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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Is this the part where progressives start mansplaining why literally all the working models in the western world to emulate actually CAN'T work here? Let me get this straight: according you, it's somehow impossible to create ANY form of universal multi-payer system because the private insurers are too powerful and entrenched, but it is possible to shut them out of the market altogether. Do I have that right?  

Switzerland would like a word with you. 

It's not impossible, I just literally have no faith that insurance companies, unless they're forced by law to have almost zero power, are going to willingly just take a step back. You can get annoyed with me all you want and use your superficial woke scolding language, but I have no trust in these companies to do anything moral ever. A tremendous number of younger people feel the same way, I don't care how much you want to explain to me that the Western European countries use some hybrid model.

After having so many issues from just getting ear tubes with my daughter and her immediately having a deductible after she was born, I want them to be wiped off the face of the earth.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26553

Posted
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

It's not impossible, I just literally have no faith that insurance companies, unless they're forced by law to have almost zero power, are going to willingly just take a step back. You can get annoyed with me all you want and use your superficial woke scolding language, but I have no trust in these companies to do anything moral ever. A tremendous number of younger people feel the same way, I don't care how much you want to explain to me that the Western European countries use some hybrid model.

After having so many issues from just getting ear tubes with my daughter and her immediately having a deductible after she was born, I want them to be wiped off the face of the earth.

The power and scope of the private carriers is reduced or eliminated or changed by the same mechanism: law. I understand your feelings, but if I told you and 100 other people that we were moving to the british system (also a universal hybrid multipayer system that moved away from a less broad monopsony than what sanders proposes) , you'd be dancing on the ceiling. 

Also - on the ear tubes and childbirth - I've done that with my daughters, along with tumor excisions, sleep studies, allergists, neurologists. It's tough. But the toughest thing I've experienced is what got me into this issue: the lack of basic care for my indigent mother, which ultimately cost her life at 55.

It's not like you as a relatively young parent and the rest of your millennial cohort are experiencing something that everyone else doesn't have a piece of. Your agonies in this system are only beginning. I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

Posted
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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The power and scope of the private carriers is reduced or eliminated or changed by the same mechanism: law. I understand your feelings, but if I told you and 100 other people that we were moving to the british system (also a universal hybrid multipayer system that moved away from a less broad monopsony than what sanders proposes) , you'd be dancing on the ceiling. 

Also - on the ear tubes and childbirth - I've done that with my daughters, along with tumor excisions, sleep studies, allergists, neurologists. It's tough. But the toughest thing I've experienced is what got me into this issue: the lack of basic care for my indigent mother, which ultimately cost her life at 55.

It's not like you as a relatively young parent and the rest of your millennial cohort are experiencing something that everyone else doesn't have a piece of. Your agonies in this system are only beginning. I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

I'd be dancing on the ceiling if we just took out the 65 and over requirement for Medicare and called it a day.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

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4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't mean to condescend, but I got where I am on this subject because I want us to have universal, cost effective care as soon as possible, not because I've got any love for private carriers. 

Where would you say you "are", exactly, in terms of working towards ensuring a truly universal system?

If you aren't doing much, could I interest you in helping someone who is trying?

 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26553

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Where would you say you "are", exactly, in terms of working towards ensuring a truly universal system?

If you aren't doing much, could I interest you in helping someone who is trying?

 

Probably the fastest and easiest way to get to a truly universal system would be the swiss model, but we're too dumb to do that, so probably the best end point for the United States is towards something like the German system, and the best starting point for that is a public option.

 

But I'll take literally anything. It's only the Bernie folks who oppose a guaranteed issue public option as far as I know.  What I'm doing is bringing it up literally every time I talk to my elected reps and talking to their staff, and I'm shocked by how little they understand on the topic. It's worse than their understanding of the economic cycle. I don't have a  presidential candidate to work for in this primary. They all suck shit through a straw (warren sucks least probably), but I'll be working like hell to get one of them elected when they emerge from the convention. 

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TexEx15

TexEx15 17568

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18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I’m pretty sure the plan on the campaign trail is to pretend the fee schedule will stay the same even though providers will no longer have much higher contract rates with the private insurers actually paying for all their shit.  The plan when there is an actual bill will be much different, and is TBD.

I was told MFA was the solution and good to go?

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TexEx15

TexEx15 17568

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Posted
18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I’m pretty sure the plan on the campaign trail is to pretend the fee schedule will stay the same even though providers will no longer have much higher contract rates with the private insurers actually paying for all their shit.  The plan when there is an actual bill will be much different, and is TBD.

I was told MFA was the solution and good to go?

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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The biggest con in all of America is the home health/CMS/Medicare game. Are we going to pretend that all those Nigerian and Filipino Style embezzlement shops in home health are not going to be carried over when/if MFA gets greenlit for everybody’s health?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13224

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Rougarou said:

The biggest con in all of America is the home health/CMS/Medicare game. Are we going to pretend that all those Nigerian and Filipino Style embezzlement shops in home health are not going to be carried over when/if MFA gets greenlit for everybody’s health?

Yes, people will still try to commit fraud and other crimes.

lol

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14609

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Why are some of supporters complete fucking lunatics?

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) was interrupted by anti-dairy industry protesters at a presidential campaign rally in Nevada on Sunday. 

“Bernie, I’m your biggest supporter and I’m here to ask you to stop propping up the dairy industry and stop propping up animal agriculture,” one protester, Priya Sawhney, said after taking the microphone from Sanders. 

Sawhney was part of a demonstration by the animal rights network Direct Action Everywhere. 

Three other topless women also crashed the stage with the words “let dairy die” written on their chests, before pouring milk cartons full of fake blood on themselves. The women who were topless were arrested for indecent exposure and are being held on $2,500 bond each, according to Direct Action Everywhere. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483323-sanders-interrupted-by-anti-dairy-industry-protesters-during-nevada-rally

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13523

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the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

How is the person with the widest appeal not going to freaking win a crowded primary? Isn't that literally the point of holding a primary over all 50 states? I don't get this argument at all, it' speaking more about you and less about actual people who are showing up to vote.

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Goredho

Goredho 17419

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36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the progressives should realize that the biggest threat to their ideals is 4 more years of Trump reshaping the judiciary for the next generation. This is especially important since we're in an era where the Legislative branch has directly or indirectly delegated much of their function to the other 2 branches.

The best path to kick out Trump is nominating a candidate that has the widest appeal. Even if that candidate is moderate or about as far right as a "Democrat" can be. Then the progressives can take their fight to Congress and lobby the new President.

But if the plan is Ride or Die with a progressive POTUS candidate, then the result will be losing in 2020. And please don't reply back that the Dems have lost with moderate candidates in the past. That argument has been rebutted every time.

 

Interesting to see who the conservative machine is targeting for attacks...

  • Biden:  Trump & Giuliani drum up the Ukraine scandal
  • Buttigieg:  Rush calls out his gayness
  • Bloomberg:  Trump starting to tweet about him

They are the centrist threats.  I bet if Amy Klobuafkjker were finishing higher, she'd be in that list, too.

It seems the strategy is to get Trump in a campaign vs a left-wing democrat, like Bernie.  That will allow Trump to somewhat accurately position himself as the "not-socialist" candidate, and that voting for him would be a vote against socialism in America.  It is probably a decent strategy.  It won't work on me or many others here, but I bet it works on many voters that might vote for a centrist democrat over Trump.

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Skipper

Skipper 6200

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32 minutes ago, Goredho said:


It seems the strategy is to get Trump in a campaign vs a left-wing democrat, like Bernie.  That will allow Trump to somewhat accurately position himself as the "not-socialist" candidate, and that voting for him would be a vote against socialism in America.  It is probably a decent strategy.  It won't work on me or many others here, but I bet it works on many voters that might vote for a centrist democrat over Trump.

Of course that's their strategy.  Bernie is a layup for Trump.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14609

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Bern has consistently polled badly with olds, though, and that's not to be discounted.  They're reliable voters.  Bern's argument against that is he brings a lot of new, younger voters to the polls and that's why pundits and people on here keep talking about his turnout numbers.  They're just not there so far.  

If Steyer and Klobs come in #1 and #2 in Nevada, the chattering Beltway crowd will have a meltdown.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13523

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Posted
1 hour ago, GSU&UT said:

How is the person with the widest appeal not going to freaking win a crowded primary? Isn't that literally the point of holding a primary over all 50 states? I don't get this argument at all, it' speaking more about you and less about actual people who are showing up to vote.

I don't think we know who has the widest appeal until someone starts to poll closer to 50%.

the point of the primary is to pick the candidate that will win the general election.  Every other point is far down the list.

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15091

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Her big ideas are tax credits for students with massive debt, and that's about it. They got theirs, fuck those snowflake millennials.


Or, maybe they still believe in the fundamental American principle of fairness, where the objective is to balance individual responsibility for decisions and actions with the responsibility of government to ensure a fair opportunity. This is probably the single
most important principle in this country and some of you forget that.

And maybe they don’t believe in promising massive free money just to buy votes and/or encourage moral hazard behavior.
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