The latest get your ass back in the office story: AT&T

[Celery Man 20913]

To manage SW engineers effectively, you need to have their respect. The trick is to fire someone on the first day, or become someone's bitch.

[F250 28736]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I disagree on that front - not every individual contributor would be a good manager. It's a completely different skillset - no doubt. But every great manager that I've had also had at least a 100-level understanding of the work that their team was responsible for. It doesn't mean that they're a SME on everything, but it also means that they won't be making promises to business partners that aren't possible to achieve 

Me when I was a consultant and met with a CIO/CSO that lacked a basic understanding of the tech they were responsible for.

[Helobious 9503]

22 hours ago, immamac said:

I have been Remote (not WFH, those are different) for a while now, like way before it was "cool".

I think the problem is people are using those terms interchangeably and it needs to stop. WFH should never be a thing, and if it is a thing it needs to be under circumstances that warrant it (aka limited productivity acceptable in lieu of a full sick day/absence day if your kid is home from school or something like that or you know a global fucking pandemic where you can't go to professional working spaces).

Remote employees are expected to work their shift just like anyone else, they have equipment they use just like everyone else, they work in professional environments with their cameras and microphones always able to be on and can be attentive as if they were in the office, but they just aren't, they even have collaborative time or tools with everyone else. Remote employees are also entitled to "log off" outside of their shift and/or pre-defined hours as a part of the professional contract with the organization. There is no "I'm just gonna fuck off early" just like there's no "You are required to stay late". 

WFH employees are often distracted, constantly doing things in or around the home unrelated to work, do not have tools or professional setups, do not have always on access and/or camera's off/are on mute constantly, they take calls from noisy and unprofessional locations (not as in messy, as in not in a professional setting with other people working like a coworking space) They think WFH means "I can work whenever I want as long as I get my shit done" and that's not what it means. 

The WFH experience is over, the Remote work experience is not. I work for a Fortune 500 company and had to sign a Remote Worker Agreement - none of the people bitching about RTO signed that shit and none of them have even close to as professional of a setup as I have at home. They take calls from their bedrooms, their kitchens, their patios, etc.

Fuck off with your entitled bullshit about being able to WFH. I spent 5 figures on making a true professional workspace that is outside of my home, but still on my property to minimize the amount of distractions and maximize my level of productivity and professionalism. I am actually officially entitled to that, just like my company is officially entitled to my dedicated attention and investment in making my workspace that level of professional. 

Get your asses back into the office or sign a RWA + Set your shit up somewhere that isn't your "guest bedroom" and is a legitimate office that the IRS would not balk at as a home office.

That’s a pretty long way of saying “I work from home”. What a stupid post.

[immamac 42726]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

That’s a pretty long way of saying “I work from home”. What a stupid post.

[Sandman 3403]

47 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Your experience is also stuck with the 1940's opinion that the most productive worker should be promoted to the manager role. My experience is that this person can easily be the worst manager. 

Then what's the incentive to be productive? Because if I have the best productivity in my department for a sustained period of time and they wind up promoting Jerry, who doesn't do jack shit, then I'm planning my exit strategy.

[Celery Man 20913]

they put your picture up next to your monthly IPM score at the customer service desk

[BabaYaga 15238]

2 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Then what's the incentive to be productive? Because if I have the best productivity in my department for a sustained period of time and they wind up promoting Jerry, who doesn't do jack shit, then I'm planning my exit strategy.

Some people just want to crank out work, and that's it?  The point is a leader needs to have the conversation with this person about their goals and where they want to land?  If they want to move ahead, then additional facets of their development need to be unpacked - this is where the mentorship piece comes into play, especially face to face.  Often promotions without development are what lead to problematic managers who were handed the wheel but not told how to drive in this new role.  

Additionally, people promoted up and away are often just to get rid of them and make them somebody else's problem.  See that a lot.  

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Then what's the incentive to be productive? Because if I have the best productivity in my department for a sustained period of time and they wind up promoting Jerry, who doesn't do jack shit, then I'm planning my exit strategy.

I mentioned this above. I don’t want to be a PCM. I just want to be a damn good project Planner that people know can get the job done. Get paid and go home with a good work-life balance.

[Fudge Nuggets 19166]

On 5/17/2023 at 1:32 PM, FartingMonk said:

You don't know how many people I'm trying to get a simple answer from and they leave this little cutsie ass message.  I'm working from home today so I may be napping or taking my puppy to the park.  I'll respond when I get the chance.  I'm a lowly peon and it pisses me off.  Imagine what a c level executive is feeling 

That's the kind of shit that ruins it for those of us that are professional time-wasters.

[CooterBrown 17951]

5 hours ago, Macanudo said:

This is another thing that bugs the shit out of me....    Companies spend almost zero time either mentoring internal employees on leadership skills or provided new management hires with training.   In my line of work (Retirement) we often hired people from "similar" industries like insurance but they didn't really know our business.   They get thrown in with little to now training on "what" their team does and no time to learn it.   Those that survive are not necessarily the best managers, just those that adapted and/or perservered.  

It REALLY chaps my hide because over the years, I have developed several different programs for managers.    I built out a Manager Resource Group.   The intention was to have all managers withing out department be part of it with the intention to share best practices, mentor each other, etc.   I sent it up along the line and got approvals before someone in the C suite nixed it because he was worried about "time away from daily tasks."  He obviously didn't read the proposal because the intention was 30 minute meetings monthly with an hour at the quarter marks.   We couldn't spare 2 hours a quarter.  So, we piloted it within a smaller section for 6 months.   But then, last July, they shitcanned 50% of us and are outsourcing our jobs to India and the Phillipines.  I developed a Leadership Toolkit for engagement, employee recognition, management skills.   Again, I got approvals and kudos from my immediate management team and then it got killed by the same guy because "managers should know how to manage." 

WTF?   

Apparently, managers just "know."

The first question you should ask an employee when they decide they want to work towards becoming a manager is "why do you want to change careers?" 

Doing does not equal managing at all. 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52397]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

I disagree on that front - not every individual contributor would be a good manager. It's a completely different skillset - no doubt. But every great manager that I've had also had at least a 100-level understanding of the work that their team was responsible for. It doesn't mean that they're a SME on everything, but it also means that they won't be making promises to business partners that aren't possible to achieve 

Yeah, I feel that the best managers either know the job of those they are managing, or don’t know it but defer to them on timing and resource allocation. So no promises of x in y time because they know it’s not possible from experience, or they know because they asked their sme and listened to the answer. 
 

so obviously the worst is those that won’t say no to something unreasonable from above because they think it’s their job to make it happen, and then just pass it down without being able to help make it happen. 

[Macanudo 12946]

17 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Yeah, I feel that the best managers either know the job of those they are managing, or don’t know it but defer to them on timing and resource allocation. So no promises of x in y time because they know it’s not possible from experience, or they know because they asked their sme and listened to the answer. 
 

so obviously the worst is those that won’t say no to something unreasonable from above because they think it’s their job to make it happen, and then just pass it down without being able to help make it happen. 

Bingo.   When my team was fully staffed, I had 12 people who trained about 18 different areas.  Even if they were in a meeting with me, there was almost never a commitment to do something by a specific time made in that meeting.  We always tried to take it away and discuss in order to be reasonable about when/how.   If I had to guess when put on the spot, I was usually pretty spot on because I knew what my team was doing but I really hated not letting them in on the discussion before promises were made.   

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 2918]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Then what's the incentive to be productive? Because if I have the best productivity in my department for a sustained period of time and they wind up promoting Jerry, who doesn't do jack shit, then I'm planning my exit strategy.

[Buzzrock 14883]

Then what's the incentive to be productive? Because if I have the best productivity in my department for a sustained period of time and they wind up promoting Jerry, who doesn't do jack shit, then I'm planning my exit strategy.

[Buzzrock 14883]

Well yeah man, real estate investors and auto manufacturers deserve profits too! What are you, some sort of communist to dare to possibly impugn upon their god given right to record profit margins against the necessities for in office work?
 
But real talk, it's fuckin crazy. When I started my career in tech in Austin back in 2014, I was making around $60k - but covered all my expenses, student debt payments, going out with friends, fuckaround money, and even saved some to boot. That's just completely impossible now. My duplex unit that I used to rent near Mueller has more than doubled it's market rate in the five years since I moved out of Austin. I don't know how anyone affords a typical middle class lifestyle without a household income of over $100k/yr

Holy crap you’re young. What are you doing here?

[Captainant 27521]

11 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Holy crap you’re young. What are you doing here?

well when I was in school, it was fun going to Shaggy tailgates before kickoff - especially for those shitty Alamo Bowls lol. Pregaming the LHB pregame show was always great

 

I've been posting on Shaggy since I lived in Jester West lol

[Celery Man 20913]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

 

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:21 AM, Captainant said:

It's not the case with big contracting firms like TCS or Accenture, etc etc. They have a bucket of people they can throw at your project, and they'll work during their timezone.

A buddy of mine does a bunch of sales engineering for a Poland-based company, and he shifts his time to Poland time so he can actually contribute to the normal business cycle. If he didn't he would be losing out on a ton of opportunities too. 

The big consulting firms don't need to chase opportunities - they have an army of MBA holding zombies steering the business and following the orders of McKenzie to outsource and contract their labor, rather than nurture and grow your own workforce.

1) Your phone autocorrected McKinsey and doxed your significant other, might want to edit that, because I know you aren't ill-informed

2) Yes, the TWITCH firms have extremely deep benches and can put bodies in any timezone, but the case team lead or project manager will still have to manage them closely. Like someone else said, they are great at the tactical and wrench-turning but need to be spoon-fed the strategy. ACN can do strategic work, though.

3) Pre-COVID I rarely was in an office. I worked from home, but more aptly I worked from a Courtyard by Marriott, the airport, and client's office in that order. In fact, when I was home, which was Fri-Sun, I didn't work at all.

Now it's WFH, all the time, and I find myself working from 9am to midnight 6 days a week.

Mostly this is because I refuse to schedule anything before 9a and most days I take this gringo's version of a "siesta" which is just a mid-day break from like 2:30-9p, and then hop on from 9-12midnight to complete any administrative items like building decks, farting around with spreadsheets, scheduling, following up on emails, etc. I'm mostly in control of my calendar and can schedule as such.

I enjoy having the afternoon with the family, etc. and the kids were super young pre-covid and now are growing spoiled to this engaged and present dad all the time. That is awesome.

All that to say and I forgot to add, so I'm editing to add:

WFH for most back office functions and non-customer facing or non-revenue roles does make sense for productivity purposes and the people who fall in that bucket I feel like are like my kids who don't remember or don't want to go back to pre-covid working norms and have been spoiled by the convenience.

Also, I never turn on my camera anymore, for anyone or anything. I still go onsite to clients quite a bit and have to wear semi-formal and formal attire, so you can catch me then if you want to get eyes on me. Otherwise I'm in a t-shirt with unmade hair and gymshorts.

Edited May 19, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Captainant 27521]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

1) Your phone autocorrected McKinsey and doxed your significant other, might want to edit that, because I know you aren't ill-informed

lulz shows how much value I think they bring eh?

5 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

2) Yes, the TWITCH firms have extremely deep benches and can put bodies in any timezone, but the case team lead or project manager will still have to manage them closely. Like someone else said, they are great at the tactical and wrench-turning but need to be spoon-fed the strategy. ACN can do strategic work, though.

I've seen enough failed engagements from the usual suspects of outsourcing firms to know that most businesses don't have a case team lead or project manager that knows enough of the business to actually manage the outsourced team closely. See: prior discussion on the value of middle management knowing their ass from a hole in the ground, and knowing when they're buying a boondoggle.

7 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Mostly this is because I refuse to schedule anything before 9a and most days I take this gringo's version of a "siesta" which is just a mid-day break from like 2:30-9p, and then hop on from 9-12midnight to complete any administrative items like building decks, farting around with spreadsheets, scheduling, following up on emails, etc. I'm mostly in control of my calendar and can schedule as such.

I enjoy having the afternoon with the family, etc. and the kids are super young pre-covid and now are growing spoiled to this engaged and present dad all the time. That is awesome.

I don't have kids yet, but probably will before too long, and I really hope that I can work out this sort of work<->life harmony once little ones are in the picture. Your kids are really going to appreciate and remember how much time they got with their dad

[Buzzrock 14883]

1) Your phone autocorrected McKinsey and doxed your significant other, might want to edit that, because I know you aren't ill-informed
2) Yes, the TWITCH firms have extremely deep benches and can put bodies in any timezone, but the case team lead or project manager will still have to manage them closely. Like someone else said, they are great at the tactical and wrench-turning but need to be spoon-fed the strategy. ACN can do strategic work, though.
3) Pre-COVID I rarely was in an office. I worked from home, but more aptly I worked from a Courtyard by Marriott, the airport, and client's office in that order. In fact, when I was home, which was Fri-Sun, I didn't work at all.
Now it's WFH, all the time, and I find myself working from 9am to midnight 6 days a week.
Mostly this is because I refuse to schedule anything before 9a and most days I take this gringo's version of a "siesta" which is just a mid-day break from like 2:30-9p, and then hop on from 9-12midnight to complete any administrative items like building decks, farting around with spreadsheets, scheduling, following up on emails, etc. I'm mostly in control of my calendar and can schedule as such.
I enjoy having the afternoon with the family, etc. and the kids were super young pre-covid and now are growing spoiled to this engaged and present dad all the time. That is awesome.
All that to say and I forgot to add, so I'm editing to add:
WFH for most back office functions and non-customer facing or non-revenue roles does make sense for productivity purposes and the people who fall in that bucket I feel like are like my kids who don't remember or don't want to go back to pre-covid working norms and have been spoiled by the convenience.
Also, I never turn on my camera anymore, for anyone or anything. I still go onsite to clients quite a bit and have to wear semi-formal and formal attire, so you can catch me then if you want to get eyes on me. Otherwise I'm in a t-shirt with unmade hair and gymshorts.

You’re describing how working from home turned into living at work. It’s real and it sucked. I just spent a week in face to face meetings and they are so much more productive (not to mention civil) than a bunch of no-camera zoom screens.

[Captainant 27521]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

You’re describing how working from home turned into living at work. It’s real and it sucked. I just spent a week in face to face meetings and they are so much more productive (not to mention civil) than a bunch of no-camera zoom screens.

I really feel like it's a balance. If it's creative, collaborative work then being in person is a massive help and borderline required. But if you're chasing a problem or going heads-down to power through a document, then it's hard to beat the lack of context switching that WFH enables. 

 

Ultimately, a one size fits all solution creates more problems than it's meant to solve. Not every job or role NEEDS to be in the office, and not every role is WFH suitable. But I do think there's much more WFH efficiencies to be gained that idiot MBAs will stridently keep society away from

Edited May 19, 2023 by Captainant
Forgot a word

[Macanudo 12946]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

ACN can do strategic work, though.

 

No, they can't.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

You’re describing how working from home turned into living at work. It’s real and it sucked. I just spent a week in face to face meetings and they are so much more productive (not to mention civil) than a bunch of no-camera zoom screens.

I get a shit ton more done on Zoom calls than at in-person meetings.  Let's face it, for most meetings, just send me the fucking deck.  I can read.

Exception would be customer meetings, especially when there is an opportunity.  I emphasize making these face to face.

Edited May 19, 2023 by slorch

[HamsterHookah 112]

15 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

No, they can't.

 

58 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I really feel like it's a balance. If it's creative, collaborative work then being in person is a massive help and borderline required. But if you're chasing a problem or going heads-down to power through a document, then it's hard to beat the lack of context switching that WFH enables. 

 

Ultimately, a one size fits all solution creates more problems than it's meant to solve. Not every job or role NEEDS to be in the office, and not role is WFH suitable. But I do think there's much more WFH efficiencies to be gained that idiot MBAs will stridently keep society away from

We are all having a great discussion; can we stop with the othering and bias and prejudice against consultants, consultancies and MBA's at large?

[HamsterHookah 112]

17 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

No, they can't.

It sounds like you had a pretty bad experience. Care to share?

[Captainant 27521]

12 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

We are all having a great discussion; can we stop with the othering and bias and prejudice against consultants, consultancies and MBA's at large?

Eh I would if they weren't driving inflation by the explosion in profit taking and margins, while cutting labor with layoffs and pay freezes left and right. 

To be fair: having an MBA doesn't mean you're an idiot, in fact they're pretty smart. Only problem is, they're smart at how to reduce employment and a career down to a number on a page, and a number to be reduced at that. Their primary goal isn't to help employees or customers or create a better product. Their main concern is shareholders. Their goal is to create fatter profit margins. Sometimes, miraculously, they manage to actually create a better product - but in my experience they're robber-barons. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Captainant

[fattyflattie 4637]

34 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Eh I would if they weren't driving inflation by the explosion in profit taking and margins, while cutting labor with layoffs and pay freezes left and right. 

To be fair: having an MBA doesn't mean you're an idiot, in fact they're pretty smart. Only problem is, they're smart at how to reduce employment and a career down to a number on a page, and a number to be reduced at that. Their primary goal isn't to help employees or customers or create a better product. Their main concern is shareholders. Their goal is to create fatter profit margins. Sometimes, miraculously, they manage to actually create a better product - but in my experience they're robber-barons. 

Don't answer if you don't feel like it (obviously), but where are you currently in your company hierarchy?  Upper middle mgt?  Mgt. on executive track? Young exec?    I've always been in operations in O&G service industries.  We don't "create" a product, but a result.  There are ways to make things more efficient, grow, etc, but nothing like someone who produces a widget, then a different widget, then another.   I have been in operations my entire career, and am now shifting towards the exec side of that.  While $$$ has always been important, it was nothing compared to what I do now.  Almost a 180* shift on importance between the quality of work being done vs the financial side of the business and it's role.   I was always exposed to it, but never lived it.  It's can definitely form the way you see the business.  

 

[Homercles 10205]

You’re making some pretty broad assumptions about one of the most commonly earned graduate degrees out there.  

Personally I blame senior executives (SVP and up) more than MBAs, with Bain a close second…the shameless pursuit of quarterly profits and associated impact for their shares/bonuses (often 50%+ of annual compensation) leads to serious short sightedness.  

Granted the last few years have pissed me off in the big tech world.  It was plain that Covid was going to spur a spike in client PC/mobile sales, stuff like Zoom and associated cloud infra as things decentralized to a WFH-oriented world.  Everyone was high fiving each other.  Watching firms go nuts competing for talent, it was obvious there’d be a saturation point…but it didn’t stop massive profit taking across many industries while breathlessly trying to expand.  

Now there’s endless doom about a recession that hasn’t happened yet, RIFs all over the place and now Phase 2 trying to force more natural contraction via making life harder for employees.  We are back to crying about ‘market forces’ when a lot of the FTE expense was unnecessary fluff they themselves created.  

Airlines are the perfect example…retire old (but still useful) equipment, furlough/retire a slew of pilots, over incentivize customers during a pandemic.  Now they’re crying about not having enough metal and people, so tickets are stupid expensive and frequent flyer programs have become almost useless to those of us who don’t spend $20k+ a year traveling in F/J.  

I’m also convinced a significant portion of inflation was simply firms gouging people while they had excuses.  Pile on C-suite compensation that is unbelievably stupidly high…and I’m pretty jaded that they’re all raving to force people back into cubicle farms with zero privacy or facilities for ‘culture’.  

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Eh I would if they weren't driving inflation by the explosion in profit taking and margins, while cutting labor with layoffs and pay freezes left and right. 

To be fair: having an MBA doesn't mean you're an idiot, in fact they're pretty smart. Only problem is, they're smart at how to reduce employment and a career down to a number on a page, and a number to be reduced at that. Their primary goal isn't to help employees or customers or create a better product. Their main concern is shareholders. Their goal is to create fatter profit margins. Sometimes, miraculously, they manage to actually create a better product - but in my experience they're robber-barons. 

You have a problem with the system (shareholder capitalism). As one once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game".

[Deej 76643]

What's wrong with hating the player?

[HamsterHookah 112]

10 minutes ago, Homercles said:

You’re making some pretty broad assumptions about one of the most commonly earned graduate degrees out there.  

Personally I blame senior executives (SVP and up) more than MBAs, with Bain a close second…the shameless pursuit of quarterly profits and associated impact for their shares/bonuses (often 50%+ of annual compensation) leads to serious short sightedness.  

Granted the last few years have pissed me off in the big tech world.  It was plain that Covid was going to spur a spike in client PC/mobile sales, stuff like Zoom and associated cloud infra as things decentralized to a WFH-oriented world.  Everyone was high fiving each other.  Watching firms go nuts competing for talent, it was obvious there’d be a saturation point…but it didn’t stop massive profit taking across many industries while breathlessly trying to expand.  

Now there’s endless doom about a recession that hasn’t happened yet, RIFs all over the place and now Phase 2 trying to force more natural contraction via making life harder for employees.  We are back to crying about ‘market forces’ when a lot of the FTE expense was unnecessary fluff they themselves created.  

Airlines are the perfect example…retire old (but still useful) equipment, furlough/retire a slew of pilots, over incentivize customers during a pandemic.  Now they’re crying about not having enough metal and people, so tickets are stupid expensive and frequent flyer programs have become almost useless to those of us who don’t spend $20k+ a year traveling in F/J.  

I’m also convinced a significant portion of inflation was simply firms gouging people while they had excuses.  Pile on C-suite compensation that is unbelievably stupidly high…and I’m pretty jaded that they’re all raving to force people back into cubicle farms with zero privacy or facilities for ‘culture’.  

He's talking about the IB's, PE's, and McK, BCG and Bain's when he uses shorthand of "MBA's". He's not talking about our nephew who got a University of Texas A&M- Commerce MBA or whatever. He's not even talking about a McCombs MBA, for the most part, though those do exist in the vampire realm he hates.

[conVINCEd 21468]

I will never have a daily commute ever again.  You want to get the team together every now and then?  Sure.  But expecting me to waste 1-1.5 hrs per day in my car when I can do the exact same thing from home is no longer acceptable.  I have a somewhat specialized skill set, completely by accident, but if the current gig demanded that I come into the office everyday, I could be working for someone else within a week who would be fine with me being remote.

[HamsterHookah 112]

9 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I will never have a daily commute ever again.  You want to get the team together every now and then?  Sure.  But expecting me to waste 1-1.5 hrs per day in my car when I can do the exact same thing from home is no longer acceptable.  I have a somewhat specialized skill set, completely by accident, but if the current gig demanded that I come into the office everyday, I could be working for someone else within a week who would be fine with me being remote.

“That’s called WFH privilege and you should be humble about it or risk triggering me” -probably a millennial somewhere

[gmr548 16557]

“That’s called WFH privilege and you should be humble about it or risk triggering me” - immamac

FIFY

[Homercles 10205]

10 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I will never have a daily commute ever again.  You want to get the team together every now and then?  Sure.  But expecting me to waste 1-1.5 hrs per day in my car when I can do the exact same thing from home is no longer acceptable.  I have a somewhat specialized skill set, completely by accident, but if the current gig demanded that I come into the office everyday, I could be working for someone else within a week who would be fine with me being remote.

Myself and a few others are in a wait-and-see mode.  My hope is they get the critical mass they’re looking for in the office + attrition for those who steadfastly refuse, and we don’t progress to badged entry reports at a granular level / discipline threats   

I have one peer that is local, everyone else is scattered.  Word around the campfire is the CEO walked around a bit with a long line of folks airing gripes on how poor the infra was…bad keyboards, mice, etc in hotel-land.  Dealing with that + traffic to sit next to a dude while we are on the same conf call with Boston/Ireland doesn’t really appeal to me.  

[burntorangebongos 10710]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:53 PM, MissingInAction said:

Do you even time zone, bro?

I WFH real time exactly as I would in an office setting. 

My friend who works with outsourced people across the globe has to wait 12 hours for responses from his developers then they have to wait for his.

 

My company hires developers and network engineers that switch their work time happily. 

[MissingInAction 24870]

4 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

My company hires developers and network engineers that switch their work time happily. 

Are they talented or minions?

[burntorangebongos 10710]

Very talented. 

[Js1 85162]

7 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Are they talented or minions?

Are you implying the minions aren’t talented?

 

[hookemATL 11623]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

Are you implying the minions aren’t talented?

 

 

17 hours ago, Homercles said:

don’t progress to badged entry reports at a granular level / discipline threats

I’ve heard rumors of this at my current gig and know for a fact this big brother bullshit will drive a big exodus. My first visceral reaction to hearing of the possibility of this was as follows

[Gatorubet 30165]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:05 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Best managers that I've had have never been experts in the field for each of their employees. Sorry that you've had a different experience.

Your experience is also stuck with the 1940's opinion that the most productive worker should be promoted to the manager role. My experience is that this person can easily be the worst manager. 

The old school  Peter Principle  certainly has validity. People sometimes do rise to their level of incompetence. I have experienced numerous examples of people who were really excellent at their lower level job who got promoted into a job that they have no idea how to do, and so, instead of being a star at their particular skill set and having a long career with everyone appreciating them, they get shit canned because they are a bad manager. 

[Gatorubet 30165]

18 hours ago, Homercles said:

I’m also convinced a significant portion of inflation was simply firms gouging people while they had excuses.  

Do you even capitalism bro?
 

And I totally agree. Although it is hard to parse the gouging from the supply demand curve.

[Homercles 10205]

5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Do you even capitalism bro?
 

And I totally agree. Although it is hard to parse the gouging from the supply demand curve.

Yep, totally aware that capitalism in a nutshell.  And I am absolutely comfortable with companies making money…that’s the whole fucking point.  

Where I get irate is when a company/industry reaps the benefits of a rising market to the tune of massive profits, but then whine about ‘headwinds’ when it’s proven they were ill-prepared for the inevitable downturn.  Oil and gas, banking and aviation are absolutely horrible about that shit.  All the while paying ten million to their CEO who is supposed to be guiding the ship long term.  

[Nivek 16880]

On 5/18/2023 at 12:04 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

A boss doesn't have to know the ends and outs of everyone's job. And they definitely don't have to be an expert at everyone's job. If they were, they should be in the worker bee role.  
A boss needs to understand the goal, what it will take to achieve it, and conflicting priorities. Details aren't necessary for that.
I can even argue that a boss, well versed in the work effort, could be a hindrance. In my experience, with that type of boss you have to perform the work the way the boss would do it. Which doesn't mean it's the best.

I disagree with that last part. A boss who can provide assistance or guidance can share that with subordinates. It helps to know the work well enough to know how to manage expectations and to understand the realities on the ground, or to be able to step in when there is a need.  A bunch of guys standing around creating expectations because they lack a real understanding of the process and responsibilities as well as labor needs, created inefficient processes and hurdles as well as unrealistic expectations as the market changed.   It was a challenge to bottom-up change the culture, processes, and organization.  It was very easy to top-down change procedures and share information globally when someone who actually understood the work was in charge. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Nivek

[MissingInAction 24870]

6 hours ago, Js1 said:

Are you implying the minions aren’t talented?

 

If being a mindless slave is a talent...

[Guest]

One of the unspoken( tee-hee) qualities of leadership is STFU and GTFO of the way-  let your folks find solutions.  Achievement builds confidence.  Confidence allows for risk taking. Etc, etc...

This is not to be confused with the fucker who is never available for their charges and doesn't have a presence with the overall function/ work of their teams.

Be available, not a hindrance.   and fuck micro managers who can't see the big picture.  They are the bane of true development of capability.

[Brew 3049]

I thought surly was overrun with lawyers, but this thread makes it look it’s IT rather than attorneys. Consider me shocked that the IT world is all for working from home permanently. Ours have been out of office fires we at this point.  I am curious what those on the earlier side of their careers think as most here seem to be well into it and are at the stage of leave me alone and let me work.

We’re pretty much work anywhere, but most people come in most of the week although hours are all over the place. Our people are in markets where commutes aren’t an issue outside of a couple of larger markets which seems to be a major differentiator. WFH/Covid has driven up comp in our industry significantly so we’re seeing a lot more offshoring of the lower level jobs which will probably bite us in the ass later I’m sure. I talked to a firm recently that went from 0 offshore hours a few years ago to 2M hours offshore last year. It’s a weird time in the professional services industry and decisions management is making will have a ripple effect long-term.

[wildcat09 29307]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:39 PM, HamsterHookah said:

 

We are all having a great discussion; can we stop with the othering and bias and prejudice against consultants, consultancies and MBA's at large?

Absolutely the fuck not.

[CleverNickname 1298]

State worker. New buildings, built and planned before Covid. Like an army prepared to fight the last war, not the next war. For now we go in 2x per week. Personally I enjoy the one day of face to face, but more than that isn't necessary. 

State employment in TX no longer offers a pension to new hires. Salary bumps haven't really kept up with inflation, let alone student debt and central Texas home prices. Management appears to think 2-3 days remote is the way forward for now (begrudgingly). The thing is, they think they have control. They don't. Market forces will dictate the moves of C suite executives. They compete for talent. In public service the trade off for marginal salary is work/life balance and benefits. Pension is hamstrung for new folks (if it ever was truly good). They will simply have to let people remote work. Maybe in the office 1 or 2x per month. Then folks could afford to live in Temple or Lampasas or Luling. I bought in 2007, so I had minimal grad debt, ATX home lottery ticket winner, and grandfather pension (retire at 52 w/o inflation adjusted pension). Now we can only afford to hire trust fund kids and folks with tech job $ spouses. I'd never be able to make it if I started now.

[Neonmoon 38127]

I’ve had shit managers with little experience and shit managers who had 40 years experience and were legends in their field of expertise. Being a good manager is just a different skill set than being good at [insert job title].