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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted

I sincerely don't understand what you think your point is, henry.

I'm not going to encourage anyone to vote for either Biden or Trump. I'm not going to volunteer time or donate money to either. If Joe says he won't veto progressive legislation I'll go vote for him in November.

I've had, "OH SO YOU LOVE TRUMP!?!?" thrown at me a billion times since 2016 and it means nothing anymore.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

 

Lets see:

0% of the Trumpkins

0% of the folks voting in Republican Primary

0% of the folks voting for Biden in the primaries

0% of the folks that will sit it out

100% of the whiny little bitches calling for him to run as an independent since he is a two time loser.That could be significant.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
Just now, bad_teammate said:

Keep going Dan you're doing a great job of winning people over to your side. #Unity

Screw #Unity from folks like you and those throwing a fit. Drive up turn out of those that are willing to get with the program and defeat Trump. If it is not enough then to bad. Putting effort into a set of folks that are unlikely to drive toward a common goal of defeating Trump is wasting cycles that are needed elsewhere. Like a business book says. One should mitigate weaknesses and put effort into strengths. The same level of effort into a strength will make you excellent while lots of effort into a weakness will make you no more then mediocre. Mitigate the whiners and turn out the supports.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted

"Throwing a fit" is a hyperbolic mischaracterization intended to shield yourself from having to make any kind of cogent point.

Joe Biden has shown extremely poor leadership in a time of severe, epic national crisis. Obviously Trump is a rolling nightmare fire of incompetence and vanity, but nothing Biden has said or done shows inspired leadership. Obviously some say that, "Well at least he'll listen to scientists!" and perhaps he will do that more than Trump will, but what evidence we actually have when his own interests were at stake tell us otherwise.

Joe is very likely to get my vote and he's got a chance to get my active participation. Donald has zero chance at either.

If you're actually concerned about winning over allies, I'm who you look to. But that's not what concerns you, what concerns you is nursing personal grudges.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
Just now, bad_teammate said:

"Throwing a fit" is a hyperbolic mischaracterization intended to shield yourself from having to make any kind of cogent point.

Joe Biden has shown extremely poor leadership in a time of severe, epic national crisis. Obviously Trump is a rolling nightmare fire of incompetence and vanity, but nothing Biden has said or done shows inspired leadership. Obviously some say that, "Well at least he'll listen to scientists!" and perhaps he will do that more than Trump will, but what evidence we actually have when his own interests were at stake tell us otherwise.

Joe is very likely to get my vote and he's got a chance to get my active participation. Donald has zero chance at either.

If you're actually concerned about winning over allies, I'm who you look to. But that's not what concerns you, what concerns you is nursing personal grudges.

I have no need to shield myself since my argument goes no further than stop being a whiny kid and lets beat Trump. What Joe has done, believes, says or is going to do does not matter to me as long as he wins. Like the Patriots and Alabama, just win "By doing your job". 

In the future stop trying to say I am making some kind of argument because I am not making any points other than when we were kids we always criticized the kid that if they started to lose they would take their ball home. The whiny kid that takes his ball home deserves no please, please, please! from the other kids. He needs to be treated for what he is, which a sore loser.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted

So once Joe Biden is elected, what then?

It's very common for people to say "I just want Trump out" and pretend they have no other values or goals. Maybe they are hiding them on purpose or they're self-deluding. Once Biden is elected do you imagine you'll stop paying attention entirely and commenting?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This is either false or insane.

"beating trump" polls higher than pretty much every other factor combined, when asked what's important to dem voters.  also receiving votes - healthcare, climate, wealth inequality.

it's the world we live in.

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4925

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

So once Joe Biden is elected, what then?

It's very common for people to say "I just want Trump out" and pretend they have no other values or goals. Maybe they are hiding them on purpose or they're self-deluding. Once Biden is elected do you imagine you'll stop paying attention entirely and commenting?

Trump is encouraging a way of life that is terrible for minorities.  Do you think anything Biden does once he wins even comes close to being an issue to me? Once I am back to being fat and happy then I can worry about Utopia. Right now Trump and the direction he has put the country in needs to be reversed.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted (edited)

If simply beating Trump is all that someone actually cared about about they wouldn't be paying attention to the primary and they wouldn't be posting here, 8 months before the general election. They would just wait until the primary is over and back whoever gets the nomination in July.

I'm not saying that wanting Trump out is an invalid rationale, I'm just saying it's not the only rationale people actually have.

11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

wait, i thought the postponement got denied by the courts.  i think this lawsuit is about having a primary at all, right?

not sure who polling usa is, but this seems a little misleading.

It's a reporter showing a document from the Ohio Democratic Party.

Who is the conspiracy theorist, after all? ;)

Edited by bad_teammate
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's a reporter showing a document from the Ohio Democratic Party.

uh, did you read the document? 

i don't see where the democratic party is fighting the decision to postpone until june.  i also didn't read the whole complaint (the link isn't a link on that) so who knows.  just seems like they're fighting to have a primary and be able to vote.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If simply beating Trump is all that someone actually cared about about they wouldn't be paying attention to the primary and they wouldn't be posting here, 8 months before the general election.

except dan has said he's exactly that person.  so have many others who regularly post here.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted

ok, so i went and read a couple of articles.  governor recommended postponing, and judge said no.  now there is no primary set, so only vote-by-mail ballots are being counted, since the state health dept closed the polling places.  ohio democrats want there to be a primary, and rightfully so.

sometimes people on twitter get excited and confused.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/ohio-governor-calls-state-postpone-tuesday-s-primary-elections-n1160816

Ohio's Tuesday primary was called off at the last minute on Monday night due to a health emergency posed by the coronavirus.

The election was thrust into chaos on Monday after Gov. Mike DeWine said the state would not open polls because of the coronavirus outbreak. His comments come after a judge declined to postpone the contest until June.

"During this time when we face an unprecedented public health crisis, to conduct an election tomorrow would force poll workers and voters to place themselves at an unacceptable health risk of contracting coronavirus," DeWine said in a statement posted to Twitter.

Ohio judge denies request to delay primary

DeWine said that state Health Department Director Amy Acton would "order the polls closed as a health emergency."

Acton did just that late Monday night.

Primary contests in Illinois, Arizona and Florida were going ahead Tuesday as scheduled.

DeWine and Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose filed a joint lawsuit Monday afternoon in order to get the election postponed. But Judge Richard Frye declined their request later Monday, saying that to postpone the vote would set a "terrible precedent," the Associated Press reported.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

And people are always perfectly candid and aware of all their internal motivations?

dan - i just want trump to lose!

bt - nobody online 8 months early just wants trump to lose.

hg - dan does.

bt - dan's lying, even if he doesn't know it.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted

Lying? Don't try to make things ugly, henry.

Would you say that people are always perfectly candid and aware of all their internal motivations?

Do you think people here take me, for instance, 100% at face value? Or is there a great deal of distrust that I don't actually mean what I say?

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Lying? Don't try to make things ugly, henry.

Would you say that people are always perfectly candid and aware of all their internal motivations?

Do you think people here take me, for instance, 100% at face value? Or is there a great deal of distrust that I don't actually mean what I say?

so it seems like a lot of people around here have the general attitude that "hey, biden isn't the ideal candidate, but he'll probably beat trump, and that's good enough for me."

but then you come along and say that people have different internal motivations, and imply that they may not be posting exactly what they're thinking or feeling.

so are you saying that people actually think more of biden, but they're saying beating trump is enough?  do you want them to say more positive things about biden so you would have some sparring partners that actually gave a shit on the other side of the ring?  this is what it seems like is happening.  not a bad thing.

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Jatrain

Jatrain 288

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Posted

So I’m somewhat undecided and will be going to vote here in an hour or so, and basically have three issues that are giving me hesitation about Bernie. I’d love for @bad_teammate to give them a shot and win my vote (if he so desires). 
 

1.). I tend to sympathize with Bernie’s proposals: M4A, education, student loans etc. But they seem very pie in the sky to me (especially without a huge D margin in the Senate). I don’t even really care about how he’s going to pay for them. But I haven’t seen him explain how he can actually work within the Democratic Party let alone navigate obstructionist Republican to get something passed?  Would he be willing to forgo his ideological wants in favor of actually achievable improvements?  
 

2.) Beating Trump is my #1.  Bernie seems to me much easier for Repub to trot out the old socialist/communist boogie man to drive turnout (in different but similar ways that they did with Hillary).  Biden seems more difficult because really anything they try with him boomerangs back on Trump in spades (he’s old, nepotism, croonyism, etc). 
 

3.). Bernie bro’s suck and honestly just turn me off. Some of your posting in this thread is an example of this.  I’m afraid with Bernie we will end up with a left wing version of purity testing like we saw with the Repubs (and which had led the party to be the disaster it is today). I don’t want to see a Bernie Bro version of Grover Nordquist with power.  
 

Any help?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13204

Posted
Posted

You're dodging the questions, henry.

If someone ONLY cares about beating Trump, they aren't here right now arguing and fighting.

1 minute ago, Jatrain said:

So I’m somewhat undecided and will be going to vote here in an hour or so, and basically have three issues that are giving me hesitation about Bernie. I’d love for @bad_teammate to give them a shot and win my vote (if he so desires). 

1.). I tend to sympathize with Bernie’s proposals: M4A, education, student loans etc. But they seem very pie in the sky to me (especially without a huge D margin in the Senate). I don’t even really care about how he’s going to pay for them. But I haven’t seen him explain how he can actually work within the Democratic Party let alone navigate obstructionist Republican to get something passed?  Would he be willing to forgo his ideological wants in favor of actually achievable improvements?  

2.) Beating Trump is my #1.  Bernie seems to me much easier for Repub to trot out the old socialist/communist boogie man to drive turnout (in different but similar ways that they did with Hillary).  Biden seems more difficult because really anything they try with him boomerangs back on Trump in spades (he’s old, nepotism, croonyism, etc). 

3.). Bernie bro’s suck and honestly just turn me off. Some of your posting in this thread is an example of this.  I’m afraid with Bernie we will end up with a left wing version of purity testing like we saw with the Repubs (and which had led the party to be the disaster it is today). I don’t want to see a Bernie Bro version of Grover Nordquist with power.  

Any help?

1) Bernie has a decades-long history of working to pass incremental positive change. He was a champion of Obamacare even though he wanted more. He defended it on TV in a debate against Ted Cruz. As for passage, there is nothing getting done at all for Democrats without massive Dem wins. Joe says "I GET THINGS DONE" but it's a lie, he doesn't get things done. He got ZERO Republican votes for Obamacare despite his (supposedly) best efforts. The idea of working across the aisle on moderate legislation is a sales pitch with no merit.

Look how far left the Democratic platform has moved singularly because of him. He's more of a policy leader than Biden has ever been and he will be a more influential policy leader even if Biden wins the election versus Trump. Bernie's ideological power is strong win or lose. Biden going away wouldn't leave a ripple policy-wise.

2) Biden is corrupt (very mild compared to Trump) and a liar (less mild compared to Trump). He's got insanely huge electoral weaknesses that are currently being shouted down but were uniformly accepted here until 3 weeks ago. Bernie is very popular and liked. He's polled above Trump for 4+ years now in head-to-heads. Electability is not something we actually understand even though we feel super confident that we do. Bernie would beat Trump. He would've won in 2016 in less favorable circumstances than he has now.

3) I don't understand what the practical concern here is. If you like Bernie's proposals, why would you be against people fighting for them? As for not liking me... ok.

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Not sure why BT is still fucking this chicken given everything that’s taken place this last week. But I guess he’s persistent. Soldier on.

Same reasons you guys keep talking to/about me?

🤔

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

You're dodging the questions, henry.

yes, you're right.  i'm the evasive one.  i'll rectify that:

i have no idea what dan's political beliefs are or if he has any.

so sorry about that.  i'll try to stay on task and stop moving the goalposts and shifting the conversation when things aren't going my way.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15531

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, G650 said:

Does it even matter anymore

Not really.

This thing is over.  Biden winning 3-1 in Florida was expected.  But it's still pretty fucking shocking.  I mean, someone who loses 3-1 in the 3rd largest state in the Union isn't competitive.  I mean, I guess s/he might be if s/he won similarly sized states by an equal margin.  But that isn't happening here.

If Bernie doesn't drop out tonight or tomorrow, he looks like nothing more than a spoiler.

As for his dead-enders (e.g., b_t), it may be best that they loudly proclaim that they're not voting for Biden.  It makes him look more moderate to the general-election electorate.  I suspect that for every b_t out there, Biden gets two voters from their loud dissension about how Biden just isn't left enough.  

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