2020 Democratic Nominee

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

Hmmm... who else does that?  

Hint: he also attacks the media and plays the victim card. 

Yes, Dropout is being 100% serious.

[tantric superman 4667]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Is that rhetorical? I refuse to believe someone with the level of internet brain that you have doesn't know who Joe Rogan is.

I'm pretty wired for an old guy, and I know he's got a podcast, but I don't know any of his history, or politics, or whether he is smart, loud or both.

[Chuckie Finster 22599]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

I'm pretty wired for an old guy, and I know he's got a podcast, but I don't know any of his history, or politics, or whether he is smart, loud or both.

He's generally best described as libertarian.  Very much has the "bro who spends way too much time online" market cornered.  He also has a history of giving a platform to controversial guests (usually far right). 

He's a huge douche and I've never listened to his podcast, but I am in not exaggerating when I say this might be the most consequential endorsement to date. Rogan is damn near godlike to a huge, generally apolitical audience.  Some people WILL vote just because Rogan told them to.  As an aside, I also suspect his demographic was extra susceptible to fall for Trump's bullshit in 2016, so any redirection to the left is a welcome one.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[bonnieblue 542]

He was on NewsRadio  

[henrygandorf 29174]

i partied with rogan and doug stanhope in like 2004 or 2005.  rogan was pretty skinny if i recall correctly (and had hair), so this was before he beefed up/got jacked i guess.  he was a douchebag, but seemed like a decent guy.  stanhope was a lot more fun and i've seen him a few times since.

i honestly hadn't heard rogan's name in over a decade, until someone recommended one of his podcasts to me (non-political) a couple years ago.  i thought it was really good and thought he was a solid interviewer.  obviously his personality seemed to stay consistent.

that said, i don't care if he's hitler incarnate, as long as he gets people to vote blue.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Nah, Rogan should not be celebrated.

I’ve listened to the bros scream for four years now that the rest of us are “neoliberals” and not progressive enough. And now they want us to be okay with this guy because he can bring in dumb white men? Nah - we’ve already heard that they think that’s terrible when Biden or Warren or someone else tries to appeal to center right voters.

Y’all been pushing purity tests. Well, ya got it.

[bad_teammate 13132]

The inability to distinguish between policy "purity tests" and personal "purity tests" is fun.

Appealing to the center/right voters by pushing policy that will hurt people and/or the planet: Bad.

Appealing to the center/right by making zero policy compromises but appealing to their humanity: Good.

This isn't hard.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by bad_teammate

[GSU&UT 1798]

Are we also just ignoring that basically every candidate, according to Rogan, wanted to get on his show to gain more support?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Biden's team doesn't seem fun,

 

[RDCanecutter 26250]

13 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Biden's team doesn't seem fun,

 

If Kay Glad follows this message by jumping behind the wheel of her car and personally leading the convoy out into the blizzard, then that's leadership. Maybe General George Custer leadership, but still.

If she's just spewing this out from her phone inside Heated Central Command, then she's a worthless dork.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Immortan Kay

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

So, if I'm reading correctly, the Bernie-Bros are trying to walk the line by making this about policy?

"Transphobic bigot? It's okay, we're a big tent, welcome to the cause, we'll work it out."

"You don't support our specific definition of Medicare for All single-payer healthcare?! Get out, neoliberal shill!"

Nah, the shit Rogan believes about trans people, gay people, women, and black people is disgusting and to try and hand wave it away because it’s not “an actual policy position” and will help win the votes of dumb internet white dudes is frankly insulting.

[GSU&UT 1798]

I mean I have actual trans friends who are okay with this, they aren't maybe happy but they understand it's an election. I do eagerly await for you to blame the bros again for helping re-elect Trump if Bernie gets the nomination. For as much as you want to talk about Rogan being a bigot, it'd help your case if you'd drop the Bernie-Bros insult.

Edited January 24, 2020 by GSU&UT

[bad_teammate 13132]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

So, if I'm reading correctly, the Bernie-Bros are trying to walk the line by making this about policy?

It's not about walking a line it's about having an actual vision of a political future.

Policy > Identity Politics

Candidate A: Doesn't really talk a lot about trans issues (either well or at all) and is gruff and not fun or cute. Wants to guarantee medical care to every transgender person. Wants to give them a free education. Wants to guarantee them a living wage job. Wants to forgive their medical and student debt.

Candidate B: Has wonderful focus-group-tested lines about trans issues and is good at delivering the speech. Doesn't want to guarantee medical care or a living wage job. Doesn't want to give them a free education. Doesn't want to forgive their medical and student debt.

GIVE ME CANDIDATE A

Sure, representation matters, but bread on the table matters a lot more.

And you know who we're not hearing from on this? TRANS PEOPLE

We've got a couple of trans brothers and sisters on this forum and I'd love to hear them. I'd love to listen.

I follow some on Twitter and there is no a uniform opinion on this by any means. It might be a bias in the ones I follow, but it's definitely more weighted on the "I don't care, just give me the healthcare I need to save my life" side. Some of the people screaming loudest about how horrible this is for trans people are as cis as the day is long.

Will Joe Rogan convince some politically-unengaged bros to pull the lever for M4A? That's a win.

Will Joe Rogan start tracking more progressive as his eyes are opened? That's a win.

If a trans person is hurt by this, I want to hear them. Their experiences are important and valid. But cisgendered people using trans people in absentia like this? Tired of it. It's like the suburban white women posting sassy black women GIFs. No, you don't get to be a stand-in for them and substitute your bullshit grievances for theirs.

Spill the tea, trans and NB friends.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Oh, you’re not hearing from trans people about this?

Here’s one with many replies from other trans people saying the same things.

Purity tests for thee not me.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Clymer hates Bernie and always has. Oh look I found trans people who are saying differently, huh

 

 

All three of those are people who I've followed well before this. Like B_T said, I'd rather hear from the few trans people we have on this board.

[henrygandorf 29174]

6 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

honest question for the bros - how are we viewing this 31%? 

i'm assuming bros don't want to vote for biden.  if this poll is to be trusted (and i think that's a stretch), then are we to believe that in the case of a biden nomination, 53% of the bros would vote for him, and 47% wouldn't?  are we thinking this poll is artificially inflated and controversial because it's a lot easier to take a stand over the phone than it is to sit home on election day or god forbid pull the lever for trump?

all 2008 statistics aside, this number is alarming.  and before anyone accuses me of concern trolling, no, this is actual concern, if true.  this poll should scare the shit out of anyone who's seriously worried about a trump re-election.

if accurate, bernie fucking god damn well better win this.

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 bernie fucking god damn well better win this.

Welcome brother. 

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

honest question for the bros - how are we viewing this 31%? 

Quit focusing on that and focus on the rest of them, the... 69%. Nice Bernie. Nice. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

I mean I have actual trans friends who are okay with this, they aren't maybe happy but they understand it's an election. I do eagerly await for you to blame the bros again for helping re-elect Trump if Bernie gets the nomination. For as much as you want to talk about Rogan being a bigot, it'd help your case if you'd drop the Bernie-Bros insult.

separate question - is the term "bros" derogatory?  i'm being serious.  i just use it in place of "bernie supporters".  like the "k-hive" or whatever other groups call themselves.  i've never used it as an insult, but if it's seen that way, i'll stop.  i'm not big on insulting nicknames or purposely misspelling or capitalizing other teams' names.  that's some aggy shit.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Quit focusing on that and focus on the rest of them, the... 69%. Nice Bernie. Nice. 

it's actually 53%.

and in response to the post above that, i've never had issues with bernie, and never once would've ranked biden ahead of him on my preference sheets.

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

separate question - is the term "bros" derogatory?  i'm being serious.  i just use it in place of "bernie supporters".  like the "k-hive" or whatever other groups call themselves.  i've never used it as an insult, but if it's seen that way, i'll stop.  i'm not big on insulting nicknames or purposely misspelling or capitalizing other teams' names.  that's some aggy shit.

A lot of cis and trans women of all races have been more vocal about it being offensive this year. Those three people I follow would probably be more offended about being called Bernie-Bros as opposed to the Sanders' campaign highlighting Rogan's support.

[bad_teammate 13132]

21 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Purity tests for thee not me.

I

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

honest question for the bros - how are we viewing this 31%? 

 

We're running hot right now.

Also, a whole lot of independents and young voters.

 

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

yeah, was hoping it was mostly bawdy talk.

[bad_teammate 13132]

This is good. I like this.

 

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Bernie should ask Liz to be his VP. 

“I ain’t never said a broad can’t be no Vice President!” 

[bad_teammate 13132]

More from the poll henry quoted. Bernie is popular among independents and non-voters.

If we can consolidate the anti-Trumpers with those who aren't terribly engaged but like populist economics, we will not only easily win the presidency, we will win the majorities needed in Congress to actually do all this stuff.

[henrygandorf 29174]

i'm not sure i trust someone with a "neutral" opinion of donald trump.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Can’t wait to see them have to walk this back like the Cenk mess.

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

22 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm not sure i trust someone with a "neutral" opinion of donald trump.

Who cares whether or not you can trust them? Those votes spend the same.

This is only a problem if Bernie comes out with some compromised positions to appeal to 24 Hour Fitness trainers and the admin of the Conor McGregor Fans Facebook page. But he's not going to compromise shit... which is why they like him.

11 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Can’t wait to see them have to walk this back like the Cenk mess.

Well it doesn't look like they're walking it back, and your post is a great example of why they shouldn't. You don't actually care about anything that's happening here, you just want people you dislike to get owned.

The amount of good faith criticism regarding this is an ant. The amount of bad faith criticism is a mountain.

It's a shame Cenk withdrew his endorsement, because the Sanders campaign should've stuck with that one, too.

Never give bad faith actors a fucking inch.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Rogan: "Here's how the liberals do character assassination with soundbytes and dramatic overstatements and that's why me and millions of others don't like them."

*liberals do exactly that*

Liberals: "WHY WON'T THESE PEOPLE REALIZE HOW MUCH BETTER WE ARE THAN THEM!?!?!"

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

 

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

29 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Can’t wait to see them have to walk this back like the Cenk mess.

I can't find their condemnation of Hillary Clinton for accepting money from Harvey Weinstein or her loving acceptance of Kissinger's endorsement.

But good to see the man of the people - Alphonso David - is back from Davos. 

 

And for those who forgot or were never taught - Kissinger thought it was a good human rights policy to carpet bomb civilians in Vietnam and Cambodia. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by washparkhorn
to add context.

[washparkhorn 9935]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I do think Bernie is probably in a pretty good position to win the malleable opinions of dumb people.  Warren and Buttigieg are the two who would get annihilated by those voters once they pay attention to them.  Bernie and Biden, on the other hand, can both be attractive to dumb voters in their own ways.

You know some of us think some Warren and Buttigieg supporters need a little continuing education. This isn't 1992 anymore. 

But I understand your point.

So, if electability is THE issue, we need a big tent, no?  

[washparkhorn 9935]

3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The question is basically whether the big tent should try to capture as many olds as possible (Biden) or as many young people and nonvoters as possible (Bernie).   In theory, Bernie has the biggest tent if you assume a bunch of disaffected people that haven’t voted in the past are going to rush to the polls.  It’s the Trump playbook, but with young people instead of angry olds.

I personally would count more on the olds than the groundswell of millennials actually voting. 

Why would an older American be drawn to a guy who has tried repeatedly to slash Social Security and Medicare? Once older Americans realize Trump has said he will cut SS and Medicare, I think they turn in droves to Sanders. But that is only an opinion. The "socialist" scare word is a mental rut for Boomers who grew up listening to a lot of propaganda about the evils of Communism and Socialism (not realizing Medicare and SS are socialism). 

I certainly hope younger voters realize the importance of this election and turn out to vote. They have been burned in the past and last election was not inspiring to them. Perhaps this is the year. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

26 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Why would an older American be drawn to a guy who has tried repeatedly to slash Social Security and Medicare? Once older Americans realize Trump has said he will cut SS and Medicare, I think they turn in droves to Sanders.

One would think what you say makes sense, but here we are.

Given that Fox seems to be the drug that a portion of older Americans are consuming, I don't think they will be aware of it if they are surrounded by like-minded people. Trump will lie about it like he always does and that will be that for them. They won't realize it's too late until the bills start climbing. The rest of us who are still paying into the system will be caught on both ends like we always are. (Can you tell I'm Gen X?) The Grunge generation will get to become the Grungy Elderly. Sucks to our ass-mar.

[washparkhorn 9935]

Good long read on the debt and deficit - as Dems will be blamed for wanting to blow up the budget. 

Quote

 

STATEMENT: House Budget Committee, “Reexamining the economic costs of debt”, Nov 20, 2019

Posted on January 21, 2020 by L. Randall Wray | 3 Comments

By L. Randall Wray

This blog is based on the testimony I provided to the US House of Representatives. My written statement will be published in the Congressional Record (a version is also at the Levy Economics Institute: http://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/statement-of-senior-scholar-l-randall-wray-to-the-house-budget-committee.) The full statement was co-authored with Yeva Nersisyan.

I will argue that the Federal Government’s deficit and debt are not so scary as we are led to believe.

Neither the deficit nor the debt ratio is on an unsustainable path. In some sense, chronic deficits and a rising debt ratio are normal.

They are not due to out of control spending—now or in the future. They serve a useful public purpose. In any case they are largely outside the control of Congress.

It is hard to imagine a scenario in which rising deficits and the debt ratio will create a financial crisis, lead to government insolvency, generate high inflation, or trigger an attack by bond vigilantes. 

 

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2020/01/statement-house-budget-committee-reexamining-the-economic-costs-of-debt-nov-20-2019.html

Any social spending is scrutinized. Spend on banks or defense contractors - not a whisper is heard.  

Goldman Sachs already understand the debt is not an impediment to further social spending - and as any good banker does - they are planning on it. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Can’t wait to see them have to walk this back like the Cenk mess.

 

I always appreciate when you fight the fight against hypocrisy and obviously you were right about it when you called it out upthread. But we should hate outrage culture regardless of who it's against when it's a non-issue being weaponized as a purely cynical political play.

Joe Rogan is a meathead radio host that is the gold standard for what dumb people think an intellectual sounds like. He's not a nazi or a KKK member. This outrage is manufactured BS. I hate Twitter.

Edited January 25, 2020 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13132]

Joe Rogan's listener base is more diverse than Warren's and Buttigieg's voting bases.

 

[F250 28682]

Are people really clutching their pearls over a Joe Rogan endorsement?

[troph 24562]

I can't find their condemnation of Hillary Clinton for accepting money from Harvey Weinstein or her loving acceptance of Kissinger's endorsement.
But good to see the man of the people - Alphonso David - is back from Davos. 
 
And for those who forgot or were never taught - Kissinger thought it was a good human rights policy to carpet bomb civilians in Vietnam and Cambodia. 

Fuck this bullshit. Alphonso Davis speaks out about Rogan and you dig up this crap. Give me a break. You’re being a duplicitous conservative jack wagon. Chad Griffin is a friend of mine and I’ve had private conversations with Davis. Both present and past leaders of HRC are passionate people who could make a lot more elsewhere but they care about the cause.

Davis was in Davos because you know how the gays were and the trannies will be accepted in society? Global corporations. The US government is walking shit back trying to impress Putin and the most powerful gay and trans rights organization is saying not so fast.

The people? Well the gay and trans people - that’s our version of we by the way - are just fine with him courting giant corporations because between them the federal government and the church the only group that will listen to the moral argument (spoken with the language of money) is the corporations.

Good on you Alphonso, keep it up!

[troph 24562]

 

I always appreciate when you fight the fight against hypocrisy and obviously you were right about it when you called it out upthread. But we should hate outrage culture regardless of who it's against when it's a non-issue being weaponized as a purely cynical political play.

Joe Rogan is a meathead radio host that is the gold standard for what dumb people think an intellectual sounds like. He's not a nazi or a KKK member. This outrage is manufactured BS. I hate Twitter.

His rhetoric might not impact you but it sure as shit is harmful to me. Real, visceral, watch your back side in certain places kind of rhetoric and no one even knows I’m “one of those kind.” Yeah fuck Rogan. You’re wrong about this.

[BradInATX 9208]

24 minutes ago, troph said:

His rhetoric might not impact you but it sure as shit is harmful to me. Real, visceral, watch your back side in certain places kind of rhetoric and no one even knows I’m “one of those kind.” Yeah fuck Rogan. You’re wrong about this.

In the interest of not commenting on things out of my depth here - can you provide some examples of what you mean? I don't listen to him. My knowledge of Joe Rogan is strictly via a couple of friends I have who insert his bullshit awkwardly into conversation as often as possible.

He always struck me as a guy who would post here about how both sides are bad but the socialists just made him vote for Trump but by god he's still a super smart intellectual!

Edited January 25, 2020 by BradInATX

[Fozzz 152]

No matter what Rogan has said on his podcast, he’s nowhere nearly as evil a human being as someone like Kissinger, whom is warmly regarded by every mainstream dem. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

so now we’re comparing joe rogan to henry kissinger?  sounds about right.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

Thanks for jumping in, troph.

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[HenryJames 65889]

8 hours ago, troph said:

Fuck this bullshit. Alphonso Davis speaks out about Rogan and you dig up this crap. Give me a break. You’re being a duplicitous conservative jack wagon. Chad Griffin is a friend of mine and I’ve had private conversations with Davis. Both present and past leaders of HRC are passionate people who could make a lot more elsewhere but they care about the cause.

Davis was in Davos because you know how the gays were and the trannies will be accepted in society? Global corporations. The US government is walking shit back trying to impress Putin and the most powerful gay and trans rights organization is saying not so fast.

The people? Well the gay and trans people - that’s our version of we by the way - are just fine with him courting giant corporations because between them the federal government and the church the only group that will listen to the moral argument (spoken with the language of money) is the corporations.

Good on you Alphonso, keep it up!

I think if you’d just listen to a Bernie Bro straightsplain it, you’d understand why you’re wrong.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Henry, I see that you're weaponizing someone else's identity to own the left, some questions for you to gauge how sincere your concern is for the LGBT community...

- Should trans people be guaranteed the medical care and procedures they need to fully transition and lead the lives they need to?

- Should the government provide safe housing to every single unhoused person regardless of ability to pay? (a situation that impacts the LGBT community far more than the straight community?)

- Should our international trade deals require LGBT protections?

- Should we lift the ban on trans military service?

- Should we investigate the murders of trans women as federal hate crimes?