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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

Posted
Posted

She described it as a private dinner that should stay private.

The idea that these two had stenographers with them is laughable.



After, of course, telling people about it so they could leak it later in a way that presented her as a wilting flower victim.

The only way this sticks to Bernie is if he fumbles it at tomorrow's debate.

The reality is that most/all of us have doubts about the ability of a woman to win. Most/all of us believe it's harder for them and that, all other things being equal, a woman is less likely than a man.

The categorical statement that it's actually impossible for a woman to win? No, that's silly. No one actually believes Bernie believes that. It's just not credible.

tantric is onto something here regarding identity politics. It's a dangerous weapon when handled by dishonest or clumsy people.
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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1799

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Believe women until there are multiple witnesses and a first-hand recount of it.

For her to sit on it this long until less than a month out from Iowa? If Bernie did this shit you'd be so pissed he was punching the second most left candidate.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

For her to sit on it this long until less than a month out from Iowa? If Bernie did this shit you'd be so pissed he was punching the second most left candidate.

Y’all keep making assumptions without evidence and it keeps making y’all look silly.  She was forced to comment on it and it’s ridiculous to assume she wanted it to go down like this. It doesn’t help her at all. 

Blaming the woman is kinda proving the point a little too on the nose tho.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

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I do not think her confidantes leaked this without her approval. Given her over-the-top reaction to the Slack doc non-story ("Bernie is sending his volunteers to trash me"), she has either been coaching herself up for this desperation play or actually genuinely was hurt that someone in Bernie's campaign said that her voting base was highly-educated and monied and is lashing out in hurt feelings.

Lying? I wouldn't go that far, primarily because I still cling to the perhaps-dead hope that grandma and grandpa can make up and go forward together.

It is my contention that Liz is leaving out the context necessary to understand what was actually being discussed. I think that's fairly inarguable given that they had a 2-hour dinner conversation and all she says about his side is "he disagreed".

Is Bernie really a secret misogynist who, in private, degrades women and dismisses their abilities and hopes? I know there are tens of thousands of Twitter personalities eager to promote this narrative, but is it credible? Do we really believe that Bernie said, "NO DAMES, AMERICA IS FOR THE BOYS!" to Liz in 12/2018 and she's spent the last YEAR talking about how they're good friends and holding fire? While multiple women are passed by him and they drop out?

Or do we believe Bernie said, "America is in a very sexist place and Trump will stoke huge amounts of sexism that will make it impossible for a woman to win" in a hyperbolic/metaphorical way? Like humans actually talk?

There's also the chance that Bernie was saying that she, specifically, couldn't win (maybe her taking Trump's bait and doing the DNA test was a red flag to him?). Which... that would hurt, but that's why you have frank, private conversations with people.

Maybe, when relating the conversation to others, she made it sound more categorical than it was to dull the edge of Bernie's honest assessment of her shot?

Who knows? We don't, because Bernie denies it with a credible take ("I was saying that Trump is going to use sexism") and Liz just says "he disagreed" with zero additional context.

So we're in a he-said/she-said, and unfortunately for Liz, Bernie's got way more credibility than her.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1799

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't know Hugo, she could have simply said "We had a private conversation where we had some disagreements blah blah" especially since her actual statement had the phrasing "Bernie and I agree on most things." It's fanning the flames that are going to hurt both candidates.

Edited by GSU&UT
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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15674

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

As someone who isn’t in love with either Bernie or Liz, this whole thing is making me pissed at both of them/their campaigns.

Because guess who benefits?831c4b292fd40123ffd8fdef482490bc.jpg

Look--I think you can go back through this thread and discern that I don't like Joe Biden.

But fuck . . . I mean, . . . fuck.  Who the fuck else are we going to nominate?  And really, at this point, why would we nominate anybody else?  Every poll shows him being the strongest candidate against Trump.  And isn't that the most important thing?

 

 

 

. . . I say that as someone who is still planning on voting for Amy Klobuchar.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

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Literally the only thing Bernie or his campaign did in either of these controversies is delete a document from Slack that said Liz's voting base is well-educated and well-off when basically every poll for the last year has said that Liz's voting base is well-educated and well-off.

For the last two days Bernie's campaign team is just screaming, "IGNORE THIS FIGHT THE REAL FIGHT!" over and over again.

All of this is 100% from Team Liz. Her campaign is being run like a flaming trainwreck right now.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Look--I think you can go back through this thread and discern that I don't like Joe Biden.

But fuck . . . I mean, . . . fuck.  Who the fuck else are we going to nominate?  And really, at this point, why would we nominate anybody else?  Every poll shows him being the strongest candidate against Trump.  And isn't that the most important thing?

 

 

 

. . . I say that as someone who is still planning on voting for Amy Klobuchar.  

Lmao. You prob just want to get dommed by Kloby. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Literally the only thing Bernie or his campaign did in either of these controversies is delete a document from Slack that said Liz's voting base is well-educated and well-off when basically every poll for the last year has said that Liz's voting base is well-educated and well-off.

For the last two days Bernie's campaign team is just screaming, "IGNORE THIS FIGHT THE REAL FIGHT!" over and over again.

All of this is 100% from Team Liz. Her campaign is being run like a flaming trainwreck right now.

Wow dude, you are pathetic.  I could go on a rant about how poorly the Bernie campaign has handled this but that wouldn’t be productive and the best thing to do is put it in the rear mirror but nah, let’s keep digging! 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

Posted
Posted

I'm naive, I know, but there's still a chance.

Bernie is given a chance tomorrow and says, "Women can win. Hillary won by 3 million. We need women in our democracy and I have said for years that women should run... -- If anything I said sounded different, then it was nothing but a misunderstanding."

Warren accepts that.

They move forward and fix America.

I will stick with that as my naive hope.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
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Ugh, Tapa is all fucked up when someone on ignore posts in a thread, this is in reply to GoLL.

 

 

I agree with you and that’s why I’m pissed.

 

We went from a field of candidates that I thought had multiple good options to three white septuagenarians and their bratty great grandson.

 

Like, literally my three least favorite candidates and Warren (who I think got overconfident these last few months and has cocked things up).

 

I fear SO badly for our future if Trump is re-elected - like, seriously worried about violence and losing the judiciary to Vanilla ISIS for a generation fear.

 

So at this point I’m pretty fucking pissed at the media and blue check and woke Twitter for running down and running off some really great candidates.

 

So, I’m pretty much ready to give all of the above the middle finger and lay back and think of Delaware while Uncle Joe sniffs my hair all the way to the nomination.

 

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

Liz’s campaign is over. The only outcome of this this bullshit is to help Biden. 

You're a ray of sunshine now, aren't you? I don't know if she has the staying power all the way to the primary given that some demographic groups have not joined her campaign nor seem enthusiastic, but at this time, the top four candidates are still fairly close. Debate this week, and see how things go from there.

The GOP/Trump campaign would love for this infighting to continue I'm sure. If the four candidates remain tight, then they have to keep spending some money, attention and time.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21613

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

And what's the problem there? Faiz is focusing on anonymous sources and leaving the door wide open for Liz to handle it gracefully.

She, well, chose not to.

What was poorly handled there?

Saying that that story is a lie and then Warren confirms the story an hour or two later? 

Faiz wasn't there. The response doesn't have to be a binary "the story is true/false" statement. Yet they chose to go there. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

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Posted
The response doesn't have to be a binary "the story is true/false" statement. Yet they chose to go there.


You don't actually think, "Hey, who knows? Maybe, maybe not!" is a better response.

Denial is the right call. Doing it with zero aggression towards Warren is even better.

Deny, deny, deny.
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13483

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No, I don't. Is that the only other response a campaign manager can think of? 



This was Bernie's response this morning:

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."

Faiz coming out later in the day and waffling would be completely idiotic and you know that.

Deny, deny, deny.

Faiz is unified with his candidate in attacking the anonymous sources and offering zero hits on the candidate herself.

Very disciplined comms. This team has gotten experienced.

Sirota today has been locked on Biden like a pitbull and 6 months ago God only knows what whiny passive aggressive Tweeting he'd be doing.

Sirota was actually off Twitter for two months and I think he was given a talking to.

Bri is the only one even vaguely being aggressive towards Warren's campaign and she's a kitten.

Nina is all Biden like Sirota.

They're focused on volunteer recruitment and shitting on Joe Biden. Look at their feeds.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Lol. 

Whose campaign do you think leaked this story, Hugo? 

I have no idea and neither do you. However, leaking this helps the front runners not named Warren and Bernie.  

You think the Warren campaign thought this would be a good idea?  To start some shit with the Bernie campaign?  It would be a first for her to pull something like this.  

Of course everyone not in Bernie and Warren’s camps wants to make both campaigns look as bad as possible. 

The whole thing stinks. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21613

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Posted
Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I have no idea and neither do you. However, leaking this helps the front runners not named Warren and Bernie.  

You think the Warren campaign thought this would be a good idea?  To start some shit with the Bernie campaign?  It would be a first for her to pull something like this.  

Of course everyone not in Bernie and Warren’s camps want to make both campaigns look as bad as possible. 

The whole thing stinks. 

Warren has been dipping in the polls. She needs a good Iowa showing .

The Warren campaign thought it would be a good idea to release a video about her DNA proving she had Native American heritage. It blew up in her face and the campaign has basically tried to scrub the video from the internet. This wouldn't be the first time she made a miscalculation.

The only people involved in this story are tied to Warren and Bernie. Therefore, Warren's camp leaked it. 

Humor me, Hugo. Give me an alternative theory. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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It’s always the woman’s fault.  Immediately.  What’s remarkable is the Berners think Bernie would never say something like that when people of all walks say that exact same shit on here and on television all the time.  It wasn’t controversial but Bernie would never utter such statement because he’s Jesus. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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softlynow

softlynow 1893

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

#RefundWarren now trending 

All the Bernie/progressive thought leaders on Twitter are fucking furious at Liz. We are in a moment. 

 

Sure. And in a couple days we’ll be in another moment listening to how Biden is poor tipper, or Pete’s place settings aren’t gay enough.

I missed the old days when what really mattered were sex scandals, drug use, and rumors of secret interracial love-children. This shit is boring and stupid. 

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