we could easily jump on an ACA plan or I could acquire a plan through my company that I own. She's not going to lose her job, but if she did we'd be fine.

So I ask again, does Bernie's plan strip my ability to keep my current insurance plan that is terrific for our family, or does it not?

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

I prefer my plan because the annual out-of-pocket maximum plus our premiums are about half of what the estimated tax hike for Bernie's plan would be.

[citation needed]

Quote

If my wife lost her job we could easily jump on an ACA plan or I could acquire a plan through my company that I own. She's not going to lose her job, but we'd be fine.

So I ask again, does Bernie's plan strip my ability to keep my current insurance plan that is terrific for our family, or does it not?

It absolutely does replace your current plan, which can be taken away in a blink regardless of your choices or desires.

But you'd rather be a slave to capital than participate in social democracy, because that's what Republicans love.

[henrygandorf 29174]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I notice you're not actually denying that his jab is a Republican talking point and that what he's attacking is the most progressive plan for addressing the healthcare crisis in this country.

i'm sorry, am i really supposed to take you/that comment seriously?  you think everything that's not straight out of bernie's mouth is a republican talking point.  that must've been in your daily bernie talking points email a few months ago, because man, you started saying it and haven't stopped since.

bernie led the way on m4a.  he took the party with him.  pete's plan offers the govt option, just like bernie's.  their plans will look similar in the first several years.  sorry if pete (and others) have staked their claim closer to grandpa's lawn than you would like, but that's the cost of leadership.  you should be proud.

and if you think that's an attack, then i worry you're gonna stroke out during the general when trump starts hurling actual gop talking points...at liz.

i think we both realize that neither pete nor bernie are going to be the next president.  the difference is that one of us keeps being a cunt about it.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

[citation needed]

It absolutely does replace your current plan, which can be taken away in a blink regardless of your choices or desires.

But you'd rather be a slave to capital than participate in social democracy, because that's what Republicans love.

"Under his Medicare For All plan, Sanders says Americans could erase $20,000 of annual private health care expenses for $10,000 in additional taxes."

And like I said above (may have edited after you saw it), our premiums plus our entire medical expenses for 2018 including a newborn baby were about $7k. So a bit more than half of the $10k Bernie claims (lol, but I'll concede it for this discussion). And in a normal year it's around $5k.

So, when you said "M4A doesn't strip choice", you're now saying that it does strip my choice. Ergo you are full of shit, but now your new talking point is that I'm a "slave to capital". K.

FWIW, I'm with you that we need to make it so corporations can't hold employees hostage over healthcare. But a public option will do just fine there. We don't need to strip people's choices away to accomplish that.

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[Message Board User 12389]

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I prefer my plan because the annual out-of-pocket maximum plus our premiums are about half of what the estimated tax hike for Bernie's plan would be. Because our network is great and the dental/vision are also wonderful. We had a baby last year and I think our total spend for premiums plus all of our bills was about $6k.

If my wife lost her job we could easily jump on an ACA plan or I could acquire a plan through my company that I own. She's not going to lose her job, but if she did we'd be fine.

So I ask again, does Bernie's plan strip my ability to keep my current insurance plan that is terrific for our family, or does it not?

Dude, you're wasting your time with these two.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

i'm sorry, am i really supposed to take you/that comment seriously?  you think everything that's not straight out of bernie's mouth is a republican talking point. 

Are you sincerely trying to pretend that, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" isn't a Republican talking point? You're trying very hard to be inflammatory to draw attention away from it, which indicates to me that you realize that your preferred candidate is actually using a right-turn as a political move and you're so uncomfortable with it that you have to try to start a personality-based fight to distract from it.

Pete sucks. I'm sorry that it hurts you so much to have it pointed out.

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

And like I said above (may have edited after you saw it), our premiums plus our entire medical expenses for 2018 including a newborn baby were about $7k. So a bit more than half of the $10k Bernie claims (lol, but I'll concede it for this discussion). And in a normal year it's around $5k.

Would you, specifically, be paying $10k in additional taxes? 

[citation needed]

Quote

So, when you said "M4A doesn't strip choice", you're now saying that it does strip my choice.

It replaces one forced option with another. You're pretending that you have choice now when, in fact, you don't. I cannot strip from you something you don't actually have (in this case, choice).

Quote

I'm with you that we need to make it so corporations can't hold employees hostage over healthcare.

Why? I thought "choice" was real and good!?!?

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It replaces one forced option with another. You're pretending that you have choice now when, in fact, you don't. I cannot strip from you something you don't actually have (in this case, choice).

Wait, it's your belief that employees are forced into their company's benefits plans, and can't opt out?

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Wait, it's your belief that employees are forced into their company's benefits plans, and can't opt out?

Of course they can opt out, Brad, just as you could simply not use your M4A even though you pay taxes (just as medical insurance is a part of salary/benefit determination regardless of whether or not you take it).

Under M4A you can choose to never actually use it and just go cash/concierge.

Also under M4A, literally all providers who take it will be available to you, unlike now where providers take one private plan/company but not another.

CHOICE!

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Are you sincerely trying to pretend that, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" isn't a Republican talking point? You're trying very hard to be inflammatory to draw attention away from it, which indicates to me that you realize that your preferred candidate is actually using a right-turn as a political move and you're so uncomfortable with it that you have to try to start a personality-based fight to distract from it.

Pete sucks. I'm sorry that it hurts you so much to have it pointed out.

except, he didn't say this.  maybe that's what you heard.  maybe that's what you always hear when someone says something that goes slightly against what bernie says.

see, most of us around here realized a while back that this is your favorite little move.  you mischaracterize something, and you attack that, instead of what actually happened.  it's not a bad move, for the internet, to basically get the argument started while using your false and distorted claim, because once someone allows you to throw it in there, it's tough to turn it around.

i get it.  i don't blame you.

and sorry you got your panties in a bunch after i complimented lord bernie.  just saying what everyone else is thinking.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

It’s INSANE people still think universal healthcare is a radical idea.  Bill Clinton and Obama literally ran on it and won.

Universal Healthcare is a great idea that all Democrats and most Americans agree on. The Sanders/Jayapal is not the only or even best way to achieve it, which is why the western countries with the most extensive public systems are moving towards increasing hybridization.

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

except, he didn't say this. 

Cool, so properly characterize it for me.

Here's the quote again: "I'm proposing Medicare for all who want it. It's just a little bit different from the idea of Medicare for all whether you want it or not."

Please tell me what I'm getting wrong when I say that message is the Republican's typical, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" 

Remember, also, that he has called M4A "divisive" and "polarizing", as well.

I await your help in clarifying.

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Of course they can opt out, Brad, just as you could simply not use your M4A even though you pay taxes (just as medical insurance is a part of salary/benefit determination regardless of whether or not you take it).

Under M4A you can choose to never actually use it and just go cash/concierge.

Also under M4A, literally all providers who take it will be available to you, unlike now where providers take one private plan/company but not another.

CHOICE!

But if I opt out of my company plan, I no longer pay the premiums. If I don't use my M4A, I still pay the premiums by way of taxes.

And your contention that I have only one choice now is absolute nonsense:

- My wife's plan (that we are currently on)
- The HDHP plan that my wife's company offers as an alternate
- An ACA marketplace plan
- A private plan not in the ACA market (I found 27 with a quick google search)
- A plan through my company
- A plan through one of the many insurance pools for freelancers/self-employed workers that are out there
- COBRA (if my wife got fired)
- Pay cash for everything

Whereas with Bernie's M4A I have one choice.

So currently I have roughly 34 options, whereas with Bernie I'd have one. And you still contend that my choices aren't going to be stripped. LOL.

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Cool, so properly characterize it for me.

Here's the quote again: "I'm proposing Medicare for all who want it. It's just a little bit different from the idea of Medicare for all whether you want it or not."

Please tell me what I'm getting wrong when I say that message is the Republican's typical, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" 

Remember, also, that he has called M4A "divisive" and "polarizing", as well.

I await your help in clarifying.

except, you know, he didn't.

but thanks for waiting exactly one post to show the exact move i pointed out.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Pete didn't say these things he's on video saying.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

This.  
The postal service should stop forcing mail on me and I shouldn’t be forced to use government paid roads.  Also, I shouldn’t be forced to send my kids to school.

Mail for all! Step one is shutting down UPS, FedEx and DHL except for discretely wrapped adult novelties.

[bad_teammate 13125]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

But if I opt out of my company plan, I no longer pay the premiums. If I don't use my M4A, I still pay the premiums by way of taxes.

You no longer pay the premiums, but your pay scale was still determined under the assumption that they would be paying a chunk of your healthcare expenses. Do you deny this?

The fact that it's virtually invisible doesn't change the fact that it's a deduction from your pay.

Quote

And your contention that I have only one choice now is absolute nonsense:

- My wife's plan (that we are currently on)
- The HDHP plan that my wife's company offers as an alternate
- An ACA marketplace plan
- A private plan not in the ACA market (I found 27 with a quick google search)
- A plan through my company
- A plan through one of the many insurance pools for freelancers/self-employed workers that are out there
- COBRA (if my wife got fired)
- Pay cash for everything

Whereas with Bernie's M4A I have one choice.

So currently I have roughly 34 options, whereas with Bernie I'd have one. And you still contend that my choices aren't going to be stripped. LOL.

*looking at a collection of rotting mounds of meat*

"MY CHOICES ARE PLENTIFUL!"

lol

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Mail for all! Step one is shutting down UPS, FedEx and DHL except for discretely wrapped adult novelties.

Gotta shut down the private schools too. And death penalty for homeschoolers.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Gotta shut down the private schools too. And death penalty for homeschoolers.

Death penalty is strong, but... yeah.

[bad_teammate 13125]

I think it's a terrible shame that M4A is going to get rid of everyone's favorite thing.... COBRA!

lol fucking idiot

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You no longer pay the premiums, but your pay scale was still determined under the assumption that they would be paying a chunk of your healthcare expenses. Do you deny this?

The fact that it's virtually invisible doesn't change the fact that it's a deduction from your pay.

*looking at a collection of rotting mounds of meat*

"MY CHOICES ARE PLENTIFUL!"

lol

None of what you said matters to the fundamental point that M4A (who don't want it) is stripping people of their choices. You can flail and pivot all you want by changing your argument to "I am trying to save you from your bad choices!" (which of course fits your privileged white savior complex perfectly), but the bottom line is M4A will strip people of options, many of which are options that people like.

Glad you're tacitly admitting that your original assertion that "M4A doesn't strip anyone of choice!" was completely wrong and stupid, even if you're doing it while trying to squirm your way into a new argument (your choices are bad!) that I'm not going to have with you. It's progress for you. Baby steps.

The only person who still defends you on this board is Hugo. The guy who just tried to use the mail as a corollary to healthcare. Think about that.

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

It’s the philosophical position Pete is taking.  He apparently thinks the private sector is still viable in healthcare (it isn’t if you really want to reduce costs). 

It would be one thing for Pete to say the destination is a single payer system and he has the best vision of how to get there.  He is not saying that.  

Pete is saying his destination some public option to act in a competitive marketplace with private insurance.   Sounds good but it will more than likely get gutted and sabotaged by the usual suspects.  A MFA system is much less vulnerable to getting undermined. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Pete didn't say these things he's on video saying.

uh, his concern about the sanders/warren approach (of forcing all people off current plans and to a govt option) is that it could be polarizing and divisive.  this is pete's opinion, and polls have shown he's not wrong.

he didn't say m4a was polarizing and divisive.  maybe listen more, talk less.  unless you're just getting a vibe that tells you everything you need to know.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Mail for all! Step one is shutting down UPS, FedEx and DHL except for discretely wrapped adult novelties.

Even in a fully funded government healthcare system, there would still be room for private sector players.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete would make an awesome Republican.  So smooth with his bullshit and framing. 

 

59 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You probably shouldn't go running around saying that the desire to give people more choices and freedom vs. less is a Republican trait. 

You know Brad kind of has a point. The big problem for him is that the Republican tent is all Trumpist now. There is no room for RINOs anymore. The smoothness and bullshit framing is all gone now. They don't even try to frame their bullshit now. Brad is done with the GOP and that's good. He needs a centrist party. He and Biden and Romney can all join it. Maybe we'd all be better off if it existed as well. 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Even in a fully funded government healthcare system, there would still be room for private sector players.  

Quit while you're behind.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

Cool, so properly characterize it for me.
Here's the quote again: "I'm proposing Medicare for all who want it. It's just a little bit different from the idea of Medicare for all whether you want it or not."
Please tell me what I'm getting wrong when I say that message is the Republican's typical, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" 
Remember, also, that he has called M4A "divisive" and "polarizing", as well.
I await your help in clarifying.

Everyone who disagrees with you about how to achieve is parroting Republican talking points, obviously. It is literally impossible for other positions to be reasonable, coherent or legitimate. You’ve just got a knack for spotting wrongthink.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

 

You know Brad kind of has a point. The big problem for him is that the Republican tent is all Trumpist now. There is no room for RINOs anymore. The smoothness and bullshit framing is all gone now. They don't even try to frame their bullshit now. Brad is done with the GOP and that's good. He needs a centrist party. He and Biden and Romney can all join it. Maybe we'd all be better off if it existed as well. 

Every single Democratic candidate except for one is on my side of the healthcare issue.

Edited September 18, 2019 by BradInATX

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

But if I opt out of my company plan, I no longer pay the premiums. If I don't use my M4A, I still pay the premiums by way of taxes.
And your contention that I have only one choice now is absolute nonsense:
- My wife's plan (that we are currently on)
- The HDHP plan that my wife's company offers as an alternate
- An ACA marketplace plan
- A private plan not in the ACA market (I found 27 with a quick google search)
- A plan through my company
- A plan through one of the many insurance pools for freelancers/self-employed workers that are out there
- COBRA (if my wife got fired)
- Pay cash for everything
Whereas with Bernie's M4A I have one choice.
So currently I have roughly 34 options, whereas with Bernie I'd have one. And you still contend that my choices aren't going to be stripped. LOL.

34 Republican talking points, you mean.

[henrygandorf 29174]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s the philosophical position Pete is taking.  He apparently thinks the private sector is still viable in healthcare (it isn’t if you really want to reduce costs). 

philosophy?  apparently?  he has said there will be an option, and he has said that it will get phased out because he thinks the public option will be that much better.  he's running for president.  his job is to stake out a position that he thinks makes sense for voters.  a candidate saying something that disagrees with the candidate you like the most doesn't make him a piece of shit.

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It would be one thing for Pete to say the destination is a single payer system and he has the best vision of how to get there.  He is not saying that.  

he has said that the destination is a single payer system, and this is his plan.  he apparently thinks this is the best vision of how to get there.

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Pete is saying his destination some public option to act in a competitive marketplace with private insurance.   Sounds good but it will more than likely get gutted and sabotaged by the usual suspects.  A MFA system is much less vulnerable to getting undermined. 

unfortunately, in our current govt, every system is vulnerable to getting undermined and sabotaged by the usual suspects.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

It’s the philosophical position Pete is taking.  He apparently thinks the private sector is still viable in healthcare (it isn’t if you really want to reduce costs). 

This is as silly as the “privatization encourages efficiency” line Republicans spout.
Seriously total horseshit.

You guys should stick to partisan identity blah blah blah and stay the fuck away from life and death issues because bullshit like that is how we got here.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Every single Democratic candidate except for one is on my side of the healthcare issue.

Yeah, what about Marianne Williamson?  

I kid. I have no clue what her healthcare position is. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

... but the bottom line is M4A will strip people of options, many of which are options that people like.

In that regard it is no different from any other healthcare plan (including Pete's, which will cause huge reverberations in the market and will cost millions their current plans because those people don't actually have the choice) or even the normal functioning of our current system where people lose their plans constantly.

Among those who had employer-sponsored insurance in 2014, only 72 percent were continuously enrolled in that insurance for the next 12 months. This means that 28 percent of people on an employer plan were not on that same plan 1 year later. You like your employer health plan? You better cross your fingers because 1 in 4 people on employer plans will come off their plan in the next 12 months.

Does M4A strip choice? Only in the sense that literally every single other healthcare plan or regulation also strips choice.

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

uh, his concern about the sanders/warren approach (of forcing all people off current plans and to a govt option) is that it could be polarizing and divisive. 

The "Sanders/Warren approach" is M4A. So if their approach is divisive and polarizing, then M4A is divisive and polarizing. Or are you tone policing Liz the same way you tone police Bernie?

Quote

a candidate saying something that disagrees with the candidate you like the most doesn't make him a piece of shit.

If the candidate is using Republican talking points to attack a more progressive option then yes, he is a piece of shit.

Quote

he has said that the destination is a single payer system, and this is his plan.  he apparently thinks this is the best vision of how to get there.

So he actually does want to force Medicare on people whether they want it or not? Or does he only think we should do single-payer if 100% of voters agree?

Hmmm.... interesting.

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Everyone who disagrees with you about how to achieve is parroting Republican talking points, obviously.

Here's the quote again: "I'm proposing Medicare for all who want it. It's just a little bit different from the idea of Medicare for all whether you want it or not."

Please tell me what I'm getting wrong when I say that message is the Republican's typical, "the liberals are trying to destroy the private market and force the government on you" 

Please explain it to me. I am eager to learn why this characterization is false or unfair.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is as silly as the “privatization encourages efficiency” line Republicans spout.
Seriously total horseshit.

You guys should stick to partisan identity blah blah blah and stay the fuck away from life and death issues because bullshit like that is how we got here.

In reality, scale leads to efficiency in material production and inefficiency in service production. 

All the inefficiencies of government bureaucracy exist at any corporation of sufficient size. 

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Does M4A strip choice? Only in the sense that literally every single other healthcare plan or regulation also strips choice.

LOL. You are ridiculous. Right now I have 34+ choices. With M4A I'd have one.

34 =/= 1

You are wrong. Give it up. I'm out. I'll let henry and bozo continue to bat you around.

 

 

[Dbeasy 14953]

Hugo and bad,

You can call everyone idiots and Republicans all you want, but the bottom line is that huge swaths of your own Democratic Party is standing up and saying M4A is not viable. It leaves voters confused and unclear about such an important critical issue, and until you can get your own party in agreement, or at least close to it, you look like spastic fools to everyone else.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, BradInATX said:

LOL. You are ridiculous. Right now I have 34+ choices. With M4A I'd have one.

You have 34+ choices, 33 of which are emergency backups that you don't actually want.

Also, M4A gives you the option to use the M4A insurance or to ignore it completely and go cash-only. So that's at least 2.

Please update your talking points with this new information.

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yeah, what about Marianne Williamson?  

I kid. I have no clue what her healthcare position is. 

Pretty sure it has something to do with Patchouli, whatever it is.