2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13544]

Socialist Bernie has three homes!!!!!
It'll be a non stop drip of things like that for 8 months.

A nonstop drop of already-failed oppo?!? OH NO!!!

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

Just now, Skipper said:

Sure they will use it.  But I can't fathom THAT being the issue that would make someone vote for Trump over Bernie.   

I generally agree, but the GOP attacks will just be to crop dust voters with negative shit. 

But it could weaken one big argument against Trump (that he's old and unfit for office) if he faces off against Biden, Bloomberg, or Bernie, who are all older than him and have had their own health issues. 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14807]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

The problem is the GOP has gone full Trump.  I don't see the Mitt Romney's of the world taking that party back over anytime soon regardless of what happens in this election.

Don't discount their ability to do a 180 on anything with a straight face.  Look at their deficit positions and the media always takes them seriously.

[GSU&UT 1799]

21 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Republicans were handed the ammo the day Bernie had a heart attack. Do you think they'll just ignore it in the general election? 

 

he released his tax records, show that he made a couple million off his book, and Republicans are now going to use that 100% against him to say he's a millionaire and that he cannot represent the working classt. this is dead simple

Edited February 19, 2020 by GSU&UT

[bad_teammate 13544]

Guys we have to choose a candidate the Republicans won't attack!!

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

Transparency is good. If he didn't release his tax returns, the argument would be "how much money does Bernie have???? $5 million? $10 million? What is he hiding? ". 

 

 

[Zonahorn 8079]

Love hearing about electability from people that don't know who and who isn't electable.

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Transparency is good. If he didn't release his tax returns, the argument would be "how much money does Bernie have???? $5 million? $10 million? What is he hiding? ". 

 

 

He should do this when Pete breaks his NDAs, how about that?

[Zonahorn 8079]

I'd also like to point out Trump never released his tax returns and its cost him nothing.

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

Just now, Calihorn said:

Love hearing about electability from people that don't know who and who isn't electable.

None of us really know. But please, post a jillion more polls proving Bernie's "electability". 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

He should do this when Pete breaks his NDAs, how about that?

??? 

[Zonahorn 8079]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

None of us really know. But please, post a jillion more polls proving Bernie's "electability". 

 

I'm posting data dude.

[Aqua Buddha 14807]

5 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

he released his tax records, show that he made a couple million off his book, and Republicans are now going to use that 100% against him to say he's a millionaire and that he cannot represent the working classt. this is dead simple

They took the most milquetoasty Democrat in our lifetime who never made more than his Congressional salary (Biden) into a comic book villain living off billions of laundered money.  They are complete masters of this.

[Skipper 6411]

1 minute ago, Calihorn said:

Love hearing about electability from people that don't know who and who isn't electable.

Given the idealogical divide and vitriol within the Democratic party, I really don't think anyone outside of Trump is electable.  Thought that a year ago and only more convinced now with Biden's downfall.  A competent Biden had the best shot.

[GSU&UT 1799]

3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

??? 

You've posted several times about Bernie needing to be transparent, do you not honestly remember people pushing for Pete to break his NDAs with his work at McKenzie, and he basically only released a summary? Does this not seem similar at all?

[Aqua Buddha 14807]

This is really all Biden's fault and I'm being dead serious.  He's been the presumptive front runner for two years now, claiming the "electability" lane.  Then, when the game starts, he had a shitty organization, no real strategy, no money, and stumbled and confused debate performances.  He hasn't earned the right to be here at this point.  The rest of the finalists have.

 

[henrygandorf 29227]

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What does "full medical records" mean?

Eagerly awaiting the responses.

a much longer, strongly worded letter.  and if the docs want to drop in some profanity, i'm down.

(it's not about the records, it's about saying you're going to do something then not doing it, just like the tax returns)

[Skipper 6411]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

This is really all Biden's fault and I'm being dead serious.  He's been the presumptive front runner for two years now, claiming the "electability" lane.  Then, when the game starts, he had a shitty organization, no real strategy, no money, and stumbled and confused debate performances.  He hasn't earned the right to be here at this point.  The rest of the finalists have.

 

Mostly agree except I don't think better organization, strategy or money could save him from the fact he just got old.  He was never an elite speaker or politician to begin with but has by far been the least impressive candidate.   It was eventually going to catch up to him.

[Zonahorn 8079]

5 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

This is really all Biden's fault and I'm being dead serious.  He's been the presumptive front runner for two years now, claiming the "electability" lane.  Then, when the game starts, he had a shitty organization, no real strategy, no money, and stumbled and confused debate performances.  He hasn't earned the right to be here at this point.  The rest of the finalists have.

 

Its almost like his entire candidacy was based on a parasitic cycle of punditry based on his electability rather than any ground game or policy.

[Zonahorn 8079]

Harris X has been Biden's best poll. to see him behind even there is significant.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Calihorn

[GSU&UT 1799]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

a much longer, strongly worded letter.  and if the docs want to drop in some profanity, i'm down.

(it's not about the records, it's about saying you're going to do something then not doing it, just like the tax returns)

Literally the only thing you can get mad at him is not phrasing it correctly because he said "full records" and released physician summaries, basically what everyone else has done. If you aren't going to support Bernie because of this since it seems untrustworthy then you were never going to support him in the first place, this is just cable news fodder that clearly hasn't affected his polling. If you think this is going to hurt him then I'd invite you to see how he literally rose in polling from second to first after his "heart attack."

[Aqua Buddha 14807]

4 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Harris X has been Biden's best poll. to see him behind even there is significant.

I'm of the opinion that most of Biden's support is really "undecided" at this point.  They're there because that's where they started but now that he collapsed, they're looking.  It's like still being married but knowing it's about to end.  You've got one eye looking.

[bad_teammate 13544]

a much longer, strongly worded letter.  and if the docs want to drop in some profanity, i'm down.
(it's not about the records, it's about saying you're going to do something then not doing it, just like the tax returns)

Ah yes, launching a credibility attack against Bernie Sanders.

lol

[F250 29201]

44 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Republicans were handed the ammo the day Bernie had a heart attack. Do you think they'll just ignore it in the general election? 

 

If he can get this guy to sign off on his health, everything should be fine.

 

[bad_teammate 13544]

If he can get this guy to sign off on his health, everything should be fine.
 

This guy rules. Trump wrote the letter and he just signed it.

[6th Street 6692]

Sanders' health doesn't matter. The bigger concern for voters will be the likelihood of higher taxes and govt run healthcare under a Sanders regime. It's basically impossible to win a general election while campaigning on a tax increase.

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

22 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

You've posted several times about Bernie needing to be transparent, do you not honestly remember people pushing for Pete to break his NDAs with his work at McKenzie, and he basically only released a summary? Does this not seem similar at all?

He didn’t want to break his NDA as it was a legal contract. He called on McKinsey to release him from his NDA, they did, and then he released the info on projects for companies/entities he worked for. 

[GSU&UT 1799]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He didn’t want to break his NDA as it was a legal contract. He called on McKinsey to release him from his NDA, they did, and then he released the info on projects for companies/entities he worked for. 

Ohh okay, even though lots of lawyers say that he wouldn't face any legal consequence for doing so. And he released only very basic summaries of what he did. What is he hiding?!!!!!! See how that sounds? But yes, continue to lecture us on Bernie's strategy though, if he had you on their team he'd been on a nation-wide apology tour and polling dead last.

Edited February 19, 2020 by GSU&UT

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

13 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Sanders' health doesn't matter. The bigger concern for voters will be the likelihood of higher taxes and govt run healthcare under a Sanders regime. It's basically impossible to win a general election while campaigning on a tax increase.

Maybe this was Sanders' plan all along. He knows his health is failing and he knows it's going to be expensive. BOOM. Free for everyone!

[GRHorn 105]

55 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

If I'm the GOP, a Bern victory in the general is great long game.  I get rid of Trump and can start over again like nothing happened.  I make big gains in the mid terms and take the House back.  I rebrand the Democratic Party the "Democrat Socialist Party" and then win in a landslide in 2024 with a normal candidate.  All the while, 0% of Bern's platform gets through even a Democratic Congress.

You’re 100% correct if you exclude the Supreme Court makeup. The ultimate Long Game. 

[GW Hayduke 1957]

Bernie wins the nomination, and in the first debate, the moderator asks Bernie, “Are you a socialist and are you going to raise taxes?”

Bernie says, “Yes and Yes.”

That will be the end of the debate and the election will be over. Trump can pull out and wank his little mushroom on live TV and it won’t matter. 

[Goredho 17658]

18 hours ago, David Dennison said:

No. There will be massive bloodshed if he makes any attempt to stay beyond a second term.

By who exactly?   You?  Me? So far the “resistance” is pretty vapid.  The sum total of its effects are pockets of impotent rage simmering in corners of the Internet.  We are no where near a tipping point of action, and by then it will be too late.

I’m pretty sure Chuck Woolery and his merry band of cowboys and mountain men have won with nary a shot being fired.

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

9 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Ohh okay, even though lots of lawyers say that he wouldn't face any legal consequence for doing so. And he released only very basic summaries of what he did. What is he hiding?!!!!!! See how that sounds? But yes, continue to lecture us on Bernie's strategy though, if he had you on their team he'd been on a nation-wide apology tour and polling dead last.

Sorry, man. This is a really weak argument. Bernie said he would release his full medical records. Now he won’t. 
 

Pete delivered on the questions of which companies he worked for at McKinsey.

[F250 29201]

22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

26 minutes ago, F250 said:

If he can get this guy to sign off on his health, everything should be fine.
 

Read more  

This guy rules. Trump wrote the letter and he just signed it.

Bernie should do the same.

22 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Sanders' health doesn't matter. The bigger concern for voters will be the likelihood of higher taxes and govt run healthcare under a Sanders regime. It's basically impossible to win a general election while campaigning on a tax increase.

Bernie just needs to say Mexico will pay for M4A.

[henrygandorf 29227]

12 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Ohh okay, even though lots of lawyers say that he wouldn't face any legal consequence for doing so. And he released only very basic summaries of what he did. What is he hiding?!!!!!! See how that sounds? But yes, continue to lecture us on Bernie's strategy though, if he had you on their team he'd been on a nation-wide apology tour and polling dead last.

the whole saga lasted about a week.  maybe less.  they asked for a list of companies he did work for, and he released what they asked for.

are you remembering it wrong?  are you bent out of shape that he waited 5 days until he was released from his nda?

people demand things, then once they get them, they shut up about it.  not the other way around.

[GRHorn 105]

Cross posted from the media bias thread. 
 

 

 

[henrygandorf 29227]

32 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Literally the only thing you can get mad at him is not phrasing it correctly because he said "full records" and released physician summaries, basically what everyone else has done. If you aren't going to support Bernie because of this since it seems untrustworthy then you were never going to support him in the first place, this is just cable news fodder that clearly hasn't affected his polling. If you think this is going to hurt him then I'd invite you to see how he literally rose in polling from second to first after his "heart attack."

i'm not mad at all, and i don't think many people are either.  and i don't think this will 'hurt' him in the polls.  i'm just explaining why people are acting the way they're acting.

but just like the taxes - why give them more ammo?  they beat the tax drum until he released them, and there was nothing to hide.  he said he was going to release his medical records, and he hasn't, and now it's a story.  i don't think he's hiding anything, but why give anyone more ammo?  make trump the guy who won't release his tax returns, financials, or medical records.

also you shouldn't put heart attack in quotes.  he had a heart attack.

[heso 2863]

538 revised their predicted delegate counts from this morning. Bernie down from 1660 to 1560. Bloomberg jumps Biden at 875 and 865, both up about a hundred. Pete down a bunch to 309. Warren and Klobs both roughly flat 323 & 114.

looks like the major adjustments were SC, NC, VA, TN, AL, AR. All had significant cuts to Bernie and Pete with moderate jumps across the board for Bloomer and a few huge jumps for Biden, some back to pre-Iowa levels.

My guess is they initially over corrected for Biden’s crash after Iowa, forgetting that it’s not at all representative of the rest of the country. 

[GSU&UT 1799]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Sorry, man. This is a really weak argument. Bernie said he would release his full medical records. Now he won’t. 
 

Pete delivered on the questions of which companies he worked for at McKinsey.

There is strong evidence Pete was at least tangentially involved with that bread price fixing scandal but because he released a very generic summary we'll never know. Bernie released three letters, but yeah this is a much bigger deal.

 

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the whole saga lasted about a week.  maybe less.  they asked for a list of companies he did work for, and he released what they asked for.

are you remembering it wrong?  are you bent out of shape that he waited 5 days until he was released from his nda?

people demand things, then once they get them, they shut up about it.  not the other way around.

Like I said, if you and Hank were on his staff you'd have him apologizing constantly for every single thing he's been criticized for and he would be polling dead last. There is no upside to doing this, you say he's already going to have attack ads against him. Literally why release anything showing him he's an old man so that even more attack ads can be written? It makes no sense and no one cares. If they do they wouldn't have ever voted for Bernie in the first place.

[henrygandorf 29227]

5 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Like I said, if you and Hank were on his staff you'd have him apologizing constantly for every single thing he's been criticized for and he would be polling dead last. There is no upside to doing this, you say he's already going to have attack ads against him. Literally why release anything showing him he's an old man so that even more attack ads can be written? It makes no sense and no one cares. If they do they wouldn't have ever voted for Bernie in the first place.

then why did he release his tax returns?

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

then why did he release his tax returns?

Because everyone else started to? I already pointed out that no other candidate has released anymore detailed medical history, they've all basically released these same kinds of letters. If we get to a point where the older candidates start releasing extremely detailed histories and Bernie is the last guy and refuses then there is at least a lot more evidence to attack him about hiding something or being hypocritical.

[Jive Turkey 13008]

22 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Bernie wins the nomination, and in the first debate, the moderator asks Bernie, “Are you a socialist and are you going to raise taxes?”

Bernie says, “Yes and Yes.”

That will be the end of the debate and the election will be over. Trump can pull out and wank his little mushroom on live TV and it won’t matter. 

This assumes, of course, that there will be an actual debate. I still think Trump’s people will fight like hell to prevent them, claiming media bias, etc. The real reason will be that they don’t want unhinged, unscripted, pilled up Trump on stage with a microphone in front of him. There’s no telling what he’ll say. Trump will want to debate. He loves that limelight. And if Bernie is the D candidate, I bet he gets his wish. 

[henrygandorf 29227]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

Because everyone else started to? I already pointed out that no other candidate has released anymore detailed medical history, they've all basically released these same kinds of letters. If we get to a point where the older candidates start releasing extremely detailed histories and Bernie is the last guy and refuses then there is at least a lot more evidence to attack him about hiding something or being hypocritical.

no, he was the last one (besides trump).  and he was starting to get shit for it.  there was no upside to doing it.  it made no sense and no one cared.  anyone who cared wouldn't have voted for bernie anyway.

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

no, he was the last one (besides trump).  and he was starting to get shit for it.  there was no upside to doing it.  it made no sense and no one cared.  anyone who cared wouldn't have voted for bernie anyway.

It's almost like there's actual pressure when you're the only one not participating and that isn't the case here, huh imagine that.

[bad_teammate 13544]

then why did he release his tax returns?

Because he's decorum poisoned and was too eager to take bad faith trolls as if they were operating in good faith.

Definitely a concern for me if Bernie doesn't learn to better identify the snakes in the grass.

[henrygandorf 29227]

5 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

It's almost like there's actual pressure when you're the only one not participating and that isn't the case here, huh imagine that.

i would like to see medical records for all of the front-runners over 75.  but right now, unfortunately, he's the only one who had a heart attack in the past 6 months.  he's also the only one who said he would do it.

so funny how you guys all go into defensive ex-girlfriend bitch mode when there's a story out there you don't like.

[GSU&UT 1799]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i would like to see medical records for all of the front-runners over 75.  but right now, unfortunately, he's the only one who had a heart attack in the past 6 months.  he's also the only one who said he would do it.

so funny how you guys all go into defensive ex-girlfriend bitch mode when there's a story out there you don't like.

If he starts this and no one else follows up then he's made a gross miscalculation. If Biden, Liz, and Bloomberg do this then he looks like a stubborn asshole and I can buy that criticism if he doesn't releasing anything. You're the one getting extremely hung up on what medical records exactly mean and can't take his doctors letters as being in good faith.

Maybe I am getting defensive but I do think it won't matter in the end. It's Surly, I spend probably half my time between here and another board and I like to post. I don't mind arguing about politics anymore and enjoy it.

Edited February 19, 2020 by GSU&UT

[Zonahorn 8079]

South Carolina is gonna be very close.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Calihorn

[Hank Kingsley 21789]

26 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

There is strong evidence Pete was at least tangentially involved with that bread price fixing scandal but because he released a very generic summary we'll never know. 

No, there isn’t.

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

FDR suffered from polio when he ran for President. 

JFK had Addison's Disease when he ran for President.