Maryland Shooter CR Thread

[zork 629]

 

[blackmarketbaby 118]

50 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So another honky incel decided to shoot up the joint.

Murica.

Another fresh take.

[Rip76 4,913]

4 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

And this whole thread is becoming useless because MSNBC is reporting that the suspect filed a defamation lawsuit against the newspaper that was thrown out in the courts.  So nothing Trump did likely had anything to do with this.

 

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Perhaps we have a crazy white guy problem 

Ramos white though.

[Burt 4,062]

We need to arm our journalists!

Edited June 29, 2018 by Burt

[washparkhorn 9,935]

Non-political point - Shooter’s threats should have caused the Baltimore Sun to take some precautions for this satellite paper. Litigation brings out the worst in relatively sane folks. When you have years of threats from an unstable individual, they should have been in a building with layers of protection. Unsuccessful litigants can perseverate over a loss in Court to the point they seek their own justice. 

 

Its not everyone’s preference, but I am damn glad to have at three attorneys in my office carrying concealed weapons.

 

Our mental health facilities have been gutted through austerity. Those were menacing tweets from the shooter (if they are indeed his messages). I am also a little surprised there wasn’t more intervention by the Sheriff earlier (perhaps there was). 

 

On on the plus side, that was a great reaction time by the Sheriff’s Department (60 seconds). They ran to the danger. I hope we are seeing a shift in tactics so shooters are neutralized quickly. One of the saddest aspects of Columbine was the first responders standing down as kids were being killled and wounded. It must haunt those the law enforcement officers who were ordered to wait while they knew the killings continued. 

There is a lot of rage out there. Economic insecurity continues to add stress and anger. Many are able to tough it out (which can be effective, but a good therapist is quicker). Some cross the line when they have nothing else to lose. 

We need to address the lack of mental health services available to those who need it.  And for goodness sake, when you have an active menace stalking a target, provide security - especially if you are in a building with zero security. 

[blackmarketbaby 118]

Cue AI

[Pods 7,526]

I guess they have blackmarketbaby pulling troll duty alone tonight. He seems lonely. 

[Helobious 9,480]

44 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

On on the plus side, that was a great reaction time by the Sheriff’s Department (60 seconds). They ran to the danger. I hope we are seeing a shift in tactics so shooters are neutralized quickly. 

Since Columbine, active shooter protocol calls for the first armed responders to make entry and challenge the shooter(s). This has been the case in virtually every mass shooting since Columbine, although usually the mass shooter surrenders or kills themselves before the cops get them. It’s hard to believe that people think that sitting outside and waiting is still the SOP. It hasn’t been for almost 20 years. The only exception that comes to mind is Parkland, but the school police guy & first couple cops to get there stayed outside out of cowardice, not because that was the correct strategy.

[washparkhorn 9,935]

Thanks Helo. That’s good news to me.  

In making the decision to shoot, are they using weapons loaded with ammunition that is likely to go through walls and kill/injure innocents?  That was an excuse used by the LEO commanders on the decision to wait after Columbine. 

[blackmarketbaby 118]

44 minutes ago, Pods said:

I guess they have blackmarketbaby pulling troll duty alone tonight. He seems lonely. 

Boo hoo

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Hey let's lay off even more reporters and editors and replace them with armed guards!

Who needs a First Amendment when we can just celebrate the Second? Maybe one day, news outlets will just be forts with gun-toting cops in them, protecting bots who give you the weather and the box scores and spew the propaganda from NewsOpoly, Inc, in Washington. 

[NWBuck 8,547]

As soon as I heard they took him alive, I knew that he was a white guy... I hate that that was my first thought. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There's no turning back from the course this country is on.

nah, it's called voting, which I doubt anyone around here does. 

[HenryJames 65,887]

Everyone voted for Gary Johnson. 

[DixonHur 11,171]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

nah, it's called voting, which I doubt anyone around here does. 

That would be true if we lived in a real democracy, but between gerrymandering and the electoral college, we have a rigged system.

Dems have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presidential elections, yet still lost 2 of them.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, NWBuck said:

As soon as I heard they took him alive, I knew that he was a white guy... I hate that that was my first thought. 

Like Stephen Paddock?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Like Stephen Paddock?

He was obviously white due to the firepower and methodology.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,533]

Saw Trump offered his "thoughts and prayers" on Twitter.

Everyone sleep well tonight.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Saw Trump offered his "thoughts and prayers" on Twitter.

Everyone sleep well tonight.

Guess he could have said, “ Stop wetting your pants under the desk and attack the shooter before he reloads,” but that would be slightly risky too.

 

Nothing Trump said would be received well by the left.  At a certain point you just say, “They’re gonna bitch no matter what” and move on.

 

There’s nothing he could have said that would change the situation.  What he said was appropriate.

[4th&Five 41,457]

There’s nothing he could have said because it’s not in his DNA to give a shit about anyone else but himself. That’s why he fucks up all these things. He simply doesn’t care. 

[BabaYaga 15,209]

Jarrod Ramos.  Unsuccessfully sued the paper in 2012 for defamation.  Then upheld in 2015 regarding a column by a writer about Ramos' guilty plea to criminal harassment. 

Summary

• contacted a woman from his hs on facebook. She barely remembered him but tried to be nice
• he ends up harassing her including calling her boss to try to get her fired.
• convicted with probation
• reporter writes about it as a "facebook can be dangerous" story
• he sues for defamation representing himself
• loses and loses on appeal with prejudice. Appellate judge orders him to pay court costs.

[Orca of Peace 109]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

That would be true if we lived in a real democracy, but between gerrymandering and the electoral college, we have a rigged system.

Dems have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presidential elections, yet still lost 2 of them.

if an incremental 110k Dems voted in the Rust Belt, we don't have the Trump era. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

Guy has a Spanish last name. Surprised Trump didn't go with Build That Wall instead of T&P.

[Turkleton 145]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

That would be true if we lived in a real democracy, but between gerrymandering and the electoral college, we have a rigged system.

Dems have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presidential elections, yet still lost 2 of them.

Sums it up right here, folks. Right out of the Chomsky playbook. Fuck America and Western culture.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, blackmarketbaby said:

Once again "both sides" thinking of gaining "political capital".

Never let a crisi( tragedy) go to waste.

[Anastasis 23,393]

15 hours ago, Newdoc said:

Probably a good idea to wait and see the motivation of the perp before we start assigning blame on rhetoric.  They haven't even finished counting bodies.

LOL. That's not how any of this works. 

[DDD Dad 14,251]

14 hours ago, Lat22 said:

How many of you lefties remember what this guy did? I didn’t think so. Didn’t fit the media narrative.

Whataboutism.

[Chad Fuck 17,559]

11 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

This is what cowardice and incompetence looks like.  

[Helobious 9,480]

8 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Thanks Helo. That’s good news to me.  

In making the decision to shoot, are they using weapons loaded with ammunition that is likely to go through walls and kill/injure innocents?  That was an excuse used by the LEO commanders on the decision to wait after Columbine. 

They just use whatever ammo they have on them at the time I believe. If the shooter is surrounded by innocents they won’t engage, but I doubt they worry about rounds going through walls too much if there’s a mass shooter in front of them. Goal #1 is neutralizing the shooter. If the shooter is still firing, they have to run past whatever wounded they come across and get to the shooter first. 

Source: Good friend is a cop & on the mighty Corpus Christi SWAT team. And I watch a lot of crime documentaries. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

These shootings happen so often the “Now is not the time.” shit should be forever retired.

[NWBuck 8,547]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

Like Stephen Paddock?

Sure- because he died at his own hands, not due to law enforcement.

[DixonHur 11,171]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

if an incremental 110k Dems voted in the Rust Belt, we don't have the Trump era. 

I wonder why they didn't...oh yeah...

22 million eligible voters — the overwhelming majority of which came from Democratic voting blocs — were eliminated from registration rolls nationwide just prior to the 2016 elections.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I wonder why they didn't...oh yeah...

22 million eligible voters — the overwhelming majority of which came from Democratic voting blocs — were eliminated from registration rolls nationwide just prior to the 2016 elections.

Is there any evidence a significant number of these voters showed up at the polling place to try to vote but were turned away for lack of registration?  Wouldn't there also be huge numbers of provisional ballots for these people? 

[DixonHur 11,171]

21 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Is there any evidence a significant number of these voters showed up at the polling place to try to vote but were turned away for lack of registration?  Wouldn't there also be huge numbers of provisional ballots for these people? 

 

 

 

I know correlation does not necessarily equal causation, but there certainly is an interesting correlation between states that polled in favor of Clinton a month before the election and those with the highest rates of provisional ballot rejection that ended up going to Trump.

Edited June 29, 2018 by DixonHur

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

 

7 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey.  So states had varying rejection rates for provisional ballots, and that means what? 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,342]

10 hours ago, Burt said:

We need to arm our journalists!

 

Yup. And add newsrooms to the list of schools, churches, mosques, hospitals, airports etc.... that need to have X-ray machines installed and heavily armed guards to protect us from ourselves.  'Merica. 

[DixonHur 11,171]

5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey.  So states had varying rejection rates for provisional ballots, and that means what? 

I said what I meant in my edit.  You may have responded before I posted it.  There is an interesting correlation between states that polled for Clinton just a month before the election, those that had the highest rate of rejected provisional ballots, and those that subsequently went for Trump.

[JBJ 3,648]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I said what I meant in my edit.  You may have responded before I posted it.  There is an interesting correlation between states that polled for Clinton just a month before the election, those that had the highest rate of rejected provisional ballots, and those that subsequently went for Trump.

I'd think that improperly cleaned rolls would have lower rates of rejected provisional ballots.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

10 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I said what I meant in my edit.  You may have responded before I posted it.  There is an interesting correlation between states that polled for Clinton just a month before the election, those that had the highest rate of rejected provisional ballots, and those that subsequently went for Trump.

I don't know.  I tend to think that if something nefarious were at play, someone would have put together a much better case than that for it.    There are lots of people who pay close attention to this stuff, and it would not be hard to come up with data showing, for example, that the margin of victory in state A was 80,000 votes; there were 150,000 provisional votes cast in that state; and 100,000 were rejected because the person had been wrongfully purged from the registration rolls.   Not saying it's impossible that it happened, but vague innuendo doesn't cut it. 

[DixonHur 11,171]

14 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I don't know.  I tend to think that if something nefarious were at play, someone would have put together a much better case than that for it.    There are lots of people who pay close attention to this stuff, and it would not be hard to come up with data showing, for example, that the margin of victory in state A was 80,000 votes; there were 150,000 provisional votes cast in that state; and 100,000 were rejected because the person had been wrongfully purged from the registration rolls.   Not saying it's impossible that it happened, but vague innuendo doesn't cut it. 

There were tons of accusations at the time and I'm sure that data exists, but I don't have the time nor inclination to dig into it.  Plus, who do you expect would have done something about it?  the GOP congress?  Trump's Justice Department?  The Trump appointed election board?

Not to mention we've been pinballing from from one controversy to another since the day Trump was elected. 

You asked for "any evidence", not the Holy Grail of indisputable evidence.  But I would add that the primary reason that provisional ballots were rejected was that the person's name wasn't on the voter rolls...remember the 22 million strong purge of the voter rolls?

I'm not presenting this as a FACT.  I'm answering the original statement that only 110k more votes were needed in key states to avoid Trump.  I just find it interesting that those states are the ones that polled for Clinton, and had the most rejected provisional ballots.  It could just be coincidence.

[wildcat09 29,226]

4 hours ago, DixonHur said:

That would be true if we lived in a real democracy, but between gerrymandering and the electoral college, we have a rigged system.

Dems have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 presidential elections, yet still lost 2 of them.

Republicans only ever need around 45% of House votes to win a majority in the House. Their advantage in certain states is even greater. That's no basis for legitimate representative government.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Republicans only ever need around 45% of House votes to win a majority in the House. Their advantage in certain states is even greater. That's no basis for legitimate representative government.

Most of that is not really gerrymandering.  It's because dem voters concentrate heavily in urban areas and repubs are more spread out in suburbs and rural areas.  

[Hate 20,103]

Weird how nobody has called for shotguns to be banned.  WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!! YOU KNOW....FACTS!!!!!  

[DixonHur 11,171]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Weird how nobody has called for shotguns to be banned.  WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!! YOU KNOW....FACTS!!!!!  

Has anyone ever called for a ban on shotguns?

[Hate 20,103]

Why wouldn’t you in this case? Does 5 dead people not meet the threshold? Is it because they are adults?

[BabaYaga 15,209]

3 hours ago, Hate said:

Weird how nobody has called for shotguns to be banned.  WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!! YOU KNOW....FACTS!!!!!  

Wasn't an evil, black, assault, tactical, high-capacity shotgun...with one of those, barrel thingy's on it and a chainsaw bayonet attachment.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

It’s like y’all want to talk about guns or something.  Okay I’ll play...

Thank god the dude didn’t have an AR-15 or there would be twice as many dead.

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

4 hours ago, Hate said:

Weird how nobody has called for shotguns to be banned.  WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!! YOU KNOW....FACTS!!!!!  

Hahahahahaha totally bro! 

The argument has never been to ban guns, it's to ban assault rifles, mods that make automatic weapons, and weapons of war to limit the casualty count when someone who is determined to kill a group, does. Imagine the fall out here if he had an AR with bump stock and extended mags. 

And I know, yall hunters out there NEED your M4s with armor piercing rounds to kill those hill country deer...and cause MURICA. 

I mean, I for one hate that I can't just sling my rpg around my shoulder when going out around town to prove how big my cock is. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by SmokeyTheBear

[seven 1,366]

I've never really wanted to ban shotguns, but if hate wants to I won't get in his way 

[jimmyjazz 45,546]

Oh, you've done it now, because somebody's sister's lesbian niece who is a grad student at Brown is doing her thesis on "BAN ALL WEAPONZ" and so that's the message.  Duh.