Allen Outlet Mall Massacre

[Js1 85296]

1 minute ago, El Tri said:

i'll tell you right now. your balls would have shriveled up and you would have done the same thing as the driver. to think you're somehow braver than this person is idiotic.

i have zero desire to be a hero and leave my wife a widow and my kids without a father.

I can honestly say I don’t think I’d try to be a hero. I don’t have that in me to take a life and put myself in danger of being mowed down by the gun man 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Js1

[Helobious 9451]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

You could have also been killed. It’s not clear why that possibility is being left out of your hypothetical.

He could’ve been killed as he fled too if the shooter simply turned around. You floor it, you die a hero and get remembered. You run away, maybe you live but you just die some other day in obscurity like almost everyone else. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

If you have to train people to use a vehicle as a weapon, it's already too late. We should be training how to perform an ocular patdown and eliminate the risk before it becomes a problem. 

[mdmost 43001]

I see we've entered the bargaining stage. 

[El Tri 412]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

He could’ve been killed as he fled too if the shooter simply turned around. You floor it, you die a hero and get remembered. You run away, maybe you live but you just die some other day in obscurity like almost everyone else. 

i have zero desire to die young a hero. i'd rather live in obscurity and get to see my kids grow up, graduate, get married, have kids. you're kidding yourself if you think you would have floored it and risk getting blown up by an AR15

[Bill Lumbergh 7171]

Just now, Js1 said:

I can honestly say I don’t think I’d try to be a hero. I don’t have that in me 

I'd like to think that solo I would've gone for it, and family in the car I'd be out of there.  I don't think you can really know until you're faced with that impossible choice and have to make and almost instinctive decision in a split second under sudden extreme stress.

Anyone judging that driver is nothing more than an internet tough guy unless they've actually lived something like that and made the choice to put their life in danger instead of fleeing.

[SydneyCarton 48066]

4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

He could’ve been killed as he fled too if the shooter simply turned around. You floor it, you die a hero and get remembered. You run away, maybe you live but you just die some other day in obscurity like almost everyone else. 

This is the same mentality as the guys who do mass shootings. In that guy’s head he will die a hero for killing a bunch of “ethnics.” The whole mindset is fucked up. 

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

He could’ve been killed as he fled too if the shooter simply turned around. You floor it, you die a hero and get remembered. You run away, maybe you live but you just die some other day in obscurity like almost everyone else. 

What do you do for a living?

[SydneyCarton 48066]

Just now, Herbie Hancock said:

What do you do for a living?

Be wrong on the internet. He’s a pro. 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

9 minutes ago, gurt said:

What we need is a mass shooter to target politicians.  Whatever happened to a good ol assassination?  That would get the politicians off their asses.

the AZ congresswoman was shot but nothing happened.  

[mdmost 43001]

Just now, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

the AZ congresswoman was shot but nothing happened.  

The Republican congressman at the baseball game too. 

[SydneyCarton 48066]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

The Republican congressman at the baseball game too. 

As viper would say, keep sending ‘em up. 

[Stilicho 1397]

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is the same mentality as the guys who do mass shootings. In that guy’s head he will die a hero for killing a bunch of “ethnics.” The whole mindset is fucked up. 

Thank you.

The whole idea of "it would be different if I was the good guy with a gun / SUV" is the exact fucking fantasy that plays out prior to a mass shooting. 

Batman is a comic book, not a how-to manual. 

[gurt 748]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

that's a yikes for me, dawg

hey, I don't want anyone to die.  But I'd rather it be politicians than innocent folks at the mall or kids in a school.  Kind of in a 'the end justifies the means' situation at this point.

[Helobious 9451]

21 minutes ago, El Tri said:

i'll tell you right now. your balls would have shriveled up and you would have done the same thing as the driver. to think you're somehow braver than this person is idiotic.

i have zero desire to be a hero and leave my wife a widow and my kids without a father.

Is my option to bumrush the shooter on foot with no weapon? That would take unreal courage to do. I’m not that badass and would very likely run away if I could. 
 

But I’m in an already running large truck, the shooter is feet in front of me, with his back turned, oblivious? I don’t agree that it’s some insane feat of bravery to do that but I guess it depends on the person and situation.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Helobious

[Captainant 27639]

7 minutes ago, Stilicho said:

Thank you.

The whole idea of "it would be different if I was the good guy with a gun / SUV" is the exact fucking fantasy that plays out prior to a mass shooting. 

Batman is a comic book, not a how-to manual. 

Now imagine you're saying that to someone who has a combo thin blue line/punisher sticker on the back of their jacked up lot queen truck without a hint of irony. These chuds all LOVE the idea of being the good guy with the gun and fantasize about it. Then they use that fantasy as their own justification for why THEY NEED a gun - so they can defend themselves when they OBVIOUSLY are going to need to because they're such a badass sheepdog

Edited May 8, 2023 by Captainant

[CooterBrown 18004]

What we need is a mass shooter to target politicians.  Whatever happened to a good ol assassination?  That would get the politicians off their asses.

Maybe start with a slow rolling target.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

The “be a hero” fantasies always have that weird undercurrent of hoping for an opportunity to kill someone and have it be justified. 

See the how many of you carry thread. Or the gun owner thread.

[El Tri 412]

17 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Is my option to bumrush the shooter on foot with no weapon? That would take unreal courage to do. I’m not that badass and would very likely run away if I could. 
 

But I’m in an already running large truck, the shooter is feet in front of me, with his back turned, oblivious? I don’t agree that it’s some insane feat of bravery to do that but I guess it depends on the person and situation.

yeah sure bro. you're a bad ass and you would have risked your life and the life of your family to drive towards a guy with an AR15

[Brian Fantana 6682]

40 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I can honestly say I don’t think I’d try to be a hero. I don’t have that in me to take a life and put myself in danger of being mowed down by the gun man 

I lean this way but I just don't know for sure. I've been in a crisis situation (armed robbery of a convenience store with no obvious escape routes, no one got hurt so not as serious as a mass shooting) before and managed to keep my cool, but you just never know what adrenaline is going to nudge you to do in the moment.

These clowns that proudly proclaim how they'd take the shooter down either have 100% never been in a life or death situation, or are veterans without a lot of common sense.

[YGIFS 19449]

Probability matrix:  He's got a pistol and you're driving solo, I'd bet 10-20% would try to take him out.  Pistol/kids or AR15/solo/kids---number drops to less than 1%.  Never mind the extremely high chance driving a 6000 pound vehicle at full throttle in a crowded parking lot jacked outta your mind on adrenaline...your probably just adding to the death count at that point.  

Remember how in early Covid, deniers/downplayers were saying, "Lots of the dead people were probably gonna die anyway of old age, cancer, diabetes, etc.  So we don't need all this mitigation bullshit." ??  I know we all remember hearing some version of that, no point in denying it.

What if we took this outstanding logic and applied it to mass shootings to deflect from the real issues (which we're getting really fucking good at btw)? 

"Look I'm not trading my lifestyle since most of those kids were gonna die of something else anyway like childhood diabetes, cancer, drugs, etc."  (or in this case, a Denali accident)  

 

[gmr548 16576]

46 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

I’ve binged this thread on a flight from Miami, and I notice that this comment not only wasn’t answered correctly, it was mostly ignored. And honestly it deserves some thought and consideration in part of this fucking process. 
 

the correct answer is that those countries are all majority, seriously majority, white. 

Can you elaborate here? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Domestically, the states with the highest per capita gun death rates are as white or whiter than the nation as a whole, often significantly so (NM being the exception). Australia has a similar white/non-white ratio to the US. NZ and Canada are whiter but have sizeable minority populations (~70% white). I'm not going to go down the list - I'm sure Estonia, to stick with the example, has a homogenously white population, but of course there are fault lines based on nationality in Europe that can mimic the white/black racial divide we're used to discussing here.

[BERT 4358]

3 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

the dashcam vehicle was moving away from the suspect silver Charger even before he got out, implying that the camera was in the back windshield and car was in no position (unless he reversed) to take Garcia out. The Denali truck OTOH...

I stopped here so not sure if mentioned or not. How about the grey car that SLOWLY drives by the shooter? They had the best opportunity right in front of them! 

I was just amazed at how slow it was driving by. Crazy

[SydneyCarton 48066]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Can you elaborate here? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Domestically, the states with the highest per capita gun death rates are as white or whiter than the nation as a whole, often significantly so (NM being the exception). Australia has a similar white/non-white ratio to the US. NZ and Canada are whiter but have sizeable minority populations (~70% white). I'm not going to go down the list - I'm sure Estonia, to stick with the example, has a homogenously white population, but of course there are fault lines based on nationality in Europe that can mimic the white/black racial divide we're used to discussing here.

Slacks is saying a segment of the population wants to be armed because consciously or subconsciously they are terrified of black people. 

[Beau Vine 54209]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

I can honestly say I don’t think I’d try to be a hero. I don’t have that in me to take a life and put myself in danger of being mowed down by the gun man 

I can honestly say that I wouldn't have done anything, because there is absolutely zero chance that I would be at an outlet mall on a weekend.

[YGIFS 19449]

13 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Can you elaborate here? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Domestically, the states with the highest per capita gun death rates are as white or whiter than the nation as a whole, often significantly so (NM being the exception). Australia has a similar white/non-white ratio to the US. NZ and Canada are whiter but have sizeable minority populations (~70% white). I'm not going to go down the list - I'm sure Estonia, to stick with the example, has a homogenously white population, but of course there are fault lines based on nationality in Europe that can mimic the white/black racial divide we're used to discussing here.

I think he's saying they don't have anywhere near our levels of gun violence because their citizens are white?  As you point out about our states, the whiter---the deadlier.  I don't think he realized the chart I cited about "countries with lowest levels of gun violence" doesn't take into account race, but does take into account guns/capita in those countries as a strong correlation.  

5 minutes ago, BERT said:

I stopped here so not sure if mentioned or not. How about the grey car that SLOWLY drives by the shooter? They had the best opportunity right in front of them! 

I was just amazed at how slow it was driving by. Crazy

I noticed that too.  I'm assuming couldn't hear what was happening with loud music, was just looking off in another direction, looking down at their phone (most likely), or realized it and was in literal shock and took their foot off the gas.  

[Brisketexan 105082]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

These people wearing RWDS patches are featured speakers at CPAC and take pictures with our senators and commit acts of terror on their local communities. A key feature of stochastic terrorism is to incite the slim minority of people who ARE deeply broken into an unspeakable and horrific act of violence. 

Either on the capitol steps beating in the head of a police officer, or in a blood soaked outlet mall in Allen, RWDS patches are worn by people who are watching the same radicalization and hate apparatus. 

QFMFT.

It's this simple.  It's not that a MAJORITY of the right is radicalized to the point of committing violence.  It's that 1) ENOUGH of them are, and 2) the political apparatus on the right continues to spray gasoline on that fire.  What is happening here is terrorism, under any rational definition.  Want to know how we know?

Imagine that the speech inciting them was about "the infidels acting against Allah's law," and the violent actors were muslim.  FOX and FOX viewers would already have had an aneurism screaming about how we have to deal with "these terrorist ragheads!"  You know it.  I know it.  Even the rightwingers here know it.  They just won't admit it.  Because who wants to admit they are supporters of a terrorist movement?

[Hefeweizen 5310]

So now we’re down to hoping the shooters go after someone we don’t like?  This is fucking healthy…

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

8 minutes ago, BERT said:

I stopped here so not sure if mentioned or not. How about the grey car that SLOWLY drives by the shooter? They had the best opportunity right in front of them! 

I was just amazed at how slow it was driving by. Crazy

could be, was in the field of fire and maybe even shot. 

[Js1 85296]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I can honestly say that I wouldn't have done anything, because there is absolutely zero chance that I would be at an outlet mall on a weekend.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

54 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The “be a hero” fantasies always have that weird undercurrent of hoping for an opportunity to kill someone and have it be justified. 

There are millions and millions of Americans that are so full of hate and fear that deep down they actually want to kill another human being.

[956 Worldwide 34704]

1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

If you have to train people to use a vehicle as a weapon, it's already too late. We should be training how to perform an ocular patdown and eliminate the risk before it becomes a problem. 

It’s not even how civilians are trained. I’ve HAD aggressive evasive driver training.  To include the right way to ram a blockade vehicle and evade roadside ambushes. The training is “get off the X,” the fastest and safest way possible. It’s not “crash the fuck into the X.”

[closetohumping 17435]

1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I'd like to think that solo I would've gone for it, and family in the car I'd be out of there.  I don't think you can really know until you're faced with that impossible choice and have to make and almost instinctive decision in a split second under sudden extreme stress.

Anyone judging that driver is nothing more than an internet tough guy unless they've actually lived something like that and made the choice to put their life in danger instead of fleeing.

I'm gone if my kids are in the car.  Solo, I'm honestly not sure what I'd do.  I'd like to think I'd ram that fucker, but who knows?

[conVINCEd 21469]

8 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I can honestly say that I wouldn't have done anything, because there is absolutely zero chance that I would be at an outlet mall on a weekend.

I can’t believe there are people who still go to stores to buy things.

[Fondren & Main 6703]

I’ve got an idea, how about instead of making insinuations and calling other posters names, let’s call our local politicians to effect change.  Ted Cruz won’t answer, but Colin Allred will and has responded to me in the past.

[Surly Bevo 24908]

I’m baffled that some of you think that most people just going about their Saturday out shopping and in their own heads are going to even recognize what is happening fast enough when a gun starts going off in the middle of a concrete parking lot reverberating off concrete walls to ascertain a target and make a kill or be killed decision in any meaningful amount of time.

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

Is my option to bumrush the shooter on foot with no weapon? That would take unreal courage to do. I’m not that badass and would very likely run away if I could. 
 
But I’m in an already running large truck, the shooter is feet in front of me, with his back turned, oblivious? I don’t agree that it’s some insane feat of bravery to do that but I guess it depends on the person and situation.

What do you do for a living? What is your profession?

[BERT 4358]

16 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I think he's saying they don't have anywhere near our levels of gun violence because their citizens are white?  As you point out about our states, the whiter---the deadlier.  I don't think he realized the chart I cited about "countries with lowest levels of gun violence" doesn't take into account race, but does take into account guns/capita in those countries as a strong correlation.  

I noticed that too.  I'm assuming couldn't hear what was happening with loud music, was just looking off in another direction, looking down at their phone (most likely), or realized it and was in literal shock and took their foot off the gas.  

In todays age, people have not paying attention down to a science. 

[BERT 4358]

16 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

could be, was in the field of fire and maybe even shot. 

My luck i'd miss him and he'd end up right by my door

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Oh, you still let your daughters go to the mall, and by themselves to boot? After this news? Well I guess that’s a choice. 

Without my wife there?  No. They don’t go anyway - they go to smaller shopping areas in HP and UP.  I was just was thinking of reasons I’d ever be there because I detest large shopping malls. Not sure the point of your post. I’m sure it was awesome. 

[Stilicho 1397]

5 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

I’ve got an idea, how about instead of making insinuations and calling other posters names, let’s call our local politicians to effect change.  Ted Cruz won’t answer, but Colin Allred will and has responded to me in the past.

This sarcasm?

The governor of your state, when faced with the statistics that his constituents want tighter gun control laws, said "nah bro, it's mental health". Yesterday.

The governor of my state cosplayed hunting an active shooter in a public school within the last year.

Do you think we, especially those of us with kids, haven't tried talking to our fucking local politicians?

[HRSchenker 2268]

3 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I’m baffled that some of you think that most people just going about their Saturday out shopping and in their own heads are going to even recognize what is happening fast enough when a gun starts going off in the middle of a concrete parking lot reverberating off concrete walls to ascertain a target and make a kill or be killed decision in any meaningful amount of time.

I have the same mindset. If I see a guy in tactical gear there will be part of me that thinks he might be police and that's a fight I'm not looking for on a Saturday afternoon

[Deej 76756]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

the correct answer is that those countries are all majority, seriously majority, white.

Pretty sure this is the solution the leaders of this state are hoping for. 

[BrickHorn 18217]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

that's a yikes for me, dawg

Agreed. Calling for more violence (and political violence, at that) is way fucking over the line. 

[956 Worldwide 34704]

17 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

What do you do for a living? What is your profession?

It is a sobering thing to see what a high-velocity rifle round will do to a car or truck. If it doesn’t hit the engine block, it’s going clean through it and whatever is inside. 

[Chooky 13307]

The hypothetical hero. The man who elaborates on the things he might have done in the situation he was never involved with in the first place. Everyone of these imaginary brave citizens should be rewarded with the medal of pretend honor. Remember them. Hold their memory in the highest form of sarcastic reverence. And thank them for all the things they never did. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

i've been in panicked situations before and my response in retrospect every time has been embarrassing.  the first three seconds each time has been to do something that is irrelevant, unhelpful, and incomprehensible.  

 

we're looking at this now knowing what is about to happen, full recognition, option tree all mapped out.  it's a lot harder in real time. 

[Helobious 9451]

18 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

What do you do for a living? What is your profession?

Its not military or law enfcement related and I don’t see how that’s relevant. Anyone is capable of being brave. I’m not out here saying I’m Rambo or that I’d for sure do the right thing and take action, but I think I’d be capable of it in the right moment. 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

the best thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy in a truck 

[Chooky 13307]

3 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Its not military or law enfcement related and I don’t see how that’s relevant. Anyone is capable of being brave. I’m not out here saying I’m Rambo or that I’d for sure do the right thing and take action, but I think I’d be capable of it in the right moment. 

Don't ever apologize for being proud of the things you didn't actually do. The imaginary sacrifices you never made are things that can never be taken away from you. When the heat was on and the fat was in the fire, you articulated bravery from a chair. Thank you.