discussion- can someone explain predetermined game scripts to me?

[shadow_operative 15932]

i've never understood game planning the first 15 or so plays of a game. imagine if a baseball manager told his pitcher, "here's the first 25 pitches you're going to throw, regardless of what's actually happening in the game." then again i'm not football coach or expert- not by a long shot. still, i can't be alone in wondering what the supposed advantage is of deciding the first 10-15 plays you're going to run on offense days before the game actually takes place.

bonus question: why don't coaches script their first 10-15 plays in defense if it's such a good idea on offense? 

[Surly Bevo 24696]

Think three main things:

1.  Run plays and sequences of plays that you feel have a chance to be successful based on what you have seen on film are the other team's tendencies

2.  Establish rhythm for the QB and offense (fuck you Greg Davis)

3.  Set stuff up for the future in the game

 I do not think having a script is the problem, the problem is if you are unwilling to throw it out if 4 or 5 plays in if shit is different. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Surly Bevo

[TwiceHorn 31269]

Defense is more inherently reactive than offense, so it's even more useless to script anything.

But I'd guess that part of it is to deviate from tendencies and show something new and different so that defenses can't get comfortable based on their film study.  And I'd guess the scripted plays are highly rehearsed in order to keep the players from falling back into tendency.  And hopefully, it's both different and similar enough to "stock" plays to create and maintain that discomfort through most of the game.

In addition to the things SB said.

[GringoSalado 1651]

I always thought it was also a bit of "I don't care if the FS is up, we need to run power at least twice (L&R) to get on film how their DL plays it" or wanting to see your opponents reaction to a set of plays early in the game regardless of their defense.

[Bama Llama 1447]

You’d think scripting would help the offense have a better chance of success on the road when crowd noise is a factor.

But I have no meaningful qualifications other than watching football in person and on TV for 60+ years. Played high school ball  and did so well ended up in the band. 

Corches, whst say you?

[Beau Vine 53999]

I've never taken it to literally mean the first 15 plays in order.  You just have a play sheet with 15 plays you've practiced heavily, and you're not going to go to a secondary play sheet until you run everything on that one.

[Majorcholas 507]

Hs OC here.

we do it to:

1) give players confidence and being comfortable on the first drive when nerves are flying high. (They’ve practice that same sequence of calls/formations all week)

2) MAKE SURE that you get in formations and plays you want to see early to make defense show you their hand. You take what the defense has done to your first script which then lets you manipulate the defense by alignment/matchups.

3) Helps the playcaller use the actual gameplan. You would be surprise how incredibly quick you have to be getting the next play call in. That way they don’t just go to old faithful every time.

4) if it’s a well coached opponent then you know they scouted your film for tendencies. If you are a good staff you do a self scout as well so you know what tendencies you showed. You take their defense and then have some kind of idea what they should do to you and allows you to prepare for it. So you give them the pre snap look of a tendency you have showed last week and then hit them with the counter, knowing you know that they know. (If that makes sense)

That’s just my first thoughts but this is an hour long clinic talk on why to script early plays.

[Majorcholas 507]

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i've never understood game planning the first 15 or so plays of a game. imagine if a baseball manager told his pitcher, "here's the first 25 pitches you're going to throw, regardless of what's actually happening in the game." then again i'm not football coach or expert- not by a long shot. still, i can't be alone in wondering what the supposed advantage is of deciding the first 10-15 plays you're going to run on offense days before the game actually takes place.

bonus question: why don't coaches script their first 10-15 plays in defense if it's such a good idea on offense? 

Oh I missed the bonus question…

most defenses kind of do but they are more situation dependent than the offfense. Most DCs have an idea what you are going to run on certain situations. (I.e. first downs are 80% bubble screen to the boundary..shout out GDGD) so they will be in a certain call on first downs for that. They also have formation specific coverages or blitzes. (I.e. 3rd and long with a 3x1 formation) the defense will have practiced this and should have an idea how you like to attack that situation.  It’s MUCH harder to be a DC as the offense holds all the cards.

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

8 hours ago, Majorcholas said:

Oh I missed the bonus question…

most defenses kind of do but they are more situation dependent than the offfense. Most DCs have an idea what you are going to run on certain situations. (I.e. first downs are 80% bubble screen to the boundary..shout out GDGD) so they will be in a certain call on first downs for that. They also have formation specific coverages or blitzes. (I.e. 3rd and long with a 3x1 formation) the defense will have practiced this and should have an idea how you like to attack that situation.  It’s MUCH harder to be a DC as the offense holds all the cards.

I swear gdgd could've called a fake bubble screen and scored a TD on the first play of every OU game for his last few seasons here.  Every single person in the cotton bowl, even casual fans by that point, knew what was coming on that first play.  And still he ran it without fail.

Just to be an ass, Stoops should've lined up the entire defense, including the dline, directly in front of that receiver.  I'd bet money Davis still would've called it.  He was simply incapable of not starting that game with that play.

[cmontexas 3253]

Gotta get that easy completion, get the offense into a rhythm and some confidence for the quarterback 

[formermav43 4599]

1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I swear gdgd could've called a fake bubble screen and scored a TD on the first play of every OU game for his last few seasons here.  Every single person in the cotton bowl, even casual fans by that point, knew what was coming on that first play.  And still he ran it without fail.

Just to be an ass, Stoops should've lined up the entire defense, including the dline, directly in front of that receiver.  I'd bet money Davis still would've called it.  He was simply incapable of not starting that game with that play.

I get everyone has PTSD from the start of the 2010 game, but I think that’s the only time he began with a bubble. (In fact, we didn’t even run that play at all for like the previous decade, cliche notwithstanding-we ran other WR screens, though, obviously.)

[Evil Bill Obrien 3188]

One of the biggest criticisms of Gary Kubiak and his offensive staff (think Kyle Shanahan was one of the OC's over that time) when they were with the Texans was their unending use of offensive game scripts of the first few series of the game. They would often work beautifully and Texans would score 14-21 points over the first few drives but then you could clearly tell when the script runs out because they would score 7-10 points for the whole rest of the game. Kubiak to my memory never ever deviated from this at all and it was so frustrating watching such creative play calls on the script just fall to shit by the middle of the 2nd quarter. Never got why maybe they didnt at least split the script up so they would use half of it to start the game, and then half of it to start the 2nd half or something to at least spread out these great plays over more of the game and not give the other team a whole 2nd half to figure it out... 

[Herpa Derpa 6112]

3 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I swear gdgd could've called a fake bubble screen and scored a TD on the first play of every OU game for his last few seasons here.  Every single person in the cotton bowl, even casual fans by that point, knew what was coming on that first play.  And still he ran it without fail.

Just to be an ass, Stoops should've lined up the entire defense, including the dline, directly in front of that receiver.  I'd bet money Davis still would've called it.  He was simply incapable of not starting that game with that play.

And always the same result.

[Tex Pete 20177]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I've never taken it to literally mean the first 15 plays in order.  You just have a play sheet with 15 plays you've practiced heavily, and you're not going to go to a secondary play sheet until you run everything on that one.

Depends on the coach, I guess. I held the headset cord for Hal Mumme many moons ago, and he would definitely run 25 plays in order. I am sure that he may situationally change a play (inside the 5, for instance), but he had an exact script that he followed.

He would often run his first play with all his receivers (which were all his skill players in the Run and Shoot) running streaks. He scored on that a lot.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Tex Pete

[shadow_operative 15932]

4 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I swear gdgd could've called a fake bubble screen and scored a TD on the first play of every OU game for his last few seasons here.  Every single person in the cotton bowl, even casual fans by that point, knew what was coming on that first play.  And still he ran it without fail.

Just to be an ass, Stoops should've lined up the entire defense, including the dline, directly in front of that receiver.  I'd bet money Davis still would've called it.  He was simply incapable of not starting that game with that play.

garrett gilbert once started the OU game 2/2 for -4 yards.

i also remember playing KU at home VY's last year. we won something like 56-0, but the very first play from scrimmage should have been a pick-6 for ku. we threw that idiotic wr screen, the ku db jumped it, and he just straight up dropped the ball with nobody between him and our EZ. just maddening.

Edited May 22, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Beau Vine 53999]

2 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Gotta get that easy completion, get the offense into a rhythm and some confidence for the quarterback 

And now it's 2nd-and-12!

[Beau Vine 53999]

6 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

garrett gilbert once started the OU game 2/2 for -4 yards.

Yes, but one was to the left, and one was to the right, so we were definitely keeping OU on their toes!

And Gilbert was just oozing confidence after completing his first two passes when he walked up to the line for 3rd-and-14.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Beau Vine

[shadow_operative 15932]

6 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Yes, but one was to the left, and one was to the right, so we were definitely keeping OU on their toes!

And Gilbert was just oozing confidence after completing his first two passes when he walked up to the line for 3rd-and-14.

...where we probably somehow found a way to hand the ball off to brett robin. 

[closetojumping 62231]

The equivalent to baseball isn't in scripting 25 pitches. It's having a detailed scouting breakdown of how your pitcher is going to approach each hitter through the first two times through the order. Spots in and outside of the zone, tendencies during pitch count, and capabilities against the starter's repertoire.

Frankly, baseball is so much less complicated that the level of analytics many teams take their pitching approach to, throughout the starter and bullpen entirely, would be an OC's wet dream. There is way too much chaos and way too few games in football for anyone to be close to that level of sophisticated. That's also why the commentary these days around analytics and "trusting the book" for football coaches is fucking dumb. It's pseudoscience in football.

 

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Players have to execute plays, so if you script then you can practice them which will help players execute better.

[kilroydos 267]

It's also helpful if you want to leave a fake version on the field for an opposing team to pick up.

[deadshank 24651]

Everybody has a game plan until you get punched in the mouth. 

[Beau Vine 53999]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

The equivalent to baseball isn't in scripting 25 pitches. It's having a detailed scouting breakdown of how your pitcher is going to approach each hitter through the first two times through the order. Spots in and outside of the zone, tendencies during pitch count, and capabilities against the starter's repertoire.

Frankly, baseball is so much less complicated that the level of analytics many teams take their pitching approach to, throughout the starter and bullpen entirely, would be an OC's wet dream. There is way too much chaos and way too few games in football for anyone to be close to that level of sophisticated. That's also why the commentary these days around analytics and "trusting the book" for football coaches is fucking dumb. It's pseudoscience in football.

 

This has so many typos and is so awkwardly written that it looks like it was written by Sydney Carton and I can't even figure out what point you're trying to make.

[MontereyMX 848]

20 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i've never understood game planning the first 15 or so plays of a game. imagine if a baseball manager told his pitcher, "here's the first 25 pitches you're going to throw, regardless of what's actually happening in the game." then again i'm not football coach or expert- not by a long shot. still, i can't be alone in wondering what the supposed advantage is of deciding the first 10-15 plays you're going to run on offense days before the game actually takes place.

bonus question: why don't coaches script their first 10-15 plays in defense if it's such a good idea on offense? 

you should stick to titties and asses 

[shadow_operative 15932]

19 minutes ago, MontereyMXmuthafucka said:

you should stick to titties and asses 

that's a different guy.

[closetojumping 62231]

41 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

This has so many typos and is so awkwardly written that it looks like it was written by Sydney Carton and I can't even figure out what point you're trying to make.

Did that post take this thread from "Bad" to "Worst", Professor? 

Derka's original post drew an analog to baseball. I countered with a proposed better analog. Then I went off on analytics, which was tangential but not too far astray from his original concept and question. 

Separately, feel free to go grammar nazi on me, but I do not have any typos in that post. Odd phrasing or grammar errors? Perhaps. I'll be more linear and use smaller words someday for a wider audience, I just know it. 

Also, the chasm between Sydney's derelict typing and autocorrect behavior and my clean posting is wider than the Grand Canyon.

[Ignatius 4001]

8 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Gotta get that easy completion, get the offense into a rhythm and some confidence for the quarterback 

That motherfucking comment from GDGD after we opened the game in 2010 with Squints throwing two straight bubble screens for a combined loss of 8 yards was fucking infuriating….

[Guadaloopy 10921]

Well, son… sometimes when a Head Coach and an OC love each other very much..

[Had Enough 2057]

That motherfucking comment from GDGD after we opened the game in 2010 with Squints throwing two straight bubble screens for a combined loss of 8 yards was fucking infuriating….

I think the play that broke GG was a 4th and 2 from the UCLA 40. He went to the 4th option. To Greg Smith for No yards. Brilliantly drawn up.

[nnm 36087]

4 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

Players have to execute plays, so if you script then you can practice them which will help players execute better.

Bad results flow from lack of execution. Every offense is basically the same. The plays are there. Just gotta execute. 

[hpslugga 4044]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:22 PM, shadow_operative said:

i've never understood game planning the first 15 or so plays of a game. imagine if a baseball manager told his pitcher, "here's the first 25 pitches you're going to throw, regardless of what's actually happening in the game." then again i'm not football coach or expert- not by a long shot. still, i can't be alone in wondering what the supposed advantage is of deciding the first 10-15 plays you're going to run on offense days before the game actually takes place.

bonus question: why don't coaches script their first 10-15 plays in defense if it's such a good idea on offense? 

I've neglected to post much on topics like these in recent years largely because Texas' general decline in football has brought out the absolute worst quality of discourse. Nonetheless, this is a more general topic not specific to the Horns, so here it goes:

1. As has been already stated, the first 15 play script serves two purposes: it eliminates the guesswork, and all baggage that comes with guesswork, by the offensive players and allows them to run plays with which they're most familiar AND it also gives the HC and OC an idea about how the opposition is going to defend certain plays. So let's say that the offense runs the much maligned bubble screen to a slot receiver out of a trips set. Let's also say that this is on the first play of the game and the playside CB shoots the screen right off the snap. Ok, they've clearly been coached to do that...probably because the offense has shown nothing to counter that, at least not from that particular formation. An OC can dial up something a bit later in the game: call the bubble again, but this time have both the X and the other blocking slot WR fake like they're gonna block on the first 2-3 steps and then shoot up the field. Well the CB isn't gonna be able to defend the X because he's been told to flatly ignore him. The other slot can run a seam/post and it serves no purpose other than to occupy the playside safety (although if that safety is stupid enough to over-rotate to defend the X running a fly pattern, obviously that slot is very likely to be open downfield in the middle).

2. I agree with CTJ's characterization of the baseball analogy.

3. The script has contingencies. Have you seen those play calling charts that the play caller holds in front of his face so as to conceal his lips from the camera? Yeah, they're the same size up in the booth. Furthermore, the script on that chart constitutes a very limited fraction of its space. There are other spaces that list contingent play calls that take other factors into consideration that normal scripts do not. So, for example, it'll say what to do if the defense isn't showing the kinds of looks they've been known to show. Maybe they're blitzing on first down. Maybe they're using a 4-man front even though they're usually a 3-man front defense. Maybe they're using a single high safety instead of a cover 2. Maybe they're showing zone when they usually play an aggressive press. The contingency plays also allow for the OC to bail on the script because the offense has found itself in a predicament where the next play call wouldn't be helpful. So like maybe it's 3rd and 7 on the 5th play of the drive and you've got a power dive called for that one. Just bail on it. Duh. They've got scripts, but they're not abject slaves to them. In other words, if you took every coaches' scripts and you read through them and matched them on the film (and this all assumes you understand the names of the plays compared to what's being run), you will very often find yourself saying "hey, you didn't run the play that was in the script on that one! You're a great big phony!"

5. As to the defense having scripts, it's already been said. It's a much more reactive concept and a script can't help with that. So say you're a 4-3 defense and you trot out your regular personnel even though the offense is coming out in a 5-wide set. You're already at a disadvantage. And let's say you're doing an all-out blitz. Ok, now you're pretty much fucked unless the other team just sucks that bad. Offenses are the ones with the scripts because they're the ones with the ball. 

[HRSchenker 2259]

On 5/21/2023 at 10:37 PM, Majorcholas said:

Oh I missed the bonus question…

most defenses kind of do but they are more situation dependent than the offfense. Most DCs have an idea what you are going to run on certain situations. (I.e. first downs are 80% bubble screen to the boundary..shout out GDGD) so they will be in a certain call on first downs for that. They also have formation specific coverages or blitzes. (I.e. 3rd and long with a 3x1 formation) the defense will have practiced this and should have an idea how you like to attack that situation.  It’s MUCH harder to be a DC as the offense holds all the cards.

You don't run back to back bubble screens designed to lose yardage as a way to boost the confidence of your quarterback?! 

[Hpara759 1777]

On 5/22/2023 at 3:04 PM, deadshank said:

Everybody has a game plan until you get punched in the mouth. 

 

[Davis Lane 5553]

[Bevo 13526]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:01 AM, Tex Pete said:

Depends on the coach, I guess. I held the headset cord for Hal Mumme many moons ago, and he would definitely run 25 plays in order. I am sure that he may situationally change a play (inside the 5, for instance), but he had an exact script that he followed.

He would often run his first play with all his receivers (which were all his skill players in the Run and Shoot) running streaks. He scored on that a lot.

How does the defense handle that if it is in zone - let's say Cover 2?

[hpslugga 4044]

11 minutes ago, Bevo said:

How does the defense handle that if it is in zone - let's say Cover 2?

Against all go’s?

[Bevo 13526]

12 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Against all go’s?

Yeah

[hpslugga 4044]

If you’re in cover 2, you’re wanting both CB’s to re-route the X and Z to the inside, safeties are more or less splitting the diff between where either WR on their sides could wind up. You’d also want your MLB dropping deep to discourage any notions of the slots breaking off their routes into skinnies into the middle void, and for the OLB’s you’d want them trailing the slots so the QB doesn’t get cute and try to hit a quick one before the safety can get there. 

Essentially all that is supposed to leave is the RB running some sort of check release and as a defense, you live with that. Sure that may be a 6-8 yard gain, but they were going for the home run ball. And of course if your pass rush is worth a shit, that QB ends up sampling fieldturf because the RB is obviously the 5th option.

[Bevo 13526]

14 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

If you’re in cover 2, you’re wanting both CB’s to re-route the X and Z to the inside, safeties are more or less splitting the diff between where either WR on their sides could wind up. You’d also want your MLB dropping deep to discourage any notions of the slots breaking off their routes into skinnies into the middle void, and for the OLB’s you’d want them trailing the slots so the QB doesn’t get cute and try to hit a quick one before the safety can get there. 

Essentially all that is supposed to leave is the RB running some sort of check release and as a defense, you live with that. Sure that may be a 6-8 yard gain, but they were going for the home run ball. And of course if your pass rush is worth a shit, that QB ends up sampling fieldturf because the RB is obviously the 5th option.

So you are still hoping the two safeties can cover all the go routes? In modern offenses is there a read to where the QB throws the ball towards the corners of the end zone (ie. outside shoulder) knowing the wr will break back from where the CB pushed him inside.

[hpslugga 4044]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

So you are still hoping the two safeties can cover all the go routes? In modern offenses is there a read to where the QB throws the ball towards the corners of the end zone (ie. outside shoulder) knowing the wr will break back from where the CB pushed him inside.

Perhaps you could draw up such a play? I’m not saying that to be a smart ass; I really have not heard of such a concept. Usually when a receiver adjusts a route, it’s because either there’s a built in principle (a la Mouse Davis’ offense with all those option routes to be made between the 5th and 8th steps) or the QB is scrambling around and the WR has gone well past the point where he should expect the ball to be thrown to him and he needs to shake a defender. Typically when a WR gets re-routed, he fights his way back to where he’s supposed to be (but that also means he’s less likely to get the ball). That’s especially true on the all go due to the nature of the play, more on that later.

Anyways, the bold part of what you said implies that the ball is close to the goal line and when a defense has a tendency to play cover 2 down there, OC’s tend not to call all go’s in particular. If they do, they’re absolutely counting on the idea that at least one of the X or Z will get a positive outside release. In other words if they get re-routed to the middle, that play is likely screwed. I personally would be more inclined to call all go’s against press man because that all gets boiled down to whom among the X and Z is getting the quick back shoulder throw.

But to your point about working the sideline after the X and Z have been re-routed towards the middle…that takes time to develop and you’re asking your QB to take quite a bit of time before releasing the ball. And if the space to throw the ball ends up being really small, you’re really cutting his nuts off.

“Hey, take about 5-7 seconds and throw this ball into a tight space…but you gotta be accurate bc ya know, balls picked on the sideline tend to get taken for a house call.”

Seems to me like that would be an extremely unlikely set up. I could be totally wrong, but I’m visualizing how long it takes an X/Z to get re-routed, work back, and actually get to the sideline area meaningfully downfield and in a space that’s too deep for a roll corner and too far away from a half field safety. In all go’s, the whole principle that all 4 WR’s abide to is that it’s what’s known as a “field marker route.” In other words it’s not just the the X and Z run flies. They generally run flies down the numbers (slots run down the college hash marks)…and now you’re talking about working back to the other side of the numbers? 

[hpslugga 4044]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:01 AM, Tex Pete said:

Depends on the coach, I guess. I held the headset cord for Hal Mumme many moons ago, and he would definitely run 25 plays in order. I am sure that he may situationally change a play (inside the 5, for instance), but he had an exact script that he followed.

He would often run his first play with all his receivers (which were all his skill players in the Run and Shoot) running streaks. He scored on that a lot.

Just now saw this.

Hal was one of the few who could get away with that. They built in so many different route combinations through using choice routes that they could call the same play 5 times in a row and it would all look completely different on film...especially back in those days.

[Bevo 13526]

23 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Perhaps you could draw up such a play? I’m not saying that to be a smart ass; I really have not heard of such a concept. Usually when a receiver adjusts a route, it’s because either there’s a built in principle (a la Mouse Davis’ offense with all those option routes to be made between the 5th and 8th steps) or the QB is scrambling around and the WR has gone well past the point where he should expect the ball to be thrown to him and he needs to shake a defender. Typically when a WR gets re-routed, he fights his way back to where he’s supposed to be (but that also means he’s less likely to get the ball). That’s especially true on the all go due to the nature of the play, more on that later.

Anyways, the bold part of what you said implies that the ball is close to the goal line and when a defense has a tendency to play cover 2 down there, OC’s tend not to call all go’s in particular. If they do, they’re absolutely counting on the idea that at least one of the X or Z will get a positive outside release. In other words if they get re-routed to the middle, that play is likely screwed. I personally would be more inclined to call all go’s against press man because that all gets boiled down to whom among the X and Z is getting the quick back shoulder throw.

But to your point about working the sideline after the X and Z have been re-routed towards the middle…that takes time to develop and you’re asking your QB to take quite a bit of time before releasing the ball. And if the space to throw the ball ends up being really small, you’re really cutting his nuts off.

“Hey, take about 5-7 seconds and throw this ball into a tight space…but you gotta be accurate bc ya know, balls picked on the sideline tend to get taken for a house call.”

Seems to me like that would be an extremely unlikely set up. I could be totally wrong, but I’m visualizing how long it takes an X/Z to get re-routed, work back, and actually get to the sideline area meaningfully downfield and in a space that’s too deep for a roll corner and too far away from a half field safety. In all go’s, the whole principle that all 4 WR’s abide to is that it’s what’s known as a “field marker route.” In other words it’s not just the the X and Z run flies. They generally run flies down the numbers (slots run down the college hash marks)…and now you’re talking about working back to the other side of the numbers? 

 

So let the outside guys get pushed inside and then break off the route for a very deep down and out or as drawn.

[hpslugga 4044]

26 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

So let the outside guys get pushed inside and then break off the route for a very deep down and out or as drawn.

It would have to be very deep and that’s kinda my point regarding the pass rush. If your protection could hold up for that long? Yeah let it rip, provided of course the X/Z can 1) get off the corner after breaking back to the outside and 2) get to the spot as fast as possible so as to keep the safety away from the play. I just think training your X’s and Z’s to get that outside release on the fly is much better for your QB’s safety and the margin for error on the throw.

[Bevo 13526]

40 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

It would have to be very deep and that’s kinda my point regarding the pass rush. If your protection could hold up for that long? Yeah let it rip, provided of course the X/Z can 1) get off the corner after breaking back to the outside and 2) get to the spot as fast as possible so as to keep the safety away from the play. I just think training your X’s and Z’s to get that outside release on the fly is much better for your QB’s safety and the margin for error on the throw.

Probably but if you had a smart QB who would throw that route short on the outside shoulder rather than trying to throw a perfect pass for a TD, there is no way the safety or corner could get to it.

[Beau Vine 53999]

If I were the OC, I'd just script this 15 times in a row, and blam, we'd have 105 points before the defense knew what hit them.

[52-80 19086]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:59 PM, shadow_operative said:

that's a different guy.

we want the titties and asses guy

[closetohumping 17400]

On 5/21/2023 at 5:35 PM, Surly Bevo said:

Think three main things:

1.  Run plays and sequences of plays that you feel have a chance to be successful based on what you have seen on film are the other team's tendencies

2.  Establish rhythm for the QB and offense (fuck you Greg Davis)

3.  Set stuff up for the future in the game

 I do not think having a script is the problem, the problem is if you are unwilling to throw it out if 4 or 5 plays in if shit is different. 

4. See how the defense adjusts and then you adjust.

On 5/21/2023 at 5:22 PM, shadow_operative said:

i've never understood game planning the first 15 or so plays of a game. imagine if a baseball manager told his pitcher, "here's the first 25 pitches you're going to throw, regardless of what's actually happening in the game." then again i'm not football coach or expert- not by a long shot. still, i can't be alone in wondering what the supposed advantage is of deciding the first 10-15 plays you're going to run on offense days before the game actually takes place.

bonus question: why don't coaches script their first 10-15 plays in defense if it's such a good idea on offense? 

No but I think they have particular sequences per batter.   

[Lidig8r 1856]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:30 AM, shadow_operative said:

 

i also remember playing KU at home VY's last year. we won something like 56-0, but the very first play from scrimmage should have been a pick-6 for ku. we threw that idiotic wr screen, the ku db jumped it, and he just straight up dropped the ball with nobody between him and our EZ. just maddening.

And yet, sometimes, on very rare occasions ... that WR screen on the first play of the game is epic.

 

[horn4life 3755]

On 5/21/2023 at 10:32 PM, Majorcholas said:

Hs OC here.

we do it to:

1) give players confidence and being comfortable on the first drive when nerves are flying high. (They’ve practice that same sequence of calls/formations all week)

2) MAKE SURE that you get in formations and plays you want to see early to make defense show you their hand. You take what the defense has done to your first script which then lets you manipulate the defense by alignment/matchups.

3) Helps the playcaller use the actual gameplan. You would be surprise how incredibly quick you have to be getting the next play call in. That way they don’t just go to old faithful every time.

4) if it’s a well coached opponent then you know they scouted your film for tendencies. If you are a good staff you do a self scout as well so you know what tendencies you showed. You take their defense and then have some kind of idea what they should do to you and allows you to prepare for it. So you give them the pre snap look of a tendency you have showed last week and then hit them with the counter, knowing you know that they know. (If that makes sense)

That’s just my first thoughts but this is an hour long clinic talk on why to script early plays.

This is pretty much it. Of course at the college level you know you are gonna get scouted, so they are probably gonna know your tendencies.  That's why you don't show your whole hand early in the season.  I would think basically the entire script is about tendencies, both your teams and theirs.  Again at the college level most of the time the kids are going to be able to execute the playbook. At least when they are fresh on the first series, if they don't brain fart.  Mostly I would use it to try and impose the tendencies we think that we are best able to on offense, while at the same time looking closely at the one or two weakest links you think you have identified on D.

While you think you may have identified a tendency (weakness) on film, you really don't know until you see how they react on game day to a mirror image play.  Most offensive formations are not like reinventing the wheel.  So if you can run some plays you think will work that also help you see if your assessment of a negative tendency.  It's not like anybody UT plays isn't going to have a myriad of folks combing over film.  I would be very keen on using the initial script to affirm any negative defensive tendency to take advantage of later.

Of course the Mike Tyson rule also applies, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

ALSO - I along with obviously so many had complete disgust with Greg Davis' overuse of the Bubble screen.  I used to scream out from section 31, "Thank you Greg Davis" as the kids would trot off and the punt team would come on.  I wanted to scream "fuck you!" But the "thank you " always drew giggle and laughing head shakes, so it worked.

[Jkwellborn 6653]

And yet, sometimes, on very rare occasions ... that WR screen on the first play of the game is epic.
 

There were three guys there and one of them missed what should have been a fairly routine tackle. Let’s not get too excited. Worthy showed out that game.