2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Don’t know what to make of this either:

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

Yep, big business and evil billionares are trying to dump money into funding leftist candidates. This will surely sink Bernie

[henrygandorf 29178]

25 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Yep, big business and evil billionares are trying to dump money into funding leftist candidates. This will surely sink Bernie

yeah guys, as long as it's not big business or evil rich guys, then bernie can break all the campaign fundraising violations he wants!

or we could just all take a sober step back and realize most of these purity tests are silly and stupid, and have nothing to do with the candidate or the policies they're promoting.  if bernie is the nominee, i hope he takes money that falls off the back of a truck if it helps beat trump.  the rest of the twitter quibbling is a distraction and a waste of time.

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

The crazy thing to me is the Buttigieg hate on the progressive left. Here you’ve got a young, gay married mayor who is extremely accomplished and incredibly impressive and well organized as a candidate despite a ridiculously thin resume and was a progressive darling when he ran for DNC chair.
I get that everybody seems to have discovered the word “neoliberal” all at once and decided to stick his face on it, but the revulsion seems over the top.

[Js1 85112]

Can his black support go negative? 

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

yeah guys, as long as it's not big business or evil rich guys, then bernie can break all the campaign fundraising violations he wants!

or we could just all take a sober step back and realize most of these purity tests are silly and stupid, and have nothing to do with the candidate or the policies they're promoting.  if bernie is the nominee, i hope he takes money that falls off the back of a truck if it helps beat trump.  the rest of the twitter quibbling is a distraction and a waste of time.

It may be hypocritical at best. This response properly sums everything up,

 

I don't think it's a silly "purity" test to fight like hell against Citizens United and actually take a stand and not accepting money from the wealthiest citizens that have a hugely disproportionate control over our political process.

Edited January 8, 2020 by GSU&UT

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The crazy thing to me is the Buttigieg hate on the progressive left. Here you’ve got a young, gay married mayor who is extremely accomplished and incredibly impressive and well organized as a candidate despite a ridiculously thin resume and was a progressive darling when he ran for DNC chair.
I get that everybody seems to have discovered the word “neoliberal” all at once and decided to stick his face on it, but the revulsion seems over the top.

Bernie fans try to do their best to make sure nobody else gets labeled progressive.  You even see it here with attacks on Warren and Yang as well.  Only the old white man can be a progressive Presidential candidate!  That being said, Pete does play to the center so much that its like he was trained by Bill Clinton himself.

I couldn't care less about South Bend's PD which is posted below your post and other things he faced as mayor.  He did the best he could as far as I can tell.  Entrenched racism is a nationwide issue among PDs.  That the mayor of a small midwestern city facing hard economic issues couldn't solve entrenched PD racism is no indictment of Pete.  Booker didn't change the makeup of the Newark PD either and that was in a majority black city.

[henrygandorf 29178]

9 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

It may be hypocritical at best.

of course it's hypocritical. 

9 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

I don't think it's a silly "purity" test to fight like hell against Citizens United and actually take a stand and not accepting money from the wealthiest citizens that have a hugely disproportionate control over our political process.

i understand you don't think it's silly, but it is.

billionaires can only give $2800 ($5600 counting the general).  but in these "non-pac pacs", someone can give over that limit.  is that important in the context of bernie's campaign?  no, because it has nothing to do with who he is or what he's campaigning on.  does his staff now have to take time to deal with this stupid shit?  yeah, probably.  again, it's a distraction and a waste.

to say anything else is promoting a warren-wine-cave level of double-standard.

[GSU&UT 1798]

This isn't about individual max donations dude, this is about having almost direct access to someone who could become the president of the US. I'm sorry your candidate had to pivot to Biden's lane after he couldn't find support in a younger and more diverse crowd, but so many of us see our country and our world as being honestly ruled by a class and not by a few candidates that won elections. Freaking listen to this interview about someone, who isn't Amy McGrath, that makes this point exactly from the perspective of the Kentucky working class.

 

https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/bonus-episode-a-conversation-with-state-representative-charles-booker

 

The Our Revolution wasn't a huge success, I frequently heard people refer candidates who were part of Our Revolution often lose races, particular in the Sun Belt. It was  meant to try and be a more grassroots alternative to the DCCC, not to enrich Bernie. Like the response said, Bernie has no problems fundraising.

[henrygandorf 29178]

17 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

This isn't about individual max donations dude, this is about having almost direct access to someone who could become the president of the US. I'm sorry your candidate had to pivot to Biden's lane after he couldn't find support in a younger and more diverse crowd, but so many of us see our country and our world as being honestly ruled by a class and not by a few candidates that won elections. Freaking listen to this interview about someone, who isn't Amy McGrath, that makes this point exactly from the perspective of the Kentucky working class.

 

https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/bonus-episode-a-conversation-with-state-representative-charles-booker

 

The Our Revolution wasn't a huge success, I frequently heard people refer candidates who were part of Our Revolution often lose races, particular in the Sun Belt. It was  meant to try and be a more grassroots alternative to the DCCC, not to enrich Bernie. Like the response said, Bernie has no problems fundraising.

you realize we're basically arguing the same side of this, right?  dude?

i spent less than 3 minutes on twitter reading comments from that original tweet, and there are people, from "my side" making idiotic arguments about transparency and max donations (which is why i included that point).  their argument is that someone who makes a large anonymous donation will be able to somehow gain that access.  your argument is that any rich, big-name guys who make a large donation to pete (or anyone) automatically gain some sort of sway or juice or whatever you wanna call it.  both of these arguments are unfounded and based on zero evidence (zomg i heard zuckerberg hand-picked all of pete's employees!?!?!?)

the entire point is that nobody would spend the time and energy digging up stupid crap like this if not for the brave band of super-woke twitterers that have proclaimed its importance.  is access important?  of course.  is this type of "investigating" into "non-pacs"?  no, i think it's stupid, because it's stupid.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

This sucks

 

[henrygandorf 29178]

who says you can't buy love?

[bad_teammate 13132]

F-35 Lockheed Bernie waffles from isolationist to building a global network of left leaning countries.

When did he ever call himself an "isolationist"?

That's what Iraq war promoters called the anti-war movement in 2002-3. Hugo blowing dust off the neo-con playbook as we march towards a new front, impressive.

And that last half of the sentence... what are you even talking about?

And yes, Bernie wanted some of the F-35 program done in Vermont to create jobs in his state. Not sure what your point here is either. Him living in a society?

---------
@henrygandorf

Not that you're interested in truth here, but Our Revolution primarily does local stuff. Their Brazoria county branch meets at the local Bass Pro Shop to coordinate about local politics.

It is not like candidate fundraising dinners or candidate Super PACs. The organization was founded by Bernie to organize a national political movement beyond himself as a candidate. That's the opposite of candidate PACs and fundraisers.

They will release their numbers when legally obligated to and it will be nothing.

Libs are going to end up killing it with aspersions, though, like they killed ACORN.

-----------
@Bozo_Casanova

Why would anyone care about Pete being gay or young? The left isn't hurting for representation like conservatives.

He was a two term mayor in a small town, what do you mean by "accomplished"?

His policies don't align with what the young left wants. This isn't complicated.

[henrygandorf 29178]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

@henrygandorf

Not that you're interested in truth here, but Our Revolution primarily does local stuff. Their Brazoria county branch meets at the local Bass Pro Shop to coordinate about local politics.

It is not like candidate fundraising dinners or candidate Super PACs. The organization was founded by Bernie to organize a national political movement beyond himself as a candidate. That's the opposite of candidate PACs and fundraisers.

They will release their numbers when legally obligated to and it will be nothing.

Libs are going to end up killing it with aspersions, though, like they killed ACORN.

 

ok.

someone else posted it, and after a couple of minutes of "research", my suspicions were confirmed - that it's a total non-issue, a waste of time, and stupid to even discuss.  which is what i've said a few times since then.

every now and then you should read my posts instead of just assuming what my content will look like.  i don't walk lock-step with everything pete says and certainly don't align myself fully with pete supporters on twitter.  anyone on "my side" attacking this is idiotic.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

36 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This sucks

 

As long as she doesn't immediately endorse him or something, I don't think that sucks at all.  Her organization is doing good work to stop voter suppression and they need all the money they can get.  $5 million is not small.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Nope.

Even in that last post you're trying to equate Our Revolution with the wine caves and private receptions. Not even vaguely close to the same thing.

Our Revolution is a genuine, grassroots organization pushing for small progressive candidates nationwide. Bernie has no role in it.

The wine caves and private receptions are a problem. They exist only for that candidate and the people are literally buying access to the candidate. Candidates then give special access to these high level donors. (Pete will not rule out giving positions to high level donors.)

You can think that's OK. The vast majority of candidates do.

I don't. Many other voters don't.

And no, it's not about their individual max donation, it's about their bundling.

[henrygandorf 29178]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

(Pete will not rule out giving positions to high level donors.)

he said whomever he hired will be there based on qualifications, merit, and readiness.  shouldn't that be how all jobs work?

wasn't it bernie who said he would fill his administration with his donors?

[henrygandorf 29178]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The wine caves and private receptions are a problem. They exist only for that candidate and the people are literally buying access to the candidate. Candidates then give special access to these high level donors.

and the reason i pointed this out is because warren herself used to allow access to high-dollar fundraisers as well, and that money helped support her in her presidential run.  i don't think she did it for any type of corrupt reason, and i don't think pete is either.  to say otherwise is personal bias or at the very least a double-standard.

[Js1 85112]

24 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

As long as she doesn't immediately endorse him or something, I don't think that sucks at all.  Her organization is doing good work to stop voter suppression and they need all the money they can get.  $5 million is not small.

This. If Delaney, Bloomberg and Steyer all donated $5 million to the org, we’d be in excellent shape 

[StruggleBus 3922]

On 1/3/2020 at 9:57 AM, bad_teammate said:

Yang's characterization of the impact of automation isn't a serious candidate addressing a serious issue, it's a dork candidate talking about sci-fi. And as a dork who likes sci-fi, I appreciate that, but the idea that we're all on the verge of being replaced by AI is laughable.

Sounds like something a robot would say

[GRHorn 105]

Are any of y’all concerned about Nance’s delay in sending over articles to Senate? Not much longer and it will run into Iowa and New Hampshire. Twitter conspiracy theorists speculating that it’s her way of helping someone like Biden. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

wasn't it bernie who said he would fill his administration with his donors?

Are you Chris Cillizza?

Repeat the quote, henry.

[henrygandorf 29178]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Repeat the quote, henry.

 

"i will fill my administration with my donors".

 

**yes, we all know what he meant, but you've taught me how much fun it is to mischaracterize quotes and i just wanted to try it.

[Js1 85112]

 

[henrygandorf 29178]

also i don't get the cillizza parallel.  didn't he just try to point out that warren's messaging about the drone attack had somehow changed from the night of to the following days?  kinda silly.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

[bad_teammate 13132]

also i don't get the cillizza parallel. 

He's extremely lame and issues shitty takes like the jokey gotcha thing you just tried.

[henrygandorf 29178]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He's extremely lame and issues shitty takes like the jokey gotcha thing you just tried.

 

well i'm definitely lame and jokey.  but didn't you think there was a change in warren's messaging too?  i didn't see any issue with what she said any of the times.

Edited January 8, 2020 by henrygandorf

[henrygandorf 29178]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

so has bernie ruled out giving positions to donors?

[Guest Lobo]

So the average donation is $18, Bernie?  Got it.  I assume the outliers are on the low end, $1?  I wonder what they are on the high end?  Arithmetic means and medians don't mean shit anymore.  But thanks for the cloak.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

No one is buying a spot in the Sanders White House. And no one is buying his time as candidate.

Appoint a small dollar donor? That's fine, that $20 didn't get you face time.

Appoint a bundler or host of a high dollar reception? No.

Not Me, Bus

As for Warren, I've no interest in defending her on this. I think her evolution on this is somewhat cynical and calculated.

The high horse shit about not appointing donors as ambassadors is silly. Who cares about ambassadors?

The real problem is positions with real power. Bernie isn't going to have Goldman Sachs running fiscal policy. Bernie isn't going to have Raytheon running defense policy. Bernie isn't going to have charter school execs and book/test publishers running education.

He won't fall for the "smartest guys in the room" bullshit.

[bad_teammate 13132]

So the average donation is $18, Bernie?  Got it.  I assume the outliers are on the low end, $1?  I wonder what they are on the high end?  Arithmetic means and medians don't mean shit anymore.  But thanks for the cloak.  

$2.70 and $4.20 are the low end numbers for us bros.

If Pete's high dollar donations were all online, no access, no one would care.

The access is the issue.

-------------------
"If you want to get on the campaign's radar now before he is flooded with donations after winning Iowa and New Hampshire, you can use the link below for donations," the (Buttigieg) bundler wrote to a potential donor.
--------------------

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

19 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

-----------
@Bozo_Casanova

Why would anyone care about Pete being gay or young? The left isn't hurting for representation like conservatives.

He was a two term mayor in a small town, what do you mean by "accomplished"?

His policies don't align with what the young left wants. This isn't complicated.

 

I don't think they know what his "policies" are (and I don't either, because candidates don't have policies), but even if they did, a lack of alignment doesn't explain the hate. I mean they just seem to hate the fuck out of him, and they liked him 2 years ago. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

17 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

 

He should have said, "no, because that's dumb. Why would she rule out donors?"

[GSU&UT 1798]

44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't think they know what his "policies" are (and I don't either, because candidates don't have policies), but even if they did, a lack of alignment doesn't explain the hate. I mean they just seem to hate the fuck out of him, and they liked him 2 years ago. 

Despite what a few posters here keep posting, it's absolutely clear to us that Pete shifted big towards a more centrist lane after using what's become more standard progressive talking points. That big of a change makes you look spineless and cynical and despite whatever your opinion is (and I do respect it a lot) that is what most young people, who are more active on twitter than the olds, think.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

40 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Despite what a few posters here keep posting, it's absolutely clear to us that Pete shifted big towards a more centrist lane after using what's become more standard progressive talking points. That big of a change makes you look spineless and cynical and despite whatever your opinion is (and I do respect it a lot) that is what most young people, who are more active on twitter than the olds, think.

Totally anecdotal, but your last sentence (with respect to Pete) does seem to be the case for the young people of eligible voting age in our family.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't think they know what his "policies" are (and I don't either, because candidates don't have policies), but even if they did, a lack of alignment doesn't explain the hate. I mean they just seem to hate the fuck out of him, and they liked him 2 years ago. 

When Pete began advocating for progressive policies, then started running attack ads against candidates for advocating for those same policies (because in his words they were “too polarizing”), he demonstrated that he’s not in this to do the right thing.  

He’s in this out of pure craven political ambition and he’s more of a follower than a leader.  I can see how that might appeal to some folks because “that makes him smart.”  However, just because you’re politically savvy doesn’t mean you’re the best person to serve the public good as President which, idealistically, is what this is ultimately supposed to be about. 
 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[GRHorn 105]

Impressive 

[horncyclist 1386]

5 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Impressive 

I saw a bloomberg ad and the first half was attacking Trump. Wonder how much of that $150 mil is against Trump. That's a little encouraging at least. 

[Biff Tannen 45499]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

When Pete began advocating for progressive policies, then started running attack ads against candidates for advocating for those same policies (because in his words they were “too polarizing”), he demonstrated that he’s not in this to do the right thing.  

He’s in this out of pure craven political ambition and he’s more of a follower than a leader.  I can see how that might appeal to some folks because “that makes him smart.”  However, just because you’re politically savvy doesn’t mean you’re the best person to serve the public good as President which, idealistically, is what this is ultimately supposed to be about. 
 

That pic is horrifying.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Running attack ads against M4A is going to make young people hate you, because young people love Bernie.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

He’s in this out of pure craven political ambition and he’s more of a follower than a leader.

- Hugo, self-proclaimed hater of punditry without substance.

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.

The reason I turned on him (I would still vote for him in the general of course) is because he did such an about face.  Everyone else that is still left has pretty much stayed the course with their beliefs the entire way.  Pete is the only one who looks like he's trying to game the system and we have enough of that already.

[Js1 85112]

16 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.

I think he’s a smarmy bitch who calculated what would make him most likely POTUS since he was 18. The leap from mayor of SB to POTUS is ludicrous by itself before you put Pete’s face on the idea. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

26 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.

Partially, but the venom comes from the heel turn. He started off as an interesting progressive figure saying cool shit like Hillary's campaign sucked and Republicans can't be trusted and that he supported M4A. Then he changed.

There's also a snobs vs slobs thing.

And he talks like a fucking asshole.

[GSU&UT 1798]

I do think he catches a lot of shit from millennials because he's a generational traitor of sorts, we're sacked with debt, understand how awful health insurance companies are, and for him to act as if we can't take radical steps towards solving those issues really just exposes his privilege particularly given his age.

I don't think random young people on the street are going to show this same anger, but a lot of 20 and early 30 somethings on Twitter see his work at a grotesque entity like McKinsey (which, yes maybe they didn't know much about before, but understand its role now) as completely not caring about the ethics of his job when he had the ability to practically work anywhere.

Edited January 9, 2020 by GSU&UT

[FondrenRoad 4378]

41 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.

How does being senator qualify someone for president?  I guess Senators manage their staff, but being senator provides no real applicable management experience.  If I was ordering jobs by applicable experience, I'd go governor>general>large city mayor>COO>small city mayor>CEO>senator

[Js1 85112]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

How does being senator qualify someone for president?  I guess Senators manage their staff, but being senator provides no real applicable management experience.  If I was ordering jobs by applicable experience, I'd go governor>general>large city mayor>COO>small city mayor>CEO>senator

They have a decent understanding of the legislative process to know who to use and how to get their agenda through. Especially those who served on Armed Forces/Foreign Relations/Homeland Security have an actual understanding of foreign policy. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Bernie has mayoral and Senatorial experience.

Checkmate