2020 Democratic Nominee

[bad_teammate 13195]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Since we're being ridiculous..

There is no chance Warren ever drinks a beer outside of a photo op setting.

Have you ever met or hung out with law professors?

[Hank Kingsley 20929]

Mayor Pete has hit the 65k donor threshold. 

 

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

7 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

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Diana Martinez, 70, looked at Beto O’Rourke, 46, and made her choice: It was time for Generation X to fix this country.

“Doesn’t he remind you of Kennedy?” Ms. Martinez said as Mr. O’Rourke offered firm handshakes and music recommendations to a coffeehouse crowd. “He’s young. That’s what it’s going to take to try and beat Trump.”

...

“Everything about him is an inspiration,” said Angela Scott, 27, after meeting (and high-fiving) Mr. O’Rourke at a sub shop in Burlington, Iowa. “You can’t help but like that man.”

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vs.

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“I know Bernie has a laid-out plan for Medicare and free tuition,” said Austin Palmer, a 25-year-old South Carolinian who went to see Mr. Sanders vow political revolution Thursday night in North Charleston. “Beto has made some broad statements so far.”

...

“Gen Z is coming,” warned a peer, Madison Brady, 18. “We’re so angry.”

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A surprisingly good article from GarbageMags, but that's because she's primarily just quoting people.

[troph 24791]

Have you ever met or hung out with law professors?

As a lawyer and former law student I can say law professors are a lot of fun to have drinks with. Their experience with matters of the law makes for incredible conversation.

And this convo has morphed into using the trope that Bolverk threw out there but even he didn’t ascribe to it.

The question presented is which woman candidate could say with conviction “I was born to be in it” and people would naturally want to respond, “fuck yeah, she’s awesome!”

That’s the litmus test to me. Americans love winners. Underdog winners even more, and smarts, cool factor, and looks and policy wonkiness and all of that may be part of the equation to be an American winner. But the fact remains it’s the “fuck yeah” response that breeds the followers.

Pelosi
AOC
Harris

And that’s about it for me.

I have plenty to say about why there aren’t more and why it’s wrong to sideline Warren. I really really like her but in terms of being objective the list of possibles is low for the women and it’s not that much better for the men.

[bolverk 29671]

It's certainly true that few people have that intangible charisma (or whatever you want to call it) quality, regardless of gender. That certain je ne sais quoi comes out in a number of ways: humor, good storytelling, looks, confidence, making you feel good about yourself, sense of ease in their own skin, etc. That's the characteristic that I think most of the public look for in leaders - even if they're not consciously aware of it.

Borrowing from another old trope that DC is Hollywood for other people might explain why that characteristic seems so rare among politicians who come from a few different piles of people: wonks, true believers, charlatans, power hungry. In other words, most of them are dorks, nerds, or dicks. Very few from those categories tend to make people want to run walls through for them. I think it's that quality which ends up being the most persuasive in this age of mass media and results (for better or worse) in getting an individual elected.

I know it's really shallow but "likeability" really is an important thing to look for if we want to get a progressive elected. 

[retread 2951]

^ Good points, Troph and Bolverk. For Americans, I think part of being a winner is also being tough enough to be President. 

To me, these jump off the page in that regard

Harris
Biden
Sanders
Buttigieg (with a little tweaking of his message)

Gillibrand is one that doesn't seem tough at all.

It's very subjective, but for a busy American voter, they don't have time to read up on 10 different candidates. A lot of them get a broad-brush feel for the candidates.

[bad_teammate 13195]

34 minutes ago, troph said:

That’s the litmus test to me. Americans love winners. Underdog winners even more, and smarts, cool factor, and looks and policy wonkiness and all of that may be part of the equation to be an American winner. But the fact remains it’s the “fuck yeah” response that breeds the followers.

 

I think you're ignoring the different ways candidates sell themselves to deliver that absolutely necessary "fuck yeah" response.

1) There are candidate-central campaigns that exist to sell the image and hope of the leader himself (and I say "himself" because societal misogyny makes that VERY difficult for women in the US). "THOSE are the bad guys and I am going to beat them!"

2) There are movement-central campaigns that exist to advocate mass movements. "Not me, us." type movements that motivate voters by saying, "THOSE are the bad guys and WE are going to beat them!"

I agree that Warren shouldn't be running Type 1. But she could be amazing running Type 2.

[Celery Man 20947]

good

 

[troph 24791]

I think you're ignoring the different ways candidates sell themselves to deliver that absolutely necessary "fuck yeah" response.
1) There are candidate-central campaigns that exist to sell the image and hope of the leader himself (and I say "himself" because societal misogyny makes that VERY difficult for women in the US). "THOSE are the bad guys and I am going to beat them!"
2) There are movement-central campaigns that exist to advocate mass movements. "Not me, us." type movements that motivate voters by saying, "THOSE are the bad guys and WE are going to beat them!"
I agree that Warren shouldn't be running Type 1. But she could be amazing running Type 2.

I didn’t ignore it at all, I said a number of factors go into making a winner and listed a few from looks to cool factor to policy acumen and we can list a hundred aspects. The bottom line is likability or intrinsic charisma or whatever and however that turns into a loyal following is *the* determining factor. And along gender lines the formula is a lot harder for women.

[bad_teammate 13195]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

I didn’t ignore it at all, I said a number of factors go into making a winner and listed a few from looks to cool factor to policy acumen and we can list a hundred aspects. The bottom line is likability or intrinsic charisma or whatever and however that turns into a loyal following is *the* determining factor. And along gender lines the formula is a lot harder for women.

Agreed. Absolutely.

Multiple roads to get there, and I'm hoping Warren finds hers soon.

[Bama Chick 28596]

troph is 1,000% correct.

 

Ever seen a cult leader who’s a man?

 

I can only think of Heavens Gate and she was the appendage of a man.

 

And, not for nothing, I’ve always thought you have to be a bit of a narcissist to truly believe you can run for and win the presidency.

 

Narcissism is something that is part of that X-factor in charm. As long as it’s not at an unhealthy level, narcissistic people can be quite successful.

 

And men are way better at that too.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201503/which-is-the-more-narcissistic-sex%3Famp

 

[horncyclist 1387]

36 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

good

 

Great that the debates will have both Buttigieg and Yang. Hopefully there will be some serious moderation and we'll actually have some useful discussion. 

[bolverk 29671]

"Swagger" for me is a trait that's typically identified with men that I think women can pull off and seem like they have "it" without being labeled an unlikeable bitch. Maybe it's because I was born and raised in Texas, but it's something that I tend to equate with a specific stereotype associated with Southern women in general and Texas women specifically. I think a whole lot of Black women have it too. But it's something I rarely associate with women from the Northeast. And, yeah, I realize I'm treading on thin ice with these stereotypes.

But, when I think of women in politics with swagger, I think Ann, Molly, and Michelle. That's the formula for women that seems the most effective at disarming the unlikeable bitch label that so many women in politics get.

[Bama Chick 28596]

"Swagger" for me is a trait that's typically identified with men that I think women can pull off and seem like they have "it" without being labeled an unlikeable bitch. Maybe it's because I was born and raised in Texas, but it's something that I tend to equate with a specific stereotype associated with Southern women in general and Texas women specifically. I think a whole lot of Black women have it too. But it's something I rarely associate with women from the Northeast. And, yeah, I realize I'm treading on thin ice with these stereotypes.
But, when I think of women in politics with swagger, I think Ann, Molly, and Michelle. That's the formula for women that seems the most effective at disarming the unlikeable bitch label that so many women in politics get.

Yep. A southern woman can get away with it without being labeled a bitch because we tend to cover it with some sugar but also cuss a lot.

The accent helps too.

And I want to be clear, I’m not talking about likability - it’s, like you said, a swagger, an it factor.

Then we get into the whole internalized misogyny a lot of women have.

How many times have you heard the phrase “Men want to be him and women want to fuck him” about a man?

You almost never hear the reverse about a woman. Because we women tend to get jealous or threatened by charismatic women and want to tear them down instead of follow them.

I know I do it.

Plus, until very recently, women with this quality used their skills and went into entertainment. Politics wasn’t an open door for women en masse until this generation.

[bolverk 29671]

8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Then we get into the whole internalized misogyny a lot of women have.

How many times have you heard the phrase “Men want to be him and women want to fuck him” about a man?

You almost never hear the reverse about a woman. Because we women tend to get jealous or threatened by charismatic women and want to tear them down instead of follow them.

I know I do it.

 

1

Man, I hope I've raised my daughter well enough to not fall into this trap. I was just texting her and she's in NYC at a bagel shop on her way back to college from a week in Florida on Spring Break. She's deaf, 19, hates Donald Trump, and just kicks all sorts of ass. I think she's got "it" but, of course, I'm biased.

[bad_teammate 13195]

It's a much tougher row to hoe for a woman than a man, and we are growing more and more intolerant of that situation. That intolerance is also behind the... uh... unenthusiastic response to a white Gen X guy who comes waltzing into a field against substantive women and minorities with zero substance of his own but still obliviously rides on the full, unwavering confidence that the table is just going to be naturally set for him because the world was built for him (which, of course, it was).

[HenryJames 66049]

 

[Brisketexan 105130]

 

That’s fucking awesome.

[SubliminalHorn 6787]

I think Mayor Booty can pull this off. It helps he’s “straight acting” and not queeny. He’s be DOA if that were the case. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

14 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Welp, here's another $10 for Pete!

[Hank Kingsley 20929]

Wow. 

[horncyclist 1387]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Wow. 

He forgot to ask them to go to act blue to donate. Amateur. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ PETE TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Brisketexan 105130]

Wow. 

Damn.
That’s fantastic.
Pete’s getting some money from me. And my vote. Nobody’s perfect, but damn.

[HenryJames 66049]

Remember what leadership looks like?

[Brisketexan 105130]

Remember what leadership looks like?

Not really. In fairness, his maturity and intelligence appear to eclipse anyone in leadership in my adult life.

[retread 2951]

Very well spoken and a great presence. He definitely has a shot.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I want to meet Pete’s parents and find out how they raised such a remarkable human being. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[troph 24791]

Speaking of charisma ... I’m drawn...

[bad_teammate 13195]

Beto, please end this man's hopes

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

People are going to learn very quickly Biden is his own worst enemy.  Dude is a gaffe machine. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Like when Evan McMullin discovered that the Democratic Socialists of America are socialists.

 

[UTDD 362]

11 hours ago, troph said:

I didn’t ignore it at all, I said a number of factors go into making a winner and listed a few from looks to cool factor to policy acumen and we can list a hundred aspects. The bottom line is likability or intrinsic charisma or whatever and however that turns into a loyal following is *the* determining factor. And along gender lines the formula is a lot harder for women.

Yeah, I see this the same way.  And age/looks - unfair as it is but I think it's true enough for enough voters to be a relevant factor - is even more of a variable that influences intrinsic charisma and likability for women versus men.  At least in this specific realm of politics in 2019-2020.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I like Booker but he tries way too hard to be cool & hip.

Be yourself, dude.

[horncyclist 1387]

18 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

 

After reading this, I got curious about how many languages Buttigieg speaks. Apparently, it's 7 conversationally, which is 7 more than our current president. 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

Is “twitter” a language one can speak conversationally? If so, he’s up to 1.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Pete going on Fox News

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

All right, everyone who had "Joe Biden Will Announce on Accident in a Verbal Gaffe" on their bingo cards, mark it.

Great start to Presidential Run #3, Joe! WOO!

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Red Five 40857]

I think Biden is going to have a Fred Thompson-like run. Looking at him in that clip, he's just too old.

[NowThis 931]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

I like Booker but he tries way too hard to be cool & hip.

Be yourself, dude.

for the longest time, I seriously thought he was the guy on the left  

[David Dennison 18856]

I had already forgotten Cory Booker is running for president.

[bad_teammate 13195]

Not starting a thread for it, but Gillibrand is out of exploratory committee and officially running.

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Mayor Pete must be gaining real traction.

I’ve started to see the first “Warren/Clinton would be called elitist if this story was about them” hot takes in regards to the learning a different language just to read a book story.

And questioning why he’s running now and not making space for woman.

(I despise that kind of thinking)

Good for him.

[Hank Kingsley 20929]

He is. #Buttimentum

Pete’s had an incredible week. Pre-Town Hall last Sunday he had 160k twitter followers. He’s now at 313k.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Imagine being assigned to do opposition research on Pete Buttigieg in the GOP. 

It’s probably a depressing job since you’re going to have to study all the cool things about Pete and find some way to spin it in the negative.

Who am I kidding, the GOP will just make shit up about Pete if they have to, also known as the Hillary option. 

[scottsins 1966]

17 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

People are going to learn very quickly Biden is his own worst enemy.  Dude is a gaffe machine. 

Easier than that...

He is going to be completely taken apart by women, because of his perceived role in getting Clarence Thomas confirmed after the Anita Hill stuff.