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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26773

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Hi yes, let me introduce you to the modern GOP party. Any democratic candidate is going to be "uniquely unlikable" for whatever reason. Leftists hate most of the candidates besides Bernie, big-brained market wonks hate Bernie and somewhat Warren, etc. The electability argument is the absolute last thing we need to worry about, it's time to stop being cowards and worrying about everyone else but yourself.

No, not really. Hillary Clinton's problems are pretty unique to her and almost totally self-inflicted.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90550

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

I'm not going to argue that and really feel like we'll see the same things repeat if Biden wins the nomination.

Biden doesn't have decades of hatred from the GOP and more than a few independents like Hillary had.

Trump knows this.  That's why Trump is so fixated on Hunter - he's doing everything he can to gin up the same level of hatred and angst against Joe Biden as he tapped into with Hillary, and he and the Republicans just can't do it.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46064

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5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump knows this.  That's why Trump is so fixated on Hunter - he's doing everything he can to gin up the same level of hatred and angst against Joe Biden as he tapped into with Hillary, and he and the Republicans just can't do it.

True, but I'm not sure I agree with the end.  Wait and see how they react when we are down to one candidate.  The hate machine will go into overdrive.

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Js1

Js1 86980

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23 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Biden will absolutely get some white Obama-Trump people that hated Hillary. He's more likable.

Infinitely. The “never Hillary” independent voters won’t be as motivated I think in 2020. They don’t love Trump, but they don’t loathe Biden. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

I'm very privileged because of my race, upbringing, and how those enabled me to save and pivot to software where I make probably way too much money for the amount of work I perform. Would absolutely not mind paying more in taxes for universal healthcare, much better and more equal access in primary education, large scale public transit, etc. I know lots of people my age who think similarly, and unsurprisingly meet older people who think that is somehow actual communism.

We can hem and haw about the ramifications of more robust social systems and the welfare state, but these ideas are only becoming more popular with millennials and zoomers. I do see this becoming something the US shifts towards even if Biden wins in 2020 and every non-woke Twitter leftist thinks we've somehow returned to normalcy.

I'm a first generation college graduate and my background was a class that was traditionally not thought of as college material so I know that where I am today was not an opportunity that everyone had. It really troubles me though when I listen to folks at a gathering railing about how they "worked their way through college (I did as well) graduating without debt and these kids today expect everything handed to them." Those two ideas are not mutually exclusive, of course, but the complete ignorance regarding tuition deregulation, the cost of living, and wage stagnation from other college graduates leaves me biting my tongue so my husband doesn't have to surreptitiously step on my foot. (I don't know why he's worried I'm going to say something; although I have as much tact as a brick to the face, I save any nagging and lectures and soapbox speeches for our children.)

I have benefited from mentors and others giving me the gifts of their time, their patience, and their wisdom. I simply do not understand why others do not pay those similar gifts forward or only believe that people "just like them" are worthy of those benefits. I benefited from the hardworking taxpayers, both with and without college degrees, who came before me who supported my education at a state institution of higher learning at a proportion that kept my tuition manageable so that I could then graduate and join the the citizens who in turn support the next generation, hopefully first generation attendees in order to provide the biggest bang for the buck.

What I fear is that the undermining and subterfuge of the powerful never really lets us give modern everyday Americans the chance to have robust social institutions complete with robust fair business economies. The powerful aren't stupid but they sure would like us to be.

 

Oh dear, that was my soapbox and I should have saved that for the children. Ah well, nevertheless.

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pacman

pacman 7494

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1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

It's amazing how many people will unthinkingly parrot lies told by rich people who don't give a shit about them and have been actively stealing from them for decades (even leaving out the question of surplus value).

spacer.png

These rich assholes are robbing you blind bruh.  

The newest(updated to 2018) graph is slightly improved, but not much better.

spacer.png

 

i had a noted Trumper on my timeline when I posted this awhile back agree with my post. "Look what they are doing to us!" or some shit.

I pointed out Trump's method of doing business would be a direct benefactor of this graph's representation.

He was mad, at me of course, not Trump.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Dear Mr. Steyer,

Consider this a good time to renew your subscriptions to the Book-of-the-Month Club, the BMG Compact Disc-by-Mail Club, and Capper's Home Weekly. Your funds towards these stalwart and robust businesses is probably better spent than anything you can possibly do going forward for your campaign. Failing that, would you at least send some $$ toward Democratic House and Senate candidates to show you're a good sport?

Sincerely,

 

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Js1

Js1 86980

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Still anyone’s ball game in Iowa

 

Axlerod called it a jump ball. And he’s right. Especially if almost half can change their minds. 

Edited by Js1
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29223

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2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Axlerod called it a jump ball. And he’s right. Especially if almost half can change their minds. 

great timing too with the debate there next week.

this is how it's supposed to work.

6 qualified so far, not sure what the deadline is or if anyone else is on the verge.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

great timing too with the debate there next week.

this is how it's supposed to work.

6 qualified so far, not sure what the deadline is or if anyone else is on the verge.

How did Steyer qualify (besides money)? Polls? Really? He is the oddest duck. My spouse is not one to comment much but does keep abreast of the news, but a Steyer commercial comes on and he just shakes his head.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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16 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

How did Steyer qualify (besides money)? Polls? Really? He is the oddest duck. My spouse is not one to comment much but does keep abreast of the news, but a Steyer commercial comes on and he just shakes his head.

The billionaires flood the airwaves with ads to get their name recognition on the level of the front runners so when aunt Betty gets randomly polled in Nevada she’s heard of that nice man Tom Steyer from the radio. 

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Js1

Js1 86980

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23 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

How did Steyer qualify (besides money)? Polls? Really? He is the oddest duck. My spouse is not one to comment much but does keep abreast of the news, but a Steyer commercial comes on and he just shakes his head.

He’s running a shit ton of ads in SC and NV almost by himself. That’s why. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted
Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

What?!

I know, I know, the Mrs. part of Mrs. Whiggins always confuses people.

 

Back to Steyer, though. The ad buys make sense, I don't follow radio much and the television ads are when I usually get up to go do something else unless it's a good football game (football ad times are often amusing at least). Although the people who do all of the demographic targeting probably have our house completely figured out, we are probably outliers when it comes to certain viewing habits.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Nearly everyone that works in this area as career “professionals” are certified douche bag pieces of shit.  Frank Luntz, Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon.  They’re all soulless vampires that would get Hitler elected if the price is right. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

And? Who would you take a class in that from? Bob Shrum? Mark Penn? Amanda Renteria?

 

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nearly everyone that works in this area as career “professionals” are certified douche bag pieces of shit.  Frank Luntz, Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon.  They’re all soulless vampires that would get Hitler elected if the price is right. 

But perhaps you can study what people do so as to learn what path you wish to follow for positive gain? You don't have to join the "soulless vampires" to understand what the strategy is and to be aware that others may use those same strategies for other purposes.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Recent article about Rove in the Observer:

https://www.texasobserver.org/the-return-of-karl-rove/

He's back to keep Texas from turning blue. I have no objection to staying informed and abreast of what strategies others are using and may be using against you. The GOP are going after the seats they lost to Democrats and he is helping with some super PAC to try and stem the purple to blue takeover.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26773

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Recent article about Rove in the Observer:
https://www.texasobserver.org/the-return-of-karl-rove/
He's back to keep Texas from turning blue. I have no objection to staying informed and abreast of what strategies others are using and may be using against you. The GOP are going after the seats they lost to Democrats and he is helping with some super PAC to try and stem the purple to blue takeover.

Considering that Democrats lost Texas because the institution failed and the party was controlled by recidivist losers for 20 years, they would do well to listen to Karl Rove or anyone else who has demonstrated the ability to win elections.
TDP has BEGUN to recover from the shipwreck period*, but there’s a long way to go.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

 

But perhaps you can study what people do so as to learn what path you wish to follow for positive gain? You don't have to join the "soulless vampires" to understand what the strategy is and to be aware that others may use those same strategies for other purposes.

Oh, the study of it is fascinating academically. I love it because it scratches at how our society works and thinks.  But when you take these skills and sell them out in the real world to weaponize on society without any regard for the people you might harm as a consequence, it’s douchebaggery.  

Guys like Axlerod and Rove work in deception and manipulation for profit.  I’m not a fan. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46064

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So I talked to one of my Bernie Bro buddies last night and he admitted he will probably vote 3rd party if Bernie doesn't get the nomination.  I tried my best, but I don't know how to convince these people of the severity of the situation.  They are very Trumpkin-like in their grievance that Bernie is somehow the savior and the system is rigged against him.  When I tried to explain the importance of this election, he just laughed it off and seemed to treat it like just another election.  I don't think these people can be saved and they may very well doom us all.  Luckily he lives in Texas, so his vote doesn't really count that much, but the Bernie Bros really might fuck us as a nation if Bernie doesn't win.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17924

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7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

but the Bernie Bros really might fuck us as a nation if Bernie doesn't win.

Holy shit, I've never thought about this or heard anyone make this point. Can you elaborate some because that sounds really scary and like something we should all be worrying about. Thanks for your input, it's really important. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46064

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2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Holy shit, I've never thought about this or heard anyone make this point. Can you elaborate some because that sounds really scary and like something we should all be worrying about. Thanks for your input, it's really important. 

Hey, anytime man.  Just living the dream over here.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So I talked to one of my Bernie Bro buddies last night and he admitted he will probably vote 3rd party if Bernie doesn't get the nomination.  I tried my best, but I don't know how to convince these people of the severity of the situation.  They are very Trumpkin-like in their grievance that Bernie is somehow the savior and the system is rigged against him.  When I tried to explain the importance of this election, he just laughed it off and seemed to treat it like just another election.  I don't think these people can be saved and they may very well doom us all.  Luckily he lives in Texas, so his vote doesn't really count that much, but the Bernie Bros really might fuck us as a nation if Bernie doesn't win.

“It’S bErNiE’s TuRn!”

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13482

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Posted

Kind of telling that Biff ignores the question meant to provoke a serious discussion and instead goes for the swipe. Meant as a troll from the beginning, of course.

Anyway, our categorizations of who voters are by profile are way too clean. There are a dozen different types of "Bernie Bro", and a statistically significant category of Bernie Bro is "I don't like liberals, I just really hate DC".

We saw it in the 2016 primary, Bernie brought in non-left/non-Dem voters because he was anti-establishment and independent. Once Bernie wasn't an option, those voters weren't going to fall to Hillary no matter what happened because they weren't ever there for her or Democrats in general.

The most glaring example is what happened in West Virginia.

Bernie won West Virginia by bringing in independents and Republicans. Only 23% of Sanders's WV supporters said they would go to Clinton.

These aren't irony-left Bernie Bros.
These aren't kombucha-drinking DSA Bernie Bros.
These are "I fucking hate Washington and I love independents" Bernie Bros.

Trying to convince one of those Bernie Bros to vote for Joe Biden is basically an impossible task. The only way you get those voters is by showing them that the Dem nominee is anti-establishment. Shouting, "CHEETO BAD MAN TWITTER!" at them will (rightfully) get them to ignore you.

They hate the Democratic party.

More West Virginians voted in the Democratic primary than voted for Hillary in the general election.

Bernie brings people into the tent. He brings non-Democrats into the tent. He brings unwoke white people into the tent. He brings disaffected young people into the tent. He brings in people who don't like identity politics. His appeal is broad and it goes into places that the center finds disgusting, unseemly, and unworthy.

Both Biff's and Hugo's attitude here is that the Democrats are entitled to these votes. They aren't. You have to go win them, or you lose.

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