2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Agree and agree but I think the clear-cut ideas that promote American values will address the bigger picture (Republicans and their terribleness) and at the same time win elections are:

- Addressing massive wealth disparity and shrinking opportunity for upward mobility
- Anti corruption
- Reducing the burden for families from things like healthcare, child care, and housing that have dramatically increased over the past 20 years to the point where they're even squeezing the upper tiers of middle class
- Personal freedoms, LGBTQ rights, marijuana legalization, etc.
- Closing tax loopholes for the rich that the lower classes don't have access to, and using the proceeds for the above and/or infrastructure (projects that create jobs)

Look, I'm not saying that things like the GND are things that the party shouldn't support. I'm fully in favor of it. But I'd like to see more focus on the above things that the majority of America supports and that win elections, and less focus on vanity projects that appeal to the further-left folks in the party. Go campaign on the above, take the W, and once you're in go nuts with all of the liberal dream projects. But campaigning on things that California loves but the Obama->Trump voters hate like gun control, reparations, "Green New Deal", etc. is going to put the election in Jeopardy.

You can't have your Green New Deal or reparations if Trump wins again. 

All the things you listed will be a HUGE part of every D’s candidacy.

The Green New Deal is a big, bold idea at this point. I’m convinced it was only introduced so it can be a talking point for Dem candidates, not as specific policy at this point. 

In how many countries is climate change a political issue? The GOP playbook is to treat it as a HOAX. That has to be addressed and countered right fucking now.

[Js1 87177]

27 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

- Addressing massive wealth disparity and shrinking opportunity for upward mobility  
Already being discussed.  Check Warren and Bernie's campaigns.  Also, this fake outrage over "reparations" is to combat the massive racial wealth disparity and shrinking opportunities for minority upward mobility due to housing costs and access, employment discrimination, etc.

- Anti corruption
Literally being discussed all the time in relation to Trump/GOP - see HR1, first act of the new House

- Reducing the burden for families from things like healthcare, child care, and housing that have dramatically increased over the past 20 years to the point where they're even squeezing the upper tiers of middle class
Healthcare was THE topic of the 2018 midterms and won Dems the House.  Warren just issued her childcare initiative which is aimed at, as mentioned in #1, helping working class with upward mobility because they aren't sinking huge costs into childcare or foregoing employment opportunities.  Every single candidate has talked about healthcare, whether its improving the ACA or M4A or a public option.  You act like Democrats are shying away from talking about healthcare.

- Personal freedoms, LGBTQ rights, marijuana legalization, etc.
Booker and Harris are already 100% legalization.  

- Closing tax loopholes for the rich that the lower classes don't have access to, and using the proceeds for the above and/or infrastructure (projects that create jobs)
Hi, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. Even Kamala Harris.  All have addressed this or are addressing this - increasing taxes and closing loopholes and using it for actual job creation.

Okay, cool.

Already all being discussed or implemented by the new House.

Concern troll is concern trolling.

[Dick Tremayne 103]

54 minutes ago, sublime said:

 unless thinking the FBI is cool makes you a RWer.

At best it makes you right of center, at worst it makes you a bootlicker. 

 

I just can't fathom how anyone with even a basic understanding of the history of the FBI could "think the FBI is cool".

[Celery Man 21094]

[Eggo 4026]

Who knows...maybe the candidates will try to out-left each other through the primary and the nominee to scoot back towards the center heading into the general. That's what they always say, right? 

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Yep. I support:

- The ACA
- Reasonable gun control
- Affirmative Action
- Pro-choice
- More stringent regulation of financial instituations and business in general
- Clean energy and subsidies 
- Criminal justice reform
- Campaign finance reform and elimination of Citizens United
- LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, and every variation thereof
- Legalization of pot
- The majority of social programs
- Religious freedom and separation of the state and Christianity
 

 

40 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Agree and agree but I think the clear-cut ideas that promote American values will address the bigger picture (Republicans and their terribleness) and at the same time win elections are:

- Addressing massive wealth disparity and shrinking opportunity for upward mobility
- Anti corruption
- Reducing the burden for families from things like healthcare, child care, and housing that have dramatically increased over the past 20 years to the point where they're even squeezing the upper tiers of middle class
- Personal freedoms, LGBTQ rights, marijuana legalization, etc.
- Closing tax loopholes for the rich that the lower classes don't have access to, and using the proceeds for the above and/or infrastructure (projects that create jobs)
 

Brad, 

After reading these items again, I think we'd get along very well in a political discussion face-to-face.

What you've posted above should be "center" positions IMO. But the GOP and hardcore Republicans would look at you as a hippie liberal and a political enemy.  You believe you are a centrist but the reality of this current political atmosphere is you are not. 

The GOP has moved this country right of center over the last 30-40 years. The list of positions above only come to fruition with a President and party that feel STRONGLY about these issues. We have to stop worrying about capturing ANY voters who disagree with those beliefs if it means toning down the rhetoric. 

Here are our values. We believe deeply in them. We welcome you to join us. I believe there are a lot of Americans that would cross the aisle and vote for a candidate who has conviction and acts in good faith, even if they don't necessarily agree on certain policies. The fact is health care is a WINNING debate for Democrats, so is climate change, and so is gun control. 

I highly recommend you check out Pete Buttigieg, as I think you'd really like him. I'm basically parroting a lot of his thoughts. 

 

 

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Well the movies and TV sometimes make the FBI look cool.

But you’d have to be a really shallow idiot to let fictionalized moving pictures influence how you feel about real institutions that have a documented history of being pretty terrible.

Oh wait.

[babysdaddy 2731]

Just now, Bama Chick said:

Well the movies and TV sometimes make the FBI look cool.

But you’d have to be a really shallow idiot to let fictionalized moving pictures influence how you feel about real institutions that have a documented history of being pretty terrible.

Oh wait.

If you start bagging on Keanu you're going on ignore.  That is totes real life af

[Eggo 4026]

So long as groups like the NRA are allowed to put the kibosh on things like gun violence research and conversations, Democrats won't win traditional GOP voters on gun control. For years, Obama insisted that no one is trying to take your guns. The Republicans came back and said "they're trying to take your guns" and that's the message that stuck. I'm not saying Democrats shouldn't stand firm on this issue, but it's one where I wouldn't plan on winning any friends on the right. 

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

3 minutes ago, Eggo said:

So long as groups like the NRA are allowed to put the kibosh on things like gun violence research and conversations, Democrats won't win traditional GOP voters on gun control. For years, Obama insisted that no one is trying to take your guns. The Republicans came back and said "they're trying to take your guns" and that's the message that stuck. I'm not saying Democrats shouldn't stand firm on this issue, but it's one where I wouldn't plan on winning any friends on the right. 

So should Democrats back off the gun control issue, cross their fingers that they can win 2020 by placating the right, and continue to let the NRA pay off our government while Americans needlessly die?

 

 

[Eggo 4026]

In response to people insisting that centrists are people without convictions, perhaps you can come back and understand that we're simply looking for solutions that will stick for everyone.

Quote

The failure to recognize that what resonates with one side might differ from what resonates with the other side has been detrimental to solving social problems.

Anyone serious about building consensus on gun policy needs to be slower to judge and quicker to listen to those who disagree. I understand why gun-safety advocates might not want to listen to those who are skeptical of gun-safety laws. People are being killed in their places of worship and kids gunned down at school; this kind of crisis can make people feel they don’t have time for dialogue.

However, listening to those who are resistant to gun-control laws is more than just a sign of respect. Understanding what motivates people can help us come up with better solutions that are more likely to stick. Instead of focusing on what motivates us, we need to ask what motivates them. We don’t all need to take the same path to get to the same destination. We can get more people to the destination if we can find a path they’re willing to take.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/14/why-we-cant-agree-gun-control/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c7d8823db11b

[Bama Chick 28596]

If the gun issue is so important to those on the right, why didn’t they care when Trump said “take the guns first, due process later”?

Right. Because it’s another cudgel they use. When Trump literally declares he wants law enforcement to seize guns it’s ignored but they screamed for 8 years about Obama being a gun grabber based on nothing but their fear and rhetoric from republican politicians.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The gun companies made so much more money with democrats in power.  

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

Eggo, that passage you posted is absolute horseshit. All of it. 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

5 minutes ago, Eggo said:

In response to people insisting that centrists are people without convictions, perhaps you can come back and understand that we're simply looking for solutions that will stick for everyone.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/14/why-we-cant-agree-gun-control/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c7d8823db11b

How do you type when your wrists are so limp? 

[Eggo 4026]

1 minute ago, Hank Scorpio said:

How do you type when your wrists are so limp? 

Voice to text

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

8 minutes ago, Eggo said:

In response to people insisting that centrists are people without convictions, perhaps you can come back and understand that we're simply looking for solutions that will stick for everyone.

AKA, no solutions and no action. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

22 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Brad, 

After reading these items again, I think we'd get along very well in a political discussion face-to-face.

What you've posted above should be "center" positions IMO. But the GOP and hardcore Republicans would look at you as a hippie liberal and a political enemy.  You believe you are a centrist but the reality of this current political atmosphere is you are not. 

The GOP has moved this country right of center over the last 30-40 years. The list of positions above only come to fruition with a President and party that feel STRONGLY about these issues. We have to stop worrying about capturing ANY voters who disagree with those beliefs if it means toning down the rhetoric. 

Here are our values. We believe deeply in them. We welcome you to join us. I believe there are a lot of Americans that would cross the aisle and vote for a candidate who has conviction and acts in good faith, even if they don't necessarily agree on certain policies. The fact is health care is a WINNING debate for Democrats, so is climate change, and so is gun control. 

I highly recommend you check out Pete Buttigieg, as I think you'd really like him. I'm basically parroting a lot of his thoughts. 

 

 

 

I like what I've seen of Buttigieg. If he's a valid contender by the time our primary rolls around, I'll give him a serious look.

And I completely agree about the GOP moving right - I think upthread I mentioned that I think the more moderate wing of the Democratic party is really the political center of the country, once strip away all of the wedge issues. It's funny, you said "you believe you are a centrist", where I don't think I've ever actually said that here. I generally consider myself to be a left-leaning independent. It's just that the "you're either Bernie Sanders or a Republican!!" crowd spends so much effort trying to label anyone not extreme left as a "centrist" and then proceeds to stigmatize the word that the "centrist" thing has stuck to anyone on this thread who doesn't pass the Bernie Bro purity test. 

Regarding gun control - it's definitely a nuanced issue. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx. The majority is for "stricter gun control laws" but the majority is also against semi-auto rifle bans. The majority stance mirrors mine pretty well - 92% in favor of better background checks, but not in favor of banning semi-autos. 

But I digress - appreciate the conversation and we'd definitely have a good time over some beer and a discussion. And I'll be voting for whoever it is, even if it's my least favorite D candidate, who will still be light years better than Trump and co.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Eggo, that passage you posted is absolute horseshit. All of it. 

 

The gist of that passage is literally the foundation of every great book ever written on communication, business, and sales. 

Elections are sales processes.

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

No wonder our government has gone to shit. 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No wonder our government has gone to shit. 

 

Not wrong there. But it is what it is.

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

Democrats have reached across the aisle for the last 30-40 years. Republicans have cheated, lied, and fought their way into power at the expense of decency and sincerity.

Look where's it's gotten us. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Not wrong there. But it is what it is.

It is what it is? What the fuck?

So just lie down and take it?

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

It is what it is? What the fuck?

So just lie down and take it?

No, you fight, but you have to understand the rules of the fight you're fighting and you have to understand the way the game is played. The Republicans understand that and play the game much better than the Democrats do. They understand how to control the news cycle and how to brand/market. They understand that coming out talking about reparations is going to dominate the news cycle and push any substantive news (IE Warren's childcare plan) to the back burner.

It's why they win elections they have no business winning and why they control the majority of the country despite being a philosophical minority.

[Eggo 4026]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Democrats have reached across the aisle for the last 30-40 years. Republicans have cheated, lied, and fought their way into power at the expense of decency and sincerity.

Look where's it's gotten us. 

 

I'm genuinely interested if you can provide data stating that Republicans are far more partisan than Democrats. I'm not calling you out, but I am curious if you can definitively prove that Democrats reach across the aisle with higher frequency than the GOP. 

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

Donald Trump is President of the United States. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, Eggo said:

I'm genuinely interested if you can provide data stating that Republicans are far more partisan than Democrats. I'm not calling you out, but I am curious if you can definitively prove that Democrats reach across the aisle with higher frequency than the GOP. 

Which party shuts down the government most? 

[Fozzz 152]

Getting a little racist here Liz.

Quote

Worst of all, Warren parrots the “demographics” talk that would be the death penalty for a liberal politician in the United States. Imagine if a politician talked about how many black people or brown people are being born in her district or in the country as a threat to the country’s character?

"[O]ver time realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths. What the region looks like."

When is this type of speech going to become off limits in the United States? This is the great thing about Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. They are Muslim women of color and they regard such talk as racist, as it is. Also, they are for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS).

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/elizabeth-demographic-palestinian/

[gmr548 16695]

Obviously Bernie is your guy and you'll never agree with me here, but Bernie, while charming and somewhat charismatic, has nowhere near the star power of Obama or Clinton. He has a really energized group of followers who hang on his every word, which is far different than someone with the chops to get 50+ percent of the country to vote for him.

That's the exact person he's running against. 60 plus percent of America also doesn't think Bernie is a dangerous moron of unprecedented nature, and probably a criminal. The bar is really fucking low.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

This is what happens when you try to placate both sides. From 2014. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21768]

46 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

No, you fight, but you have to understand the rules of the fight you're fighting and you have to understand the way the game is played. The Republicans understand that and play the game much better than the Democrats do. They understand how to control the news cycle and how to brand/market. They understand that coming out talking about reparations is going to dominate the news cycle and push any substantive news (IE Warren's childcare plan) to the back burner.

It's why they win elections they have no business winning and why they control the majority of the country despite being a philosophical minority.

Here are the rules of the fight for Republicans. 

1. There are no rules. 

 

The game is rigged. I don't know why you are giving them credit for literally doing anything to win. 

[David Dennison 19529]

53 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Getting a little racist here Liz.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/elizabeth-demographic-palestinian/

Which begs the question, if there were more Muslims in Israel than Jews, would it still be a Jewish state?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Yeah, Warren’s Israel position is really going to move the needle.  She shits all over Netanyahu, the horror. 

There is no “correct” way to approach the Israel/Palestine situation for a politician.  There will always be critics.

[Eggo 4026]

5 minutes ago, sublime said:

The Untouchables. X Files. Mueller. The Silence of the lambs. Those wind breakers.

I think the Texas Rangers are cool too. Hell or High Water.

Boot licker????? How about AMERICAN.

Technically, Mueller is former FBI.

[Dick Tremayne 103]

14 minutes ago, sublime said:

The Untouchables. X Files. Mueller. The Silence of the lambs. Those wind breakers.

I think the Texas Rangers are cool too. Hell or High Water.

Boot licker????? How about AMERICAN.

I was thinking more of actual FBI rather than fictional. You know, Hoover, COINTELPRO, letters sent to MLK attempting to blackmail him into suicide, the murder of Fred Hampton, Responsibilities Program, things like that. 

 

Yes, thinking that is cool is being a bootlicker. 

[tantric superman 4668]

37 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Here are the rules of the fight for Republicans. 

1. There are no rules. 

 

1(a).  Not really a rule, just a suggestion - don't waste time championing stupid shit.

[Hank Scorpio 17924]

I vote we crowdsource sublime. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The original premise for the FBI was good.  Going after white collar criminals and corrupt politicians.

However, J Edgar Hoover’s malfeasance continues to haunt the Bureau to this day. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I vote we crowdsource sublime. 

It’s ADHD/Purgatory/all those other names.

They tried to be clever and use an avatar to hide this time but their “voice” and insanity is very loud.

[Dick Tremayne 103]

3 minutes ago, sublime said:

Hey, name a thing you like and I'll tell you its sordid "half" history and then I'll call you a tulip. Go ahead. What is it that you think is "cool"!???

Booze and pussy. Have at it!

[Fozzz 152]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Which begs the question, if there were more Muslims in Israel than Jews, would it still be a Jewish state?

I thought it was a liberal democratic state, not an ethnostate?

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

Anger Management issues not going away for Amy.  

[Eggo 4026]

So Amy Klobuchar is Julia Louis Dreyfus in Veep. Got it. 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Eggo

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Elizabeth Warren has been angry for years, where is her coverage? 

[David Dennison 19529]

56 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I thought it was a liberal democratic state, not an ethnostate?

It is legally defined as a "Jewish and democratic state."

[Js1 87177]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It is legally defined as a "Jewish and democratic state."

Yes, that is correct.

[bad_teammate 13508]

From the HuffPo article...

During that same campaign, the president of the AFSCME local, the union that represented many of Klobuchar’s employees in the county attorney’s office, asked the larger Twin Cities AFSCME affiliate not to endorse Klobuchar’s Senate bid, citing her “shameful treatment of her employees.”

 

 

[David Dennison 19529]

Amy Klobuchar eating a salad on a plane with a comb she took from her purse is disqualifying for being just plain ol' nasty.

[tantric superman 4668]

25 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Amy Klobuchar eating a salad on a plane with a comb she took from her purse is disqualifying for being just plain ol' nasty.

Well, one less to think about.

[tantric superman 4668]

I think there is a double standard.  If Joe Biden had stuck his dick in Chuck Schumer's Cobb Salad while Chuck wasn't looking, I'd think it was kind of funny. 

But this comb shit?  Fucking loon.