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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

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bonnieblue

bonnieblue 542

Posted
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Regardless of the merits of executive v legislative etc., most of the Senators still had full careers doing something for quite a while prior to becoming Senators and were often at the top of their fields (Kamala - AG; Warren - bankruptcy expert etc.) in those prior careers. Pete's experience consists of: small-town mayor for a few years and the equivalent of a like a 3rd year associate at a BigLaw firm.

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted
Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.


His “pocket change” and “shiny objects” quips did it for me.

And the fact that one of his closest advisors is Fucking Lis Smith makes him a no go for me.

She’s the literal worst and the fact that he thinks so highly of her makes me question everything about him.
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46063

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8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


His “pocket change” and “shiny objects” quips did it for me.

And the fact that one of his closest advisors is Fucking Lis Smith makes him a no go for me.

She’s the literal worst and the fact that he thinks so highly of her makes me question everything about him.

 

Shiny objects pissed me off too.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29562

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Partially, but the venom comes from the heel turn. He started off as an interesting progressive figure saying cool shit like Hillary's campaign sucked and Republicans can't be trusted and that he supported M4A. Then he changed.

There's also a snobs vs slobs thing.

And he talks like a fucking asshole.

Yeah I kind of liked him at first because he was talking about packing the courts, saying we shouldn't let Republican rhetoric dictate Democratic policy proposals because they're gonna call literally anything socialist, etc. Though it was free of any serious substance, he started his campaign clearly signalling towards progressives. When the heel turn came it was severe and it was immediate, making any rationalization for it pretty much impossible.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Man, fuck Steyer and Bloomberg.

And I swear, every other ad on YouTube is for Bloomberg.

I’d be interested to see his poll numbers broken down by age - the YouTube audience most likely skews young. I just hope all of the youngins have a good Adblocker so they won’t even see them.

Bloomberg has made the Alabama primary a big focus - why? I have no idea but besides Warren and Beto, I think he’s the only candidate that’s come here.

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Js1

Js1 86965

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22 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

It bears repeating – how much good could these guys do if they spent money on grassroots democracy efforts instead of their stupid fucking vanity run at POTUS?

 

Rolling back Voter suppression efforts like Abrams

Winning back state houses like Beto

Much better uses of $200mm  

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21602

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Buttigieg's "heel turn" is mostly a manufactured storyline pushed around on the Twitter echo chamber. I think the reality is most people weren't really paying attention to his positions, he posted that huge Iowa Selzer poll number, and then the attacks and attention started. 

He has been proposing Medicare For All Who Want it literally from the day he started his exploratory committee in January 2019. Yes, he's running ads in favor of the public option. That's what candidates are supposed to do during the primary. 

He's been pushing affordable college since at least April, and never proposed free college for all. 

Outside of those two positions, the rest of his policies are strongly in line with progressive ideals, the caveat being his spending proposals are lower. 

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Rolling back Voter suppression efforts like Abrams

Winning back state houses like Beto

Much better uses of $200mm  

For certain. Voter suppression would be a good start.

 

Side note regarding voting and voting blocs. If you ever follow NY politics, the case of the Orthodox Jewish voting in large numbers to affect policy change is interesting reading, particularly the East Ramapo School District. It is fraught with all sorts of issues: religious, public vs. private education, racial, class, you name it. It is something one would expect to see in larger numbers if our society stays as divided and divisive as it has been.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26773

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Buttigieg's "heel turn" is mostly a manufactured storyline pushed around on the Twitter echo chamber. I think the reality is most people weren't really paying attention to his positions, he posted that huge Iowa Selzer poll number, and then the attacks and attention started. 
He has been proposing Medicare For All Who Want it literally from the day he started his exploratory committee in January 2019. Yes, he's running ads in favor of the public option. That's what candidates are supposed to do during the primary. 
He's been pushing affordable college since at least April, and never proposed free college for all. 
Outside of those two positions, the rest of his policies are strongly in line with progressive ideals, the caveat being his spending proposals are lower. 
 

I agree. I think it’s a combination of prog-left moral panic and social media cancel culture.
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Posted (edited)

Pete's polling is a weird phenomenon. The "heel turn" only shows up on the Economist/Yougov poll. In the other polls, his favorable/unfavorable spread is trending slightly up, but in that Economist poll it's dropping sharply.

Weird. Wonder why. I don't know the details of these polls, but it's got to be a methodology difference.

pete.png

 

Edited by BradInATX
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workswithseed

workswithseed 2201

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Posted
20 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Thanks for the good answers, but I think I understand why they aren’t supporting him,* but I’m still not sure why he draws ire in a way that others don’t. Let me ask y’all this- could it be that because he’s a millennial that has adopted a sort of Obama-lite 3rd wayism instead of ideological progressive maximalism he’s seen as a traitor to his generation? That’s an idea I’ve seen thrown around, but I’m not sure I get that either, because he’s just not enough of a somebody to get that worked up over.


*my reason for not supported Buttigieg, btw the way, is that the idea of going from Mayor of South Bend to President is just preposterous. He’s just not prepared or qualified for the job at all.

That's what was said about Obama. I think he'll have a better time with centrist, and libs who will vote for him since he ain't Trump.

I'd probably vote for him since I don't care if rich people in wine caves give him money.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46063

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3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Neat how you can just “fake news!” what so many people noticed with their own two eyes. 

Seriously.  I've been paying attention.  I liked Pete a lot when he first started gaining traction.  He was hammering the SCOTUS format and wanted to overhaul the way government works.  Suddenly, when he realized Warren and Bernie were doing the same thing, he turned hard centrist and dropped his previous convictions.  Fuck that.  I still like him a bit, but he went from my number 1 to way down the list.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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And his “heel turn” wasn’t just his move toward the center policy wise - about the time he started gaining traction he started acting like a snarky dick.

Pete Stans will Petesplain away his policy moves to the center but I’ve yet to see much of a defense from them on his “shiny objects” and “pocket change” assholery.

Or on his closeness with Lis Smith.

They’re quick to condemn Bernie for Sirota and Turner ( and I don’t care much for them either) but tend to clam up when Lis Smith is brought up.

And don’t even get me started the way the campaign uses Chasten like some kind of mascot.

His entire campaign has the feel of a storyline on a late season of “West Wing”.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1799

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2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Rolling back Voter suppression efforts like Abrams

Winning back state houses like Beto

Much better uses of $200mm  

Bloomberg did just support Abrams' Fair Fight group with 5 million dollars. I really don't like him though and think this is more of a cynical way for him to try and win black support after being the champion of the Stop and Frisk policy.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21602

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15 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Pete Stans will Petesplain away his policy moves to the center but I’ve yet to see much of a defense from them on his “shiny objects” and “pocket change” assholery.
 

The "pocket change" quote was pared down to "We're not going to beat him with pocket change." The full answer is below. (pay no attention to the opinionated tweet, was just searching for the full quote). 

Do you have a problem with that answer? Obviously people decided to weaponize it by just pulling one sentence for maximum effect. AOC literally fundraised off of it. 

 

Also re: Pete's "shiny object" comment, I guess it was a poor choice of words, but he was right IMO. Beto was obviously very emotional about El Paso and decided to vocalize "taking guns away" from people. I love Beto, but it was a foolish political move in my opinion. There's a reason no current candidate is talking about mandatory buybacks. Even Booker has quietly backed off of it recent months. 

 

 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13482

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

If one of them wins the primary, you would and you better.  Still, let's try to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Or else what?

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Do you have a problem with that answer?

Yes. It's a snarky and elitist dismissal of the fundraising power of the people. What other interpretation do you have of it?

Quote

Also re: Pete's "shiny object" comment, I guess it was a poor choice of words, but he was right IMO.

What was he "right" about?

A "shiny object" is something that distracts children and idiots, and is used to denote something unimportant. Just because it's unimportant to him doesn't mean it's unimportant to everyone.

Pete's an asshole.

An asshole with no record and no accomplishments.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13482

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Posted
Just now, babysdaddy said:

The Bernie Bros are going to be blamed for Trump being reelected

Oh shit, Trump might win Texas over Michael Bloomberg or Tom Steyer if I leave the top line blank!?

Bernie Bros are going to be blamed by these people regardless. Facts don't matter to them.  Look at how much time they spend being mad at Twitter.

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2731

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Oh shit, Trump might win Texas over Michael Bloomberg or Tom Steyer if I leave the top line blank!?

Bernie Bros are going to be blamed by these people regardless. Facts don't matter to them.  Look at how much time they spend being mad at Twitter.

Nah, 'they' will extrapolate your attitude and apply it to the swing states that Bloomberg or Steyer (FUCK this guy) lose based on all the Bernie Bros

Edited by babysdaddy
forgot a word
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Skipper

Skipper 6406

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2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

If you don’t vote against the Dotard, regardless of who the Dems ultimately put up, you are a traitor. 

You can say that all you want but it won't matter to working class folks in swing states that have a job and a 401K.  If Bernie wins the nomination and the economy hasn't hit a bad recession, all Trump will have to do is tweet and scream "Socialist" over and over, probably in the context of Venezuela (your average voter isn't going to be bothered by any socialism nuances) and he probably wins in a landslide.   "Woke Twitter" may love Bernie but that won't win him the election.  I mean wasn't it Clinton that won with "It's the economy, stupid"?  Some things never change.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21602

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Posted
1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Seriously.  I've been paying attention.  I liked Pete a lot when he first started gaining traction.  He was hammering the SCOTUS format and wanted to overhaul the way government works.  Suddenly, when he realized Warren and Bernie were doing the same thing, he turned hard centrist and dropped his previous convictions.  Fuck that.  I still like him a bit, but he went from my number 1 to way down the list.

Pete's the only one that talks about SC reform and still discusses it. Remember the Twitter hysterics over his Justice Kennedy comments a couple of months ago?   It's not a part of his stump speech, and for good reason since it's complicated and takes a lot of time to explain. If he's asked about it, he's happy to continue talking about it.

Warren and Bernie are not "doing the same thing.". Please direct me to any comments they've made about SC reform.  In fact, the 15 judge court idea that Pete has thrown out there was introduced/written by a big time Warren advisor (Pete went to Harvard with the guy and they are still friends).  Warren and Pete want to abolish the filibuster, Bernie doesn't. Pete has talked about getting rid of the electoral college more than any other candidate. 

 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13482

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Posted

Bernie's attack: "In 2018, Biden lauded Paul Ryan for proposing cuts to Social Security and Medicare."

What Biden said: "Paul Ryan was correct when he did the tax code. What’s the first thing he decided we had to go after?" Biden said, with a slight smirk. Biden then leaned into the microphone and said in a deep menacing voice: "Social Security and Medicare." 

Biden continued: "Now, we need to do something about Social Security and Medicare." He then sarcastically whispered: "That’s the only way you can find room to pay for it." 

--------

PolitiFact doing the Sarah Huckabee Sanders dance, but for Biden instead of Trump.

You can't listen to Biden's words, you have to imagine what he might be feeling.

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29223

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Posted

you guys are awesome and so consistent.

1. he still feels the same way about restructuring the scotus, but i love that somehow that's high on his "heel turn" moments.  his stance on m4awwi hasn't changed at all, and pointing out the difference doesn't qualify as a "vicious attack ad".  he's highlighted and pushed forward parts of his campaign that he feels voter care about.  it's not a nationally winning strategy (nothing is for pete in 2020), but it's obviously working well in iowa and new hampshire - and those people don't care about wine caves.  i would love to see evidence of an actual "heel turn".  saying "he turned hard towards centrist" doesn't count as an example, it's just another way of saying "heel turn", which has somehow turned into some magic phrase to justify your opinions. 

2. the pocket change quote was accurate.  trump has all the resources in the world, and it will take a lot to beat him.  this means the dem running against him will have to raise a shit-ton to compete.  bernie has structure in place to turn grassroots movement into top dollar fundraising.  not everyone has that, especially a no-name small-town mayor 6 months into his campaign.  warren herself was considering high-dollar fundraising in the general not that long ago, but she reversed field on that.  it's not an outrageous strategy.  anyone taking that quote personally is trying too hard.  the quote is accurate, ruffled feathers be damned.  woke twitter can find something new to clutch their pearls over.

3. the shiny objects quote, though originating with chris coons (when pete was asked to comment), is also accurate, and has proven moreso over time.  the republicans love to distract from making actual progress on gun control.  how's that progress coming along now, several months later?  it's a fucked up problem (and i've been clear on my stance on guns) but one of the problems dems have with it is getting an organized, consistent message together on it.  nobody seems to be pulling in the same direction, so nothing gets done.  once again, a pull quote gets way more play than it should because a large group of voters/tweeters simply don't like him.

bottom line - if the pull quotes bother you enough to not like him, you were gonna find a reason to not like him anyway.  and that's fine.  for bama chick specifically, i don't love lis smith either, and you won't see me defending her on here (or anywhere). 

otherwise, when a quote is taken completely out of context, or someone on twitter misrepresents something that happened, yeah, some people on here will stand up for pete and explain, if the situation warrants it.  to use that as an example is a no-win situation.  if the bullshit tweet sits, people use it as justification.  if someone actually explains it (like that ridiculous healthcare half-quote that the tweeter eventually apologized for and corrected), then it's "oh, here come the pete-stans with their pete-splaining (i actually do like that word too, btw).

it's ok to just say "i don't like him".  you don't even need a good reason.  but man, you guys sure have made an effort coming up with some bad ones.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21602

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Posted

What's funny about the Pete hate coming from former Beto, Castro, and Kamala supporters is that if ANY of them were polling near the top right now in Iowa and NH, they would be getting KILLED by progressive Twitter/journalists as well. 

They'd talk about how Beto is a uber wealthy centrist in the pocket of Big Oil who tried to leave the scene of a DUI when he was younger. 

Kamala ,well, the progressives killed Kamala's campaign fairly quickly. 

Castro would be an Obama/Clinton establishment lackey who fucked up big time at HUD, and was a glorified councilman in a weak mayor system in San Antonio. 

But your candidate lost, your feelings are still hurt, and you're not only fine with them doing this shit to another candidate, but joining in.  Cool cool. 

 

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