2020 Democratic Nominee

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Bloomberg officially OUT

[bad_teammate 13125]

We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Damn, rekt

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Sanders/Buttigieg 2020!

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Kinda disappointed none of those folks brought up corruption.  If you want real government solutions on climate change, healthcare, and guns you’re going to have to tackle the bad money influences first. 

There’s no way our politicians can debate or work together in good faith when the special interest forces have them compromised.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Keyword for 2020... "affordable"

Not guaranteed. Not assured. Not provided. Not a right.

Merely accessible.

[bad_teammate 13125]

*triggering intensifies*

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Hillary needs to sit back and just throw shade at Trump on twitter for the next 18 months.  

Honestly, that’s how she could help the democrats the most. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Message Board User 12389]

45 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hillary needs to sit back and just throw shade at Trump on twitter for the next 18 months.  

Honestly, that’s how she could help the democrats the most. 

This advice is about as wrong as it gets.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

5 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

This advice is about as wrong as it gets.

Really?  So she should go out stumping for Kamala and Beto? 

She would be a great distraction for Trump and his cult following who are never going to vote democrat anyway.   

[SKJ 1305]

I understand that no one is on board with Andrew Yang just yet. But I'm all seriousness, single payer, Medicare for all would take a shitload of pain off of business in this country, and free up that money so that hiring wouldn't be so expensive... Small business would grow, and on top of that, the economy would benefit from getting away from 'gig' and contracting jobs.

Yang has proposed this as a way to actually stimulate the economy.

He checks all the boxes for me. But I don't get how more people aren't getting behind his policy ideas.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Yang strikes me as a great cabinet level official, love his ideas but not ready for prime time to lead the world.  

We alway focus on the ideas and charisma but there’s a lot of other components that go into evaluating a potential president.

Yang needs a shitload more exposure if he’s going to be taken seriously.

I hope he gets it.

[David Dennison 18608]

39 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Really?  So she should go out stumping for Kamala and Beto? 

She would be a great distraction for Trump and his cult following who are never going to vote democrat anyway.   

No, she should shut the fuck up and stay out of politics for the rest of her life.

[SKJ 1305]

I can't see why people don't take it seriously.

I get it, not a lot of people know who he even is at this point, but he's a leader, and he's fucking scary smart. I have no real hope that his message even gets out, but shit, he's the only candidate that is seeing the problems and has a solid solution to any of them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

5 minutes ago, SKJ said:

he's a leader, and he's fucking scary smart. 

That’s why I think he’d make a great cabinet level official.  I’m of the opinion none of his ideas could be implemented without a serious confrontation with the corruption issues first.  

[SKJ 1305]

I mean, absent Trump, the corruption issue would be about what, half of what it is today?

Hell, if McConnell could just die soon, we'd be down to about 20%, right?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

12 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I mean, absent Trump, the corruption issue would be about what, half of what it is today?

Hell, if McConnell could just die soon, we'd be down to about 20%, right?

The corruption issue has been there for a generation.  It’s what led to the Iraq War and the 2008 crash.  We never paid the consequences because we bailed out the banks and no one was properly held accountable.  We did very little as the corporate forces consolidated more wealth, influence, and power at the expense of the middle class.  Citizens United and the Tea Party exacerbated the corruption.  Trump was the logical conclusion of decades of neglect and malfeasance among our elected officials.

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 hour ago, SKJ said:

I understand that no one is on board with Andrew Yang just yet. But I'm all seriousness, single payer, Medicare for all would take a shitload of pain off of business in this country, and free up that money so that hiring wouldn't be so expensive... Small business would grow, and on top of that, the economy would benefit from getting away from 'gig' and contracting jobs.

Yang has proposed this as a way to actually stimulate the economy.

He checks all the boxes for me. But I don't get how more people aren't getting behind his policy ideas.

UBI is Yang's unique idea, not Medicare For All.

[SKJ 1305]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

UBI is Yang's unique idea, not Medicare For All.

If you want to be truthful about it, he doesn't have any unique ideas. UBI had been around in some form or another for a long time.

I'm saying that no one is talking about the benefits of Medicare for all on the economy. They're all just saying it's a right.

He's providing a huge amount of information on why Medicare for all isn't just another huge expenditure when it would actually be a great benefit to the economy in several ways.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5781]

This is Kamala's nomination to lose. If she does well in the debates, then she's the nominee. If she bombs in the debates, then it's game on... 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

[bad_teammate 13125]

51 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I'm saying that no one is talking about the benefits of Medicare for all on the economy.

Brother SKJ, I'd like to share with you the Good News. Have you been wanting an old, rumpled, lecturing Jewish man who will surely die before the end of his second term? Does the thought of a man, who lives in the bitter cold, having only one winter coat for the last 3 years get your horny? What if I told you his hair is stupid and he gets grumpy all the god damned time?

Assuming you like all that, I've got Good News to share!

Why Medicare-for-All is Good for Business

Let’s be clear. Not only is our dysfunctional health care system causing unnecessary suffering and financial stress for millions of low- and middle-income families, it is also having a very negative impact on our economy and the business community—especially small- and medium-sized companies. Private businesses spent $637 billion on private health insurance in 2015 and are projected to spend $1.059 trillion in 2025.

But it’s not just the heavy financial cost of health care that the business community is forced to bear. It is time and energy. Instead of focusing on their core business goals, small- and medium-sized businesses are forced to spend an inordinate amount of time, energy, and resources trying to navigate an incredibly complex system in order to get the most cost-effective coverage possible for their employees. It is not uncommon for employers to spend weeks every year negotiating with private insurance companies, filling out reams of paperwork, and switching carriers to get the best deal they can.

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Maggie Haberman is the literal worst.

[Js1 85056]

9 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Maggie Haberman is the literal worst.

Qft 

[Bruh Man 3160]

5 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Damn, rekt

 

Alisyn Camerota is effin hot. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, SKJ said:

If you want to be truthful about it, he doesn't have any unique ideas. UBI had been around in some form or another for a long time.

I'm saying that no one is talking about the benefits of Medicare for all on the economy. They're all just saying it's a right.

He's providing a huge amount of information on why Medicare for all isn't just another huge expenditure when it would actually be a great benefit to the economy in several ways.

UBI will be an absolute necessity at some point, but it isn't yet.  When the time comes though, the Bezos' and the Waltons of the world will be clamoring for it as much as the "socialists."  So will pretty much any business owner who produces a product or service.  The only ones who won't support it are bankrupt Manhattan real estate tycoons and Russian trolls.  The trolls will continue to get unemployed West Virginia trailer park dwellers to vote against their own best interests. 

Universal healthcare is an urgent matter right now.  And once those WV trailer park dwellers have it, they won't ever give it up. It will be locked in for as long as we remain a country. 

[SKJ 1305]

28 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Brother SKJ, I'd like to share with you the Good News. Have you been wanting an old, rumpled, lecturing Jewish man who will surely die before the end of his second term? Does the thought of a man, who lives in the bitter cold, having only one winter coat for the last 3 years get your horny? What if I told you his hair is stupid and he gets grumpy all the god damned time?

Assuming you like all that, I've got Good News to share!

Why Medicare-for-All is Good for Business

Let’s be clear. Not only is our dysfunctional health care system causing unnecessary suffering and financial stress for millions of low- and middle-income families, it is also having a very negative impact on our economy and the business community—especially small- and medium-sized companies. Private businesses spent $637 billion on private health insurance in 2015 and are projected to spend $1.059 trillion in 2025.

But it’s not just the heavy financial cost of health care that the business community is forced to bear. It is time and energy. Instead of focusing on their core business goals, small- and medium-sized businesses are forced to spend an inordinate amount of time, energy, and resources trying to navigate an incredibly complex system in order to get the most cost-effective coverage possible for their employees. It is not uncommon for employers to spend weeks every year negotiating with private insurance companies, filling out reams of paperwork, and switching carriers to get the best deal they can.

 

I've watched several interviews with that old fuck and he never brings that up.

Someone else must've written that shit for him.

I honestly believe Yang would politely destroy Bernie in a debate

[SKJ 1305]

7 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

UBI will be an absolute necessity at some point, but it isn't yet.  When the time comes though, the Bezos' and the Waltons of the world will be clamoring for it as much as the "socialists."  So will pretty much any business owner who produces a product or service.  The only ones who won't support it are bankrupt Manhattan real estate tycoons and Russian trolls.  The trolls will continue to get unemployed West Virginia trailer park dwellers to vote against their own best interests. 

Universal healthcare is an urgent matter right now.  And once those WV trailer park dwellers have it, they won't ever give it up. It will be locked in for as long as we remain a country. 

Just look at the automation wave.

It's coming faster than you think.

The uber rich will be calling for it so they don't get killed by the rest of America, and so they'll have some customers again.

The only way the super rich get behind it is so they can use it as corporate welfare.

They also sure as shit don't want to pay a VAT... They're rather good at never making a "profit"

They're probably only going to call for it after they get another tax break and pass it on to the middle class, their own class warfare

Edited March 6, 2019 by SKJ
Fuck off

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Just look at the automation wave.

It's coming faster than you think.

The uber rich will be calling for it so they don't get killed by the rest of America, and so they'll have some customers again.

The only way the super rich get behind it is so they can use it as corporate welfare.

 

I have an idea how fast its coming. The "gig" economy we are currently in is the final phase before shit hits the fan, I believe.  There are also quite a lot of benevolent employers who are letting boomer stick around until retirement before eliminating their positions entirely. Maybe that will still happen somewhat when Gen X and Millenials hit that age. Gen Z will have a hard time getting into that position in the first place. 

[SKJ 1305]

4 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I have an idea how fast its coming. The "gig" economy we are currently in is the final phase before shit hits the fan, I believe.  There are also quite a lot of benevolent employers who are letting boomer stick around until retirement before eliminating their positions entirely. Maybe that will still happen somewhat when Gen X and Millenials hit that age. Gen Z will have a hard time getting into that position in the first place. 

Maybe, but I bet all that shit is over when the next recession comes.

Donald Trump is only accelerating that process.

I know that if I owned a business, especially one that is publicly traded, fiduciary responsibility would make me cut! those jobs with a quickness.

Yang also supports changing our economic indicators away from GDP so we can get a better look into what the numbers really mean.

I mean, seriously, he's checking all my boxes, but I feel like I'm alone in recognizing it

[FondrenRoad 4378]

14 minutes ago, SKJ said:

Maybe, but I bet all that shit is over when the next recession comes.

Donald Trump is only accelerating that process.

I know that if I owned a business, especially one that is publicly traded, fiduciary responsibility would make me cut! those jobs with a quickness.

Yang also supports changing our economic indicators away from GDP so we can get a better look into what the numbers really mean.

I mean, seriously, he's checking all my boxes, but I feel like I'm alone in recognizing it

You aren't. He is my favorite candidate too.

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

On 3/4/2019 at 2:09 PM, bad_teammate said:

Also, unions are awesome and we need far more of them.

Lol.  Tell that to Chicago and Detroit.  Unions fucked them both hard.  They’re so great that physicians can’t even legally unionize   That’s because everyone knows how unions negotiate - fuck everyone but the people in my union.  I’m thinking doctors could have a pretty good union  

For the millionth time neither far right (OK/KS) nor far left (Chicago/Detroit) fiscal policies work.  

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 hours ago, SKJ said:

I've watched several interviews with that old fuck and he never brings that up.

Someone else must've written that shit for him.

lol normal brain reaction

Quote

I honestly believe Yang would politely destroy Bernie in a debate

By what, Yang lecturing Bernie about Bernie's own legislation?

Yang: "Medicare for All will help save businesses, Senator Sanders, why can't  you understand that?"
Sanders: "Yes, I know. I've said it for years."
Yang: "Someone else wrote that for you! Probably a Russian!"

DESTROYED by LOGIC!!

8 hours ago, SKJ said:

The uber rich will be calling for it so they don't get killed by the rest of America, and so they'll have some customers again.

Customers who make significantly less money than they did before aren't great customers.

UBI is fine if properly cast, but it doesn't replace a good, living wage. People need and want jobs. The question isn't how to best turn the working class into servile do-nothings who get a monthly check from the ultra-wealthy elites, it's how do we keep them meaningfully and gainfully employed.

5 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  Tell that to Chicago and Detroit.  Unions fucked them both hard.  They’re so great that physicians can’t even legally unionize   That’s because everyone knows how unions negotiate - fuck everyone but the people in my union.  I’m thinking doctors could have a pretty good union   

For the millionth time neither far right (OK/KS) nor far left (Chicago/Detroit) fiscal policies work.  

Unions suck and I'm mad we can't have a union. Normal brains out in force this morning.

[bad_teammate 13125]

SKJ's strangely angry reaction to being shown that Bernie Sanders had already talked about M4A's benefits to business got me thinking. "Hmm, maybe I'm the dumbass and Bernie really has never talked about that."

So I went through the press conference in which Sanders introduced a Medicare for All bill (sponsored by many 2020 hopefuls) and, wouldn't you know it!?

29:30 in (Sanders has 3 speakers talk before him (doctor, nurse, and patient))

Edited March 6, 2019 by bad_teammate

[SKJ 1305]

I'm not angry that you showed me that. I'm not angry at all about Bernie. 

I might be a little angry that I've finally found a candidate that I love and he's probably not going anywhere.

And to the video, I stand corrected.

 

[thrillhammer 683]

there was a great episode of washington journal on cspan yesterday morning.  you can catch the transcript on their website.  had a doctor on that was all for medicare for all.  explained it in reasonable terms.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  Tell that to Chicago and Detroit.  Unions fucked them both hard.  They’re so great that physicians can’t even legally unionize   That’s because everyone knows how unions negotiate - fuck everyone but the people in my union.  I’m thinking doctors could have a pretty good union  

For the millionth time neither far right (OK/KS) nor far left (Chicago/Detroit) fiscal policies work.  

Do you consider doctors to be easily replaced workers?  Doctors don't need protection from management. I would imagine that the majority of doctors don't even want unions. Why would a specialist working in a city want his wages set by a national union board?  Doctors already complain incessantly about insurance companies setting the prices for their services. Do you really want to voluntarily submit to a fixed compensation schedule?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

lol normal brain reaction

By what, Yang lecturing Bernie about Bernie's own legislation?

Yang: "Medicare for All will help save businesses, Senator Sanders, why can't  you understand that?"
Sanders: "Yes, I know. I've said it for years."
Yang: "Someone else wrote that for you! Probably a Russian!"

DESTROYED by LOGIC!!

Customers who make significantly less money than they did before aren't great customers.

UBI is fine if properly cast, but it doesn't replace a good, living wage. People need and want jobs. The question isn't how to best turn the working class into servile do-nothings who get a monthly check from the ultra-wealthy elites, it's how do we keep them meaningfully and gainfully employed.

Unions suck and I'm mad we can't have a union. Normal brains out in force this morning.

We can't keep them meaningfully and gainfully employed. You either give them income to live on so that they can pursue their own endeavors if they choose. Or you give them a meaningless and unnecessary job just to keep them busy. 

If I have a fully automated factory, is it better for the economy if I pay five employees to clock in and stand around and watch conveyors?  Or is it better to pay them and tell them they never need to come in?  Maybe 2 or 3 of them sit around and play video games, but a few of them will decide to start a small business.  Something they would have been unable to do with 0 income and also unable to do if they wasted 40 hours a week standing around my warehouse. 

[ChiTownDoc 21091]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Unions suck and I'm mad we can't have a union. Normal brains out in force this morning.

Fuck you’re beyond help.  Lol

Unions?  LOL

We should definitely have more so they can keep voting Trump in.  Newsflash, they hate soyboys like you.  

As long as shitforbrains like you line up on the far left, Trump and his ilk will point and  the clowns in fly over country will choose to vote for their own death over teaming up with a nut job like you.  But it’s cool, never change.  

Ill be over here laughing at you.  

[David Dennison 18608]

21 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Do you consider doctors to be easily replaced workers?  Doctors don't need protection from management. I would imagine that the majority of doctors don't even want unions. Why would a specialist working in a city want his wages set by a national union board?  Doctors already complain incessantly about insurance companies setting the prices for their services. Do you really want to voluntarily submit to a fixed compensation schedule?

Easily, obviously not. Replaceable, absolutely.

 

[Hank Kingsley 20636]

10 hours ago, SKJ said:

Yang also supports changing our economic indicators away from GDP so we can get a better look into what the numbers really mean.

I mean, seriously, he's checking all my boxes, but I feel like I'm alone in recognizing it

I like Yang and look forward to hearing more from him. I think the reality is right now is he's a "niche" candidate, focusing on UBI ,jobs/automation, and economic math-crunching. He has very important ideas that the voters need to hear about. Looks like he's pretty much guaranteed to make the debates. 

[Biff Tannen 45478]

Is there a video/link to Yang and his ideas that isn't Joe Rogan?

[bad_teammate 13125]

26 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We can't keep them meaningfully and gainfully employed.

You say that with a completely unwarranted certainty. Societies and economies always evolve in reaction to technological change and, far more importantly, in response to the demands of social values and needs.

Not only are there obvious areas for job growth as we invest in public spending... we already have a labor shortage.

Quote

If I have a fully automated factory, is it better for the economy if I pay five employees to clock in and stand around and watch conveyors?  Or is it better to pay them and tell them they never need to come in?  Maybe 2 or 3 of them sit around and play video games, but a few of them will decide to start a small business.  Something they would have been unable to do with 0 income and also unable to do if they wasted 40 hours a week standing around my warehouse. 

They don't have to work at the factory, but they have to work somewhere. Obviously many will be incapable or unwilling, but if the only options for the large majority are "I don't know, start a business!" (vague nonsense for the vast majority) and "play video games" then you're begging for an insane level of profound social dysfunction.

If the private capital market cannot provide jobs, the public sector must provide them. And I can tell you multiple areas in which we can employ people with public funds to do important work right now.

- A massive project to rebuild and regularly maintain physical infrastructure
- Homecare workers
- Staffing for universal Pre-K and infant care
- Teachers, coaches, and mentors in public schools with the goal of 15-max class sizes
- Increased trade/vocational/life skills teachers in public schools

UBI as a very basic, baseline income for all Americans is a great idea for health and growth when coupled with a robust jobs program

UBI as the only designated income and throwing our hands up at job loss is a recipe for national collapse

16 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Fuck you’re beyond help.  Lol

Unions?  LOL

We should definitely have more so they can keep voting Trump in.  Newsflash, they hate soyboys like you.  

As long as shitforbrains like you line up on the far left, Trump and his ilk will point and  the clowns in fly over country will choose to vote for their own death over teaming up with a nut job like you.  But it’s cool, never change.  

Ill be over here laughing at you.  

Not mad. Actually, it's funny and he's laughing.

[David Dennison 18608]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You say that with a completely unwarranted certainty. Societies and economies always evolve in reaction to technological change and, far more importantly, in response to the demands of social values and needs.

Not only are there obvious areas for job growth as we invest in public spending... we already have a labor shortage.

We also have an overabundance of unfulfilling bullshit jobs that no one in their right mind would want to do for a living if they didn't have to.

[EMAWesome 101]

12 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

[bad_teammate 13125]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

We also have an overabundance of unfulfilling bullshit jobs that no one in their right mind would want to do for a living if they didn't have to.

Yep yep yep yep. The immiseration of the working class is happening exactly as beard daddy said it would.

Within the capitalist system all methods for raising the social productivity of labour are put into effect at the cost of the individual worker [...] All means for the development of production undergo a dialectical inversion so that they become a means of domination and exploitation of the producers; they distort the worker into a fragment of a man, they degrade him to the level of an appendage of a machine, they destroy the actual content of his labour by turning it into a torment, they alienate from him the intellectual potentialities of the labour process [...], they transform his life into working-time, and his wife and child beneath the wheels of the juggernaut of capital. But all methods of the production of surplus-value are at the same time methods of accumulation, and every extension of accumulation becomes, conversely, a means for the development of these methods. It follows therefore that in proportion as capital accumulates, the situation of the worker, be his payment high or low, must grow worse.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

- A massive project to rebuild and regularly maintain physical infrastructure
- Homecare workers
- Staffing for universal Pre-K and infant care
- Teachers, coaches, and mentors in public schools with the goal of 15-max class sizes
- Increased trade/vocational/life skills teachers in public schools

Are you operating under the assumption that automation isn't affecting and never will affect jobs in construction?

Out of your list, only homecare workers really have a current shortage. The rest are underpaid, but shortages only exist in locales that will require a "shitty location" stipend to fully staff. Also, it takes a certain type of person to be a homecare worker or pre-K teacher Most people don't have the temperament or desire to do it even if they were high wage positions. For example, I think you are a bright guy. However, I wouldn't want you taking care of my pre schooler or my grandmother. 

You also don't understand the basic premise. UBI isn't about freeing up people to start traditional small businesses, although that will occur. Its about freeing up people to pursue their interests which may or may not become profitable.  And Yang misunderstands it slightly as well. 1k a month isn't enough. It needs to provide full coverage of necessities. 

Both the Jetsons and the Flintstones covered this years ago. The computer doesn't really need George to press a button to produce a sprocket. The dinosaur doesn't really need Fred to move rocks. The next step is to continue paying them but to let them do something else with their time. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[Chrispy 132]

This is purely anecdotal, but the consensus among my Republican buddies is that although they won’t vote for him, they’d be content with a Biden presidency. 

[Todd Gack 422]

39 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Is there a video/link to Yang and his ideas that isn't Joe Rogan?

This is a good Q&A w/ students from Georgetown.  His podcast with Sam Harris is also pretty informative, but most of that stuff was also covered on Rogan.