2020 Democratic Nominee

[washparkhorn 9974]

14 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

In order of who I would prefer on the issues, putting aside electability, I would have the six main candidates as follows:

1. Klobuchar

2. Biden

3. Bloomberg

4. Buttigieg 

5. Warren

6. Sanders

I would be fine enough with the first 4.  I think Warren and Sanders would be disastrous, with Sanders being extra disastrous.

Adding in electability, though, I think Bloomberg is the only one of the four I like with a chance to win.  So, I guess him. 

Thanks. That helps me to understand your stances. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26906]

The idea that Pete's plan would "protect" private insurance plans is laughable. It would dramatically alter the private insurance market, and unless M4AWWI has legislation involved that literally requires private insurers to maintain existing plans at existing rates frozen in time, there is no protection for those plans.
John Legend doesn't really understand unions and Pete's sales job is a lie.
 

“Dramatically alter the private insurance market” is the argument successfully deployed by the insurance industry against the public option in 2010, so it’s funny to see you invoke it.

[Bozo_Casanova 26906]

M4A takes away their plan. M4AWWI also takes away their plan.

One side is honest. One side is lying.

Maybe you’re more of an ironic_teammate

[bad_teammate 13566]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

“Dramatically alter the private insurance market” is the argument successfully deployed by the insurance industry against the public option in 2010, so it’s funny to see you invoke it.

It's true. The public option will dramatically alter the private insurance market, will it not?

I think it would be a big net positive, but are we going to still go with "if you like your plan, you can keep it"?

[tantric superman 4668]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This is also largely true for M4A, yes?

M4A by design does away with private insurance, which presumably was the foundation of the union plan.  So I would say, again, all things being equal, no, it's not true for M4A.

I think the issue is one that Pete and some of us are missing, at least in terms of the simple union question.  I haven't been involved in enough union negotiations to know whether a union would rather have health care "pre-negotiated" by the government or one that the union wants to negotiate.  If you consider the union a business, which it is, I would think most of them would indeed actually want the ability to negotiate better benefits for the workers than what is otherwise available.  They have to justify their union dues.

Flip side, if there remains in a world of M4A some kinds of supplemental benefits, the union could negotiate for those, I suppose. 

[Brothahorn 10100]

Bernie is in trouble.

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26906]

It's true. The public option will dramatically alter the private insurance market, will it not?

I think it would be a big net positive, but are we going to still go with "if you like your plan, you can keep it"?

I believe a guaranteed issue public option would be a huge net positive precisely because of what it would do to the private market, and that legislation requiring a freeze would likely prevent private carriers from adapting as much as they could otherwise.

 

But again- I don’t think those who can afford it should be using insurance for routine care or common medication at all. Otherwise they’re just prepaying, which tacks on a bunch of overhead and administrative costs, probably in the range of 12-20%. A lot of those union and big employer plans plus the shit out of routine care and other predictable expenses, and that’s a problem that distorts the market.

 

[Gil Bang 26250]

 

[mchookem 16784]

how does that help? they need to VOTE for the Democrat in November. 

[bad_teammate 13566]

The problem with thinking of utilization in terms of "those who can afford it" is that very few people think of themselves this way.

I recently helped a woman through forming an estate (I told her not to because it would make her family kill each other, but hey).

She was concerned about limited cashflow because she has $10+M in financial assets but only $1.7M is liquid right now.

She owns her house. She owns her car. She has no real financial obligations. She sold the business years ago when the husband died.

Not fake concerned. Real, honest worry.

We are not rational creatures.

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26906]

Oh I completely agree. But in the absence of forcing rational choices by forbidding insurance for truly routine care and common medications for exempt employees, we should at the very least encourage rational choices by making them attractive using tax incentives to encourage things like old-style catastrophic plans and true HDHPs.

Sorry for the thread derail.

[bad_teammate 13566]

You told someone with 10+Million in assets NOT to do estate planning?

Estate planning where you will things out cleanly is good. Making a complex set of trusts you don't understand that will lead to infighting is bad.

She is choosing the bad option.

[washparkhorn 9974]

12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Oh I completely agree. But in the absence of forcing rational choices by forbidding insurance for truly routine care and common medications for exempt employees, we should at the very least encourage rational choices by making them attractive using tax incentives to encourage things like old-style catastrophic plans and true HDHPs.

Sorry for the thread derail.

Not a derail at all. Thank you. 

[Js1 87286]

This fight AGAIN?

No

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't think we should take John Legend seriously at all, which is why it's funny that he has a better understanding of it than Pete Buttigieg.

John Legend has been doing some serious work on criminal justice reform and education reform and has been volunteering for lots of local races in Los Angeles.

An advocate for racial justice and criminal justice reform, Legend is the founder of the Show Me Campaign, which seeks to give every child access to education, and #FREEAMERICA, a program designed to change national conversations and policies about our country’s misguided criminal justice system.

If we’re expected to chose someone to take seriously - you or John Legend - I’m gonna go with Mr. Chrissy Teigen all day, every day.

[Tom 2960]

Loving the Never-Trump conservatives who think the Democrats are free to be molded into their own after you lost your party completely to Trump. The alliance was nice while it lasted.

Quit trying to remake the Democrats into the new 1982-2007 Republican Party.  Nobody wants your shitty ideas and your shitty employer based healthcare plans.  

 

[TexEx15 17959]

[GSU&UT 1799]

Yeahhhhh, about Nevada. Not going to be a big fuck up at all if not outright dirty.

 

https://prospect.org/politics/nevada-caucus-confusing-app-vote-counting-process/

Quote

But just days before early voting begins, the state party shifted again. The Nevada Dems now say that they will use scannable paper ballots at early-voting sites. The ballots will be linked to a voter ID number through a Google Forms check-in, so the ballots can be sent to the appropriate precincts on caucus night. The tool would still be used to integrate early votes with the in-person caucus process. But there is now no indication on the procedure for how the early voting will be counted in the caucus results, and even less indication that volunteers are being trained to handle both the early votes and the in-person caucus tool.

 

[henrygandorf 29229]

go home caucus format, you’re drunk. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Yeah, add a “No More Fucking Caucuses” rule to The BamaChick Plan to reform the primary season.

[Cheeseweasel 26443]

9 hours ago, Tom said:

your shitty employer based healthcare plans.

I don't think anyone on the planet wants those. Employers especially. 

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

Warren surrogate targeting Bernie now. Was only a matter of time. 

 

[bad_teammate 13566]

She started off alarmingly poorly after the 23&Me video.

She rose high on "I'm with Bernie on this".

She started to collapse when she started waffling on M4A.

She fell off a cliff with accusing Bernie of being a sexist and then pulling the debate dramatics.

Stellar political instincts as usual, Liz, top shelf.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited February 13, 2020 by bad_teammate

[Cheeseweasel 26443]

That didn't last long...

[Js1 87286]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

She started off alarmingly poorly after the 23&Me video.

She rose high on "I'm with Bernie on this".

She started to collapse when she started waffling on M4A.

She fell off a cliff with accusing Bernie of being a sexist and then pulling the debate dramatics.

Stellar political instincts as usual, Liz, top shelf.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quite stunning, really.  And by stunning, I mean baffling how bad she is at this. 

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

Her messaging has been all over the place. 

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

Pretty incredible to see the media/journalism world giving Klobuchar a free pass right now. A lot of skeletons in her closet. 

She complained about Pete getting so much attention, but the reality is it really helped her in the end. She got a Klobusurge between Iowa and NH without anyone really vetting/challenging her due to never being a polling threat.  I'm guessing that changes in the next debate. 

 

 

[GSU&UT 1799]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Her messaging has been all over the place. 

The rumors (which could very well be BS) are that she is so low on funds that she can't properly pay all her staff, which was enormous at one point. If she wants to stay in the race, she's going to try to attack any of the other candidates to hopefully gain some sliver of support but it's wayyyyy to late for that imo.

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

She started off alarmingly poorly after the 23&Me video.

She rose high on "I'm with Bernie on this".

She started to collapse when she started waffling on M4A.

She fell off a cliff with accusing Bernie of being a sexist and then pulling the debate dramatics.

Stellar political instincts as usual, Liz, top shelf.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Obviously this is a crazy primary and she might surge back into serious contention, but I agree that the M4A rollout is what started the collapse. Maybe even pinpointed to when she was dodging the middle class tax question and Buttigieg was calling her "evasive". 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26443]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Obviously this is a crazy primary and she might surge back into serious contention, but I agree that the M4A rollout is what started the collapse. Maybe even pinpointed to when she was dodging the middle class tax question and Buttigieg was calling her "evasive". 

I thought that video of her with the guy asking about repaying student loans was damaging. She seems so aloof to me and the "I'm just an average american mom" thing seems fake as hell.

[Js1 87286]

16 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Pretty incredible to see the media/journalism world giving Klobuchar a free pass right now. A lot of skeletons in her closet. 

She complained about Pete getting so much attention, but the reality is it really helped her in the end. She got a Klobusurge between Iowa and NH without anyone really vetting/challenging her due to never being a polling threat.  I'm guessing that changes in the next debate. 

 

 

Amy Klobuchar, god help her, its the literal definition of female white privilege right now.

She is/has been getting a PASS for a closet full of (worse) skeletons in the Henepin DA's office than Kamala Harris got running the SF DA's office and CA AG's office.  Harris got smeared with bullshit and Klobuchar just does her mom dance and gets a pass.  

[Skipper 6412]

12 hours ago, Tom said:

Loving the Never-Trump conservatives who think the Democrats are free to be molded into their own after you lost your party completely to Trump. The alliance was nice while it lasted.

Quit trying to remake the Democrats into the new 1982-2007 Republican Party.  Nobody wants your shitty ideas and your shitty employer based healthcare plans.  

 

I love how the far left on this board act like Bernie actually represents the Democratic Party considering his platform does not remotely resemble the democratic party historically.  Most of my immediate family are democrats and have voted democrat their entire lives.  They all think Bernie is batshit crazy.   

[BradInATX 9208]

31 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Obviously this is a crazy primary and she might surge back into serious contention, but I agree that the M4A rollout is what started the collapse. Maybe even pinpointed to when she was dodging the middle class tax question and Buttigieg was calling her "evasive". 

 

 

I think that moment of bouncing all around in M4A made it seem like she was campaigning via focus group. And I think, probably unfairly, candidates in the progressive lane get a lot more grief for doing that than someone like Pete who is a walking focus group (don't @ me I like Pete). 

And like you said in another post her messaging is just all over the place. She started off strong but sort of drifted herself into an image of "I'll say anything to get votes even if it means saying four different things", not dissimilar from Hillary. The moderates in the race have mostly always been moderate. Bernie is a pure as snow progressive. Warren tried to get the best of both and ended up looking kind of like an empty vessel, kinda like Beto.

Edited February 13, 2020 by BradInATX

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Amy Klobuchar, god help her, its the literal definition of female white privilege right now.

She is/has been getting a PASS for a closet full of (worse) skeletons in the Henepin DA's office than Kamala Harris got running the SF DA's office and CA AG's office.  Harris got smeared with bullshit and Klobuchar just does her mom dance and gets a pass.  

Agreed. Plus it's been widely know for years in D.C. that she is abusive to her staff. And she literally has no agenda for Black people. 

Admittedly, this is pissing me off even more because it's negatively affecting Pete. He needs her out of this race to have any chance. 

[Zonahorn 8079]

The only reason Amy is surging is because of Never-Trumpers

[Skipper 6412]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Agreed. Plus it's been widely know for years in D.C. that she is abusive to her staff. 

I've seen this a few times but I always just roll my eyes.  I think it's pretty damn impossible for any woman to achieve what she has without being somewhat of a bitch.  And would these rumors even exist if she was a man or would that just be pretty much expected of someone with power and high expectations for those that work for him?  I don't come across many people in power positions in the real world that are 'easy' to work for.

[Hank Kingsley 21809]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

I've seen this a few times but I always just roll my eyes.  I think it's pretty damn impossible for any woman to achieve what she has without being somewhat of a bitch.  And would these rumors even exist if she was a man or would that just be pretty much expected of someone with power and high expectations for those that work for him?  I don't come across many people in power positions in the real world that are 'easy' to work for.

They aren't rumors It's been well known in D.C. for years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

 

[Dbeasy 15613]

 
 

Stupid tweet. Obviously the implication is that the moderate vote consolidates.

[Js1 87286]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I've seen this a few times but I always just roll my eyes.  I think it's pretty damn impossible for any woman to achieve what she has without being somewhat of a bitch.  And would these rumors even exist if she was a man or would that just be pretty much expected of someone with power and high expectations for those that work for him?  I don't come across many people in power positions in the real world that are 'easy' to work for.

 

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

They aren't rumors It's been well known in D.C. for years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

 

I think it's two-fold.

One:  men who scream and verbally abuse their staff don't get near the level of press compared to a woman who does it

Two:  most of us have seen Veep.  Or worked in Congress/Texas Lege.  Every damn one of them has a god complex and will berate staff for putting 3 ice cubes in their drink instead of 4. 

[Skipper 6412]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

They aren't rumors It's been well known in D.C. for years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

 

I don't have access but is it really all that different from how others treat their staff?  I mean can you fathom how miserable it must be to work for Trump?  Right or wrong, people that have worked for those in positions of power have dealt with assholes from the beginning of time.  And no doubt that's how she was probably "trained" by her bosses and thinks it made her better at her job.   Times are changing, and lord knows we hear more about this now with all the soft ass millenials in the workplace, but frankly I don't give a shit if the President is 'mean' so it doesn't move the needle with me.

[Ghost of LL 15705]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

They aren't rumors It's been well known in D.C. for years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/politics/amy-klobuchar-staff.html

 

GTFO with this shit.

Bill Clinton was notoriously abusive to his staff.  Just read George Stephanapolous' book for the details on that.

John McCain was a known serial abuser of not only his staff, but committee staff and the staff of other Senators.  I think @Bateshorn and I both know a guy with a first-hand account of having some desk ornament thrown at him.

But I somehow never heard that Bill Clinton was too emotional to be president.  I never heard that John McCain didn't have the temperament to be president.

Hmmmm--I wonder what the difference could be.

18 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I love how the far left on this board act like Bernie actually represents the Democratic Party considering his platform does not remotely resemble the democratic party historically.  Most of my immediate family are democrats and have voted democrat their entire lives.  They all think Bernie is batshit crazy.   

Man--I've been a Democrat longer than Bernie Sanders.

[bonnieblue 542]

From what I've heard from friends who've made the rounds in DC, she's the among the worst  in the abuse (excluding any sexual harassment type stuff) department. Like notoriously above and beyond bad.  I give women a lot more leeway in the department, but apparently she's bad even by those standards.

 

Even so, I think she could do admirable (if uninspired) cleanup duty post-trump.

Edited February 13, 2020 by bonnieblue
.

[bad_teammate 13566]

Guys listen, it's fine. If Amy wins I will wear a gimp suit in the Oval Office so whenever she's mad she can just come punish me and leave the staffers alone.

Chill out.

 

[Ghost of LL 15705]

6 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

From what I've heard from friends who've made the rounds in DC, she's the among the worst  in the abuse (excluding any sexual harassment type stuff) department. Like notoriously above and beyond bad.  I give women a lot more leeway in the department, but apparently she's bad even by those standards.

 

Even so, I think she could do admirable (if uninspired) cleanup duty post-trump.

And by the way, I really want a mean-as-fuck prosecutor in the Oval Office to go after the criminality of this administration.  People need to go to prison for a long fucking time.  It's why the Kamala-the-cop attacks never resonated with me.

[bad_teammate 13566]

A mean-as-fuck prosecutor in the Oval Office won't hurt the rich and powerful, but he/she will hurt a lot of poor people and non-white people.

No thanks.

[Bateshorn 9991]

13 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

From what I've heard from friends who've made the rounds in DC, she's the among the worst  in the abuse (excluding any sexual harassment type stuff) department. Like notoriously above and beyond bad.  I give women a lot more leeway in the department, but apparently she's bad even by those standards.

 

Even so, I think she could do admirable (if uninspired) cleanup duty post-trump.

I know and have seen so many that are horrible.  Klobucher is nothing particularly out of the ordinary.  A former Texas Senator was an absolute nightmare.  I have bad news for you:  If you're going to choose your president based on the way they treat staff, you probably need to disqualify 90% of the candidates.

I've never heard rumors about Bernie, but the flip side is Bernie is a gadfly.  He's a complete non-entity as a policy factor.  I don't know anyone, ANYONE, whose every worked with his office on anything, and that includes some of the most left wing, progressive groups in town.  I sometimes can't even get a constituent meeting with his office.  They literally won't take meetings even with Vermont voters.  They just never reply to emails or phone calls. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Bateshorn

[tantric superman 4668]

32 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And she literally has no agenda for Black people. 

Black people had their agenda for eight years.   It''s time for casserole women with bad accents to have their 4-8 years.

[Cheeseweasel 26443]

18 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I mean can you fathom how miserable it must be to work for Trump? 

Is that the new bar to set?

[bonnieblue 542]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I know and have seen so many that are horrible.  Klobucher is nothing particularly out of the ordinary.  A former Texas Senator was an absolute nightmare.  I have bad news for you:  If you're going to choose your president based on the way they treat staff, you probably need to disqualify 90% of the candidates.

I've never heard rumors about Bernie, but the flip side is Bernie is a gadfly.  He's a complete non-entity as a policy factor.  I don't know anyone, ANYONE, whose every worked with his office on anything, and that includes some of the most left wing, progressive groups in town.  3/4 you can't even get a constituent meeting with his office.  They literally won't take meetings even with Vermont voters.  They just never reply to emails or phone calls.

I've definitely heard this from a former Gary from VEEP figure.