2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13544]

11 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Everyone with retirement savings in the stock market?

Why?

What would a shift of 2% per year in ownership toward workers actually do?

Quote

Also, the whole idea that private property rights are passé and the new frontier of American politics will be deciding what percentage of your stuff gets to be redistributed to others without your consent is kind of a big deal.

If you don't have a specific argument as to what the financial fallout would be and all you have is libertarian moralizing then I think squish liberals should feel a hell of a lot better about the policy.

2 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

401k holders.

Why would they care?

4 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

LOL you are advocating a govt mandated 2-20% EPS dilution via higher stock comp expense? That will simply be funded by: lower R&D investment, lower headcount, or 2% lower wages. 

Ok, this is closer to an actual argument...

First, the "-20%" part is bullshit and you know it. The plan is 2%/year.

But your argument overall is very similar to the arguments against minimum wage increases. The impact of these conversions on company operations would vary wildly from company to company and acting like 2% conversion in one year would lower R&D, headcount, or wages is kind of laughable. These are $100+M corporations. A $2M stock conversion isn't going to have them changing their operations. Be serious.

Stick to the moral hazard arguments.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

4 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

A lot of freaking out on the Sunday morning shows about down ballot Dems. Is there any proof that conservative Democratic and Independent voters that are uncomfortable with Bernie will go in the voter booth and vote House/Senate Dems out simply because Bernie is on top of the ticket or are they thinking that Bernie depresses them to not even show up to vote? 

It’s about both suppression of Dem vote and motivating GOP vote in downballot races. The top of the ticket heavily affects turnout.

“Socialism” as a platform is going to really hurt in Texas. A lot of moderate Dems will stay home and not vote. A lot of moderate GOP will catch the socialism fear bug and turn out. From a Texas Democrat’s perspective hopeful about the possibility of flipping the legislature, running a “socialist” at the top of ticket is about as stupid as it gets.

Edited February 23, 2020 by GW Hayduke

[F250 29201]

29 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

No, he's not. It's why I am voting for someone else in the primary. But to say he's an unmitigated disaster that would make one vote for Trump, which is what the post I was replying to implied, is curious to me given his stances are unquestionably closer to the rest of the Democratic field than they are to Trump. Essentially, I am hoping to get an explanation on that.

Most of the posters showing revulsion for Bernie are not Democrats which probably explains the sudden desire to back away from the Dems in the general. The Never Trump caucus was always a tenuous alliance that was destined to collapse.

The "Never Trumpers" are like exiled Romanovs living in the West behaving as if they still have power. Their fight is back home, no voice should be given to them by Dems so they are forced to retake their party back or die off.

As for Libertarian voters, we have no voice in the matter at all, we are G5 fans commenting on P5 conference realignment. For me, Bernie getting the nomination is like TCU getting a Big 12 invitation, I'm happy to see one of the little guys make it to the big show.

 

[Celery Man 21098]

“My vote in Texas doesn’t matter “
If you aren’t pushing the vending machine every time you’re not helping to knock it over

[FWD 297]

Most Americans still think of Bernie as "the independent that took on Hillary and got screwed". When they hear about how extreme his policies are and how he is way, way to the left of most Democrats, suburban voters who voted D in 2018 are going to run back to the GOP faster than you can believe.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2651]

8 minutes ago, F250 said:

Most of the posters showing revulsion for Bernie are not Democrats which probably explains the sudden desire to back away from the Dems in the general. The Never Trump caucus was always a tenuous alliance that was destined to collapse.

The "Never Trumpers" are like exiled Romanovs living in the West behaving as if they still have power. Their fight is back home, no voice should be given to them by Dems so they are forced to retake their party back or die off.

As for Libertarian voters, we have no voice in the matter at all, we are G5 fans commenting on P5 conference realignment. For me, Bernie getting the nomination is like TCU getting a Big 12 invitation, I'm happy to see one of the little guys make it to the big show.

 

funny, Bernie himself wasn’t  even a Democrat until recently. 
 

That said, I’m a democrat who has never voted for a single republican.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Xian

[ChiTownDoc 21345]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

He wants to move the Democratic Party left, he doesn't care about the Republican Party, he wants to improve the economy, improve healthcare, and improve the educational structure. He doesn't want to burn ANY of it down.

That's just melodrama.

I like how you’re transitioning your own platform to more palatable as Bern gets closer to the nomination.  ‘Us?  Us, Bernie Bros?  No we would never want to burn anything down.  We plan to give Wall Street the tools they need to keep the economy humming right along.’ 
 

😂

Edited February 23, 2020 by ChiTownDoc
Tools = guillotine

[GSU&UT 1799]

5 minutes ago, FWD said:

Most Americans still think of Bernie as "the independent that took on Hillary and got screwed". When they hear about how extreme his policies are and how he is way, way to the left of most Democrats, suburban voters who voted D in 2018 are going to run back to the GOP faster than you can believe.

lol, except polling in Nevada has showed he won over the moderate and more conservative democrats.

[workswithseed 2204]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Taxing billionaires... disastrous for us

Only billionaires are gonna get taxed

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

1 minute ago, Xian said:

funny, Bernie himself isn’t even a Democrat. 

Incorrect. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/05/sen-bernie-sanders-signs-pledge-declaring-democrat-2020/3074461002/

'I am a member of the Democratic Party': Sanders signs loyalty pledge for 2020 bid

Christal Hayes

USA TODAY

 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2651]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Incorrect. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/05/sen-bernie-sanders-signs-pledge-declaring-democrat-2020/3074461002/

'I am a member of the Democratic Party': Sanders signs loyalty pledge for 2020 bid

Christal Hayes

USA TODAY

 

Changed it until Recently. My overall point still stands. It isn’t just republican never trumpers turned off by sanders. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Fellow progressives and liberals who have supported other great Democratic candidates:
If I wanted to invite you (and anyone who hasn’t supported Sanders in the past for any reason) to join our movement, what language could I use?
No need for an immediate response. I ask with an open mind and open heart.

Jesus.

Just don’t be an asshole. (You usually aren’t.)

Don’t be insufferable. (You can be.)

Don’t be sanctimonious. (You can be.)

Don’t call the rest of us names. (You don’t.)

Realize that most of us agree with you 75-80% so quit lumping us in with Trumpkins.

Seriously, don’t be a dick covers it.

You should be fine. The rest of the Bros on this board however........

[FWD 297]

5 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

lol, except polling in Nevada has showed he won over the moderate and more conservative democrats.

This is exactly my point. The current perception of Bernie is as "an independent" and the guy who took on the establishment Dems in 2016. This perception has a strong appeal to moderates, but it is untenable in the long run. If he gets the nomination people will hear every single day for 6+ months about his actual policies. 

[GSU&UT 1799]

There are democrats who have voted a shitload more for Trump's judicial picks and legislation than Bernie has, no one cares except never-Trumpers. It's fine if you don't vote for Bernie, again we were the ones constantly lectured by people that we gave Trump his victory, but you can never say Trump is this existential threat that must be defeated at all costs.

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, FWD said:

This is exactly my point. The current perception of Bernie is as "an independent" and the guy who took on the establishment Dems in 2016. This perception has a strong appeal to moderates, but it is untenable in the long run. If he gets the nomination people will hear every single day for 6+ months about his actual policies. 

I'm sorry are you actually suggesting that Bernie just simply hoodwinked a ton of people in Nevada without talking about any of his policies? Suddenly the curtain is going to be opened and all these people are going to vote for Republicans? Do you know a single thing about how his campaign operates?

[bad_teammate 13544]

3 minutes ago, FWD said:

If he gets the nomination people will hear every single day for 6+ months about his actual policies. 

Yep, which will carry him to a huge victory because his policies fucking rule and are already popular even before getting the full weight of the Democratic Party behind them.

[FWD 297]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

I'm sorry are you actually suggesting that Bernie just simply hoodwinked a ton of people in Nevada without talking about any of his policies? Suddenly the curtain is going to be opened and all these people are going to vote for Republicans? Do you know a single thing about how his campaign operates?

No, I do not think the people who caucused for Bernie in Nevada aren't going to vote him. This is a small number of people. I am talking about swing voters in the general election and the House races in 2020. Bernie/Dems will be completely crushed in those races.

[FWD 297]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Yep, which will carry him to a huge victory because his policies fucking rule and are already popular even before getting the full weight of the Democratic Party behind them.

This is objectively untrue. Bernie has taken a lot of extremely unpopular opinions.

[bad_teammate 13544]

There are a few of the smaller ones that will need some selling, but that'll come with campaigning and work. I'm not worried about it at all.

What do you think Bernie and the Democrats will be doing for the next 9+ months?

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

9 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Just don’t be an asshole. (You usually aren’t.)
Don’t be insufferable. (You can be.)
Don’t be sanctimonious. (You can be.)
Don’t call the rest of us names. (You don’t.)
Realize that most of us agree with you 75-80% so quit lumping us in with Trumpkins.
Seriously, don’t be a dick covers it.

 

Thank you. Seriously. And I apologize for violating these rules of common decency. I have no excuse, but pledge to do better.

[bad_teammate 13544]

Oh hey, that Pete campaign guy who said Sanders should "muzzle" Nina Turner?

He's claiming he was hacked.

[GSU&UT 1799]

1 minute ago, FWD said:

No, I do not think the people who caucused for Bernie in Nevada aren't going to vote him. This is a small number of people. I am talking about swing voters in the general election and the House races in 2020. Bernie/Dems will be completely crushed in those races.

First off, this exact opposite candidate of Bernie ran in 2016 and we saw barely any gain in down ballot races. Second of all, acting as if there's this enormous bloc of swing voters that are squishy and voted GOP but switched to Democrats in 2018 and suddenly Bernie is going to scare them away is, at best, bullshit. There will undoubtedly be people who may be turned off, but there is no scenario where the House is going to flip back to GOP or even come close with an energized voting base that Bernie has. This idea of this magnificent swing voters is mostly bullshit anyways, people identify with a party and sometimes they do or they don't come out. Trump being on the ticket is going to motivate a LOT of Democrats to come out regardless of what they think about Bernie, the ones who are suggesting that this isn't going to happen have said that Bernie had no chance in hell at winning the nomination and yet he is the one that keeps rising in the polls.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944

[washparkhorn 9973]

This 20 minute back and forth is hopeful to me.

 

[bad_teammate 13544]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

With all due respect, that’s bullshit.  Real people own the shares of those publicly traded companies, and those people are the ones that will get diluted.  

A lot of normal people with a 401k and individual savings in the market are getting the haircut when those companies have 20% of their ownership transferred.  

And what kind of real fiscal impact will that 2%/year dilution have across an entire 401k scheme? Be serious.

Edited February 23, 2020 by bad_teammate

[troph 25231]

15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Very few Bernie bros pulled the lever for Trump. The people who voted Sanders in primaries and Trump in the general almost universally fall into two camps -- Republicans who wanted the easiest candidate for Trump to defeat, or people who responded to Trump's lies about draining the swamp and helping the little guy. Hillary didn't even bother to lie to the working class. 

Bullshit.

 

”Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)”
 

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

 

enjoy your back slapping bro fest. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by troph

[FWD 297]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

First off, this exact opposite candidate of Bernie ran in 2016 and we saw barely any gain in down ballot races. Second of all, acting as if there's this enormous bloc of swing voters that are squishy and voted GOP but switched to Democrats in 2018 and suddenly Bernie is going to scare them away is, at best, bullshit. There will undoubtedly be people who may be turned off, but there is no scenario where the House is going to flip back to GOP or even come close with an energized voting base that Bernie has. This idea of this magnificent swing voters is mostly bullshit anyways, people identify with a party and sometimes they do or they don't come out. Trump being on the ticket is going to motivate a LOT of Democrats to come out regardless of what they think about Bernie, the ones who are suggesting that this isn't going to happen have said that Bernie had no chance in hell at winning the nomination and yet he is the one that keeps rising in the polls.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944

Prediction markets now give the GOP a 43% chance of retaking the House, this is up from 30% 2 weeks ago.  If Bernie seals the nomination I would bet on even money that Dems lose the House. And just to be clear this is absolutely a nightmare scenario, but Bernie is a disaster candidate if your goal is to hold on to the right-leaning suburbs where Dems made all their gains in 2018.

[mchookem 16771]

hey, stick around, troph...we need some non-fanatical voices here!

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, FWD said:

Prediction markets now give the GOP a 43% chance of retaking the House, this is up from 30% 2 weeks ago.  If Bernie seals the nomination I would bet on even money that Dems lose the House. And just to be clear this is absolutely a nightmare scenario, but Bernie is a disaster candidate if your goal is to hold on to the right-leaning suburbs where Dems made all their gains in 2018.

Okay cool, you want to talk about numbers then you're aware that there has been tons of polling to suggest that Bernie is at worst no better than any of the other nominees to beat Trump. There is no data to suggest that Bernie is going to cause all these suburban moms to suddenly run back to the GOP, a betting line doesn't prove anything lol.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

[FWD 297]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Okay cool, you want to talk about numbers then you're aware that there has been tons of polling to suggest that Bernie is at worst no better than any of the other nominees to beat Trump. There is no data to suggest that Bernie is going to cause all these suburban moms to suddenly run back to the GOP, a betting line doesn't prove anything lol.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

My contention in this thread is that many general election swing voters perceive Bernie as an independent and hence moderate, and after 8 months of being told about his extremely unpopular and radical policies, will no longer have that perception. 

[GSU&UT 1799]

Just now, FWD said:

My contention in this thread is that many general election swing voters perceive Bernie as an independent and hence moderate, and after 8 months of being told about his extremely unpopular and radical policies, will no longer have that perception. 

There is no data to suggest this and even if people can get turned off by attack ads then you can literally say the same thing about all the other major candidates.

[6th Street 6692]

27 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

And what kind of real fiscal impact will that 2%/year dilution have across an entire 401k scheme? Be serious.

Bro if the US government is mandating a 2% tariff on all companies via higher stock comp expense at the very least they will simply pass the increase on to the customer via price increases to keep it neutral to EBITDA margins and EPS. It's as stupid idea as Trump's ridiculous tariffs on Chinese made goods. There is no free lunch. Companies have long term margin and earnings growth targets. 

[F250 29201]

26 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Fellow progressives and liberals who have supported other great Democratic candidates:

If I wanted to invite you (and anyone who hasn’t supported Sanders in the past for any reason) to join our movement, what language could I use?

First deal with the Rats jumping ship.

Rally the remaining troops.

Kick fascist ass.

[David Dennison 19553]

33 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

This 20 minute back and forth is hopeful to me.

 

Jonathan Capehart beclowned himself in that segment.

[AeroHorn 793]

25 minutes ago, troph said:

Bullshit.

 

”Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)”
 

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

 

enjoy your back slapping bro fest. 

Well, this just part of the story that Hillary highlighted and mainstream media ran with it.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

“Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.”

So, if nothing else, Hillary supporters are more to blame than Bernie voters; or in other words, more Bernie voters voted for their eventual party candidate than Hillary voters. 
 

Unfortunately this canard doesn’t die. 

[bad_teammate 13544]

3 minutes ago, FWD said:

My contention in this thread is that many general election swing voters perceive Bernie as an independent and hence moderate, and after 8 months of being told about his extremely unpopular and radical policies, will no longer have that perception. 

Voters who are unengaged now are not issues-focused voters. Most people don't vote at all.

All Sanders needs to do is project confidence and power and he'll firm up the squishies and convince a lot of people who don't like Trump.

9 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Bro if the US government is mandating a 2% tariff on all companies via higher stock comp expense at the very least they will simply pass the increase on to the customer via price increases to keep it neutral to EBITDA margins and EPS. It's as stupid idea as Trump's ridiculous tariffs on Chinese made goods. There is no free lunch. Companies have long term margin and earnings growth targets. 

Sounds like the exact same arguments made against minimum wage increases that are also bullshit.

It's an across-the-board change for all $100M. It hits them all the same.

[Bruh Man 3160]

 

39 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

This 20 minute back and forth is hopeful to me.

 

Who is the lobbyist?

[bad_teammate 13544]

Just now, Bruh Man said:

 

Who is the lobbyist?

David Plouffe

[RayDog 682]

36 minutes ago, FWD said:

Prediction markets now give the GOP a 43% chance of retaking the House, this is up from 30% 2 weeks ago.  If Bernie seals the nomination I would bet on even money that Dems lose the House. And just to be clear this is absolutely a nightmare scenario, but Bernie is a disaster candidate if your goal is to hold on to the right-leaning suburbs where Dems made all their gains in 2018.

The 2018 was a referendum on Trump. 2020 will be a referendum on Trump. Trump has gotten worse on the last two years.

There is no basis for thinking that Republicans will gain seats. Probably in 2022, but not now.

[bad_teammate 13544]

 

[Celery Man 21098]

None of this matters if Bernie is winning every primary and beating almost the entire field in some of them.  We’re not done yet but it looks a lot like he is the guy. Far worse than Bernie scaring off never Trumpers is the DNC pulling some shit to put someone else up top if it is Bernie by a mile.  We’ll see what happens Super Tuesday, if it’s more of the same it’s time to accept what you can’t change and decide what to do with what you can.

[bad_teammate 13544]

Bernie in Houston today.

It starts out Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump

This guy can, and will, fuckin' win the general election.

 

[hayden_horn 11402]

not me. us.

i do have to say that's a great political slogan.

[triplehorn 2664]

2 min excerpt from the 20 min one above:

It's going to take something monumentally big.  Still early, but we might very well be starting to see a scale of people movement over which the traditional all-encompassing forces can't handle.  I wouldn't oppose it.

[FWD 297]

49 minutes ago, RayDog said:

The 2018 was a referendum on Trump. 2020 will be a referendum on Trump. Trump has gotten worse on the last two years.

There is no basis for thinking that Republicans will gain seats. Probably in 2022, but not now.

You have it backwards. 2018 was a referendum on Trump but in 2020 it becomes a binary choice. 

[henrygandorf 29227]

2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Fellow progressives and liberals who have supported other great Democratic candidates:

If I wanted to invite you (and anyone who hasn’t supported Sanders in the past for any reason) to join our movement, what language could I use?

No need for an immediate response. I ask with an open mind and open heart.

make it about trump. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

make it about trump. 

it really is this easy.

[RayDog 682]

15 minutes ago, FWD said:

You have it backwards. 2018 was a referendum on Trump but in 2020 it becomes a binary choice. 

Wrong. The first tier of the decision tree is are you for or against Trump. The vast majority of voters will vote straight ticket after that.

Democratic turnout will be driven primarily by people who want to vote against Trump.

I will add that Trump was not on the ballot and got slaughtered in 2018. He is on the ballot this time.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by RayDog

[bad_teammate 13544]

People who have given themselves Internet PTSD or who are cable news addicts are dramatically overstating the divisiveness of Bernard Sanders. 

Click and watch the Houston speech. People love him and that is only going to grow.

[mchookem 16771]

agreed...

don't be a self-righteous prick /me

don't be a dick /bama

make it about trump /henry

eta: it's not BERNIE that is overly divisive. try a little self-reflection. sheesh. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by mchookem

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Not the biggest Bernie guy but he's about a million times better than senile Joe Biden at least.