The latest get your ass back in the office story: AT&T

[rage-a-holic 4312]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

It takes you thirty minutes to park in the garage and get up the elevators? 

 

Quote

Then it's 30 minutes per day finding a parking space and getting back and forth from the parking garage to my desk.

Enter parking garage > Find parking spot > Walk to elevators > Get from elevators to desk > Get from desk to elevators > Walk to parking garage > Start car and exit parking garage

Yes, that's 30 minutes per day.

[MissingInAction 24870]

12 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Unless you’re spending the 2.5 hours you save working then it really has no effect

Lolwut? 

[rage-a-holic 4312]

5 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Lolwut? 

I don't think he understands how offices work, and that the 2.5 hours of wasted travel time is on top of the 8-12 hours you put in at the office every day.

[Laxtonto 12059]

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

[Deej 76642]

8 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

 

Enter parking garage > Find parking spot > Walk to elevators > Get from elevators to desk > Get from desk to elevators > Walk to parking garage > Start car and exit parking garage

Yes, that's 30 minutes per day.

Move faster, Hopalong. 

[rage-a-holic 4312]

Just now, Deej said:

Move faster, Hopalong. 

I don't have to, I've been working remotely 100% for 10 years and that is unlikely to change.

[Deej 76642]

1 minute ago, rage-a-holic said:

I don't have to, I've been working remotely 100% for 10 years and that is unlikely to change.

Then you are in the small percentage who probably actually do work from home when they say they are working from home. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

4 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not.

Fixed it for you. Remote work is being blamed for the overall problem of people at work. The majority of people are idiots and can’t be trusted to not play on social media. Just because people pretend to work at the office, doesn’t mean their productivity is great. These people should have been replaced before the pandemic but firing people is hard. Call it outsourcing. Blame it WFH. Fine, but the problem is the majority of people are entitled cunts that don’t like making widgets 

[Zepol87 9174]

1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

That's funny.  CBRE was my employer until Amazon kicked them off the account and brought in JLL.  CBRE is contracts and more PM centric so they don't actually know how to do anything.   JLL is a lot more engineering centric from what I see so far but a lot more militant in their standards 

We have a pretty decent PM for our LA market but on the east coast it has been shit with both of them.

90% of the shit I work on daily isn’t at my local office so fuck them trying to make me go in daily, also getting in/out downtown sucks

Edited May 17, 2023 by Zepol87

[Gene Parmesan 3993]

7 minutes ago, Deej said:

Then you are in the small percentage who probably actually do work from home when they say they are working from home. 

If Rage is in the good column, by process of elimination, the rest of us in this thread must be the slackers.  

[BabaYaga 15238]

12 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

This also does not address mentorship and talent development.  It's so much more impactful to sit down in a room with a team or individual and talk out strategy, options, etc.  It's decent enough for associates that are already developed.  It's another for someone you are trying to develop.  

[B00M 6357]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Fixed it for you. Remote work is being blamed for the overall problem of people at work. The majority of people are idiots and can’t be trusted to not play on social media. Just because people pretend to work at the office, doesn’t mean their productivity is great. These people should have been replaced before the pandemic but firing people is hard. Call it outsourcing. Blame it WFH. Fine, but the problem is the majority of people are entitled cunts that don’t like making widgets 

When you put it that way, why should any human like making widgets? 

[JMFP 1120]

3 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

If Rage is in the good column, by process of elimination, the rest of us in this thread must be the slackers.  

Yet we're all here together. At 2:30.  On Wednesday. 

[Exposition 93]

3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Because it's not easy to switch from US employees to offshore employees. You'll be spending a significant amount of time and money re-arranging your business process to accommodate the new setup, which will include lengthy periods of time for your retained US staff to learn the new flow of things. I have worked with some absolutely brilliant offshore teams, but just like the US and everywhere else, those teams are not the norm and you'll get what you pay for. The good teams are expensive. 

But this won't stop the FP&A teams from modeling a nice margin bump from offshoring which gives leadership a way to threaten the WFH crowd with it. 

[JesusSweatDuck 17780]

18 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Timezones matter more than most people realize.  

[Deej 76642]

52 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Those people should be fired for being dumbasses.

We have dumbasses who have done/said the following things out loud to co-workers:

- refer to WFH days as their "days off"

- complain that a three day weekend cost them a work from home day and they should be allowed to replace it with another day

- rave about how WFH allows them to get more personal stuff done (errands, appointments, etc.) without it eating into their personal time. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Deej

[rage-a-holic 4312]

12 minutes ago, Deej said:

Then you are in the small percentage who probably actually do work from home when they say they are working from home. 

meh. It's a fucking crapshoot. We just had a massive round of layoffs that included 5 guys I deal with on a daily basis. I've worked with some of them for 15+ years. They are always responsive, know their job and my job is now harder without them. The criteria for putting them in the layoff column was 100% "They make too much money, let's find some cheap Indians". I'm sure some slackers were canned, but I don't know of any.

Meanwhile, the admin assistant in our group probably works 20 hours a week, due to all her kids school functions, weekly sickouts and vacations. She must not make a lot.

[Wulaw Horn 19023]

14 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Yeah, all of this.  If everyone works from home then everyone is bidding to be part of the same labor pool and now you are competing against 3B people in the fee and connected world rather than whatever schlub lives in the same town as you for every job. That's not a competition that the American worker is going to win very often as our expectation of pay and french benefits are way higher than almost everywhere else in the world.  WFH would have killed the middle class white collar type in America.  I still think it does die eventually.

I'm encouraging my kids to all do something that can't be offshored or automated.  Teaching (half of teaching or more is baby sitting we will never go virtual again), nursing (CRNA like @GreenspointTexas b/c that's where the big bucks are- I'm serious) , vet, airline pilot (I know they automate the shit out of them but I don't believe mankind will ever be ok with getting on an airplane with no human in the cockpit), blue collar tradesman (that owns an HVAC company or a plumbing company or something like that where you make serious bank) something like that where you can make 100k- 300k (other than the teaching and you can make that with a side hustle during summer or the right coaching gig) and not have to have sales quotas or the like- and not have to worry about automation or the like.  Because yeah- if everything gets automated/outsourced the average American is probably fucked. 

[MissingInAction 24870]

29 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Do you even time zone, bro?

I WFH real time exactly as I would in an office setting. 

My friend who works with outsourced people across the globe has to wait 12 hours for responses from his developers then they have to wait for his.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by MissingInAction

[Trey3216 15325]

37 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Precisely 

[Sbbruin 21785]

We are office owners and developers.  All you goldbricking SOBs need to get your lazy asses back into the office STAT.

[Sbbruin 21785]

39 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Funny enough, Meta and Amazon both discussed how work from home had a significant impact on the overall productivity of new hires and current employees. One of my doc students is finishing his dissertation on the impacts of social media "addiction" in the workplace, and it follows along the same concerns. People as a whole are idiots and need more supervision than what remote work really can provide. Some people are great at remote work, but many are not. Pre-pandemic, WFH made sense in a case by case basis. This one size fits all concept is a foolish oversimplification that is just the standard gross overreaction to the pandemic and now we are seeing a major course correction back to a more functional idea of how to approach it.

What the biggest issue I see right now is if you can work from home to do your job, then why am I even employing you and instead just outsourcing your position elsewhere globally? If the IT infrastructure costs have to be there to continue to facilitate massive remote employment, there is no difference between Durham NC and Delhi. As we see a continued need to reduce overhead costs why not outsource these remote jobs that are noncritical to the company? As US labor, raw goods, and manufacturing costs continue to rise, why not outsource the jobs that can rely on a purely virtual or digital transmission environment as we now have to account for increased costs as we try to reduce the scope of the supply chain to a more local or regional footprint?

The problem with the "world is flat" phenomenon now is that if that is the case, we are now dealing with how much productivity can I get globally at what costs, and many can hire a vast number of lesser efficient employees elsewhere in bulk and still come up significantly ahead. If we are going to make the work virtual, then now I am no longer limited to a talent base and salary structure in the US or my region but instead globally. In that space, the everyday US worker will not be able to compete in a $$ per output scenario vs many other locales.

While I agree that quality of life is important for everyone, that cant come at the cost of productivity because all it does is incentivize the business to just outsource the position that is currently WFH globally.

Lots of good points.  WFH works great... for some.  Those who are wired to be productive.  But there is a large contingent who simply won't.  And scheduling 5 zooms/day doesn't increase productivity if the intent is to just keep people engaged.  But where it hits home the most is the younger generation who isn't being mentored and equally important isn't being seen and isn't interacting with superiors.  They lose out big in the long run.

[Sbbruin 21785]

From today's WSJ

Spoiler

When average city office-occupancy rates at the start of the year surpassed 50% for the first time during the pandemic, many landlords viewed this milestone as a sign that employees were finally resuming their former work habits.

Those office-usage rates barely budged as most companies settled into a hybrid work strategy that shows little sign of fading.

About 58% of companies allow employees to work a portion of their week from home, according to Scoop Technologies, a software firm that developed an index monitoring workplace strategies of close to 4,500 companies. The number of companies that require employees to be in the office full time has actually declined to 42%, from 49% three months ago, Scoop said. Employees at companies with hybrid strategies work an average of 2.5 days a week in the office. As long as unemployment remains low, workers have the leverage to entrench these policies, said Robert Sadow, Scoop’s chief executive and co-founder.

“Employees are saying we are going to push really, really hard against being required to be in the office five days a week,” Mr. Sadow said. “Most companies in the current labor market have been reluctant to push [back] that hard.”

Frustration is growing in cities that are suffering from declining real-estate values, setting the stage for lower property-tax revenue and pressuring bars, restaurants and other small businesses that rely on five-day-a-week office

Distressed sales in the office sector are rising....................... B6

workers. In New York, each employee working at home rather than going into the office costs

city businesses about $4,600 in sales annually, according to WFH Research, a think tank that tracks workplace arrangements.

Some city officials are experimenting with new policies in an effort to lure back workers. New York City Mayor Eric Adams last week announced tax incentives for office-building owners to upgrade buildings constructed before 2000, hoping that a more modern workplace would boost occupancy.

With employees spending only half the five-day workweek in the office, it isn’t surprising that office-return rates stalled out around half of pre-pandemic levels. The average office usage rate, which crossed 50% of prepandemic levels in late January, remained around there ever since, according to Kastle Systems. Kastle tracks the return-to office in 10 major U.S. markets by monitoring security-badge swipes.

Other companies using different methods to track office usage show a slightly higher return rate, but they are find-of ing that attendance has leveled off. Placer.ai, which tracks mobile-phone data, said office visitations in 11 cities as of late April were just over 60% what they were in 2019, little changed from early February. “This holding pattern seems to indicate a stalled recovery,” Placer.ai said in an April report.

In Texas, cities continue to have the highest return to office rate, in part because many businesses in the state are among those requiring workers in the office five days a week. In the first week of May, the return rates for Austin and Houston both topped 60%, according to Kastle. Most employees of Houstonbased law firm McCulloch & Miller have been back in the office five days a week since late 2020, said managing partner David Miller. Still, he said, the firm is more flexible than before the

pandemic in terms of letting workers arrive late, leave early and work from home if necessary.

Technology firms remain the most permissive for letting employees work from home, resulting in low return-to-office rates in cities such as San Francisco, Seattle and San Jose, Calif. Salesforce opened this spring its new tower in Chicago but the news was muted by the company’s plans to make up to 125,000 square feet of sublease space available in the 58-story building.

Office landlords have been encouraged this year by signs that the tech sector is finally calling some of its workers back to offices. For example, even while it has been putting space on the sublease market, Salesforce earlier this year implemented a plan to return workers to offices as many as four days a week.

Meta Platforms has continued to allow employees to work from home as much as they want. But the Facebook owner told managers this spring to stop hiring all-remote workers temporarily, which many interpreted as a hint that it might soon require some workers back in the office.

Yet financial-services companies are increasingly adopting hybrid workplace policies after leading the way in asking employees to come back full time. Currently 20% of financial- services firms require workers to be in the office five days a week, compared with 22% three months ago, according to Scoop.

 

[Wulaw Horn 19023]

26 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Do you even time zone, bro?

I WFH real time exactly as I would in an office setting. 

My friend who works with outsourced people across the globe has to wait 12 hours for responses from his developers then they have to wait for his.

 

Serious question- why aren't they just working in the middle of the night to fit into our time schedule.  If you are going to move the job to India b/c it pays $1.50 per hour go all the way and pay $2.00 an hour but require them to work 9-5 East coast time or whatever.  

[gurt 738]

 

41 minutes ago, Deej said:

We have dumbasses who have done/said the following things out loud to co-workers:

- refer to WFH days as their "days off"

- complain that a three day weekend cost them a work from home day and they should be allowed to replace it with another day

- rave about how WFH allows them to get more personal stuff done (errands, appointments, etc.) without it eating into their personal time. 

sounds like you just work at a company full of retards (what does that say about you)

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Hybrid is ideal but work from home is great too.

Managers and others that are complaining about remote work productivity have themselves to blame. You either:

1. Don’t know how to actually manage people.
2. You don’t know how to hire the right people.
3. You suck and no one wants to be near you.
4. All of the above.

[The Dog 43880]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Serious question- why aren't they just working in the middle of the night to fit into our time schedule.  If you are going to move the job to India b/c it pays $1.50 per hour go all the way and pay $2.00 an hour but require them to work 9-5 East coast time or whatever.  

you won't get anyone good with rules like that.

doesn't matter the country - you get what you pay for. 

[Trey3216 15325]

5 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Hybrid is ideal but work from home is great too.

Managers and others that are complaining about remote work productivity have themselves to blame. You either:

1. Don’t know how to actually manage people.
2. You don’t know how to hire the right people.
3. You suck and no one wants to be near you.
4. All of the above.

- Hard to manage a lot of people when you never see them

- Cheaper to let them keep working than get saddled with a lawsuit 

- So do many of the workers, and they probably shouldn't have a job anyway...but quotas!  

 

[Chewbacca 7732]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

The big CRE firms are generally diversified into multifamily, industrial, retail, medical, etc. They will take one on the chin for sure but they’ll be okay.

As it usually goes in this country, it’s the smaller firms and banks who are going to be fighting for survival.

Even for firms with performing assets, current interest rates are a kick in the nuts if they have to refi right now.

[Foosters 17769]

Take with a massive grain of salt, but some guy alleging to be a manager at JP Morgan posted the below on reddit. Its long:

Quote

If you work at JPMorgan Chase & Co. or are thinking about working at JPMC, you need to know about their employee surveillance tool called WADU. WADU is an acronym for Workforce Activity Data Utility. Every employee at JPMC has a profile in the WADU database.

I think everyone expects their employer to track them to some extent. It is pretty standard practice for employers to monitor and run analysis on things like building badge swipes and the amount of time spent connected when working from home. It has also become very common place for employers to record audio and video at the office.

WADU is on a different level. It is an artificial intelligence & machine learning system for workforce human behavior. Starting at the moment you arrive to the building, WADU is tracking you using facial and speech recognition. Most JPMC offices and branches have been outfitted with some of the best HD AV security cameras.

Whenever you are at your desk, know that there is a HD camera tracking you the entire time. WADU uses the array of HD cameras at the office to monitor all of your non-verbal body language all throughout the day. The collected information is then fed into the AI/ML system and it is used to update your WADU profile in real time.

Every manager gets access to a dashboard that lists all the metrics about their subordinates. The productivity metrics about an employee start getting updated immediately after an employee logs into the system. If the employee is at the office, two bio-metrics are available, attention/focus and stress.

The bio-metric feeds are updated from the facial and behavioral tracking. Having a bad day? Stressed about something? WADU has already noticed this and alerted your manager. Can’t focus? Not working at your usual pace? WADU has already noticed this and alerted your manager. Did something you normally don’t do? It’s possible WADU flagged it as suspicious and alerted your manager.

WADU is also why they are pushing RTO or “return to office” so hard. Upper management does not care if some employees are more productive when they are working from home. They want everyone back in the office as much as possible so that their WADU profiles are being refined. Enhancing their insight into you is more important to them than better productivity from working from home.

A lot of teams are now required to come in two to three days per week. Director level and higher are required to come in four to five days per week. Upper management wants to see everyone at all levels back in the office five days a week. They have invested millions into the WADU system, and they want to get a return on that investment. That only happens whenever people are in the office as much as possible.

WADU is also watching and listening whenever you are working from home. If you installed Citrix Workplace on your own computer, and you permitted Citrix to access your web camera and microphone after login, you have connected those devices to WADU. If you are using an issued Chromebook, those permissions are already conveniently accepted for you.

You’ll notice that your web camera will flash right after login. This is not an “initial connection” flash. Your web camera just took a burst shot of pictures and sent them to WADU. The pictures will be scanned for anything deemed unprofessional or unsafe. Recreational drug paraphernalia, TVs, game consoles, and several other things are all flagged if detected in the pictures. If you see your web camera flash randomly, that was your manager or someone in security requesting a burst shot of pictures from your web camera.

You’ll also notice that your microphone will go hot shortly after login. Anything you say will be processed by WADU. All background noises will be processed by WADU. Say something bad about your boss or other superior? WADU flagged it. Say something bad about another co-worker? WADU flagged it. Have a moment of anger or frustration? WADU flagged it. These are just some examples, WADU is trained to detect a wide variety of keywords, phrases, and sound events. Your manager can also connect and listen to your audio feed live.

WADU is also able to detect keyboard pokers/bumpers and mouse jigglers/movers. It doesn’t matter if it is a completely external solution, WADU will be able to detect it by analyzing the repetitive input pattern. Your manager will be notified that your under suspicion of faking productivity. They will then connect to your session and see what is happening live. Action will be taken if the suspicion is confirmed.

WADU determines how productive you are by analyzing a variety of metrics about your session input. This includes words typed, mouse clicks, application activity, and many other things. The analysis also determines if someone is a unique contributor or if they are a regular worker. In overall rankings, unique contributors are always ranked higher than regular workers. The same analysis can also determine who is essentially dead weight. These people are ranked last.

You may have noticed at some point that you started getting job postings sent to your personal email. If you click on any of the links in these job list emails, your manager will get a notification on your WADU profile that you are actively looking for a new job. Even if it was just browsing, it can negatively affect the employee who clicked the link.

If you installed the JPMC workplace app on your phone, you have connected your phone to WADU. The workplace mobile app will collect a variety of information from your phone and use it to update and refine your WADU profile. Right now, the only way to reserve a desk at the office is to use the workplace app. The web version of the desk reservation system is still “coming soon” and you are pushed to install the app on your phone. It will probably still be “coming soon” in 2040.

Upper management pushes a narrative that all this surveillance is required to safeguard the firm against insider threats. While that may be partially true, the main reason is to train and refine the AI/ML system. They want every employee profile to be as accurate and as detailed as possible.

They say we are not supposed to use anything from an employee’s WADU profile to make employment decisions. It is kind of hard to ignore a ranked list of subordinates with productivity forecasting.

 

Here is how you can minimize the privacy invasion while working at JPMC:

Keep your web camera covered and microphone muted unless on a Zoom

Most modern laptops have multiple web cameras and microphones, make sure you are aware of all potential recording devices on your computer

Use your own desktop or laptop at home instead of an issued Chromebook

Do not grant Citrix Workplace access to your web camera or microphone

Use Zoom outside of Citrix when you are at home

Consider getting a phone and number solely for work purposes

Do not install the JPMC workplace app on your personal phone

If you need the workplace app, factory reset an old phone and install it on that

Know there are no blind spots, you are always on camera at the office

Know there is no privacy, all conversations are recorded everywhere at the office

Know all of your behavior at the office affects your WADU profile and ranking

It would be a good idea for you to print a copy of all performance reviews at home

 

[MissingInAction 24870]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Serious question- why aren't they just working in the middle of the night to fit into our time schedule.  If you are going to move the job to India b/c it pays $1.50 per hour go all the way and pay $2.00 an hour but require them to work 9-5 East coast time or whatever.  

It being India maybe the power is too sketchy at night. Who knows.

WFH has definitely exposed how useless most middle management is.

Every management aspect of my job is automated. From time management to project management.  

I run my weekly productivity reports, send them off and thats it. 

If I fuck up then I hear from whoever my fuck up actually affected not an overpaid task master.

It's awesome.

[immamac 42726]

I have been Remote (not WFH, those are different) for a while now, like way before it was "cool".

I think the problem is people are using those terms interchangeably and it needs to stop. WFH should never be a thing, and if it is a thing it needs to be under circumstances that warrant it (aka limited productivity acceptable in lieu of a full sick day/absence day if your kid is home from school or something like that or you know a global fucking pandemic where you can't go to professional working spaces).

Remote employees are expected to work their shift just like anyone else, they have equipment they use just like everyone else, they work in professional environments with their cameras and microphones always able to be on and can be attentive as if they were in the office, but they just aren't, they even have collaborative time or tools with everyone else. Remote employees are also entitled to "log off" outside of their shift and/or pre-defined hours as a part of the professional contract with the organization. There is no "I'm just gonna fuck off early" just like there's no "You are required to stay late". 

WFH employees are often distracted, constantly doing things in or around the home unrelated to work, do not have tools or professional setups, do not have always on access and/or camera's off/are on mute constantly, they take calls from noisy and unprofessional locations (not as in messy, as in not in a professional setting with other people working like a coworking space) They think WFH means "I can work whenever I want as long as I get my shit done" and that's not what it means. 

The WFH experience is over, the Remote work experience is not. I work for a Fortune 500 company and had to sign a Remote Worker Agreement - none of the people bitching about RTO signed that shit and none of them have even close to as professional of a setup as I have at home. They take calls from their bedrooms, their kitchens, their patios, etc.

Fuck off with your entitled bullshit about being able to WFH. I spent 5 figures on making a true professional workspace that is outside of my home, but still on my property to minimize the amount of distractions and maximize my level of productivity and professionalism. I am actually officially entitled to that, just like my company is officially entitled to my dedicated attention and investment in making my workspace that level of professional. 

Get your asses back into the office or sign a RWA + Set your shit up somewhere that isn't your "guest bedroom" and is a legitimate office that the IRS would not balk at as a home office.

[Js1 85162]

Ok boomer 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

- Hard to manage a lot of people when you never see them
- Cheaper to let them keep working than get saddled with a lawsuit 
- So do many of the workers, and they probably shouldn't have a job anyway...but quotas!  
 

It’s not hard to manage the right people, if you know how to hire them. First 5 months at my current gig, my manage was still living in Europe. He had zero problems getting a hold of me or me delivering. Now with the company’s strategy changing, they are letting some folks go, but he is retaining me. Get the right people. Don’t be a dickhead manager/director/CEO. Folks will be loyal and work hard for you. Even if you only see them once or twice a week in person.

[Deej 76642]

20 minutes ago, gurt said:

 

sounds like you just work at a company full of retards (what does that say about you)

It says I'm getting too close to retirement to change jobs. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10185]

19 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Serious question- why aren't they just working in the middle of the night to fit into our time schedule.  If you are going to move the job to India b/c it pays $1.50 per hour go all the way and pay $2.00 an hour but require them to work 9-5 East coast time or whatever.  

Same reason you can't get good employees here to work during the night... they don't want to.  You can hire people to do it, but going to be hard to find "good" ones to do it.

The problem with WFH is the good employees will work anywhere and may or may not be more productive at home themselves, but you lose their work leadership/model when they aren't in the office for the vast majority of employees who suck. Those employees barely work when supervised in the office and certainly aren't going to do more when "WFH".

[gurt 738]

12 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

- Hard to manage a lot of people when you never see them

- Cheaper to let them keep working than get saddled with a lawsuit 

- So do many of the workers, and they probably shouldn't have a job anyway...but quotas!  

 

I don't understand this position.  Are they working with pen and paper?  Are their tasks not being done via software with easily reviewable metrics?  I manage a team at a software company, all of whom wfh, and there is never a question of who is doing their work or not.  Just look at the numbers.

[Js1 85162]

23 minutes ago, gurt said:

 

sounds like you just work at a company full of retards (what does that say about you)

Every job is a job full of them and if you don’t know who they are…

 

[MissingInAction 24870]

8 minutes ago, gurt said:

I don't understand this position.  Are they working with pen and paper?  Are their tasks not being done via software with easily reviewable metrics?  I manage a team at a software company, all of whom wfh, and there is never a question of who is doing their work or not.  Just look at the numbers.

This. Shit, why is it so hard to understand?

Why should the talent have to go in when it's the tards that suck?

This is my setup. I've got a bird bath and hummingbird feeder to keep me relaxed. Then there's a bus stop to motivate me.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by MissingInAction

[Homercles 10205]

It’s a damn shame hearing about all these large corporations who had abysmal profits the past couple years and associated tanking of their shares once Covid forced most to WFH

[Trey3216 15325]

11 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

It’s not hard to manage the right people, if you know how to hire them. First 5 months at my current gig, my manage was still living in Europe. He had zero problems getting a hold of me or me delivering. Now with the company’s strategy changing, they are letting some folks go, but he is retaining me. Get the right people. Don’t be a dickhead manager/director/CEO. Folks will be loyal and work hard for you. Even if you only see them once or twice a week in person.

I never said anything disputing what you just wrote.  but oftentimes, you're managing people that aren't direct hires of yours (folks get shifted, your superior is the hiring manager, etc.) and you're stuck holding a fucking bag.  I see this shit everyday.  

[Homercles 10205]

6 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

This. Shit, why is it so hard to understand?

Why should the talent have to go in when it's the tards that suck?

This is my setup. I've got a bird bath and hummingbird feeder to keep me relaxed. Then there's a bus stop to motivate me.

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

There is a dearth of good managers. Peter principle is a bitch

[wildcat09 29307]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

We have dumbasses who have done/said the following things out loud to co-workers:

- refer to WFH days as their "days off"

- complain that a three day weekend cost them a work from home day and they should be allowed to replace it with another day

- rave about how WFH allows them to get more personal stuff done (errands, appointments, etc.) without it eating into their personal time. 

The smart way to do this is to say that the saved commute time lets you get more personal shit done.

I'm a firm believer that everyone slacks at work more than they'll admit and that it's generally fine, as long as you're responsive to clients/customers and coworkers when you really need to be and you ultimately get your work done. But if you're going to be an idiot and just broadcast to everyone that you're not doing anything when you're WFH, you deserve to get fired, not for the slacking but for being a complete dipshit.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

Getting back to the op, is at&t ok with employees showing up at some point in a window between 8 am and 6pm?

[gmr548 16557]

35 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Even for firms with performing assets, current interest rates are a kick in the nuts if they have to refi right now.

Definitely, no argument here. 

 

30 minutes ago, immamac said:

I spent 5 figures

I was wondering where all the vitriol came from until I got here...

[Foosters 17769]

Bunch of middle aged men who post non-stop during the work week on a message board trying to explain why WFH disincentives hard work

[Wulaw Horn 19023]

14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The smart way to do this is to say that the saved commute time lets you get more personal shit done.

I'm a firm believer that everyone slacks at work more than they'll admit and that it's generally fine, as long as you're responsive to clients/customers and coworkers when you really need to be and you ultimately get your work done. But if you're going to be an idiot and just broadcast to everyone that you're not doing anything when you're WFH, you deserve to get fired, not for the slacking but for being a complete dipshit.

My suspicion would be most people are like Peter from office space and get a solid 30 minutes of productive work done during any one day. Being self employed and accountable to nobody to justify how I spend my time I don't face any of those kind of ethical considerations on "am I working enough to justify my compensation" or "is it ok for me to skip town and be available by cell or when I decide to check in on my computer, but the amount of people that post here while billing hourly or otherwise on company dime tells me this isn't something the average worker struggles with.  That's not a shot at people here, for most women in the workforce not hanging out on a message board it's probably facebook, insta, tic toc or all of the above.  

The average worker probably doesn't do a whole lot, and yet they are more productive than pretty much any workforce in the world. This is just humanity I think.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Bunch of middle aged men who post non-stop during the work week on a message board trying to explain why WFH disincentives hard work

I’m at the office.

[Js1 85162]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Being self employed and accountable to nobody to justify how I spend my time

But you have no problem having an opinion about everyone else.