2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, sublime said:

Both Obama and Hillary were as far left once as AOC is now. They share every value Bernie does except the obvious political losers you just don't say aloud (and expect to win).

Hillary was a literal Goldwater girl (look it up, you're too ignorant to know what that means) while Bernie was being arrested by Chicago PD after chaining himself to black protesters in the fight against racial segregation. You're an idiot, stop talking.

[Eggo 3974]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Liberals don't hate the left.

Centrists hate the left more than they hate the right.  They have no problem holding their noses and voting for Republicans.  But when it comes to Democrats, they better be PERFECT.

Actually, this is bullshit. Centrists hate the left's inability to see that there are votes on the right and you may just need to compromise your message a little bit to win an election unless you want to spew the same shallow poison that Trump does. 

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

These poor factory workers do nothing but spend time on twitter mulling over every single thing a candidate says?

 

Kamala Harris is asked something: "Yeah that sounds like a good idea if we implement it this reasonable way."
Twitter: Kamala Harris supports reparations!!
Michigan Auto Worker: THAT'S IT, TIME TO VOTE FOR TRUMP AGAIN!

------------- 8 months later Kamala is in Michigan at an auto-factory ------------------

Kamala: We need to protect unions and hold employers to a higher standard of paying a living wage!

Workers: NO NO NO, I did nothing but think about a tweet I saw 8 months ago because I do nothing but spend time on the internet all day every day. You Ma'am have lost my vote!!

Is this how it plays out in your mind?

They don't own TVs?

[Bama Chick 28596]

Liberals don't hate the left.
Centrists hate the left more than they hate the right.  They have no problem holding their noses and voting for Republicans.  But when it comes to Democrats, they better be PERFECT.

Yupppppppp.

Trump = much too long list of every horrible thing he has said and done

Democrat candidates = we should look into investing in marginalized communities

RW Twitter and FOX News = REpaRAtiOnS

Democrat candidates = Well, it’s a bit more complicated than that

Swing centrist who’s totally not really a Republican who agrees with Trump’s policies but just doesn’t like that he has bad manners = Welp, that candidate once alluded to something that could be labeled reparations so I guess I have to “reluctantly” vote for Trump. AGAIN.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Holy shit did you seriously not just see a Dem enter the field, raise $6M and get 1 million volunteers in 24 hours? Turn on your god damned monitor, son.

Obviously Bernie is your guy and you'll never agree with me here, but Bernie, while charming and somewhat charismatic, has nowhere near the star power of Obama or Clinton. He has a really energized group of followers who hang on his every word, which is far different than someone with the chops to get 50+ percent of the country to vote for him.

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, Eggo said:

... unless you want to spew the same shallow poison that Trump does. 

Liberals don't hate the left, they just think left positions are "shallow poison". lol 

[Dick Tremayne 103]

4 minutes ago, sublime said:

Here is what I guess you forget. Both Obama and Hillary were as far left once as AOC is now. They share every value Bernie does except the obvious political losers you just don't say aloud (and expect to win).

 

Is this a joke? Holy shit! The political left understander has logged on!

[Fozzz 152]

Star Power

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Yupppppppp.

Trump = much too long list of every horrible thing he has said and done

Democrat candidates = we should look into investing in marginalized communities

RW Twitter and FOX News = REpaRAtiOnS

Democrat candidates = Well, it’s a bit more complicated than that

Swing centrist who’s totally not really a Republican who agrees with Trump’s policies but just doesn’t like that he has bad manners = Welp, that candidate once alluded to something that could be labeled reparations so I guess I have to “reluctantly” vote for Trump. AGAIN.

 

 

Those people are not centrists. Those people are "independents" who are reliable R voters in that same sense that I'm an "independent" who hasn't voted for a R since Bush's first term and won't for the foreseeable future.

There are true centrists out there. Villianizing them and trying to turn the word "centrist" into a negative is yet another line item on a long list of terrible, stupid strategy by the left. You should stop.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Obviously Bernie is your guy and you'll never agree with me here, but Bernie, while charming and somewhat charismatic, has nowhere near the star power of Obama or Clinton. He has a really energized group of followers who hang on his every word, which is far different than someone with the chops to get 50+ percent of the country to vote for him.

You think charisma is a necessity because you don't actually have beliefs. You're a child waiting for a commercial to be loud and bright enough to grab your attention.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You think charisma is a necessity because you don't actually have beliefs. You're a child waiting for a commercial to be loud and bright enough to grab your attention.

There it is!

"Anyone who isn't far left or far right has no beliefs and is a child!"

Big tent.

 

And I think charisma is necessary because the most charismatic candidate has won the general in every election since the majority of households had televisions.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[Fozzz 152]

They have beliefs, just highly unpopular ones.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

They have beliefs, just highly unpopular ones.

Or they have beliefs that hit both sides of the political spectrum depending on the issue, because they're humans who have nuanced thoughts and beliefs and are able to comprehend that not everything in the world is black/white or red/blue. Most children have a need to see the world in right/wrong, black/white, etc. and are unable to understand complexities and nuance.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[GSU&UT 1798]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

You joke, but even putting aside the hyperbole, actually yes - people are more and more influenced by things exactly like that.  It’s why Obama in his campaigns and then Trump/Cruz with their Cambridge Analytica crap went heavy on internet and social media micro targeting of voters.  Not to mention that media, the other campaigns, etc.  will all harp on that stuff nonstop so it’s imposdible to avoid (it won’t just be a buried tweet from long ago).  And people dig in on their opinions of candidates earlier now, too.

The standard fluff line at a rally is what people hear from everyone else who is running and don’t care about.

How long until the primaries, let alone the real campaigning for the 2020 election? Unless Warren and Harris make a central tenet of their platform (they won't) no one is going to give a shit as long as these candidates show up and pay attention to their concerns this time around (which didn't happen in 2016).

[Fozzz 152]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Or they have beliefs that hit both sides of the political spectrum depending on the issue, because they're humans who have nuanced thoughts and beliefs and are able to comprehend that not everything in the world is black/white or red/blue, in the way that most children do. 

I have a suspicion that your beliefs would fit comfortably in the bottom-right corner of this chart.

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

3 minutes ago, Eggo said:

Actually, this is bullshit. Centrists hate the left's inability to see that there are votes on the right and you may just need to compromise your message a little bit to win an election unless you want to spew the same shallow poison that Trump does. 

Compromising the message resulted in Donald Trump winning the election. Democrats catering to voters on the right - while the GOP has gone completely scorched earth with lies, bad actors, misinformation, bigotry - is why we're here. 

Luckily most of the D candidates running understand this now. 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Or they have beliefs that hit both sides of the political spectrum depending on the issue, because they're humans who have nuanced thoughts and beliefs and are able to comprehend that not everything in the world is black/white or red/blue.

So... like basically every other voter in the nation? Cool job.

What beliefs do you have that you feel are worth fighting for? What are you actually doing to fight for them? Which "side" is most likely to actually support you?

[bad_teammate 13132]

"I really hope we can get a Dem candidate who will generate enthusiasm and interest so we can beat Trump."

*a candidate raises $6M (4x the record) in campaign donations from 220k small donors and signs up more than 1 million volunteers in 24 hours*

"Uh... I said... I REALLY HOPE WE CAN..."

It's almost... it's almost like they don't actually care about any of it. Weird. Weird Weird Weird.

You don't have to become a Bernie Bro, but to actively fight against that momentum is insanity if you actually care about beating Trump.

[Js1 85104]

BradinATX, Longhornmatt, Eggo and Sublime the centrist brigade here to tell you why every candidate running on the Democrat side is bad because they don't communicate centrist ideas to the Democratic primary electorate that isn't at all centrist anymore.

Just a reminder - none of these people are the nominee yet.  None of them will be the nominee until summer 2020 at the earliest.  They are all chasing votes in the primary electorate that is going to vote for them to be the nominee, which is to the left of all these highly-revered centrist voters in the Midwest.  Trump going 100% balls to the wall far right didn't alienate these mythical centrist voters in 2016.

And thankfully, Fozz the Libertarian is also here to tell you to vote for Gabbard in the primary or the badass Libertarian candidate in 2020! 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

Just now, sublime said:

 

Obama compromised plenty, and won. Twice.

 

Aaaand resulted in Trump as POTUS.  Also while Obama compromised as president, the Democrats got their asses kicked by Republicans in Congressional elections and state/local offices. 

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I have a suspicion that your beliefs would fit comfortably in the bottom-right corner of this chart.

Nope

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[Eggo 3974]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Compromising the message resulted in Donald Trump winning the election. Democrats catering to voters on the right - while the GOP has gone completely scorched earth with lies, bad actors, misinformation, bigotry - is why we're here. 

Luckily most of the D candidates running understand this now. 

 

Basket of deplorables doesn't feel like catering. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, sublime said:

And hey buddy. I've gone to jail fighting for the Democratic party! Have you?

I have not, but hell yeah for you! I'd genuinely like to hear the story.

 

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

Hillary was a centrist. In the end, she catered to Republican "values" so much that she had no clear, real message. No conviction. The majority of Democrats weren't excited to vote for her. 

 

[Eggo 3974]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"I really hope we can get a Dem candidate who will generate enthusiasm and interest so we can beat Trump."

*a candidate raises $6M (4x the record) in campaign donations from 220k small donors and signs up more than 1 million volunteers in 24 hours*

"Uh... I said... I REALLY HOPE WE CAN..."

It's almost... it's almost like they don't actually care about any of it. Weird. Weird Weird Weird.

You don't have to become a Bernie Bro, but to actively fight against that momentum is insanity if you actually care about beating Trump.

I didn't realize the primary was already decided based on a week of fundraising and we had to stop having critical discussions.

[Eggo 3974]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

Plot twist:  he went to jail fighting for the Democrat Party in Alabama in 1955.

I've run out of rep to give. ☹️

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, Eggo said:

I didn't realize the primary was already decided based on a week of fundraising and we had to stop having critical discussions.

"OH NO FOX NEWS" is not a critical discussion, that's asinine stupidity.

A critical policy discussion? Let's do it.

A critical discussion of actual electoral politics based on some meaningful data? Let's do it.

(Also, it's like you ignored the first part of the sentence you bolded b/c it directly addresses your fake concern and you're being dishonest.)

Edited February 22, 2019 by bad_teammate

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"I really hope we can get a Dem candidate who will generate enthusiasm and interest so we can beat Trump."

*a candidate raises $6M (4x the record) in campaign donations from 220k small donors and signs up more than 1 million volunteers in 24 hours*

"Uh... I said... I REALLY HOPE WE CAN..."

It's almost... it's almost like they don't actually care about any of it. Weird. Weird Weird Weird.

You don't have to become a Bernie Bro, but to actively fight against that momentum is insanity if you actually care about beating Trump.

How is anyone fighting the momentum? I'm not going to show up to the polling locations for the primaries and stop people from voting for Bernie.

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

BradinATX, Longhornmatt, Eggo and Sublime the centrist brigade here to tell you why every candidate running on the Democrat side is bad because they don't communicate centrist ideas to the Democratic primary electorate that isn't at all centrist anymore.

Just a reminder - none of these people are the nominee yet.  None of them will be the nominee until summer 2020 at the earliest.  They are all chasing votes in the primary electorate that is going to vote for them to be the nominee, which is to the left of all these highly-revered centrist voters in the Midwest.  Trump going 100% balls to the wall far right didn't alienate these mythical centrist voters in 2016.

And thankfully, Fozz the Libertarian is also here to tell you to vote for Gabbard in the primary or the badass Libertarian candidate in 2020! 

 

Wow, thanks for explaining how primaries work. Fascinating stuff. 

And Trump didn't go far right in 2016. At least not in every area. Protectionism was not a right-wing ethos in 2016, but it's one of the reasons he won the rust belt. Don't be disingenuous. 

However, Hillary trying to ride the coastal far-left technocrat wave instead of traditional union/every-man democrat certainly did hurt her in that area.

[GSU&UT 1798]

4 minutes ago, Eggo said:

I didn't realize the primary was already decided based on a week of fundraising and we had to stop having critical discussions.

We can have discussions, but these aren't in good faith when y'all are posting twitter links believing that GND, reparations are the main things these candidates are talking about at every rally regardless of location.

I didn't hear her whole speech, but I actually saw Elizabeth Warren talk here near where I live in the metro Atlanta area. Her message was very much catered to turning out vote in an increasingly diverse metro (the county I live in has completely flipped from solid Red to solid Blue in about six years) and how Georgia and the sun belt can help decide the election in 2020. She did not once bring up the Green New deal (she most likely mentioned climate change at some point, but I couldn't stay the entire time) nor did she bring up reparations (I'd be shocked if she mentioned that word here).

Edited February 22, 2019 by GSU&UT

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

Can the centrists on here explain what problems they have with the major ideas/policies that Democrats are pitching right now? Let's get into specifics. 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

Hillary had 25 years of being Rush Limbaugh’s Public Enemy Number 1 to deal with.  It really probably never even mattered how she campaigned.  She obliterated Trump in the debate and nobody cared.  She was ultra damaged goods before the campaign even started.

It would be like the Republicans trying to nominate W again and wondering why people didn’t respond to his message.  Was he too centrist?  Too right wing?  Surely it couldn’t be because 50+% of the country already hated him and had dug in on that decades ago, right? 

And this. Hillary was a terrible, doomed candidate from the beginning. Some of it of her own doing, and some of it from the 25 years of Fox News bile. 

You can't really prescribe a philosophy to Hillary because she didn't really have one, unless you count going from moderate to liberal to moderate and ultimately adopting the majority of Bernie's platform in the general. 

But I don't think it's a surprise that more moderate Democrats cleaned up in the midterms whereas the more far-left-leaning candidates did not.

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

centrists ... ideas/policies

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

We can have discussions, but these aren't in good faith when y'all are posting twitter links believing that GND, reparations are the main things these candidates are talking about at every rally regardless of location

The GND and reparations are what we're talking about. It's what the news and TV talking heads are talking about.

What percentage of people would you say are exposed to mainstream news and Twitter vs. those that are exposed to localized campaign rallies?

[Eggo 3974]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Can the centrists on here explain what problems they have with the major ideas/policies that Democrats are pitching right now? Let's get into specifics here. 

I had an economics professor in college that was way Austrian school. He really hammered home the idea that the government does not truly have the ability to generate jobs. The thought was that the government (in its Constitution-based role) would build things like infrastructure and then those jobs would disappear. Or the taxpayers would balk at the projects and defund them. Or that it would overall be interpreted as a zero-sum game (pay taxes that eventually gets paid back to you to pay taxes) and there wouldn't be wealth generated. As a result, I really hesitate anytime a government policy promises job creation, and I think most of the Midwest feels similarly.

Note: I grew up in rural Illinois and have never heard family or friends once bank on a government job. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, Eggo said:

I had an economics professor in college that was way Austrian school. He really hammered home the idea that the government does not truly have the ability to generate jobs. The thought was that the government (in its Constitution-based role) would build things like infrastructure and then those jobs would disappear. Or the taxpayers would balk at the projects and defund them. Or that it would overall be interpreted as a zero-sum game (pay taxes that eventually gets paid back to you to pay taxes) and there wouldn't be wealth generated. As a result, I really hesitate anytime a government policy promises job creation, and I think most of the Midwest feels similarly.

Note: I grew up in rural Illinois and have never heard family or friends once bank on a government job. 

Better tell all those enlisted troops that their jobs don't really exist then.

[BradInATX 9208]

22 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Can the centrists on here explain what problems they have with the major ideas/policies that Democrats are pitching right now? Let's get into specifics. 

 

I can only speak for myself but in the majority of cases my issues with the ideas being pitched is not that I'm against them on principle, but that they are general election losers and are exposing us to the risk of four more years of Trump.

I'm not really interested in a policy debate, but I appreciate the fair question and attempt at some civil discussion, so I'll give it a shot. I realize that some of these are things that have only been pitched by one or two candidates, and are not necessarily pillars of the Democratic platform.

- Not in favor of reparations (though I support Affirmative Action and other similar measures). I realize this is an extremely unimportant issue and I don't even really care that much about it, but it's topical
- Not in favor of free college for everyone 
- I'm fully supportive of more extensive background checks and closing certain gun law loopholes, but not in favor of banning any specific sort of weapon that is currently legal. Also not in favor of magazine restrictions, etc. 
- I think charter schools are appropriate and probably a better option in some places than public schools are. New Orleans would be one example where the charter system has done a much better job of educating kids than the public school system
- Undecided on M4A. Support the ACA in the way it was originally intended to work before Obama bent the knee to the Republicans and allowed "compromise" to kneecap the entire premise. I do have reservations about putting the entire system in the hands of the government.
- Generally pro-choice but think there need to be limitations to it
- I'm iffy on minimum wage increases. Certainly support lower-end workers making more money, but I tend to think on a national level that it's just going to increase inflation/COL which makes it a zero-sum for said lower-end workers and squeezes the middle class even further. But I'm generally open to seeing the results from localized efforts on this one. Specifically I'd like to see it done in a "real" city and not a technology-utopia like Seattle or California where money grows on trees and you can get a six figure job just by saying the word "STEM" in an interview.
 

Probably could go on but I have work to do.

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Oh, so you're a republican. That explains it. Thanks Brad. 

[Js1 85104]

That "candidate" Brad likes probably wouldn't even make the 1st debate.  In fact, might as well support Howard Schultz.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Oh, so you're a republican. That explains it. Thanks Brad. 

Yep. I support:

- The ACA
- Reasonable gun control
- Affirmative Action
- Pro-choice
- More stringent regulation of financial instituations and business in general
- Clean energy and subsidies 
- Criminal justice reform
- Campaign finance reform and elimination of Citizens United
- LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, and every variation thereof
- Legalization of pot
- The majority of social programs
- Religious freedom and separation of the state and Christianity
 

But I'm against free college and magazine restrictions, so  I'm definitely a Republican.

This is why you keep losing. Big tent, huh?

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Ah fuck, Js1 is right. He's 100% a coffee guy guy. 

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Yep. I support:

- The ACA
- Reasonable gun control
- Affirmative Action
- Pro-choice
- More stringent regulation of financial instituations and business in general
- Clean energy and subsidies 
- Criminal justice reform
- Campaign finance reform and elimination of Citizens United
- LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, and every variation thereof
- Legalization of pot
- The majority of social programs
- Religious freedom and separation of the state and Christianity
 

But I'm against free college and magazine restrictions, so  I'm definitely a Republican.

This is why you keep losing. Big tent, huh?

So what are D candidates saying that could keep them from getting your vote?

 

[Eggo 3974]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

So what are D candidates saying that could keep them from getting your vote?

 

They're not. Brad is saying that he believes the bigger government policies will scare off the right-leaning centrists. We're all talking about finding a way to get Donald Trump out of office. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

10 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

This is why you keep losing.

This is the centrist brain: "I am the literal center of all things. I represent humanity."

2 minutes ago, Eggo said:

They're not. Brad is saying that he believes the bigger government policies will scare off the right-leaning centrists. We're all talking about finding a way to get Donald Trump out of office. 

How well did it work for this candidate?

 

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

13 minutes ago, Eggo said:

They're not. Brad is saying that he believes the bigger government policies will scare off the right-leaning centrists. We're all talking about finding a way to get Donald Trump out of office. 

We need to look at the bigger picture here. Just getting Donald Trump out of office is not enough. The Republican Party itself is the bigger issue. Playing the "center" in 2020 is a platform of not really believing strongly in anything. We need clear cut ideas that promote American values. 

The center needs to be moved to the left.

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

But they don’t feel alienated by a lying, traitorous, racist orange shitbag?

That says more about those voters than it does about “the leftists”.

As a voter who doesn't like the lying, traitorous, racist, whoreson racist orange shitbag, but also think reparations as an issue is absolutely moronic, both strategically and in reality, what does that say about me?

I have no problem with someone saying something to the effect that we as a country moral owe some kind of debt, repayment or reparations for the vestiges of slavery, but that should be a jumping off point for non-racial social policies (education, healthcare, etc.) in which that debt is repaid through support of all needy persons.

I'm astounded that Republicans have not been even a tad aggressive with trying to sell need based affirmative action as an alternative to affirmative action in education and government contracting.  They could sell it to their own base as well as "centrists" who recoil at any kind of identity politics.  And they could start winning over younger minority voters.  

Dems wouldn't have the guts or motivation to move quicker than the Republicans on this issue, although I wish they would. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21061]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Hillary was a centrist. In the end, she catered to Republican "values" so much that she had no clear, real message. No conviction. The majority of Democrats weren't excited to vote for her. 

 

Almost any other Dem w/ the same platform would've beaten Trump.  Any. Fucking. One.   The problem wasn't her message, it was the messenger.  Like it, hate it, think it's regarded...imo, it's pretty clear. 

[Hank Kingsley 20681]

2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Almost any other Dem w/ the same platform would've beaten Trump.  Any. Fucking. One.   The problem wasn't her message, it was the messenger.  Like it, hate it, think it's regarded...imo, it's pretty clear. 

I'm no fan of Hillary and you have valid points. But it's in the past and the game continues to change. The GOP and Trump administration will go scorched earth on any D candidate and will lie/cheat/do anything to win the 2020 election. IMO the only successful counter to that is a candidate that strongly stands behind their ideas/values, instead of finding ways to get mythical votes from "centrists."  Counter Trump's insincerity with authenticity and conviction. Then if a D wins the presidency, real positive change has a chance. 

 

 

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

We need clear cut ideas that promote American values. 

The center needs to be moved to the left.

 

 

 

Agree and agree but I think the clear-cut ideas that promote American values will address the bigger picture (Republicans and their terribleness) and at the same time win elections are:

- Addressing massive wealth disparity and shrinking opportunity for upward mobility
- Anti corruption
- Reducing the burden for families from things like healthcare, child care, and housing that have dramatically increased over the past 20 years to the point where they're even squeezing the upper tiers of middle class
- Personal freedoms, LGBTQ rights, marijuana legalization, etc.
- Closing tax loopholes for the rich that the lower classes don't have access to, and using the proceeds for the above and/or infrastructure (projects that create jobs)

Look, I'm not saying that things like the GND are things that the party shouldn't support. I'm fully in favor of it. But I'd like to see more focus on the above things that the majority of America supports and that win elections, and less focus on vanity projects that appeal to the further-left folks in the party. Go campaign on the above, take the W, and once you're in go nuts with all of the liberal dream projects. But campaigning on things that California loves but the Obama->Trump voters hate like gun control, reparations, "Green New Deal", etc. is going to put the election in Jeopardy.

You can't have your Green New Deal or reparations if Trump wins again. 

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I'm no fan of Hillary and you have valid points. But it's in the past and the game continues to change. The GOP and Trump administration will go scorched earth on any D candidate and will lie/cheat/do anything to win the 2020 election. IMO the only successful counter to that is a candidate that strongly stands behind their ideas/values, instead of finding ways to get mythical votes from "centrists."  Counter Trump's insincerity with authenticity and conviction. Then if a D wins the presidency, real positive change has a chance. 

 

 

 

 

People are people and perception is everything - those attacks are going to stick to some candidates much more than they will to others. "Binders full of women" deeply cut Romney, but "grab em by the pussy" slid right off of Trump. They flailed and flailed at Obama with Marxist, birth certificate, coming for your guns, etc. and the electorate wasn't having it.

I don't disagree with the notion that standing by your values will resonate much more than Hillary's ever-changing chameleon act. But I'm not confident that any of the current candidates have the star power or charisma (ala Bill or Obama) to go full tilt left while deflecting the GOP barrage of bullshit well enough to win the general. Without a rock star candidate, some pragmatism is in order if you want to win. JMHO, of course, but we all saw 2016.

[BradInATX 9208]

41 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

So what are D candidates saying that could keep them from getting your vote?

 

Nothing. I'll vote for whoever the nominee is. I've been pretty clear about that. I'm not bad teammate or Js1 who's going to go off and vote for Stein if Bernie loses the primary again.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BradInATX