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What's happening in the Methodist Church?

jdhorn92

By jdhorn92
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23471

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

So there are approximate ~300k churches in USA.

there are ~600k homeless ppl in USA.

so if every church took on the Christian duty and provided a home”ish” for 2 people, there would be very little homelessness in USA, why aren't they? Didn’t that hippy dude preach helping another person etc.

 

If you just want to whine on the internet, that is certainly your right.  And you will land good and well placed rhetorical jabs. 

But if you want to actually do anything, here are a few places to start:

https://mlf.org/

https://mlf.org/community-first/

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23471

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

For every “good Christian” y’all site, there is a Johnny Sack or Ana on the other side of the ledger.

Cite. 

  

1 hour ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Christianity is a net negative.

Case (12 Packages)

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gengs1 said:

So there are approximate ~300k churches in USA.

there are ~600k homeless ppl in USA.

so if every church took on the Christian duty and provided a home”ish” for 2 people, there would be very little homelessness in USA, why aren't they? Didn’t that hippy dude preach helping another person etc.

I'm not aware of any homeless shelters around here that don't have a religious affiliation. But I'm not in a big city, so I can't speak to how things work out there. But I would surmise that what you are asking for is already happening in many places and the homelessness problem we as a society are dealing with is a bit more complicated than that.

Edited by NotActuallyALonghorn
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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6577

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Posted

I never saw it in the Bible, but what did the people, who weren’t Christians, doing about his illegal immigration during the census? Did they invoke title 42? The first 2.5 years it worked great from the other guy, right?

Were there non-Christians saying go back home? I just wasn’t alive then and hoping for some perspective? What happened to Christians who crossed the Holy land?

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BigDHornfan

BigDHornfan 6548

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Posted
9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, pretty ironic.  The UMC goes out and missionaries Africa, creating lots of UMC churches there.  They decide to liberalize, or vote to do it, and the African UMCs are the ones that blow it up.

I had a vague recollection that you had a connection to Paul Rasmussen?  I'm pleased but a little surprised that HPUMC hasn't defected.

But Mark Craig brought in a younger demo than a lot of similar churches have, so I guess the olds got drowned out.  And, I'm not sure that many of the olds think like olds.  But my Mom used to say there were a lot of recovering Baptists there.

One of my proudest moments, probably 20-30 years ago, I was at my parents Sunday School class and one of those recovering Baptists started making an announcement about some "political" stuff about gays or something, and my Dad shouted him down, basically told him to STFU.

 

I worked for both Mark and Paul during my time of employment at HPUMC.  
Mark was/is one of the best human beings I have ever known.  Paul is a good minister.

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'stache

'stache 21816

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

The Mormons are entering the chat for other reasons.

 

So basically what the Catholics and the Vatican Bank have been doing for a few hundred years? How about mega churches? They are for profit businesses, full stop. Should be taxed as such.

Edited by 'stache
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F250

F250 28777

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In typical Methodist fashion our local UMC church took a 6 month discernment period for the church to assess staying or leaving. That was over 7 months ago and now we are in the considering the thoughts from the discernment phase. Basically, we need to now think about what we already thought about.

 

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JBJ

JBJ 3654

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Posted (edited)
On 5/15/2023 at 1:30 AM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not aware of any homeless shelters around here that don't have a religious affiliation. But I'm not in a big city, so I can't speak to how things work out there. But I would surmise that what you are asking for is already happening in many places and the homelessness problem we as a society are dealing with is a bit more complicated than that.

It is this.  400-500k of those homeless won't be homeless in a year or two.  We actually do a decent job turning homeless people into not-homeless people (thanks in no small part to christian-lead charities and initiatives).  The growing homeless population has more to do with the next wave being larger than the last than it does with chronic homelessness.

Edited by JBJ
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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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Posted
On 5/15/2023 at 3:04 PM, F250 said:

In typical Methodist fashion our local UMC church took a 6 month discernment period for the church to assess staying or leaving. That was over 7 months ago and now we are in the considering the thoughts from the discernment phase. Basically, we need to now think about what we already thought about.

 

You are having a meeting to discuss the upcoming meeting. Do you even corporate?

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30239

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Posted
On 5/15/2023 at 2:04 PM, F250 said:

In typical Methodist fashion our local UMC church took a 6 month discernment period for the church to assess staying or leaving. That was over 7 months ago and now we are in the considering the thoughts from the discernment phase. Basically, we need to now think about what we already thought about.

 

 

Presbyterians can’t have a committee until they form an exploratory committee to research it. 

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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3431

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12 hours ago, JBJ said:

It is this.  400-500k of those homeless won't be homeless in a year or two.  We actually do a decent job turning homeless people into not-homeless people (thanks in no small part to christian-lead charities and initiatives).  The growing homeless population has more to do with the next wave being larger than the last than it does with chronic homelessness.

I am not an expert on the homeless problem but you are saying that of the 600k homeless population, >2/3 of those will be homed in a year or two? That is surprising to me, but if pressed I wouldn't have a different number to defend. I would have guessed closer to 20% but like I said, not well educated on this issue. Is there a good place to go for data like this?

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dcbc

dcbc 14484

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I am not an expert on the homeless problem but you are saying that of the 600k homeless population, >2/3 of those will be homed in a year or two? That is surprising to me, but if pressed I wouldn't have a different number to defend. I would have guessed closer to 20% but like I said, not well educated on this issue. Is there a good place to go for data like this?

Of those who have been "homed," how many of them still are "homed" after a year.  My wife does a lot of work with a local nonprofit and previously was active at our Methodist church (we withdrew our membership when it went MAGA methodist last year and now are visiting Episcopalians) in getting people off the streets and into housing.  If the organization is paying for the housing long term and doesn't expect anything from the occupant, it is more likely to stick.  But if they are trying to "rehabilitate" the person, i.e., get them to get a G.E.D., find a job, take over some of the bills, etc., the outcome can be less certain.  Suffice it to say, there are many ways to help the homeless.  Some ways can be more frustrating to those helping than others.  Obviously, it's better to have a roof over your head than to live on the streets.  But for those who have been on the streets for a long period of time, the transition can be very difficult. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30239

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On 5/14/2023 at 11:06 PM, Anastasis said:

Cite. 

  

Case (12 Packages)

I guess it depends on whether you were one of the millions of people who died fighting about the nature of the Eucharist. Or in a pogrom.  Or in the Inquisition. Or on a Crusade.  Or in childbirth because you could not get an abortion.  

He certainly might be wrong, but the picture above is regarded.  Because you can’t argue the benefit of salvation in the discussion.   Saying “…but you get the benefit of my flavor theology” is not a benefit to those followers of other theologies or to non-believers. 

The concept of democracy was stifled and shit on for a thousand years by the Divine Right of Kings.   Charles had a coronation because - historically - that showed God put you on the throne, and the subjects have to obey or be apostate. It was a thing. 

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dcbc

dcbc 14484

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Posted
2 hours ago, irishtexan said:

I assume those churches taking a hard line stand against homosexuality are also advocating for the execution of any church member that has been divorced, as is proscribed by the bible. Right? 

As well as any woman who leaves her hut during her monthly.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23471

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5 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I guess it depends on whether you were one of the millions of people who died fighting about the nature of the Eucharist. Or in a pogrom.  Or in the Inquisition. Or on a Crusade.  Or in childbirth because you could not get an abortion.  

He certainly might be wrong, but the picture above is regarded.  Because you can’t argue the benefit of salvation in the discussion.   Saying “…but you get the benefit of my flavor theology” is not a benefit to those followers of other theologies or to non-believers. 

The concept of democracy was stifled and shit on for a thousand years by the Divine Right of Kings.   Charles had a coronation because - historically - that showed God put you on the throne, and the subjects have to obey or be apostate. It was a thing. 

If you want to have a serious discussion along the lines of the influence of Christianity on civilization, western civilization in particular, and whether it has been a net positive or negative on the balance, certainly happy to do so. We can start with first century Roman society and trace from there through the modern day. It’ll be a fun discussion.

 

But if you just want to register trite bullshit like upthread, you’ll just get a propeller hat gif and like it. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30239

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2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

If you want to have a serious discussion along the lines of the influence of Christianity on civilization, western civilization in particular, and whether it has been a net positive or negative on the balance, certainly happy to do so. We can start with first century Roman society and trace from there through the modern day. It’ll be a fun discussion.

 

But if you just want to register trite bullshit like upthread, you’ll just get a propeller hat gif and like it. 

IOW, we can have a discussion about this topic, but only if you agree with my thought process and conclusions…because your thought process and conclusions disagree with mine, and they are not worthy of consideration?

OK.

If there was ever a single post that more accurately summed up the Ani experience, I am not aware of it. It is hard to get your condescension and I-know-more-than-you persona in a tweet length post, but you nailed it.  

I do appreciate how you are already moving the goalposts to “Western Civilization.” That rather neatly avoids the South and Central American Spanish-Catholic genocides, as well as the wonderful treatment of Caribbean and Mexican indigenous people by the church. True, the Requerimiento sounds like something you drafted (why do those idiots need to know Spanish when I know what’s best for them), but alas, that is not Western. Being dead brown pagans is not all civilization-y either. 

Theoretically, we could discuss the Western slaughter of the Cathars and Huguenots, or the Teutonic Knights slaughtering all the Baltic pagans for the greater love of God, but I decline. 

See the “you’ll just get a propeller hat gif and like it” comment.  Who can resist the chance to engage with you in honest dialogue??

I admit that your shift from “both sides” to “only my side” is slightly intriguing, but I will just sit here in my ignorance and wish I was as smart as you. 

 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23471

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25 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

IOW, we can have a discussion about this topic, but only if you agree with my thought process and conclusions…because your thought process and conclusions disagree with mine, and they are not worthy of consideration?

You are arguing against a straw man in this and everything after. It’s amazing the delusions some of you create to avoid actually engaging. 

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11484

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I have a big problem with the prosperity gospel. Namely the Osteens and Lakewood. Pray until you’re rich! 
 

It’s such a swerve from Jesus’ teachings. I have no idea how they’ve explained it away.

People are opportunistic. They’re going to make money where they can. Some of have a stomach for exploiting other Christians. Some don’t thankfully. 
 

My church dropped $80 million on a building project that we definitely didn’t need. But they could do it, so they did. I think many big churches run into the same problem. They’re not for profit so the money needs to get spent. 
 

And yet, we’re struggling to find volunteers. In most cases, your time is worth more than money. 10% of your time might be worth than 10% your income. I wish more churches accepted and embraced this. 

Edited by billfromlaketravis
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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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1 minute ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I have a big problem with the prosperity gospel. Namely the Osteens and Lakewood. Pray until you’re rich! 
 

It’s such a swerve from Jesus’ teachings. I have no idea how they’ve explained it away.

People are opportunistic. They’re going to make money where they can. Some of have a stomach for exploiting other Christian’s. Some don’t thankfully. 
 

My church dropped $80 million on a building project that we definitely didn’t need. But they could do it, so they did. I think many big churches run into the same problem. They’re not for profit so the money needs to get spent. 
 

And yet, we’re struggling to find volunteers. In most cases, your time is worth more than money. 10% of your time might be worth than 10% your income. I wish more churches accepted and embraced this. 

An $80M church is the antithesis of Christianity.  Call it a country club and pay your taxes.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11484

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5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

An $80M church is the antithesis of Christianity.  Call it a country club and pay your taxes.

Slow down buddy. That was just it to update existing facilities. The chapel was built in the the 90s. 
 

It’s excessive and unnecessary. They should have spent it on missions. I think they came into north of $60 million after GW passing and needed to spend it in a hurry. That money could have housed and fed  the homeless. It’s perplexing. I love the church and I want to stick around to change minds.

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JBJ

JBJ 3654

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I am not an expert on the homeless problem but you are saying that of the 600k homeless population, >2/3 of those will be homed in a year or two? That is surprising to me, but if pressed I wouldn't have a different number to defend. I would have guessed closer to 20% but like I said, not well educated on this issue. Is there a good place to go for data like this?

HUD tracks this stuff:

- 582,462 people experiencing homelessness in January 2022. (this was the peak for the year).

- 127,705 individuals experiencing chronic homelessness in 2022

Chronic homelessness is spending one year homeless or being homeless 4 times in 3 years.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PA/documents/HUD-PIT-by-the-numbers.pdf

Almost all economic categories are deceptive like this.  Part of it is because the language we use.  "The homeless population" is less like a group of people and something more like a categorical instance of people.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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7 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Slow down buddy. That was just it to update existing facilities.

I’m not going to slow down.  It wasn’t a new facility, it was just an $80m updating. New kitchen cabinets and appliances.  Marble in the bathrooms.  That makes it better.  Maybe a pickle ball court or two out back.  Jesus would have a heart attack at the thought of someone spending $80m to update a church.  You claim to hate the prosperity gospel, yet you enthusiastically participate in it.  It’s a social club.  Pay your taxes for being a social club.

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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Posted
4 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Depends on the structure but generally no the way you are using the term.  For example, River Oaks doesn't pay property taxes.

https://candysdirt.com/2011/10/04/dallas-country-club-real-estate-taxes-disclosure-discussion-dallas-real-estate-news/
 

I’m not going to spend a lot of time on it, but this is the first thing that popped up for me.  It would appear that DCC pays some property taxes, even though it’s probably less than they should.

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JBJ

JBJ 3654

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

https://candysdirt.com/2011/10/04/dallas-country-club-real-estate-taxes-disclosure-discussion-dallas-real-estate-news/
 

I’m not going to spend a lot of time on it, but this is the first thing that popped up for me.  It would appear that DCC pays some property taxes, even though it’s probably less than they should.

Which is kind of why I worded it the way I did.  They pay some based on non-exempt revenue (like from hosting a semipro or PGA tourney) over a certain limit.  Churches would also, but most churches don"t have that kind of side hustle.

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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Posted
We’ve already reached the “if it wasn’t for Christianity, the world would be a listing vessel full of rape and murder” portion of the show? Man, time flies when you believe in Santa Clause 

Basically. Ana is still a cunt. I’ll wait for his witty retort (maybe a funny propeller hat jpg!???)
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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

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15 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

 

Presbyterians can’t have a committee until they form an exploratory committee to research it. 

What's this? You lousy Presbies are trying to encroach upon the Baptist Church's God given right to have commitees to oversee commitees? Sounds like we need to find an Academy parking lot to sort this all out. Just remember, my daddy can beat up your daddy.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted
A difference of those though is being black or a woman was not defined as sinful behavior in the Old Testament (right next to how not to cut your hair or plant your crops) or New Testament. You are the lawyer and I haven’t brushed up on biblical texts in a couple decades, but I think the strict interpretation of sin was man-on-man sex (assuming anal but maybe bj’s and handies are part of “laying with another man”). Some thoughtful scholar should insist that lesbians and trans were not called out by Paul and should be welcomed if not encouraged. I think David and Solomon were both having orgies on the reg. 

Wait - you’re claiming the Bible didn’t portray women as sinful and lesser than men?

Excuse me while I laugh myself sick.
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13512

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Posted
On 5/19/2023 at 6:59 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

 

My church dropped $80 million on a building project that we definitely didn’t need. But they could do it, so they did. I think many big churches run into the same problem. They’re not for profit so the money needs to get spent. 
 

And yet, we’re struggling to find volunteers. In most cases, your time is worth more than money. 10% of your time might be worth than 10% your income. I wish more churches accepted and embraced this. 

The church needs people to work, and they have money that needs to be spent. Sounds like a problem and the solution. I suppose a church likes the idea of the congregation volunteering but there is nothing wrong with hiring people as well. In a sense the congregation is buying off the volunteer request by donating more. 

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