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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21143

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Fuck this defeatist shit.  We’ll nominate a candidate.  And that candidate will be miles better than Donald Trump.  And each and every one of us who despises Trump will vote for that candidate, because it’s the right thing to do (even if it’s not the ideal choice).

Listen - I hate Trump.  Go look at my hundred posts over there.  I wish he'd drop dead yesterday.  The problem is Bern has admitted to being a socialist - that is never gonna fly in the general.  Brisket's ledge has a spot for you as well. 

Bern's competition is fucking terrible.  Bloomberg can barely speak english.  When he can string something together it comes out like this:  "I think kids like socialism, because they like social media and think, OH!, Socialism - yeah that's good!"  That may not be as offensive as Trump quotes but it's every bit as dumb as anything he has said.  

I hope somebody else emerges but if it's Bern vs Bloom, this shit is over.  

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

She is smart, but she’s also a weasel.  The snake stuff was actually pretty appropriate.  Like with Ted Cruz, the weasel part overcomes the smart part and yields some ridiculous results where they get too cute for their own good.

Good analysis. She's smart, but not as smart as she thinks she is and the smug is annoying. 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18216

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Listen - I hate Trump.  Go look at my hundred posts over there.  I wish he'd drop dead yesterday.  The problem is Bern has admitted to being a socialist - that is never gonna fly in the general.  Brisket's ledge has a spot for you as well. 

Bern's competition is fucking terrible.  Bloomberg can barely speak english.  When he can string something together it comes out like this:  "I think kids like socialism, because they like social media and think, OH!, Socialism - yeah that's good!"  That may not be as offensive as Trump quotes but it's every bit as dumb as anything he has said.  

I hope somebody else emerges but if it's Bern vs Bloom, this shit is over.  

Why?  You not going to vote for them?  Why worry about what everyone else might do and assume other voters are going to fuck up?  Take a stand, let people know about it, and help build momentum for whomever ends up the Dem nominee.  

And FWIW, I know you are not a Trump guy.  Never meant to imply otherwise.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Lovely! 

 

 

politics on both sides have become a giant game of whataboutism.  even down to bernie’s response to the behavior of the bro’s. do something or don’t do something, but stop whining about what everybody else does while avoiding the question entirely.  

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yoladu

yoladu 4090

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

I just want to clarify that Bernie’s plan per his website, and reiterated both in the debate and in bad_teammate’s talking points, is that he wants to give workers a 20% ownership stake.   Not just 20% of the board seats.  He literally wants to take away 20% of the ownership and have that owned by “employees”.   He will do this by forcing companies to dilute shareholders and divert profits to an employee ownership fund until the fund has 20% of the company’s market cap.  
 

https://berniesanders.com/issues/corporate-accountability-and-democracy/

Don’t fall into the trap of letting b_t whitewash this with some nonsense about this just being for board seats.  Bernie’s actual plan is absurd and would outright steal 20% of the publicly traded stock market (and mid to large private companies) from current investors.   

But he’s not a socialist!  No different than FDR!

I was going to say "good luck" with that plan, the President isn't a dictator, he needs Congress to approve.....

but then i stopped myself and realizing just how much power the GOP has acquiesced to the Executive Branch.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted (edited)

Look, it was a lot of fun to watch, but Mike Bloomberg is the slowest and weakest buffalo in the herd. Taking him down is satisfying, but if Liz is going to take that as a sign that she's ready to come after the Great Thunderbird Bernie again then she's dancing at the wrong clouds.

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

even down to bernie’s response to the behavior of the bro’s

Did you know that the moderator asking him that question referred to Bernie's supporters as his "brownshirts", a reference to the Nazis that literally murdered a huge portion of Bernie's family?

That's the guy paid millions and millions to be on TV and was held to zero account for it. Words can't express how pathetic Bernie Bro whining is at this point.

Edited by bad_teammate
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Did you know that the moderator asking him that question referred to Bernie's supporters as his "brownshirts", a reference to the Nazis that literally murdered a huge portion of Bernie's family?

That's the guy paid millions and millions to be on TV and was held to zero account for it. Words can't express how pathetic Bernie Bro whining is at this point.

i was talking about what I’ve seen on twitter the past week or so. i have not watched the debate. what the fuck are you on about?

or are you just using more whataboutism as some sort of performance piece to prove my point?  if so, well played. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45665

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Look, it was a lot of fun to watch, but Mike Bloomberg is the slowest and weakest buffalo in the herd. Taking him down is satisfying, but if Liz is going to take that as a sign that she's ready to come after the Great Thunderbird Bernie again then she's dancing at the wrong clouds.

These are the ramblings of a mad man.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Good analysis. She's smart, but not as smart as she thinks she is and the smug is annoying. 

She is a chimera. Most women in politics have to be or they get put in a corner, portrayed as mini-men, talked over and around. She and Klobuchar are fighting to stay in the race, and this was going to happen if they were still in after the big push anyway. This was some more info from Associated Press:

Quote

 

Democrats Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar are getting help for their presidential bids from separate super PACs, whether they like it or not.

Persist PAC started running ads Wednesday in Nevada to support Warren. The Massachusetts senator has made lessening the influence of unlimited spending a centerpiece of her campaign. Kitchen Table Conversations PAC is running ads in Nevada and South Carolina to help Klobuchar. The Minnesota senator has rejected contributions from corporate political action committees.

It’s the type of spending that Democrats lined up against at the start of the campaign. But as outside groups backed other candidates and billionaire Mike Bloomberg joined the race, making multimillion-dollar ad buys across the United States, the groups and supporters such as Emily’s List said they needed to jump in and help boost the campaigns of the top two women still in the race.

Emily’s List, which supports women in politics, said it’s giving $250,000 each to the pro-Klobuchar and Warren PACs.

Vice President Christina Reynolds said the group has been impressed by the campaigns the women are running and wants to help amplify their messages. Reynolds and others have said in recent weeks they believe gender bias has made it more difficult for the campaigns to break through. She said Wednesday the group decided it was time to provide assistance, working under the rules and laws currently in place rather than those Democrats may wish to see.

“While we respect their views and agree on the need for campaign finance reform, we believe this election is too important and we want to do what we can within the bounds of existing law to support them,” Reynolds said.

 

Our Revolution (Sanders PAC) has been doing well, Biden flipped and accepted SuperPac funding in October (is he a snake?) so it's pretty difficult to continue for long without it.

As for the smug part, guess I disagree. The only smug people I see are Bloomberg and occasionally Pete B. Most of the candidates are pretty humble but I'm comparing them to Donald Trump so there is that.

Now that that is out of the way, she needs to stop with the medical records. That is unnecessary and has been addressed and the 'what about X' should be either: Trump related or policy related.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13191

Posted
Posted

If you aren't talking about the debate, what "question" were you referring to regarding the Bernie Bros?

31 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

These are the ramblings of a mad man.

I'm just wondering if Liz thinks it's a good idea to go after Bernie again after getting such good feedback after disemboweling Bloomberg.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted

this takes billionaire influence to a whole other level:


Newly Minted CNN Contributor Andrew Yang Claims Bloomberg Is Actively Asking Major Dem Donors to Sit Out Primary


“Sorry, but could you say that again?” CNN reporter Dana Bash pressed. “Mike Bloomberg is calling donors saying ‘Don’t give to my opponents?'”

“Mike Bloomberg is calling donors, saying: ‘Hey, just sit this out, I got this, I’ll bankroll the whole thing. Just don’t donate to anybody.”

“You heard this or know this?” Chris Cuomo said, jumping in.

“I heard it from a major donor,” Yang replied.

“Your donor?” Bash asked.

“Yes,” Yang confirmed. “A donor said that. And it’s a person who donates to a number of candidates, ordinarily, says these are the phone calls that Mike’s been making.”
 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45665

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

this takes billionaire influence to a whole other level:


Newly Minted CNN Contributor Andrew Yang Claims Bloomberg Is Actively Asking Major Dem Donors to Sit Out Primary


“Sorry, but could you say that again?” CNN reporter Dana Bash pressed. “Mike Bloomberg is calling donors saying ‘Don’t give to my opponents?'”

“Mike Bloomberg is calling donors, saying: ‘Hey, just sit this out, I got this, I’ll bankroll the whole thing. Just don’t donate to anybody.”

“You heard this or know this?” Chris Cuomo said, jumping in.

“I heard it from a major donor,” Yang replied.

“Your donor?” Bash asked.

“Yes,” Yang confirmed. “A donor said that. And it’s a person who donates to a number of candidates, ordinarily, says these are the phone calls that Mike’s been making.”
 

That's a pretty big accusation, but I don't see any real reason for Yang to lie about it.  Fuck you Bloomberg.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

this takes billionaire influence to a whole other level:


Newly Minted CNN Contributor Andrew Yang Claims Bloomberg Is Actively Asking Major Dem Donors to Sit Out Primary


“Sorry, but could you say that again?” CNN reporter Dana Bash pressed. “Mike Bloomberg is calling donors saying ‘Don’t give to my opponents?'”

“Mike Bloomberg is calling donors, saying: ‘Hey, just sit this out, I got this, I’ll bankroll the whole thing. Just don’t donate to anybody.”

“You heard this or know this?” Chris Cuomo said, jumping in.

“I heard it from a major donor,” Yang replied.

“Your donor?” Bash asked.

“Yes,” Yang confirmed. “A donor said that. And it’s a person who donates to a number of candidates, ordinarily, says these are the phone calls that Mike’s been making.”
 

is he going to start paying people to not donate to anyone?  because at this point, what’s the difference?  also sign me up. 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

Posted
Posted

Not letting this shit go. Especially after it got called a shitty take and it seems to be getting brushed over by the msm. Stated it was my only takeaway from last night in the debate thread.

Just nonchalantly throwing around stealing elections. Outrageous. Why should the person with the most delegates not get the nomination? If you support another candidate besides Bernie why do you feel it’s ok for the few to circumvent the will of the people? 

Kyle always brings the ether and seems to be able to expound and explain with ease so I’ll leave this here. Don’t disappoint me surly.

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted (edited)

The United States does not have a capitalist economic system. That is a fact.

The United States has a mixed system - capitalism with socialist elements to account for the negative externalities of capitalism. That is a fact.  

We have capitalism with guardrails. That is social democracy. 

Even Joy Reid - a pundit who hate Sanders - recognizes those facts: 

Be smarter than a rock. Rocks elect Trump. 

Edited by washparkhorn
Don't be a rock.
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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Not letting this shit go. Especially after it got called a shitty take and it seems to be getting brushed over by the msm. Stated it was my only takeaway from last night in the debate thread.

If Sanders takes +40% of the delegates and doesn't get the nomination, the Democratic party has ZERO chance of beating Trump. ZERO POINT ZERO.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

If Sanders takes +40% of the delegates and doesn't get the nomination, the Democratic party has ZERO chance of beating Trump. ZERO POINT ZERO.

I think the superdelegates understand that. 

Each superdelegate has the equivalent of at least 10,000 votes. One person - 10,000 votes. 

Sanders tried to eliminate superdelegates. His efforts were thwarted by DNC and Clinton representatives on the committee.

Edited by washparkhorn
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Pancho

Pancho 44712

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

If Sanders takes +40% of the delegates and doesn't get the nomination, the Democratic party has ZERO chance of beating Trump. ZERO POINT ZERO.

No one is beating Trump because he's going to use Russia, again, to help himself get elected.  News today confirms that. 

With that said, I saw a poll on MSNBC that had Trump up win Wisconsin against every Dem nominee.  Even with Ds flip back Michigan and PA, they still lose. 

 

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FWD

FWD 297

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, gmr548 said:


 

 


No. Full stop. The Democratic house majority is enormous given the circumstances, the Republicans are panicking because they are getting epicly crushed in fundraising, and Ds have a healthy generic ballot lead. Republican retirements vastly outnumber Democratic retirements. The GOP would pretty much have to win back some seats in CA - even typing that is kind of lolzy. And incumbent Presidents actually haven't provided much of a boost to house races. Even a 16 seat gain matching the GOP gain from Reagan's absolute landslide in 84 wouldn't flip the house. There's very little historical precedent for the Democrats losing the house in this situation. The Republicans know that and are behaving accordingly.

If, for arguments sake, we accept that Sanders is a liability and likely to cost the party votes vs Trump, I assume you would think those votes are educated suburban whites. Those same people laid waste to the GOP house in 2018 and do not approve of Trump. They've already made it clear that they have decided against full GOP control under Trump. If they did the "hold their nose and vote for Trump bit," I think you'd see a lot of ballot splitting in house races.

In short, no. I'm sure the Rs will net a gain because of the sheer amount of defense the Ds will be playing. But a Democratic house is the one fairly sure bet in 2020.

 

Strongly disagree. GOP won the House as recently as 2016 and the Dem majority is based on a lot of small margins in suburban districts that swung in 2018. In Bernie is the nominee those are exactly the districts where his hard left agenda will play the worst. Trump will likely have a GOP House to work with in his 2nd term if Bernie gets the nom.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

No one is beating Trump because he's going to use Russia, again, to help himself get elected.  News today confirms that. 

With that said, I saw a poll on MSNBC that had Trump up win Wisconsin against every Dem nominee.  Even with Ds flip back Michigan and PA, they still lose. 

 

Wisky poll has an issue of oversampling Repubs.

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, FWD said:

Strongly disagree. GOP won the House as recently as 2016 and the Dem majority is based on a lot of small margins in suburban districts that swung in 2018. In Bernie is the nominee those are exactly the districts where his hard left agenda will play the worst. Trump will likely have a GOP House to work with in his 2nd term if Bernie gets the nom.

The road to the Presidency does not depend on white suburbanites. The will be crucial if you crush POC, the poor, the working and middle classes. But they will not take the Presidency without POC, the poor, the working and middle classes. 

So - don't. 

Edited by washparkhorn
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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, FWD said:

Strongly disagree. GOP won the House as recently as 2016 and the Dem majority is based on a lot of small margins in suburban districts that swung in 2018. In Bernie is the nominee those are exactly the districts where his hard left agenda will play the worst. Trump will likely have a GOP House to work with in his 2nd term if Bernie gets the nom.

The house isn't getting lost, we just had the highest turnout in 2018 since Nixon and even if the scary socialist is on top they aren't going to lose a 50 plus margin in the house.

Edited by GSU&UT
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FWD

FWD 297

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

The house isn't getting lost, we just had the highest turnout in 2018 and even if the scary socialist is on top they aren't going to lose a 50 plus margin in the house.

The Dem House majority is built on the swing of moderate suburbanites from R to D. If Sanders is on the ballot those voters will swing right back from D to R. Any other Dem nominee and the House is safe.

Edited by FWD
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gmr548

gmr548 16576

Posted
Posted
Strongly disagree. GOP won the House as recently as 2016 and the Dem majority is based on a lot of small margins in suburban districts that swung in 2018. In Bernie is the nominee those are exactly the districts where his hard left agenda will play the worst. Trump will likely have a GOP House to work with in his 2nd term if Bernie gets the nom.

 

You believe in the GOP more than the GOP does.

 

Edit: Also, a victorious presidential election where the GOP lost house seats doesn't help your argument much.

 

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, FWD said:

Strongly disagree. GOP won the House as recently as 2016 and the Dem majority is based on a lot of small margins in suburban districts that swung in 2018. In Bernie is the nominee those are exactly the districts where his hard left agenda will play the worst. Trump will likely have a GOP House to work with in his 2nd term if Bernie gets the nom.

You might be right. It’s too early to tell,

 

there’s a big difference between full gop control and trump with the senate but not the house.  My sanity and most people on this board will stay intact with at least the house to provide oversight for trump. When trump has the house he pushes for legislation that roughly 25% of Americans agrees with ( obamacare repeal). It’s a major headache. It will be a very stressful 2 years until the democrats would nearly certain make gains in 2022.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, FWD said:

The Dem House majority is built on the swing of moderate suburbanites from R to D. If Sanders is on the ballot those voters will swing right back from D to R. Any other Dem nominee and the House is safe.

No - it wasn't. You are erasing millions who worked their ass off in 2018 and crediting a group who doesn't have the same skin in the game with Trump. They were anti-Trump, like the rest of the voters in 2018. They are not as committed because they don't face the same hell under Trump. I believe they will do the right thing in 2020. But this campaign and election does not revolve around them - no matter how much they think it does. 

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