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2020 Democratic Nominee

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17723

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Did you even listen to his story? He talked to a guy who said a thing and then extrapolated some bullshit concern trolling from it! Get the fuck out of here with facts and analysis. This is about that guy who is the avatar for all Bernie supporters and how we can stop him from handing the election to Trump on a silver platter. 

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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted
12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Kind of telling that Biff ignores the question meant to provoke a serious discussion and instead goes for the swipe. Meant as a troll from the beginning, of course.

Anyway, our categorizations of who voters are by profile are way too clean. There are a dozen different types of "Bernie Bro", and a statistically significant category of Bernie Bro is "I don't like liberals, I just really hate DC".

We saw it in the 2016 primary, Bernie brought in non-left/non-Dem voters because he was anti-establishment and independent. Once Bernie wasn't an option, those voters weren't going to fall to Hillary no matter what happened because they weren't ever there for her or Democrats in general.

The most glaring example is what happened in West Virginia.

Bernie won West Virginia by bringing in independents and Republicans. Only 23% of Sanders's WV supporters said they would go to Clinton.

These aren't irony-left Bernie Bros.
These aren't kombucha-drinking DSA Bernie Bros.
These are "I fucking hate Washington and I love independents" Bernie Bros.

Trying to convince one of those Bernie Bros to vote for Joe Biden is basically an impossible task. The only way you get those voters is by showing them that the Dem nominee is anti-establishment. Shouting, "CHEETO BAD MAN TWITTER!" at them will (rightfully) get them to ignore you.

They hate the Democratic party.

More West Virginians voted in the Democratic primary than voted for Hillary in the general election.

Bernie brings people into the tent. He brings non-Democrats into the tent. He brings unwoke white people into the tent. He brings disaffected young people into the tent. He brings in people who don't like identity politics. His appeal is broad and it goes into places that the center finds disgusting, unseemly, and unworthy.

Both Biff's and Hugo's attitude here is that the Democrats are entitled to these votes. They aren't. You have to go win them, or you lose.

I will never understand why West Virginia is some monumental triumph for Bernie.  I mean, it’s great he had success there but that state is solid red AF and Bernie would never carry WV in a general election.  Congratulations though on winning over some racists. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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As to the significance of winning WV, it is a useful data point because it indicates popularity with a class of voter that we needed to keep the Blue Wall states. Which we didn't. And now Donald Trump is president because of it.

It's electorally significant not because of WV itself, but because of how it indicates popularity among a regional demographic.

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6th Street

6th Street 6357

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Kind of telling that Biff ignores the question meant to provoke a serious discussion and instead goes for the swipe. Meant as a troll from the beginning, of course.

Anyway, our categorizations of who voters are by profile are way too clean. There are a dozen different types of "Bernie Bro", and a statistically significant category of Bernie Bro is "I don't like liberals, I just really hate DC".

We saw it in the 2016 primary, Bernie brought in non-left/non-Dem voters because he was anti-establishment and independent. Once Bernie wasn't an option, those voters weren't going to fall to Hillary no matter what happened because they weren't ever there for her or Democrats in general.

The most glaring example is what happened in West Virginia.

Bernie won West Virginia by bringing in independents and Republicans. Only 23% of Sanders's WV supporters said they would go to Clinton.

These aren't irony-left Bernie Bros.
These aren't kombucha-drinking DSA Bernie Bros.
These are "I fucking hate Washington and I love independents" Bernie Bros.

Trying to convince one of those Bernie Bros to vote for Joe Biden is basically an impossible task. The only way you get those voters is by showing them that the Dem nominee is anti-establishment. Shouting, "CHEETO BAD MAN TWITTER!" at them will (rightfully) get them to ignore you.

They hate the Democratic party.

More West Virginians voted in the Democratic primary than voted for Hillary in the general election.

Bernie brings people into the tent. He brings non-Democrats into the tent. He brings unwoke white people into the tent. He brings disaffected young people into the tent. He brings in people who don't like identity politics. His appeal is broad and it goes into places that the center finds disgusting, unseemly, and unworthy.

Both Biff's and Hugo's attitude here is that the Democrats are entitled to these votes. They aren't. You have to go win them, or you lose.

If only Bernie brought some minorities into the tent

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F250

F250 28691

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Posted
On 1/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, Fozzz said:

who tf talks like this?  

 

Shit woke white people say who spent their lives avoiding brown people.

 

On 1/10/2020 at 12:31 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

1500x500

Oh look, Warren has a brown friend.

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F250

F250 28691

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I will never understand why West Virginia is some monumental triumph for Bernie.  I mean, it’s great he had success there but that state is solid red AF and Bernie would never carry WV in a general election.  Congratulations though on winning over some racists. 

Do you even class warfare, bro?

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26284

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Posted
Did you even listen to his story? He talked to a guy who said a thing and then extrapolated some bullshit concern trolling from it! Get the fuck out of here with facts and analysis. This is about that guy who is the avatar for all Bernie supporters and how we can stop him from handing the election to Trump on a silver platter. 

Wait- Hugo is Thomas Friedman?
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26284

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I will never understand why West Virginia is some monumental triumph for Bernie.  I mean, it’s great he had success there but that state is solid red AF and Bernie would never carry WV in a general election.  Congratulations though on winning over some racists. 

West VA is NOT, NOT solid red. It heavily votes Republican in national elections but is not heavily Republican in party identification.  West Virginia is like lots of places where any appeal or policy aimed at voters there gets drowned out by a bunch of irrelevant urban bi-coastal ideological bullshit and outright classism.

And it’s a shame, because Democrats are blowing off the economic hardship of underemployed miners and poor Appalachians and family farmers in Indiana while dismissing their fears and shitting on their lifestyle and coopting the GOP economic coalition.

 

But here’s the thing- if we don’t care about them, but we do care about high income tech bros in like me in places like Austin and Silicon Valley, there’s really no reason for a Democratic Party to exist.

 

 

 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26284

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Posted
BA002B0A-4C80-4CBC-8C53-F400896FE0F9_zpsqvl8rtkq.png   West Virginia is about as Trump country as it gets.

 

 

Absolutely Trump, yeah. Because he speaks to their suffering. It’s bullshit, but at least he’s acknowledging them. But they vote Republican by default, not identity. It’s the powder keg of the United Mine Workers for crying out loud. It was a hotbed of socialist agitation in living memory and You still have kids born there named after Joe Hill.  

Democrats ignore West Virginia and feel good about it for the same reasons Hillary Clinton lost to Trump and Democrats lost Louisiana: many ideologically progressive Democrats don’t actually care about struggling people in shithole places and are happy to lose elections if it means they can maintain their caste superiority.

 

 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26284

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I, for one, hopes the nominee spends time and money in deep red states that used to vote Dem like the south and Appalachia instead of Arizona, NC, the upper Midwest and Georgia. 

You've heard of airplanes, right? Also, West Va is not part of the "south" either by history or geography and seceded from Virginia* to stay in the union. Also part of NC is in Appalachia, just FYI. So is part of Georgia. So is half of Ohio and almost all of Pennsylvania. 

But not Arizona, though. So you were 1/5 right.  Any other places not where poor working people aren't relevant to Democrats?

 

* Virginia is a formerly deep red state  that is now a crucial Democratic state again, and is in the Appalachian south and used to vote Democrat.

 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17723

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4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You've heard of airplanes, right? Also, West Va is not part of the "south" either by history or geography and seceded from Virginia* to stay in the union. Also part of NC is in Appalachia, just FYI. So is part of Georgia. So is half of Ohio and almost all of Pennsylvania. 

But not Arizona, though. So you were 1/5 right.  Any other places not where poor working people aren't relevant to Democrats?

 

* Virginia is a formerly deep red state  that is now a crucial Democratic state again, and is in the Appalachian south and used to vote Democrat.

 

Holy shit. This guy knows where Appalachia is located. Fucking genius level stuff. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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18 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Bernie asking his bros to go negative with a campaign script 

Nina Turner is as bad as Lis Smith 

You see, what America needs right now is to elect an insurgent old white guy with a heart problem that surrounds himself with shady people and has a cult base of toxic online trolls.  Everything will surely improve wIth this kind of leadership. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You see, what America needs right now is to elect an insurgent old white guy with a heart problem that surrounds himself with shady people and has a cult base of toxic online trolls.  Everything will surely improve wIth this kind of leadership. 

See how mean and negative and personal Liz people are when Bernie people simply point out that Liz's base is primarily white liberals with money?

So toxic.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Why is Warren still campaigning?  She's toast.  

Reports of her death are overstated. She's a solid #3, and if Biden collapses (as he should, because his record is fucking awful) then she's a solid #2, and that ain't nothin' in a long campaign season. Her base is solid, she's well-liked, and she's got the money to go the distance.

If she wins the nomination, we go to war for Liz.

Biden is fucking awful. 

It's kind of telling that Js1 and Hugo are furious at Nina Turner, a black woman, this morning for writing an op-ed criticizing Joe Biden's racist policy history. Weird.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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It's kind of bullshit that the rest of the candidates are too cowardly to hit Joe on Iraq.

This is a major problem with the Democrats. They're like a family that hides conflict and bottles up emotions so nothing ever gets worked out until one drunken night where the police get called.

Joe Biden is out there actively lying about his support for the war and his attacks on the anti-war people in his party/caucus. Bernie is the only one saying ANYTHING.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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The Bernie volunteer Slack cannot find this volunteer doc about saying Warren's base won't win against Trump. Not saying it's fake, because anyone can type up this kind of thing and just distribute it, but it's not in my latest canvassing docs and it's not the latest canvassing docs for the Iowa and NH people.

Seems like a weird one to fake because it's not actually bad. If you were trying to fake it to make Bernie look bad you'd put, "and she lied about being Indian" or something, really make Bernie look like an asshole.

The mantra at all times for phone-banking and canvassing is "do not be negative about other candidates", so maybe just some rogue organizer who thought this wasn't actually negative about the candidate (it's not, really) and didn't clear it with higher-ups?

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The Bernie volunteer Slack cannot find this volunteer doc about saying Warren's base won't win against Trump. Not saying it's fake, because anyone can type up this kind of thing and just distribute it, but it's not in my latest canvassing docs and it's not the latest canvassing docs for the Iowa and NH people.

Seems like a weird one to fake because it's not actually bad. If you were trying to fake it to make Bernie look bad you'd put, "and she lied about being Indian" or something, really make Bernie look like an asshole.

The mantra at all times for phone-banking and canvassing is "do not be negative about other candidates", so maybe just some rogue organizer who thought this wasn't actually negative about the candidate (it's not, really) and didn't clear it with higher-ups?

Yeah, I'm skeptical too, anything is possible. I'm sure there are shitty people that are being negative in calls that aren't supposed to, but I would be outright shocked if the campaign told phone-bankers and door-to-door volunteers to smear Warren and Biden. Bernie is going to need Liz's support and it would probably only hurt his campaign Iater if they started organizing against her.

Edited by GSU&UT
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted (edited)

I mean, it is an argument... but it’s been proven a politically weak and ineffective argument.  It’s not like Obama didn’t know Biden voted for the Iraq war when he chose him as his VP.   Are you saying Obama possessed poor judgement by selecting Biden?  You can see the political pitfalls going down this road of attack which can come off petty to your average low info voter.  It isn’t petty tho.

And for the record, Warren recently said it was a mistake for anyone to vote for the Iraq War. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I mean, it is an argument... but it’s been proven a politically weak and ineffective argument.

Which one is weak, the Iraq war vote argument?

I don't know what you're basing your argument that it's "politically weak and ineffective" on, but it's not the reality of primary or general elections.

If it wasn't a meaningful attack, Joe wouldn't be actively lying about it now. A Democrat voting for the Iraq war showed weakness and poor judgment. 

It is an attack that Trump will use to tremendous effect against Biden in the general.

Quote

 It’s not like Obama didn’t know Biden voted for the Iraq war when he chose him as his VP.   Are you saying Obama possessed poor judgement by selecting Biden?

Obama was the top of the ticket and had minorities and progressives on lock. Joe was chosen to appeal to white people who were nervous about a black guy named "Hussein".

You're fucking terrible at this.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because the Iraq War vote card worked so well on Hillary in the last Democratic Primary.

Bernie did amazingly well for a guy who wasn't even trying to win until December of 2015 and was actively fought against by the entire Democratic establishment.

She got taken into the 9th inning by a guy whose presidential candidacy announcement was this:

height.576.no_border.width.1024.jpg

Lost in 2008 and barely beat a protest candidate in 2016. And then humiliatingly lost a general election to a game show host clown who hit her over the head with her Iraq war vote.

Quote

 Like I said, it’s a legit criticism but the payoff nominal.  Trump was pro-Iraq war too and he lies about everything so any attack coming from his direction is laughable.

Donald Trump is the president. He won.

And if he says, "Biden voted for the Iraq War" he's not even lying.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted
7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:
12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Bernie did amazingly well for a guy who wasn't even trying to win until December of 2015 and was actively fought against by the entire Democratic establishment

Yep, losing to Hillary Clinton was a tremendous accomplishment. Not even Trump could do that. 

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