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2020 Democratic Nominee

used2b

By used2b
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Huckleberry
Huckleberry

No it doesn't, this is absurd selfishness on a grand scale. Nobody is getting punished. My wife and I paid off our student loans, and you know what I think about younger people or even those in our ge

henrygandorf
henrygandorf

i’ve really enjoyed the 900 posts from bt explaining how bernie people aren’t aggressive, obsessive, and very-online.  truly a learning experience. 

Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton

3rd or 4th thread but whos counting.  Name recognition and ability to collect money is most important to the Democratic Party. They aren't trying to win 2020, they are trying to rebuild and colle

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted

My God Kamala is abominable.  

Quote

Many people have analogized Palestinian conditions to the Jim Crow South. Rep. Rashida Tlaib did so. So has Jimmy Carter, who grew up in segregated Georgia. Alabama native Condoleezza Rice also did so. And just last week Angela Davis said in Birmingham that Palestinians were an inspiration to black people in the civil rights struggle.

So it’s a little odd to hear Senator Kamala Harris using the segregated south as a basis for– her love for Israel! That’s what she did, in a private discussion with the Israel lobby group AIPAC last year, saying that the famous civil rights march in 1965 across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, was a guide to her to build a bridge with Israel supporters — “building the coalition, and building the connection between all of us to fight together and that’s on the issue of Israel, it’s on the issue of so many challenges that we face as a world.”

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/harris-because-struggle/

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Fozzz said:

They probably shouldn't lend support to Abrams' regime change stunt. The UN and Red Cross can see the actions of the US for what they are but apparently that truth eludes those two.  

best approach is not to burn the damn food trucks, agree? let the aid in. The politics are a shit show, so avoid that. 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
Just now, NowThis said:

best approach is not to burn the damn food trucks, agree? let the aid in. The politics are a shit show, so avoid that. 

They don't know what are in the trucks.  Abrams has used similar mechanisms in the past for sneaking in weapons.  If the US truly wishes to help then it can end its sanctions.  The trucks are only meant to destabilize the country.

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bernorange

bernorange 8385

Posted
Posted
On 2/22/2019 at 8:32 AM, Js1 said:

The Green New Deal - 

Yeah, people in the Midwest would hate new jobs, universal health care and fair minimum wage. Gross.

...

On 2/22/2019 at 9:19 AM, BradInATX said:

"Only if you allow FOX to frame it and sell it that way. The Green New Deal is the promise of a revitalization in the midwest, and any Dem worth a shit will sell it that way."

...

You peeps must have had an awesome weekend with whatever you were smoking last Friday.

Quote

...
The so-called Green New Deal may tally between $51 trillion and $93 trillion over 10-years, concludes American Action Forum, which is run by Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who directed the non-partisan CBO from from 2003 to 2005.

That includes between $8.3 trillion and $12.3 trillion to meet the plan’s call to eliminate carbon emissions from the power and transportation sectors and between $42.8 trillion and $80.6 trillion for its economic agenda including providing jobs and health care for all.
...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-25/group-sees-ocasio-cortez-s-green-new-deal-costing-93-trillion

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13519

Posted
Posted

Sounds good, let's do it.

Deficit and budget scolds lost their power a long time ago. Their very obvious and naked agenda for 30+ years has been to ensure that all wealth is concentrated at the top. I'm not even going to make a big deal, beyond this single sentence, of the point that those numbers come from the people who run the Congressional Leadership Fund. Let's just take those numbers and move forward with them.

Dealing with climate change isn't an optional thing, so the cost of dealing with it is not relevant. Jobs and healthcare aren't options, either.

Yes, it's going to be really expensive. Let's get to work.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

Posted
Posted
On 2/25/2019 at 7:44 AM, Fozzz said:

Sanders and Warren are both friends of Elliott Abrams now.  Embarrassing.  

 

 

 

 

Reaching w Bernie on this. One is not like the other. Bernie clarified his position on Venezuela. Just bc he supports humanitarian aid to people suffering doesn’t mean he has ulterior motives. Perhaps he simply supports helping those in need around the world.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/02/26/bernie-sanders-maduro-venezuela-sot-vpx.cnn

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Reaching w Bernie on this. One is not like the other. Bernie clarified his position on Venezuela. Just bc he supports humanitarian aid to people suffering doesn’t mean he has ulterior motives. Perhaps he simply supports helping those in need around the world.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/02/26/bernie-sanders-maduro-venezuela-sot-vpx.cnn

lmao "unintended consequences" gtfo Bernie 

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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5906

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bernorange said:

You peeps must have had an awesome weekend with whatever you were smoking last Friday.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-25/group-sees-ocasio-cortez-s-green-new-deal-costing-93-trillion

A look at the numbers in that article.... 

https://splinternews.com/study-green-new-deal-will-rob-and-kill-your-entire-fam-1832879851

 

 

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey’s Green New Deal is currently just a congressional resolution that may or may not get a Senate vote this week, but incredibly, the conservative American Action Forum, a group founded by former GOP Sen. Norm Coleman, has worked up an astonishing estimate of just how much it’ll cost—one which appears to have been pulled from a single extremely tight white ass. 

According to a write-up in the right-wingWashington Free Beacon, which calls it a “conservative estimate” (as in a lower-end estimate, not that it’s made up by conservatives), the American Action Forum puts the price tag at up to $93 trillion over 10 years. fmg.fusion&c=1551190297&sz=401x301

“The American Action Forum’s analysis shows that the Green New Deal would bankrupt the nation,” Republican Sen. John Barrasso, of “AOC wants to make ice cream illegal” fame, told the Free Beacon. “The total price tag would be $93 trillion over 10 years. That is roughly four times the value of all Fortune 500 companies combined. That’s no deal.”

How, exactly, did they get to $94 trillion? Per the Free Beacon (emphasis mine):

The American Action Forum calculated guaranteed green housing would cost between $1.6 trillion and $4.2 trillion; a federal jobs guarantee between $6.8 trillion and $44.6 trillion; a net zero emissions transportation system between $1.3 trillion and $2.7 trillion; a low-carbon electricity grid for $5.4 trillion; and “food security” for $1.5 billion.

Enough high-speed rail “to make air travel unnecessary,” would cost roughly $1.1 to $2.5 trillion. Universal Health Care, or a Medicare-for-all type plan, would cost $36 trillion over 10 years, totaling $260,000 per household in the United States.

Yes, you’re reading that right: their ballpark estimate on a federal jobs guarantee has a range of $38 trillion. The centrist Brookings Institution’s estimate last year, by the way, put the high end on a job guarantee at $543 billion a year, or $5.4 trillion over 10 years.

On Medicare for All, too, the AAF’s number is substantially higher than previous estimates. The libertarian Mercatus Center’s estimate set out to prove last year that Medicare for All would bankrupt the country, and inadvertently found that Medicare for All would eventually save about $2 trillion in national health expenditures. Even Mercatus, however, put the cost of Medicare for All at $32.6 trillion over 10 years.

The eye-popping estimate wouldn’t be complete without that time-honored Republican tradition, pretending like the cost of a new government program would be spread out evenly amongst American households:

In all, the plan would cost between $52.6 trillion and $94.4 trillion, over 10 years. The burden to the taxpayer would amount to between $361,010 and $653,010 for each household over 10 years.

Given that the Green New Deal currently exists as a set of priorities rather than a set of policies, the AAF estimate that Barrasso is all too willing to signal-boost exists for one purpose: to scare the absolute shit out of people. Nowhere do the AAF’s estimateslook at current U.S. healthcare costs. Nor do they tackle the enormous price tag that will come with allowing the worst effects of climate change to wash over us unabated.

The AAF’s estimate is just a new spin on an old game: the tax and spend libs are going to take all of your money and waste it on useless bullshit. It’s also a good example of the kind of thing that the Green New Deal advocates are going to be up against for a long time. But ultimately, the human and financial cost of not aggressively tackling climate change—and providing a strong safety net to help working-class people weather this uncertain new world we’re all going to be facing—is too great to let wildly speculative price tags dictate the terms of the debate.

 

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bernorange

bernorange 8385

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

A look at the numbers in that article....

Your source is mostly ad hominem.  Here is the actual report from AAF:

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/the-green-new-deal-scope-scale-and-implications/

They explain in each section how they arrived at their numbers.  And yes, there is going to be a very large/wide variance because the GND isn't a detailed proposal, so assumptions have to made/considered.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted
52 minutes ago, Dropout said:

He clearly understands the consequences in most cases. Quote that too. If you’re going to pick and choose his words to fit whatever narrative... I’ll let it go.

I don't think Bernie actually supports intervention in Venezuela but he needs to be more direct about what we are doing and why we are doing it (our intervention has nothing to do with the actual welfare of the Venezuelan people).  There is no need to paint it as a matter of us having more-or-less good intentions but the risk of "unintended consequences" outweighs whatever speculative benefit we may bestow upon Venezuela by our intervention.  Just say what this is really about.

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Eggo

Eggo 4026

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/24/2019 at 9:03 PM, Hank Kingsley said:

You are aware of what's going on with Trump and the entire Republican party, right? Do you think they have a willingness to negotiate on ideas/policies with the Democrats? Can you name a single Republican in office that's not disingenuous? I have one in mind. 

 

 

 

 

Who do you have in mind? I appreciate Rand Paul's willingness to not always follow rank and file, even if his stance on the issues are often batshit crazy. 

 

Edited by Eggo
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Eggo

Eggo 4026

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Rand is one of the biggest hypocrites of them all.

Yep. I know it's not the thread, but I'll say one last thing about it and it's that I notice that most Republicans who stick to their guns (no pun intended) on issues will very quietly disagree with Trump and cheer loudly when they agree. The word they use is "disappointed" when any person with a spine should be horrified. 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Posted
3 hours ago, Fozzz said:

I don't think Bernie actually supports intervention in Venezuela but he needs to be more direct about what we are doing and why we are doing it (our intervention has nothing to do with the actual welfare of the Venezuelan people).  There is no need to paint it as a matter of us having more-or-less good intentions but the risk of "unintended consequences" outweighs whatever speculative benefit we may bestow upon Venezuela by our intervention.  Just say what this is really about.

I mean that’s pretty much exactly what he said in the clip. He acknowledges that American led interventions have had disastrous consequences across this planet. He doesn’t call for American only aid. That seems to be your Abrams angle. He specifically calls for international oversight on aid and possible new free/fair elections for the people of that country. I suppose I’ll agree with you that he didn’t directly say Donald Trump is trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government and using humanitarian aid as a nice show. But he kinda did for anyone who’s paying attention. Which you are.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Posted
5 minutes ago, NowThis said:

maybe Bernie is top 1% of the top 1%

Commence head explosions across the country. My uninformed opinion is he’s afraid to show he’s a millionaire. Bad optics for some looking for bad optics. The thing is he has never made millionaires the boogeyman or made the American dream something to be ashamed of. That’s the perception of Bernie. How can a socialist be a millionaire blah blah blah.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dropout said:

Commence head explosions across the country. My uninformed opinion is he’s afraid to show he’s a millionaire. Bad optics for some looking for bad optics. The thing is he has never made millionaires the boogeyman or made the American dream something to be ashamed of. That’s the perception of Bernie. How can a socialist be a millionaire blah blah blah.

a US Senator makes $174,000 and Bernie lives in a 900sq ft apartment last time i checked (2016).  I'm sure he's saving like $50k-$80K a year and over a few decades that adds up to over a million, with mutual funds could double or triple. No real shame , for a man of his age, to be worth maybe $3mil+. It's not uncommon.  Still, a tax return only shows income, not wealth, so his net worth is speculation.  Maybe he made a bunch in stocks and real estate and doesn't want to show that. 

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WBT

WBT 20972

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Would like to hear why you think it's acceptable not to release them.

A candidate has a right to privacy like anyone else.  If you think they're involved in shady business practices, beholden to unsavory characters, or whatever else, then don't vote for them.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, WBT said:

A candidate has a right to privacy like anyone else.  If you think they're involved in shady business practices, beholden to unsavory characters, or whatever else, then don't vote for them.

we know all of congress is involved in shady business practices, because they are allowed to participate in insider trading. it's actually LEGAL for them to act on inside knowledge. i think bernie has taken a dip or two into the trough, and doesn't want to look like a hypocrite. 

think back on who our presidents have been recently. very few come out of the congress. obama did, but he wasn't there too terribly long. aside from that, it's been  governors all the way back to reagan, with the exception of HW bush. and he was a congressman back in the 70s, but served in other capacities, including VP in the interim time.  

it's problematic for congresspeople, because showing massive returns on investments, much higher than average, would have the appearance of impropriety. if he won't release his returns, i'll have to assume it's because there are some problems there.

Edited by hayden_horn
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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21551

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WBT said:

A candidate has a right to privacy like anyone else.  If you think they're involved in shady business practices, beholden to unsavory characters, or whatever else, then don't vote for them.

No, they don't have as much right to privacy as everyone else.  If Dotard has shown anything, it's that our POTUS candidates need to go through more financial vetting, not less.  

You want to be the leader of the free world?  Prove you're worthy.  

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21345

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

No, they don't have as much right to privacy as everyone else.  If Dotard has shown anything, it's that our POTUS candidates need to go through more financial vetting, not less.  

You want to be the leader of the free world?  Prove you're worthy.  

Yes.  It’s painfully obvious the public, aka sheep, needs to be armed with as much info as possible before stepping into the voting booth.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13519

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

You want to be the leader of the free world?  Prove you're worthy.  

What are Bernie's taxes going to show that would be relevant to proving worthiness to lead?

I don't care if he releases them or not. I'll care if there's some meaningful issue at work or some kind of problem we want an answer to. I didn't care about McCain's, Obama's, Kerry's, Clinton's, W. Bush's, or even Romney. I cared about Trump's because there was/is actually a lot of legitimate concern about him being a financial criminal.

It's one of those "If people are screaming loudly enough about it, it must be important" things.

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Mach 1

Mach 1 1677

Posted
Posted (edited)

Biden is absolutely running.  Can't remember the title of the book I read about the '88 election, but for some odd reason I specifically remember a quote by Biden.  He was moaning about his blue collar background,  how he thought it was holding him back from getting the right donors,  catching on with the right message, etc.   

"There's a river of power that runs this country, and that river runs right through the Ivy League."

Dude is from Scranton and has a chip on his shoulder.  Yeah, he's running and looking forward to a fight with Trump if he can get past the primaries.

Edited by Mach 1
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
Joe. Please, PLEASE make sure you pay them off in a way that will work and keep them quiet. Look. Just pay them off the right way, OK? We cannot have another 4 years of Trump.

Lol. So you're concerned about Biden having some yet to be named or discovered scandal and your brows are furrowed with the fury of a thousand suns. But Bernie refusing to release his tax returns despite every candidate between 1976 and Donald Trump doing so is no big deal.  

 

And of course you've justified your hypocrisy in wanting Trump's taxes by presuming him guilty of financial crimes with no trial, but bemoaning anyone thinking there's some smoke there with Bernie covering his returns up.

 

So you're a concern troll and a shameless hypocrite. Got it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2731

Posted
Posted
Lol. So you're concerned about Biden having some yet to be named or discovered scandal and your brows are furrowed with the fury of a thousand suns. But Bernie refusing to release his tax returns despite every candidate between 1976 and Donald Trump doing so is no big deal.   
And of course you've justified your hypocrisy in wanting Trump's taxes by presuming him guilty of financial crimes with no trial, but bemoaning anyone thinking there's some smoke there with Bernie covering his returns up.
 
So you're a concern troll and a shameless hypocrite. Got it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Careful Brad, Bernie bros do not fuck around
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