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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29174

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We should talk about what the left should do about that instead of talking about his candidacy like it actually has a shot.

the royal we?  like we here, on surly?  i have dinner plans but can do a strategy call around 930 my time if that works.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

the royal we?  like we here, on surly?  i have dinner plans but can do a strategy call around 930 my time if that works.

Either/or. The fact that someone like Bernie Sanders has no chance of becoming the party nominee because the establishment won't let him is indicative of a larger problem with the neoliberal leadership of the Democratic Party. 

 

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Js1

Js1 85085

Posted
Posted

They are TERRIFIED. A fucking first term senator from Florida is running ads against Biden.....in Iowa 

Also this guy got away with a $600m Medicare fraud so spare me the indignation 

I fucking hate the GOP. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
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15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We should talk about what the left should do about that instead of talking about his candidacy like it actually has a shot.

 

For starters, if Bernie wants to be a Dem when running for Pres, he should be a Dem all the time. There are leftists with his views in the House who manage to be progressives within the party. AOC is one of them. Don't use a party apparatus only when it suits you. 

Otherwise, start a progressive party and peel off current progressive housemembers and senators who can use incumbency to actually create a foothold for the party unlike past startup parties.  Let the Dem party move to the center.  Since people are starting to realize that the GOP is really an ethnofascist party rather than a conservative party, the center right people need somewhere to go. Right now, they are moving to the Democratic Party and the tent really should not be that large. Sadly though, ethnofascists are a solid 30 to 40% voting bloc, so the progressives and centrists will have to caucus in some form for the foreseeable future to beat them back. 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15469

Posted
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10 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

For starters, if Bernie wants to be a Dem when running for Pres, he should be a Dem all the time. There are leftists with his views in the House who manage to be progressives within the party. AOC is one of them. Don't use a party apparatus only when it suits you. 

Otherwise, start a progressive party and peel off current progressive housemembers and senators who can use incumbency to actually create a foothold for the party unlike past startup parties.  Let the Dem party move to the center.  Since people are starting to realize that the GOP is really an ethnofascist party rather than a conservative party, the center right people need somewhere to go. Right now, they are moving to the Democratic Party and the tent really should not be that large. Sadly though, ethnofascists are a solid 30 to 40% voting bloc, so the progressives and centrists will have to caucus in some form for the foreseeable future to beat them back. 

I agree.  I don't think DD is completely wrong.  He's probably not wrong at all.  But the Party's problem with Bernie isn't his agenda.  It would get behind Warren or even AOC.

The problem with Bernie is that he's not just a bad teammate; he's not on the fucking team.  I don't know why it's shocking to people that the Democratic Party should want to nominate a fucking Democrat for president.

Look--I just became a Democrat four years ago.  The Party isn't going to nominate me for shit, either.  Nor should they--there are a bunch of people who have done a lot more for the Party than I have.  There are a lot of people who have been right on this shit a lot longer than I have.  They should get the nod over me.

Bernie's no different.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:
I agree.  I don't think DD is completely wrong.  He's probably not wrong at all.  But the Party's problem with Bernie isn't his agenda.  It would get behind Warren or even AOC.
The problem with Bernie is that he's not just a bad teammate; he's not on the fucking team.  I don't know why it's shocking to people that the Democratic Party should want to nominate a fucking Democrat for president.
Look--I just became a Democrat four years ago.  The Party isn't going to nominate me for shit, either.  Nor should they--there are a bunch of people who have done a lot more for the Party than I have.  There are a lot of people who have been right on this shit a lot longer than I have.  They should get the nod over me.
Bernie's no different.

 

Saying that the issue with Bernie is that he's not following the proper decorum and protocol within a corrupt, ineffective, bloated bureaucracy of an organization is sort of making his point for him. I hate this cliche so much but it fits, so.. it's a feature not a bug.

The DNC is an obese grotesque failure and should be burned to the ground.
 

Edited by BradInATX
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
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48 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


You mean ... a third of the workforce, or roughly ... 52mm people.

That seems pretty good.

401k isn't really the relevant stat either. 55% of workers participate in an employer based retirement plan which includes 401k, 403b, TSP, pension, etc. 

https://www.pensionrights.org/publications/statistic/how-many-american-workers-participate-workplace-retirement-plans

I'd prefer a much more progressive approach, but given our current political environment, I'd make retirement savings mandatory and force employers to withhold for it based on an income scale.  I'd also end benefits provider double dipping. They make tons of money on account and fund management. They should be required to provide plan access to employers for free.  I think that's something even Trump's GOP could be talked into agreeing with. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted

Re-reading that NYT article is hilarious because the people who think they're going to nail Bernie down (1) have no fucking clue what they're talking about and (2) aren't used to someone like Bernie who will not humor their stupidity and disingenuous bullshit.

Fucking owned.

Q. In the top of our story, we talk about the rally you attended in Managua and a wire report at the time said that there were anti-American chants from the crowd.

 

 

The United States at that time — I don’t know how much you know about this — was actively supporting the Contras to overthrow the government. So that there’s anti-American sentiment? I remember that, I remember that event very clearly.

You do recall hearing those chants? I think the wire report has them saying, “Here, there, everywhere, the Yankee will die.”

They were fighting against American —— Huh huh —— yes, what is your point?

I wanted to ——

Are you shocked to learn that there was anti-American sentiment?

My point was I wanted to know if you had heard that.

I don’t remember, no. Of course there was anti-American sentiment there. This was a war being funded by the United States against the people of Nicaragua. People were being killed in that war.

Do you think if you had heard that directly, you would have stayed at the rally?

I think Sydney, with all due respect, you don’t understand a word that I’m saying.

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12389

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Yep.

 

The Bernie bros aren't going to want to hear this and stick their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la la la la" and AOC would say I don't give a damn but this article is spot on.

As the general election ramps up and it becomes a binary choice between Trump and Bernie, the moderates and the swing voters in the Midwest will start looking closer and closer at the candidates, especially Bernie if he's the nominee.

And a platform of taking away your health insurance even if you like it and guaranteeing to raise taxes on the middle class from a 79 year old socialist isn't going to win in a center-right country.  The attack ads from Parscale & Co. will almost write themselves.

I think Bernie's a genuinely good dude (see tweet below), but just not a viable general election candidate.

 

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Tom

Tom 2959

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

And a platform of taking away your health insurance even if you like it

 

People think this way because they've been conned into thinking this way. 

Nobody likes their health insurance.  Nobody likes how they will fight payment when you use their insurance and nobody likes feeling stuck in a job they may dislike over fear of losing their insurance.  Nobody has ever turned down a better job offer from another company because that company uses United Health, and damn it, they're just loyal to Cigna.

Nobody actually likes their health insurance company.  Nobody.  Progressives need to keep hammering this point so we can move past this conversation.

Edited by Tom
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Tom said:

People think this way because they've been conned into thinking this way. 

Nobody likes their health insurance.  Nobody likes how they will fight payment when you use their insurance and nobody likes feeling stuck in a job they may dislike over fear of losing their insurance.  Nobody has ever turned down a better job offer from another company because that company uses United Health, and damn it, they're just loyal to Cigna.

Nobody actually likes their health insurance company.  Nobody.  Progressives need to keep hammering this point so we can move past this conversation.

At some point in the not too distant future, a major corporation is going to get out of the health insurance game completely. It won't be a part of any compensation package. I just wonder which one it will be.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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28 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

At some point in the not too distant future, a major corporation is going to get out of the health insurance game completely. It won't be a part of any compensation package. I just wonder which one it will be.

You are on some next-level garbage take juice these days and I would like to know what your formula is.

- Why do companies offer health insurance packages?

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Tom

Tom 2959

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54 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let’s say Bernie does win, do you think his die hard supporters will be more focused on advancing policy agenda or defending and protecting Bernie from the onslaught of attacks?

 

I would hope they along with all Democrats would be focused on both.  No matter who wins the nomination, they will be faced with an onslaught of attacks.

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