2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hank Kingsley 20676]

A strong field? No. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Nope. Trump was the best campaign/candidate combination and overcame a strong field. Not sure what about the Trump phenomenon you think is at odds with my thesis.

My head just exploded.

If the metric is “which GOP candidate could out nihilist the others” then your statement makes sense.

Trump did draw the crowds and generate energy tho

Edited January 7, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Nope. Trump was the best campaign/candidate combination and overcame a strong field. Not sure what about the Trump phenomenon you think is at odds with my thesis.

Strong field ?  Were it a strong field he wouldn't have gotten out of the primaries.  A strong field would have been able to challenge his rhetoric with an actual message and game plan.  Trump was the beneficiary of Hillary, a weak GOP field, and an electorate tired of inside the beltway politicians

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Hillary

LMAO never miss an opportunity 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

LMAO never miss an opportunity 

And you think she wasn't a factor in his win ?  She won the popular vote and yet still lost to Trump for God sake.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What would help, more centrist garbage sabotaging the only genuine and real enthusiasm that exists? It is absolutely amazing to watch the centrists go out of their way to attack Sanders over and over and over and over again with this non-specific BS.

Sanders and Warren are essentially the only two potential candidates of actual substance, and this is genuinely what bothers the center/center-right faction of the Democratic establishment.

They would rather let the nation burn to the ground than to lose their power within the supposed "left" leaning party.

I think the nebulous "electability" issue is helped.  People anticipate a not-wide appeal for Bernie in a general so don't risk a nomination of him when he's facing an ideologically shifted primary.

[Ghost of LL 15469]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Legitimate question, why should someone support Bernie over Warren? 

Another legitimate question: why would someone support either over Kamala Harris?

[bad_teammate 13132]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Legitimate question, why should someone support Bernie over Warren? 

They're different people and I have no real interest in pitting them against each other in an overly critical way. I think Sanders is the (far) better of two good options.

Sanders abhors the concept of both extreme wealth and generational wealth. In the Sanders vision, there really shouldn't be such a thing as a billionaire, because one can only attain that status by (1) hording shared resources and (2) exploiting the underpaid labor of others. The wealth class is necessarily exploitative, not because the individuals are uniquely wired that way, but because the class structure itself creates abusive dynamics. The wider the class disparities are, the worse the exploitation gets. The smoother the class curve, the less abusive the system overall is. He thinks largely in terms of class, which he should, because class inequality is the primary driver of all inequality.

Powerful Lib Brain: "Oh, well, if he thinks class is the most important determinant of rights, he must not care about blacks and women! BERNIE BROS!"

Here he is in 1963

This was Bernie Sanders while Hillary Clinton was LITERALLY CAMPAIGNING FOR BARRY GOLDWATER. I don't bring her up to just bash Hillary, but to illustrate how profoundly deranged the centrists are on this entire issue. They look at a man who has spent his entire life fighting for the civil and economics right of the oppressed and think he's LESS COMPASSIONATE than the dead-eyed political vampires who dab on Ellen.

Sanders is real.

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Another legitimate question: why would someone support either over Kamala Harris? 

I don't know her or her policy positions very well. I'd be happy to hear the details and listen to the overall story.

[bad_teammate 13132]

9 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I think the nebulous "electability" issue is helped.  People anticipate a not-wide appeal for Bernie in a general so don't risk a nomination of him when he's facing an ideologically shifted primary. 

This just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Bernie started with basically zero name recognition and had the entire Democratic establishment against him and still gave Hillary a run for her money in 2016. The man packed (and still packs) arenas.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Another legitimate question: why would someone support either over Kamala Harris?

Because I have no idea who Harris is other than checking a lot of superficial boxes.  

Warren and Bernie have proven they’re in this game for what they believe are the right reasons.

They’ve been remarkably consistent and determined their entire lives.  

[G650 14074]

39 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you sleep through the 2016 GOP primaries?

Um, Trump won the election. You are proving him right. He isn't saying it's the best for the country.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Bernie started with basically zero name recognition and had the entire Democratic establishment against him and still gave Hillary a run for her money in 2016. The man packed (and still packs) arenas.

True, which is why they want him to pull out.  He almost won the primary.  The thought is it would be super pyrric because it would have followed with a general wipeout.  If we do that again in 2020, we get four more of Trump.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

[Guest Lobo]

Because Hillary was busy taking on Wall Street and standing up to the Big Banks.  While Bernie was playing sound-bite games, she was doing the yeoman's work.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I’m not going to lie, I have real issues with Bernie.  I like his passion and candor but there’s something that rubs me the wrong way about him hijacking the Democratic Party every four years.  It’s a very Trump thing to do and really disrespectful to the people that play by rules and carry their own weight within the party.  There’s also the whole Russia thing but I’m not going to let that influence how I feel about his ideas. 

[Guest Lobo]

Probably because every 4-6 years despite his raising of several progressive key talking points and engaging several fringe voters back into the mainstream Democrat voter pool, Congressional leadership fucks him over with regard to committee assignment.  Shit, Speaker Bonnen is being nicer to the Democrats than Democrats are to Bernie who at least has a caucus with him and let him lead in part.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not going to lie, I have real issues with Bernie.  I like his passion and candor but there’s something that rubs me the wrong way about him hijacking the Democratic Party every four years.  It’s a very Trump thing to do and really disrespectful to the people that play by rules and carry their own weight within the party.  There’s also the whole Russia thing but I’m not going to let that influence how I feel about his ideas. 

You typed that and thought to hit post ?  Play by the rules ? Jeebus, tell us another one Uncle story teller man

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

You typed that and thought to hit post ?  Play by the rules ? Jeebus, tell us another one Uncle story teller man

Play by the rules means helping the Democratic Party in down times, like fundraising and organizing.  Bernie wants the glory without the hard work others put in behind the scenes.

[Guest Lobo]

I can't believe I have to defend him to you, but you think Bernie wants glory without the hard work?  

Yeah, one thing that fucking Sanders guy has been doing is coasting on his good looks and high-level connections and famous family. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Lobo

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, Lobo said:

I can't believe I have to defend him to you guys, but you think Bernie wants glory without the hard work?  

Yeah, one thing that fucking Sanders guy has been doing is costing on his good looks and high-level connections...

He wants to stand on the shoulders of the Democratic Party despite not being a democrat.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Play by the rules means helping the Democratic Party in down times, like fundraising and organizing.  Bernie wants the glory without the hard work others put in behind the scenes.

 Once again party uber alles.  The party picked its candidate before the primaries even began. A couple years before to be honest.  Bernie doesn't seem to have ever worked for glory.  Mrs. Clinton on the other hand..........

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He wants to stand on the shoulders of the Democratic Party despite not being a democrat.

Wait a minute, did you just tacitly admit that someone can have views outside of one of the two major parties and not have to be lumped in with the other party as a result?  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Wait a minute, did you just tacitly admit that someone can have views outside of one of the two major parties and not have to be lumped in with the other party as a result?  

Not really but that is true. 

I guess what I’m saying is at some level, I don’t trust Bernie.  I believe he tells the truth for the most part and his intentions are good but there’s too many red flags for me to go all in on Bernie. 

Of course I’d still vote for him over any GOP candidate

[Bama Chick 28596]

Bernie’s a sexist old fart.

And he’s got a serious lack of appeal to people of color.

He creeps me out.

He acts entitled and grumpy.

Add all those things up and I’m turned off before I’ve even bothered to learn about his policies and positions.

The democratic nominee in 2020 CANNOT win without women and people of color. Period.

The Bernie Bros need to face that truth.

It’s shallow. It’s ignorant. It’s fucking reality.

[Foosters 17725]

Just now, Bama Chick said:

Bernie’s a sexist old fart.

And he’s got a serious lack of appeal to people of color.

He creeps me out.

He acts entitled and grumpy.

Add all those things up and I’m turned off before I’ve even bothered to learn about his policies and positions.

The democratic nominee in 2020 CANNOT win without women and people of color. Period.

The Bernie Bros need to face that truth.

It’s shallow. It’s ignorant. It’s fucking reality.

Cool. personality over positions.

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Cool. personality over positions.

It is what it is. Hope the Dems come to grips with that before they nominate someone that loses to Trump, again. Now is not the time to make a statement. Now is the time to get Trump the fuck out of power.

Edited January 7, 2019 by BradInATX

[G650 14074]

Bernie is a fucking clown.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Cool. personality over positions.

Or a career of pretty much selfless service without getting rich because of his position.

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

7 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Cool. personality over positions.

We can whine about it, or we can win.

[F250 28674]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He wants to stand on the shoulders of the Democratic Party despite not being a democrat.

More than likely he is using his influence to drag the Dems to the left. Third party candidates are only effective as spoilers, if the Dems don't want Bernie fucking shit up then they need to include his politics into their platform. This is how it works in a Two Party system.

 

 

[Foosters 17725]

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

We can whine about it, or we can win.

That's what I'm doing? Whining?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

That's what I'm doing? Whining?

Well you're not winning.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Cool. personality over positions.

Like I said, it’s shallow and ignorant and reality.

It sucks but the alternative is another four years of the orange monster.

And I don’t think this country can survive that.

We may not survive the next two.

And it’s not only personality. Bernie has serious flaws on a lot of fronts.

And how he escapes having stupid think piece articles about his likability being written while female candidates like Warren and Clinton are plagued with them is rage inducing.

In a perfect world, elections would be all about the issues and policies. To pretend that personality and popularity and yes, likability don’t matter is ignoring reality.

[Gatorubet 30083]

That's what I'm doing? Whining?

Your lips are moving and you’re complaining about something....that’s whinging.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Foosters 17725]

1 minute ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Well you're not winning.

What a curious take. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

More than likely he is using his influence to drag the Dems to the left. Third party candidates are only effective as spoilers, if the Dems don't want Bernie fucking shit up then they need to include his politics into their platform. This is how it works in a Two Party system.

That’s fine.  Why doesn’t he work his influence magic within the party 100% of the time like AOC?  Why does he disown the (D) by his name when he’s not running for president?   Why can’t he be proud to be a democrat? 

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

That's what I'm doing? Whining?

Not you specifically.  Just anyone who seems flabbergasted at the opinion that some highly qualified people (who admittedly would probably be great Presidents) should not be the nominee.  We can ignore what the general public has indicated to us and nominate the "best" candidate, electability be damned, and act surprised in November 2020.  Or we can find someone that has a shot at winning over the general population.  

It sucks.  There's absolutely a double standard between the two parties.  But it is reality. There is no universe where Trump is more qualified to be President than Hillary.  How much did that matter in November 2016?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s fine.  Why doesn’t he work his influence magic within the party 100% of the time like AOC?  Why does he disown the (D) by his name when he’s not running for president?   Why can’t he be proud to be a democrat? 

What magic has she worked ?  Besides beating an incumbent.

[Foosters 17725]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Like I said, it’s shallow and ignorant and reality.

It sucks but the alternative is another four years of the orange monster.

And I don’t think this country can survive that.

We may not survive the next two.

And it’s not only personality. Bernie has serious flaws on a lot of fronts.

And how he escapes having stupid think piece articles about his likability being written while female candidates like Warren and Clinton are plagued with them is rage inducing.

In a perfect world, elections would be all about the issues and policies. To pretend that personality and popularity and yes, likability don’t matter is ignoring reality.

 

I guess I'll preface this by saying I am not, nor have I ever been, a Bernie supporter.  I just found it odd that an educated person would so easily dismiss a candidate for things like "seems grumpy," and then would admit that this perceived character trait would be enough to foreclose further inspection of said candidate. 

I will agree that women candidates are the victims of an unfair double standard when it comes to likability. No question there.  I will say, however, that  I do recall a lot of similar stuff about Bernie in 2016. 

 

[Foosters 17725]

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Not you specifically.  Just anyone who seems flabbergasted at the opinion that some highly qualified people (who admittedly would probably be great Presidents) should not be the nominee.  We can ignore what the general public has indicated to us and nominate the "best" candidate, electability be damned, and act surprised in November 2020.  Or we can find someone that has a shot at winning over the general population.  

It sucks.  There's absolutely a double standard between the two parties.  But it is reality. There is no universe where Trump is more qualified to be President than Hillary.  How much did that matter in November 2016?

I don't disagree with any of that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

What magic has she worked ?  Besides beating an incumbent.

Do you even Fox News or 60 Minutes?  She’s grabbing national platforms left and right.  That’s how you work magic.

[hayden_horn 11360]

9 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Well you're not winning.

i was told that we would be tired of all the winning by now

[Ghost of LL 15469]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Powerful Lib Brain: "Oh, well, if he thinks class is the most important determinant of rights, he must not care about blacks and women! BERNIE BROS!"

Here he is in 1963

This was Bernie Sanders while Hillary Clinton was LITERALLY CAMPAIGNING FOR BARRY GOLDWATER. I don't bring her up to just bash Hillary, but to illustrate how profoundly deranged the centrists are on this entire issue. They look at a man who has spent his entire life fighting for the civil and economics right of the oppressed and think he's LESS COMPASSIONATE than the dead-eyed political vampires who dab on Ellen.

 

You don't bring Hillary up to bash her; you bring her up to set fire to a profoundly-deranged centrist strawman that you've created.

Good show.

Meanwhile, what you've demonstrated above anything else is that Bernie is fucking old.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

My head just exploded.
If the metric is “which GOP candidate could out nihilist the others” then your statement makes sense.
Trump did draw the crowds and generate energy tho

Winning seems like a pretty important metric.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Do you even Fox News or 60 Minutes?  She’s grabbing national platforms left and right.  That’s how you work magic.

I'm sorry, grabbing media attention is not magic, it's just attention for a photogenic candidate who defeated an incumbent, and hasn't articulated a clear answer to any of her plans for free stuff.

What has she done, what has she accomplished ?  Nothing other than win an election.  Ya might wanna hold off on fapping to her success till she actually backs up her win with some success in Congress.

[G650 14074]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

. Ya might wanna hold off on fapping to her

Well, I don't know about that.

[Foosters 17725]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm sorry, grabbing media attention is not magic, it's just attention for a photogenic candidate who defeated an incumbent, and hasn't articulated a clear answer to any of her plans for free stuff.

What has she done, what has she accomplished ?  Nothing other than win an election.  Ya might wanna hold off on fapping to her success till she actually backs up her win with some success in Congress.

Perhaps she should simply state that Mexico will pay for it.  That seems to work on about half the voting population.

[Bama Chick 28596]

The grumpy stuff was just me being bitchy.

My main point was put him up against candidates like Beto or Kamala Harris or Biden and he doesn’t have the juice to win over the voters the Democrats need to win.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, G650 said:

Well, I don't know about that.

Shit, yeah that was over the line. I keep forgetting the crowd here...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

16 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Winning seems like a pretty important metric.

Yeah, I misunderstood your statement.  I took it as the primaries made the candidates and campaigns better.  

In 2016, the GOP devolved all the way up to the general election but this was barely noticeable because of all the criminal conspiracies going on in the background helping Trump win. 

Your original statement is true in normal times. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Bernie’s a sexist old fart.

And he’s got a serious lack of appeal to people of color.

He creeps me out.

He acts entitled and grumpy.

Add all those things up and I’m turned off before I’ve even bothered to learn about his policies and positions.

The democratic nominee in 2020 CANNOT win without women and people of color. Period.

The Bernie Bros need to face that truth.

It’s shallow. It’s ignorant. It’s fucking reality.

I'll sound like bad_teammate but Bernie's lack of appeal to those two groups is largely something that isn't true. The Democratic party really really pushed that narrative to hurt him as much as they could as well as him being basically unknown whereas Hillary has always been a household name since Bill.

Edited January 7, 2019 by GSU&UT