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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15669

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Imagine living in a nation that spends more than essentially the rest of the world combined on the military and is the largest exporter of weapons and thinking, "Man, those other places are so warlike and unstable!"

 

So your point is that the MIddle East is unstable; but we're a primary cause of the instability?

Ok.

Maybe I'll agree with you; probably I won't.  I just have to take a few minutes to catch my breath after watching those goalposts shift by me at such high speed.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

So your point is that the MIddle East is unstable; but we're a primary cause of the instability?

How did you get that conclusion out of what I said?

There is a lot of instability in the ME right now for many reasons (we are a huge part of it, yes), but to say it is in their "nature" to be an unstable region is what I clearly took issue with and you've been dancing around this whole time. It is not in the "nature" of the ME to be unstable.

It's like you read Flashman thinking, "Man, this guy is cool and smart."

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)

I wish a candidate had better vision on foreign policy other than pro or anti military intervention.

We’ve been long overdue for a paradigm shift on our approach to foreign affairs.  We should move away from using our military and the threat of force as the primary method of expanding US influence and ideas around the world.  That doesn’t mean we should retreat and become isolationist.  It means we should invest more in building things around the world instead of weapons to destroy them.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15669

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26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wish a candidate had better vision on foreign policy other than pro or anti military intervention.

We’ve been long overdue for a paradigm shift on our approach to foreign affairs.  We should move away from using our military and the threat of force as the primary method of expanding US influence and ideas around the world.  That doesn’t mean we should retreat and become isolationist.  It means we should invest more in building things around the world instead of weapons to destroy them.

I agree with that.  Diplomacy is a weapon that can be used to advance your interests and frustrate those of your enemy.  In many cases, it's more effective at doing so than the military.  And yet for some reason we think the Pentagon is full of the manly-men and the State Department is full of pussies.

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F250

F250 29178

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Posted
3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Soooooo, Beto sure is cool, yeah?

The foreign policy side topic has been interesting as it highlights the differences between leftists and the center left that makes up the bulk of the Democratic party. If the tent is going to be big enough to woo the Bernie types then their voices should be heard. If Green Party votes and Bernie write-ins piss you off then maybe take the time to listen to their criticism of traditional liberal interventionism and neoliberalism.

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23700

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1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

You have very serious difficulty in (1) expressing yourself through the written word, and (2) understanding what others have written.  I'm done with this nonsense.

He doesn't have difficulty in those things. His MO is misrepresenting others with rhetorical written precision while he actually understands that he is mischaracterizing the positions of others.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Probably a couple of surly folks this morning at the convention center this morning with me listening to Susan Rice.  Other than her dropping hints about how the Exec branch is a great place to invent and implement policy, i was blown away and wished she was in the mix for the nomination.  

I’m backing Castro for now unless Weld jumps in either as a libertarian or to primary Trump.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13481

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12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He doesn't have difficulty in those things. His MO is misrepresenting others with rhetorical written precision while he actually understands that he is mischaracterizing the positions of others.  

Well the jerk store called, and they're all out of you!

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Right now according to basically every poll conducted, Biden has the best chance of beating Trump, with Bernie second, Kamala third and Warren fourth. Beto is a wild card because he hasn’t declared and is more unknown. He’s basically polling similar to Kamala and Warren though.

Take that for what you will. 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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It’s not that I don’t appreciate the discussion. I’m learning a lot from it. I know it’s one area I’m woefully under informed on because A - it isn’t a “sexy” issue so it doesn’t get much attention and B - I’ll admit to being more motivated by domestic issues as a voter and I need to do better.

But I think it probably warrants a separate thread. Actually, it would be nice to have multiple threads for in-depth discussion on the big policy drivers for the Democratic primaries - Medicare For All, Green New Deal, Criminal Justice Reform, Tax Policy, Drug Decriminalization etc. - and leave this one for the announcements, polls, and horse race stuff.

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F250

F250 29178

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Bernie supporters flocked to Trump.

(I don’t actually think this or care, just trying to get the thread back on track)

Technically it's still part of the Tulsi conversation so not really off track.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted
21 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

When you read the report in context, it is clear that it is not talking about the United States when it reports on who wants a Salafist principality.  It's trying to be vague, in case it is ever leaked by Wikileaks, but the context is clear that it's talking about the Gulf States.

Go back and read it again through that lens.  Because it's very clear what it's saying.

And anyway--there's a link to it above.  I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about what it does and doesn't say.  The report speaks for itself.

This is risible.  Here is some additional context:

"The reason Russia came in is because ISIL was getting stronger. Daesh was threatening the possibility of going to Damascus and so forth...and we know this was growing, we were watching.  We saw that Daesh was growing in strength and we thought Assad was threatened.  We thought, however, we could probably manage that you know Assad then might negotiate, instead of negotiating you got Assad, you now got Putin to support him."

It was also widely known at the time that ISIS was obtaining weapons from the US via the FSA (ISIS was openly bragging about it), so not only were we "watching," we were actively supporting them as a tool against Assad.

Quote

As much as 90 percent of ISIS’s arms and ammunition were found to have originated in Russia, China and Eastern European states. The jihadis were able to obtain much of this arsenal as a result of former President Barack Obama’s support for rebels in Syria, U.K.-based Conflict Armament Research reported after analyzing 40,000 items recovered by its investigators along ISIS front lines between July 2014 and November 2017. By purchasing “large numbers” of European arms and ammunition and then diverting them to nonstate actors in Syria without notifying the sellers, the U.S. reportedly “violated the terms of sale and export agreed between weapon exporters...and recipients."

https://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Beto porn coming to HBO this spring.
 

He is so goddamn brave.  I look at Harris and Castro and then think about what Rep. O’rourke Had to overcome and I just bow to his tenacity.  

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bolverk

bolverk 30244

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29 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

If I could pick someone right now it would be Buttigieg and it'd be easy.  Beto can do skateboard tricks in the background.

I like the guy a whole lot too. From a cynical (that's how the world works, kid) perspective, I'd put him the veep slot to season the kid some to offset a more moderate, experience lead candidate on the ticket just to ensure that the olds, whites, and blue collars in the Midwest will turn against Trump in 2020. You can't win the war if you lose that battle.

But, if I'm thinking pure ideology and potential, he's definitely been the most impressive thus far. Pete's smart as a whip and is a really great communicator who can clearly and concisely convey his message. 

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bolverk

bolverk 30244

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I don't disagree with that statement by Booker, regardless of how I feel about him. It IS fiscally more prudent to invest "on the front end" to avoid later fiscal and social costs and, if it can be communicated in a smart and articulate manner, I can see some of my more conservative friends going along with it. 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 21076

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yeah i should adjust my statement - if I could pick someone to be president, it would be Buttigieg.  Youth is a fair criticism and I'd like to get a better look under the hood but he handles that pretty well.  If I were to pick who to run against Trump in 2020, he's too young and too gay and not enough current old people are dead yet.  Maybe.

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bolverk

bolverk 30244

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Posted
1 minute ago, Celery Man said:

yeah i should adjust my statement - if I could pick someone to be president, it would be Buttigieg.  Youth is a fair criticism and I'd like to get a better look under the hood but he handles that pretty well.  If I were to pick who to run against Trump in 2020, he's too young and too gay and not enough current old people are dead yet.  Maybe.

In my profession, I've heard the expression "all we need is a few good funerals" more than once.

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bolverk

bolverk 30244

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Posted
1 minute ago, Celery Man said:

i see you are on the kentucky state pension review board

Lulz. No, I work in the field of community and economic development strategic planning, trying to help cities/towns take the necessary steps to be competitive, successful and/or survive.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23700

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8 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

yeah i should adjust my statement - if I could pick someone to be president, it would be Buttigieg.  Youth is a fair criticism and I'd like to get a better look under the hood but he handles that pretty well. 

"Buttigieg Uncut" would not be a terrible campaign slogan. 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21599

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7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

yeah i should adjust my statement - if I could pick someone to be president, it would be Buttigieg.  Youth is a fair criticism and I'd like to get a better look under the hood but he handles that pretty well.  If I were to pick who to run against Trump in 2020, he's too young and too gay and not enough current old people are dead yet.  Maybe.

I think there are some initial issues on the surface with Buttigieg that will actually end up being huge strengths. He's young, but doesn't talk down to the Boomers. I've found him to be the most mature and articulate candidate so far, and I think he can get the older vote.  Needing a "fresh start" is a plan most voters can get behind, and he best represents that idea. I think being from the midwest and serving in Afghanistan will comfort the olds as well.

I really believe being gay won't be a big deal with the majority of voters once they get to know him. He's proudly and happily married with 2 dogs. What's Trump gonna do, tweet gay jokes? About a guy who actually served in the military? If anything, Trump would look emasculated in a debate vs. Buttigieg. The intellectual gap between the two is enormous. Pete is so well spoken that Trump's psychotic ramblings would be that much more obvious and concerning. 

He'll need to connect with POC and women. Progressives should love him. 

His biggest obstacle is exposure. If he gets equal media time by the debates (and there are no scandalous issues in his past), he can win. I think his thoughtfulness, authenticity, and conviction will win over the doubters.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted

Buttigieg hasn’t had an opportunity to handle a public mistake or come under intense scrutiny.  It’s an advantage now because he appears flawless but people make mistakes, how he handles those situations is what I want to see.  No matter who the president is, they will make mistakes.

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Skyline

Skyline 325

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Posted
3 hours ago, Message Board User said:

She cray cray.

Gotta admit - the Dem opposition teams of each of the candidates are already in midseason form.

Not really. The Klobuchar stuff was easily known long before. So as soon as she announced, people had it ready to go. 

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