2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Trying to establish these guys as "non-profit" doesn't really help the argument that the Swiss model is superior.

And it still doesn't answer the simple question of: Who is trying to make this an actual option on the table?

[GSU&UT 1,798]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Is this the part where progressives start mansplaining why literally all the working models in the western world to emulate actually CAN'T work here? Let me get this straight: according you, it's somehow impossible to create ANY form of universal multi-payer system because the private insurers are too powerful and entrenched, but it is possible to shut them out of the market altogether. Do I have that right?  

Switzerland would like a word with you. 

It's not impossible, I just literally have no faith that insurance companies, unless they're forced by law to have almost zero power, are going to willingly just take a step back. You can get annoyed with me all you want and use your superficial woke scolding language, but I have no trust in these companies to do anything moral ever. A tremendous number of younger people feel the same way, I don't care how much you want to explain to me that the Western European countries use some hybrid model.

After having so many issues from just getting ear tubes with my daughter and her immediately having a deductible after she was born, I want them to be wiped off the face of the earth.

Edited February 16, 2020 by GSU&UT

[Bozo_Casanova 26,277]

42 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

It's not impossible, I just literally have no faith that insurance companies, unless they're forced by law to have almost zero power, are going to willingly just take a step back. You can get annoyed with me all you want and use your superficial woke scolding language, but I have no trust in these companies to do anything moral ever. A tremendous number of younger people feel the same way, I don't care how much you want to explain to me that the Western European countries use some hybrid model.

After having so many issues from just getting ear tubes with my daughter and her immediately having a deductible after she was born, I want them to be wiped off the face of the earth.

The power and scope of the private carriers is reduced or eliminated or changed by the same mechanism: law. I understand your feelings, but if I told you and 100 other people that we were moving to the british system (also a universal hybrid multipayer system that moved away from a less broad monopsony than what sanders proposes) , you'd be dancing on the ceiling. 

Also - on the ear tubes and childbirth - I've done that with my daughters, along with tumor excisions, sleep studies, allergists, neurologists. It's tough. But the toughest thing I've experienced is what got me into this issue: the lack of basic care for my indigent mother, which ultimately cost her life at 55.

It's not like you as a relatively young parent and the rest of your millennial cohort are experiencing something that everyone else doesn't have a piece of. Your agonies in this system are only beginning. I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[David Dennison 18,652]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The power and scope of the private carriers is reduced or eliminated or changed by the same mechanism: law. I understand your feelings, but if I told you and 100 other people that we were moving to the british system (also a universal hybrid multipayer system that moved away from a less broad monopsony than what sanders proposes) , you'd be dancing on the ceiling. 

Also - on the ear tubes and childbirth - I've done that with my daughters, along with tumor excisions, sleep studies, allergists, neurologists. It's tough. But the toughest thing I've experienced is what got me into this issue: the lack of basic care for my indigent mother, which ultimately cost her life at 55.

It's not like you as a relatively young parent and the rest of your millennial cohort are experiencing something that everyone else doesn't have a piece of. Your agonies in this system are only beginning. I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

I'd be dancing on the ceiling if we just took out the 65 and over requirement for Medicare and called it a day.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

Where would you say you "are", exactly, in terms of working towards ensuring a truly universal system?

If you aren't doing much, could I interest you in helping someone who is trying?

 

[Js1 85,095]

God it’s awful how everyone but Bernie’s supporters are so nasty!1!!1

 

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Are these Bernie supporters? I scrolled through their Twitter and they seem focused on NY issues.

Don't you think it's kind of telling on yourself to just assume that anyone who opposes racist billionaires and the powerful elite buying politicians could ONLY support Bernie? lol

[RDCanecutter 26,249]

I don't think that coffin was up to code.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,277]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Where would you say you "are", exactly, in terms of working towards ensuring a truly universal system?

If you aren't doing much, could I interest you in helping someone who is trying?

 

Probably the fastest and easiest way to get to a truly universal system would be the swiss model, but we're too dumb to do that, so probably the best end point for the United States is towards something like the German system, and the best starting point for that is a public option.

 

But I'll take literally anything. It's only the Bernie folks who oppose a guaranteed issue public option as far as I know.  What I'm doing is bringing it up literally every time I talk to my elected reps and talking to their staff, and I'm shocked by how little they understand on the topic. It's worse than their understanding of the economic cycle. I don't have a  presidential candidate to work for in this primary. They all suck shit through a straw (warren sucks least probably), but I'll be working like hell to get one of them elected when they emerge from the convention. 

[TexEx15 17,456]

What is the plan for the Medicare fee schedule under MFA?

[TexEx15 17,456]

18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I’m pretty sure the plan on the campaign trail is to pretend the fee schedule will stay the same even though providers will no longer have much higher contract rates with the private insurers actually paying for all their shit.  The plan when there is an actual bill will be much different, and is TBD.

I was told MFA was the solution and good to go?

[TexEx15 17,456]

18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I’m pretty sure the plan on the campaign trail is to pretend the fee schedule will stay the same even though providers will no longer have much higher contract rates with the private insurers actually paying for all their shit.  The plan when there is an actual bill will be much different, and is TBD.

I was told MFA was the solution and good to go?

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Section 613 - Ensuring accurate valuation of services under the Medicare physician fee schedule

Periodic audits by comptroller general.
Yearly re-evaluations by CMS.
Working with OPHC and MPAC on cost estimates/needs.
Regional directors give input on costs in their region.

 

 

[Rougarou 594]

The biggest con in all of America is the home health/CMS/Medicare game. Are we going to pretend that all those Nigerian and Filipino Style embezzlement shops in home health are not going to be carried over when/if MFA gets greenlit for everybody’s health?

Edited February 16, 2020 by Rougarou

[Bama Chick 28,596]

“I’m very angry about Bloomberg being a racist! BTW, all black men in Congress look alike.”

[JimmyJames 12,271]

29 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

“I’m very angry about Bloomberg being a racist! BTW, all black men in Congress look alike.”

That looks exactly like a Russian paid troll to me. Formenting stupid controversy with incredibly dumb takes.

[F250 28,680]

4 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

I was told MFA was the solution and good to go?

Replace magnets with Congress.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

14 hours ago, Rougarou said:

The biggest con in all of America is the home health/CMS/Medicare game. Are we going to pretend that all those Nigerian and Filipino Style embezzlement shops in home health are not going to be carried over when/if MFA gets greenlit for everybody’s health?

Yes, people will still try to commit fraud and other crimes.

lol

[Aqua Buddha 14,501]

Why are some of supporters complete fucking lunatics?

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) was interrupted by anti-dairy industry protesters at a presidential campaign rally in Nevada on Sunday. 

“Bernie, I’m your biggest supporter and I’m here to ask you to stop propping up the dairy industry and stop propping up animal agriculture,” one protester, Priya Sawhney, said after taking the microphone from Sanders. 

Sawhney was part of a demonstration by the animal rights network Direct Action Everywhere. 

Three other topless women also crashed the stage with the words “let dairy die” written on their chests, before pouring milk cartons full of fake blood on themselves. The women who were topless were arrested for indecent exposure and are being held on $2,500 bond each, according to Direct Action Everywhere. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483323-sanders-interrupted-by-anti-dairy-industry-protesters-during-nevada-rally

[tantric superman 4,667]

I hope Bernie responded:  Buttermilk tastes good.  Cream cheese tastes good.

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I hope Bernie responded:  Buttermilk tastes good.  Cream cheese tastes good.

I like yogurt. I like milk on my cereal. It's good for my bowels.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

I wasn't ogling, I was contemplating the visual metaphor of their exposed breasts and their anti-dairy message.

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I wasn't ogling, I was contemplating the visual metaphor of their exposed breasts and their anti-dairy message.

Men like breasts. Women like breasts. I am for equality for all who like breasts.

[Incredulity 11,559]

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,410]

the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

[GSU&UT 1,798]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

How is the person with the widest appeal not going to freaking win a crowded primary? Isn't that literally the point of holding a primary over all 50 states? I don't get this argument at all, it' speaking more about you and less about actual people who are showing up to vote.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

Beat us.

[bad_teammate 13,132]

"Hey you know how 'basket of deplorables' failed miserably in 2016... Let's try it again but this time aim it at the youngest and most diverse base in the race!"

[Goredho 17,345]

36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

Interesting to see who the conservative machine is targeting for attacks...

• Biden:  Trump & Giuliani drum up the Ukraine scandal
• Buttigieg:  Rush calls out his gayness
• Bloomberg:  Trump starting to tweet about him

They are the centrist threats.  I bet if Amy Klobuafkjker were finishing higher, she'd be in that list, too.

It seems the strategy is to get Trump in a campaign vs a left-wing democrat, like Bernie.  That will allow Trump to somewhat accurately position himself as the "not-socialist" candidate, and that voting for him would be a vote against socialism in America.  It is probably a decent strategy.  It won't work on me or many others here, but I bet it works on many voters that might vote for a centrist democrat over Trump.

[Zonahorn 8,079]

Holy shit the ages they polled

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Calihorn

[Zonahorn 8,079]

For reference, 18-29 was 18% in 2016

[GSU&UT 1,798]

That is a very bad poll for Biden, Pete, and Warren that they're so low with the old crowd. I bet Steyer takes second, he's spent a shitload advertising there.

[Hank Kingsley 20,678]

Just now, GSU&UT said:

That is a very bad poll for Biden, Pete, and Warren that they're so low with the old crowd. I bet Steyer takes second, he's spent a shitload advertising there.

Or it's just a very bad poll that no one should take seriously. 

 

[GSU&UT 1,798]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Or it's just a very bad poll that no one should take seriously. 

 

I do what I want sir

[Skipper 6,103]

32 minutes ago, Goredho said:

It seems the strategy is to get Trump in a campaign vs a left-wing democrat, like Bernie.  That will allow Trump to somewhat accurately position himself as the "not-socialist" candidate, and that voting for him would be a vote against socialism in America.  It is probably a decent strategy.  It won't work on me or many others here, but I bet it works on many voters that might vote for a centrist democrat over Trump.

Of course that's their strategy.  Bernie is a layup for Trump.

[David Dennison 18,652]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

Of course that's their strategy.  Bernie is a layup for Trump.

Trump was a layup for Hillary.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Aqua Buddha 14,501]

Bern has consistently polled badly with olds, though, and that's not to be discounted.  They're reliable voters.  Bern's argument against that is he brings a lot of new, younger voters to the polls and that's why pundits and people on here keep talking about his turnout numbers.  They're just not there so far.  

If Steyer and Klobs come in #1 and #2 in Nevada, the chattering Beltway crowd will have a meltdown.

[GSU&UT 1,798]

Lol Klobuchar isn't coming in second in Nevada, holy shit.

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

Why do the olds like Klobuchar?

[GSU&UT 1,798]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Why do the olds like Klobuchar?

Her big ideas are tax credits for students with massive debt, and that's about it. They got theirs, fuck those snowflake millennials.

[Aqua Buddha 14,501]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Why do the olds like Klobuchar?

She's the only one in the field younger than them?

[tantric superman 4,667]

3 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Why do the olds like Klobuchar?

They like the idea of a woman president almost as much as they hate commonists.

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

Just now, tantric superman said:

They like the idea of a woman president almost as much as they hate commonists.

I fucking hate commonists too. No one should be common or push anyone to be common. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,410]

1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

How is the person with the widest appeal not going to freaking win a crowded primary? Isn't that literally the point of holding a primary over all 50 states? I don't get this argument at all, it' speaking more about you and less about actual people who are showing up to vote.

I don't think we know who has the widest appeal until someone starts to poll closer to 50%.

the point of the primary is to pick the candidate that will win the general election.  Every other point is far down the list.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,410]

double post

Edited February 17, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Js1 85,095]

I mean, I think it's slightly not okay to have polled the inside of the casinos at 6am on a Thursday. And specifically the nickel and penny slots.  

[Huckleberry 32,694]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

I mean, I think it's slightly not okay to have polled the inside of the casinos at 6am on a Thursday. And specifically the nickel and penny slots.  

They offset that concern by also polling residents via landline telephone numbers.

[Js1 85,095]

10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Why do the olds like Klobuchar?

Have you seen her dance?

Plus she knows her way around a hot dish.  

[Cheeseweasel 26,437]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Have you seen her dance?

Plus she knows her way around a hot dish.  

[Dbeasy 14,963]

Her big ideas are tax credits for students with massive debt, and that's about it. They got theirs, fuck those snowflake millennials.

Or, maybe they still believe in the fundamental American principle of fairness, where the objective is to balance individual responsibility for decisions and actions with the responsibility of government to ensure a fair opportunity. This is probably the single
most important principle in this country and some of you forget that.

And maybe they don’t believe in promising massive free money just to buy votes and/or encourage moral hazard behavior.