Led Zeppelin

[G650 14437]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:13 PM, Gil Bang said:

I like Zep, but it's time that we all admit that about 30% of their stuff just fucking sucks.  Unlistenable, horrible shit.  Like flip the channel and hope "light my fire" from The Doors is on.  Just that terrible, horrible, bad. 

 

Mr. Bang, what you just said is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever heard.

 

Probably the defining feature of Led Zeppelin is that literally almost all their songs are quality. More than the Beatles, Stones, or anyone. Go look at basically any Stones and Beatles album and there's anywhere from 3 to 5 real top shelf songs, then a bunch of filler. Then go look at Led Zeppelin IV. I remember getting the box set when it came out in 90 or 91, and I was just gobsmacked there were 4 CDs of straight awesome songs.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 7:50 AM, Chad Fuck said:

Gil, read the room my man.


By the way, I like Hot Dog in that I find Brits tongue in cheek attempts at country amusing. Much like the Stones Dear Doctor. Plus the Hot Dog riff is fun to play.

Hot Dog is a hilariously awesome tune. My first band in high school used to play it

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

Now that opening riff is going to be in my head all day.

[G650 14437]

8 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Now that opening riff is going to be in my head all day.

You're welcome.

 

I mean In Through the Out Door is probably the best example of Led Zeppelin's quality in a way. It's pretty widely considered the weakest studio album, yet it has In the Evening, Fool in the Rain, I'm Gonna Crawl, South Bound Suarez, Hot Dog and All of My Love on it. lol. The only weak song is Carouselambra. It's more substantial than most bands entire careers.

Edited August 19, 2022 by G650

[YGIFS 19458]

I've heard some crazy critiques of Led Zeppelin, but even people that don't listen to them at all would be visibly confused to read that 30% of their songs are crap.  There's maybe a half dozen Zeppelin songs over 10+ albums that I skip past.  

Listen to the album "Coda."  outtakes and cutting room floor recordings.  Their "weakest" material, and it's still probably one of the 100 greatest rock albums of all time.  

Every few years, I go back and dive into the whole catalogue and am absolutely stunned by how well the music still stands up today.  35 years after I started listening to them and I'm still unpacking all the little subtleties and recording tricks and instrument gaming that they invented out of thin air.  Basically disbanded over 40 years ago and they continue to stand apart from all other rock 'n roll.  

[Deej 77805]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

I remember getting the box set when it came out in 90 or 91, and I was just gobsmacked there were 4 CDs of straight awesome songs.

And they had to leave out a ton of great songs to get it down to 4 CDs, eventually releasing another 2 disc set.

[alincoln 2391]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

Go look at basically any Stones album and there's anywhere from 3 to 5 real top shelf songs, then a bunch of filler.

The Stones have at least five albums with no filler (Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile and Some Girls).  Zeppelin has six.  Massive difference there.

[G650 14437]

3 minutes ago, alincoln said:

The Stones have at least five albums with no filler (Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile and Some Girls).  Zeppelin has six.  Massive difference there.

The Stones are my all time favorite band, and those are their best albums, and literally half of them or more are filler.

[alincoln 2391]

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

The Stones are my all time favorite band, and those are their best albums, and literally half of them or more are filler.

Of those albums?  Insane

[G650 14437]

18 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Of those albums?  Insane

Of their whole catalog and those albums. By picking the the Stones best works you are literally proving my point, Led Zeppelins percentage is unmatched. You are tossing out 3/4 of their catalog just to get within shouting distance.

[Pescado_Rojo 19583]

3 hours ago, G650 said:

 

Mr. Bang, what you just said is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever heard.

 

Probably the defining feature of Led Zeppelin is that literally almost all their songs are quality. More than the Beatles, Stones, or anyone. Go look at basically any Stones and Beatles album and there's anywhere from 3 to 5 real top shelf songs, then a bunch of filler. Then go look at Led Zeppelin IV. I remember getting the box set when it came out in 90 or 91, and I was just gobsmacked there were 4 CDs of straight awesome songs.

 

Hot Dog is a hilariously awesome tune. My first band in high school used to play it

I had a conversation with a buddy over several whiskeys a couple months ago about Zep IV. Imagine you're a teenager in November '71. You come home from the record store with Zep IV, smoke some reefer in the car with your buddy on the way home, then head to your room and drop the needle on the record and have your mind blown. Right about the time your buzz starts to peak, the opening strains of Stairway come on and your life changes forever. That's got to be one of those "I remember where I was the firs time I heard..." moments.  

[G650 14437]

6 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I had a conversation with a buddy over several whiskeys a couple months ago about Zep IV. Imagine you're a teenager in November '71. You come home from the record store with Zep IV, smoke some reefer in the car with your buddy on the way home, then head to your room and drop the needle on the record and have your mind blown. Right about the time your buzz starts to peak, the opening strains of Stairway come on and your life changes forever. That's got to be one of those "I remember where I was the firs time I heard..." moments.  

[Deej 77805]

But you probably had an idea what Zeppelin was about by that point. Imagine buying Led Zeppelin I on January 12, 1969 and dropping the needle on it for the first time and this comes out the speakers:

 

[alincoln 2391]

16 minutes ago, G650 said:

Of their whole catalog and those albums. By picking the the Stones best works you are literally proving my point, Led Zeppelins percentage is unmatched. You are tossing out 3/4 of their catalog just to get within shouting distance.

I was merely objecting to your statement that I quoted.  No one is going to argue that the Stones' overall body of work doesn't contain a bunch of shit.  That said, the Stones' glory period was basically devoid of filler, much like Zeppelin's.  Zeppelin also benefits from Page working through his growing pains before the Zeppelin era and breaking up as they were declining. 

[G650 14437]

3 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Zeppelin also benefits from Page working through his growing pains before the Zeppelin era and breaking up as they were declining. 

I have no disagreement with this at all. They got the zenith of his prowess.

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

I've heard some crazy critiques of Led Zeppelin, but even people that don't listen to them at all would be visibly confused to read that 30% of their songs are crap.  There's maybe a half dozen Zeppelin songs over 10+ albums that I skip past.  
Listen to the album "Coda."  outtakes and cutting room floor recordings.  Their "weakest" material, and it's still probably one of the 100 greatest rock albums of all time.  
Every few years, I go back and dive into the whole catalogue and am absolutely stunned by how well the music still stands up today.  35 years after I started listening to them and I'm still unpacking all the little subtleties and recording tricks and instrument gaming that they invented out of thin air.  Basically disbanded over 40 years ago and they continue to stand apart from all other rock 'n roll.  

I’m still amazed that “Hey, Hey What Can I Do” wasn’t able to be used anywhere besides being the B side to Immigrant Song. I know that they couldn’t really fit it on LZIII, but it’s a better track than “Hats Off To (Roy) Harper” is. The only other album it really “fits” with is IV, and you can’t kick out anything there for it (maybe “Four Sticks”, but I like that track).

[Deej 77805]

Yeah, but being unavailable really made it a treat when you got to hear it. I remember calling in a request to the radio station so I could record it on cassette.

[G650 14437]

43 minutes ago, Deej said:

Yeah, but being unavailable really made it a treat when you got to hear it. I remember calling in a request to the radio station so I could record it on cassette.

That's actually how I got The Ocean for the first time. Local station played two Zep songs at 6pm every weekday and I would be ready with the tape deck

[Deej 77805]

Every rock station had "Get the Led Out" at the top of some hour, daily. 

[G650 14437]

Just now, Deej said:

Every rock station had "Get the Led Out" at the top of some hour, daily. 

Yep. 106.9 here had the 5 o'clock Zep Set

[tbone_ 14438]

Every rock station had "Get the Led Out" at the top of some hour, daily. 

It’s a ritual that should see a resurgence.

[YGIFS 19458]

9 hours ago, Deej said:

Every rock station had "Get the Led Out" at the top of some hour, daily. 

This.  Me and my co-hosts came up with a corny twist on it "Led's Do This!" No matter the featured artist or other show topics that night, we would play a Zeppelin song at the top of the hour at 8, 9, and then right before sign-off.  There were only about a dozen songs we wouldn't touch because they were shit, but usually because of length.  And this was even before the boxed set came out, it was just straight vinyl.  Shit, I don't even think we had a few of their albums on the stacks actually.  

And yes, the Stones, the Beatles, the Who, et. al.  A number of great rock 'n roll bands had great stretches of great albums with almost no crap laid down.  But nobody.  Ever.  Not nobody.  Did 9 straight fucking records of the great boogie down hard rock blissfulness of Zeppelin.  Nobody.  And no one.  Ever Will.  A handful of toss-out songs.  That's it.  That's all we can debate.  14 years of recording.  9 full-length records.  And we can maybe discuss how a half dozen songs stink.  That's it.  Think about that kinda run.  Their fucking "throw-away" records are still in the parthenon of best rock albums.  That's fucking insane.  I could repackage your 10 least favorite Zeppelin songs tonight, remaster it, and call it by some other name and it'd still sell a million copies within the calendar year.  There are bands I love more.  But unless you're fucking insane, there is no other rock 'n roll band that put as high a quality of product as Led Zeppelin did.  If somebody is gonna match their feat of 9 records of 90% A-grade quality, you let me know so I can invest in them.  I didn't even realize it was up for debate.  They are the rock benchmark and everybody else is just here for our general amusement.

[noharleyyet 2864]

Page's cascading Stairway interlude had me much the same as SRV did with TX Flood's intro. Was a WTF just happened moment from the gitgo..

[tbone_ 14438]

Sometime during the early 80s my dad popped a cassette in his car when we were going somewhere and said check this shit out.

I just sat there in awe as Love Struck Baby ripped me a new asshole. Then Pride and Joy staggered me. And THEN Texas Flood completely knocked me out of the ring. Never been the same since.

Much the same as a few years prior when I put the needle down on side 1 of Led Zep IV. Hey hey momma said the way you move, gonna make you sweat gonna make you groove! Never the same after that either.

[Deej 77805]

So, the moment when you learned that a big-legged woman ain't got no soul? 

[tbone_ 14438]

Precisely

[G650 14437]

20 hours ago, YGIFS said:

There are bands I love more.

Yeah this post is basically it. And Zep are not my favorite band, they aren't even top three or maybe five.

 

But the quality of their output is so consistent it's staggering. I don't know any other modern artists would are even in the same ballpark from that standpoint.

[YGIFS 19458]

6 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yeah this post is basically it. And Zep are not my favorite band, they aren't even top three or maybe five.

 

But the quality of their output is so consistent it's staggering. I don't know any other modern artists would are even in the same ballpark from that standpoint.

To be fair, a big part of that staggering consistency is they disbanded after Bonzo and probably left the global rock stage at the right time.  If they had hung on and made another 9 albums, they'd have plenty of crap songs to be discarded.  

[Deej 77805]

The production value was amazing, too. The sound on those albums doesn't sound old, unlike a lot of stuff from that era. 

[YGIFS 19458]

Yeah, I remember still reading that whole chapter in "Hammer of the Gods" about Page's meticulous approach to the studio, sound, equipment, remastering, etc.  and I thought, "Big whoop, the music's fucking awesome...he could just use a tape recorder and turn it up to 11."  Then I got a little older and more serious about music.  I was never recorded, but spent some time in recording studios with some decently well known bands, and really began to appreciate his attention to the minutia of sound and air. 

His production quality and approach almost perfectly stylized and reflected the song from the tuning to shift of microphone locations around the drums (often with Bonzo's input) to the use of electronics/synthesizing/etc.  Zeppelin didn't have a Quincy Jones or George Martin or Phil Spector in there truly guiding the sound.    I'm sure I'm underselling Peter Grant a bit, but he was not talented musically.  He was good at money, booking, and beating people.  I know he's technically listed but from what I've gathered he was in studio and on the records in name only and was busy drinking and getting drugs for Page too fuel his all-night mixing sessions.  Page also heavily credits his sound engineer.  Can't remember the guy's name but they were good friends since middle school.  Together, they created a sonic vibe that so delightfully complimented the source songwriting.  Also helped the four guys were probably among the 5 best to touch their respective instruments in rock history. But shit, I could listen to Page talk about just guitar tuning and pickup manipulation for certain arrangements of certain songs for hours.  

Last thing I'll rave about Page for.  Think about this.  One half of the probably one of the Top 3 songwriting duos in rock history.  One of the 5 or so greatest all-around rock guitar players of all-time.  Those two things alone and then oh yeah, also had to smack heroin for ten years so he could stay up after the other guys passed out drunk and reinvent the way rock was recorded and produced as maybe one of the best 3 rock producers in history.  Only thing poor bastard couldn't do was sing to save his life, or date age-appropriate women I guess.  And cherry on top, he along with Grant ensures that Led Zeppelin had more creative control and financial control over their material than almost any other big name band of the era.  He was an addict, but he set them up for success at every turn, wrote the songs, played the shit out of the guitar, recorded it beautifully, and mixed it into the sublime.  And kept control to release it on their terms for decades to follow.  Not bad for a guy with almost no formal music or business or engineering education or training. 

I often wonder why he just didn't seem to have much music left in his tank after Bonham died.  I mean, we know about the Firm, and Paul Rodgers, and one solo album and then the brief world music project with Plant.  But in 40 years, I think he's been a man with no country.  He was truly destined to play with those three guys and only those three guys, and make music history.  I think he was just lost without Plant and Bonham, and to an extent Jones.  Here's to hoping he has something left in the tank to share with the world before he gets any older. .   

 

[tbone_ 14438]

Well when you put it that way…

[G650 14437]

7 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

  Page also heavily credits his sound engineer.  Can't remember the guy's name but they were good friends since middle school. 

I would guess you are talking about Glyn Johns, who has know Page since school days.

[Deej 77805]

Johns was a legend. 

[Deej 77805]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

I often wonder why he just didn't seem to have much music left in his tank after Bonham died

Kenneth Anger put a curse on him for leaving him hanging on the Lucifer Rising soundtrack.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Deej

[Deej 77805]

All bullshit. Dude was creatively tapped out. 

[YGIFS 19458]

Just now, Deej said:

All bullshit. Dude was creatively tapped out. 

That may have been part of it.   I think it was a cocktail of he wasn't the same songwriter he was with Plant and he was a mature enough musician to recognize that.  Why diminish the greatest 9-album run in rock history with "Radioactive II: Plutonium Boogaloo."  He suffered immensely at the death of Bonham.  Music was changing radically in the late 70's (punk, folk, garage bands), to the electro-MTV era of early 80's.  And Page saw that in spades.  Plus he needed time to heal from years of addiction.  And last but not least, as we've discussed...the man literally left it all on the sound booth floor.  He had not much left in the tank. 

I think when rock swings back around 20 years later, had Page been surrounded with his bandmates again and Jason, they coulda gotten back after it.  But by that time, they're middle-age or older, families, Jones kinda resented he and Plant, and Plant was very content with his solo stuff plus really cool and original collaborations.  What Robert still has left in the tank is remarkable.  It's hard to listen to him and not draw the parallels to Zeppelin stuff, but he has done really original and creative work in the last 35 years.  Sure a lot of filler on many records, but he's got a brilliant set of about 20-30 songs that hint of Zeppelin, stand out on their own, and I love to hear the timelessness of.  Another story for another time... 

[Deej 77805]

I have some issues with Plant. In the 80s he claimed he needed to move on from Zep and didn't want to reunite. Then he releases Now and Zen and the biggest song samples some of Page's biggest riffs from Zeppelin.

OK, Robert. 

[G650 14437]

23 minutes ago, Deej said:

Johns was a legend. 

Yeah I think he only did one Zeppelin album though. Eddie Kramer did one or two, and Andy Johns, Glyns younger brother did several. But Glyn is the one who knew Page at school age.

 

Randomly, I'm rereading Glyns memoir right now, Sound Man.

[Deej 77805]

I remember reading Keef told Page to get a couple more guitarists to make his life easier during live shows. 

Page finally did with The Black Crowes. 

[tbone_ 14438]

I remember reading Keef told Page to get a couple more guitarists to make his life easier during live shows. 
Page finally did with The Black Crowes. 

That cd is seriously bad ass

[jimmyjazz 47127]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:19 AM, Pescado_Rojo said:

I had a conversation with a buddy over several whiskeys a couple months ago about Zep IV. Imagine you're a teenager in November '71. You come home from the record store with Zep IV, smoke some reefer in the car with your buddy on the way home, then head to your room and drop the needle on the record and have your mind blown. Right about the time your buzz starts to peak, the opening strains of Stairway come on and your life changes forever. That's got to be one of those "I remember where I was the firs time I heard..." moments.  

Replace "November '71" with "February '78" and "Led Zeppelin" with "Van Halen" . . . and you just described me and my buddies.  We weren't even stoned.

[G650 14437]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

We weren't even stoned

What the hell is wrong with y'all

[Chad Fuck 18134]

What the hell is wrong with y'all

High on the music my dude.

[Deej 77805]

[dcar00 14946]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:32 AM, alincoln said:

I was merely objecting to your statement that I quoted.  No one is going to argue that the Stones' overall body of work doesn't contain a bunch of shit.  That said, the Stones' glory period was basically devoid of filler, much like Zeppelin's.  Zeppelin also benefits from Page working through his growing pains before the Zeppelin era and breaking up as they were declining. 

This is the way I look a the stones and zeppelin.  music really changed in 1967 with Hendrix Are You Exprienced and Sgt Peppers(yes I know Beatles pioneered a bit before that).  The Album format really came into its own.

zeppelin from 68-1982 8 albums + Coda

stones from 68-1981 - 10 albums beggars, let it bleed, exile, sticky fingers, goats head soup, IORR, Black and blue, Some Girls, Emotional Rescue, Tattoo You

zep wins because its really hard to pick out truly bad songs/filler while the stones had some real clunker songs.  But, when looking at the prime its reasonably close.

Page/Plant would have likely gone on to have a decent run after Coda, and not fallen off as much as the stones did post TY, but after Plant's first 2 solo and a bit of Page/Firm even they fell off.

 

[The Royal We 3100]

Every once in a while I like to try to decide what my top 5 favorite Led Zeppelin songs are.  These are not the ones that I think are the best/most famous/tightest, etc., but rather the ones that make me bob my head/play the air drums/crank it the F up when they come on. 

Current top 5, in no particular order:

The Lemon Song

The Ocean

Over the Hills and Far Away

Heartbreaker/Living Loving Maid

In My Time of Dying

 

Fuck me I love Zeppelin.  I'll go a while without listening to it and then it will come on somewhere and I think what the hell have I been doing, where have you been!?  I never really listened to them until I was a sophomore at UT and had a roommate who always threw it on.  It became a mainstay for me after that.  I love listening to Zeppelin when I'm driving because I can throw their whole catalogue on shuffle and very rarely, if ever, do I hit the skip button.

Great thread here dudes.  I'm in my office at home right now and have Zep blaring on the best speakers I've ever owned.  Life is good.

[G650 14437]

I heard The Ocean this morning. Always have a soft spot for that one, it was my first "favorite" Zep song.

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:50 AM, Chad Fuck said:

Gil, read the room my man.


By the way, I like Hot Dog in that I find Brits tongue in cheek attempts at country amusing. Much like the Stones Dear Doctor. Plus the Hot Dog riff is fun to play.

I'd say the Stones straight up made some incredible country music.  Nothing "amusing" about Wild Horses, Dead Flowers, Let It Bleed, etc.

[The Royal We 3100]

The drums in The Ocean, sheesh. 

I can't avoid flailing my arms around like I know what I'm doing when that song comes on.

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

I'm not sure if it's a controversial opinion in here (I've found it to be elsewhere), but "Hey Hey What Can I Do" is probably my favorite Zep song.  I'm not saying it's the greatest.  It's just the one that I will put on a jukebox in any situation and in any crowd.

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

14 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Every once in a while I like to try to decide what my top 5 favorite Led Zeppelin songs are.  These are not the ones that I think are the best/most famous/tightest, etc., but rather the ones that make me bob my head/play the air drums/crank it the F up when they come on. 

Current top 5, in no particular order:

The Lemon Song

The Ocean

Over the Hills and Far Away

Heartbreaker/Living Loving Maid

In My Time of Dying

 

Fuck me I love Zeppelin.  I'll go a while without listening to it and then it will come on somewhere and I think what the hell have I been doing, where have you been!?  I never really listened to them until I was a sophomore at UT and had a roommate who always threw it on.  It became a mainstay for me after that.  I love listening to Zeppelin when I'm driving because I can throw their whole catalogue on shuffle and very rarely, if ever, do I hit the skip button.

Great thread here dudes.  I'm in my office at home right now and have Zep blaring on the best speakers I've ever owned.  Life is good.

Top 5...

Hey Hey What Can I Do

Over The Hills and Far Away

Living Loving Maid

Tangerine (gimme that Brit country)

Good Times Bad Times

 

I fucking love The Lemon Song, but it might be the biggest rip off they did.  Still fucking slams.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Al_4_ISU