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ICE spokesman: “I was asked to lie, so I quit” - agents show up during interview

Pancho

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3234

Posted
Posted

this sounds pretty far-fetched.  the headline is similar to the slogan yes, but then taking 14 (13) points and 88 as a statistical reference and interpreting that as some sort of nazi propaganda is pretty tin-foil hat. 

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not fair to Hitler to make the Trump comparison.

Hitler actually spent time in prison and was a dog lover. 

and he could paint at least passably well.  arnold böcklin, his favorite painter, influenced a lot of artists.  here's one i really like:

playing-in-the-waves-1883.jpg!Large.jpg

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

this sounds pretty far-fetched.  the headline is similar to the slogan yes, but then taking 14 (13) points and 88 as a statistical reference and interpreting that as some sort of nazi propaganda is pretty tin-foil hat. 

Well, you are misstating the premise of those who believe that it’s not a coincidence.  The number of points has jack shit to do with the theory.

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5509

Posted
Posted

So they secretly code some sort of message into a DHS report for what reason again? Can’t they just send an email or text like the rest of us? Just shocked that this comes after the Supreme Court approval of the Travel ban, and a retiring Supreme Court Justice. 

Same cloth as the Obama birther people just other side of the spectrum. Good thing you bozos only represent a small faction of your respective political affiliation.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, hpslugga said:

What’s true is that your responses, thus far, are non-responsive.

No, I cannot explain the insanity of the tilters right now.

the frenzy is real as hell though.

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

this sounds pretty far-fetched.  the headline is similar to the slogan yes, but then taking 14 (13) points and 88 as a statistical reference and interpreting that as some sort of nazi propaganda is pretty tin-foil hat. 

There is no reason to believe that ICE is fully infiltrated by white supremacists. There is reason to believe that the author of the document is, however, and perhaps a few others working together. Besides, there are white supremacists in this country. Don't you think they'd want to work for ICE?

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

I rest my case 

Explain aggy.

Explain women*.

Explain people on tilt over trump.

 

They all fucking crazy and not being able to rationalize it does not mean the lunacy/ delusion/ hysteria isn’t there.

 

* joking here.

Edited by slorch
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Js1

Js1 85085

Posted
Posted

Why do people still engage Slorch?

He clearly wasted all of his functioning brain cells on pulling himself up by his bootstraps, filling in the coloring book application to Tech and then stomping on everyone else below him with his bootstraps superiority.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Mole said:

If Nazis are secretly sending messages through DHS press releases, that's obviously a problem, but that's seriously nuts and there just might be a reasonable explanation for this.

It also reminds me a little bit of this http://lennonmurdertruth.com/ where it's claimed that Stephen King teamed up with Nixon and Reagan to murder John Lennon and they communicated through secret messages in Time Magazine.

It's not similar to that at all.

This isn't a weird conspiracy theory involving complex plans and various disparate actors. It's a white supremacist DHS worker flying his flag through a press release using language that would only be noticed by fellow white supremacists and anti-racist leftist that centrist spend their whole centrist lives yelling at. No far-reaching DHS Nazi conspiracy necessary. No complicity from higher-ups needed. Just a racist piece of shit working for the DHS being cute.

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3234

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, scottsins said:

Well, you are misstating the premise of those who believe that it’s not a coincidence.  The number of points has jack shit to do with the theory.

i've never heard any of this before so i was going off what was said upthread.

14 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Using 14 words isn't special.

Lots of things start with "We must secure".

88 is a normal statistical sample size to reference.

It's normal to use 14 points in an article.

The DHS and ICE are not chock full of white supremacists.

Everything is fine.

None of this means anything.

 

 

13 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15/we-must-secure-border-and-build-wall-make-america-safe-again

The 14 Words:
We Must Secure The Existence Of Our People And A Future For White Children.

DHS Headline:
We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again

14 points

88 as statistical sample size

 

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Ragnarok

Ragnarok 103

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, udaydanceparty said:

Seeing stories like this pop up is a sign the left has almost reached rock bottom.   I never thought I'd see such a large group of people go through this level of cognitive dissonance over losing an election.

Yeah, this more than a little crazy.  I'm not sure where it came from.  I will admit the guy in the video from the OP seemed credible.

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Mole

Mole 4319

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

It's not similar to that at all.

This isn't a weird conspiracy theory involving complex plans and various disparate actors. It's a white supremacist DHS worker flying his flag through a press release using language that would only be noticed by fellow white supremacists and anti-racist leftist that centrist spend their whole centrist lives yelling at. No far-reaching DHS Nazi conspiracy necessary. No complicity from higher-ups needed. Just a racist piece of shit working for the DHS being cute.

Secret messages transmitted through the media, yeah no difference at all. Going from, "the's weird" to "SECRET NAZI" is wheels off. The hysteria is getting out of control.

Since you brought up the 14 bullet points, care to comment on how there are actually 13? Those kinds of things matter.

And in the context of a larger document, using 88 makes perfect sense to me. If I were walking someone through the data (assuming that I'm understanding what is actually being communicated there), using 88 is probably more helpful than using a percentage of the percentage.

So I'm left with the "We must secure" line. It's admittedly a little creepy, but there are Bible code and Nostradamus predictions that are also eerie. Assume for a second that it could have been a coincidence, how likely is it that whoever wrote the headline would be familiar with the White Supremacist code? Try out alternative versions of the headline:

The Border Must Be Secured...

We Need to Secure the Border...

If I didn't know the 14/88 thing (which I didn't until about 24 hours ago), I'd probably write it similarly. It's much clearer and more direct than the alternatives.

Look, if there are secret Nazis in government, they need to be gone immediately, but this is nuts.

 

Edited to add: this is distracting from the video in the OP which should be enraging.

Edited by Mole
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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Not cool dude. Seriously. We are better than that. You are better than that. Find a different way . . . or just don’t say anything. 

He’s not better than that. He also got 5 likes for that. 

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Bat Guano

Bat Guano 359

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mole said:

And in the context of a larger document, using 88 makes perfect sense to me. If I were walking someone through the data (assuming that I'm understanding what is actually being communicated there), using 88 is probably more helpful than using a percentage of the percentage.
 

Doesn't make any sense to me at all. 13/88 = 14.8%. Would it not have made sense to you if the  line read:

"On average, out of 100 claims that pass the credible fear screening, fewer than 15 will ultimately result in a grant of asylum."?

Means the same thing, and 'X out of 100' is a much more common example. At least in this country, where we use the decimal numbering system. Use of 88 as the denominator seems gratuitous. Y'know, almost as if it's meant to send a message of some kind....

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JBJ

JBJ 3648

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, JBJ said:

I would bet it's 88 out of 100 pass screening but only 13 are granted.  Either way it is poorly written.

Yep:

Quote

DHS found a credible fear in 88 percent of claims adjudicated.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-jeff-sessions-delivers-remarks-executive-office-immigration-review

Alternatively:

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN15Y04A

Edited by JBJ
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Mole

Mole 4319

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bat Guano said:

Doesn't make any sense to me at all. 13/88 = 14.8%. Would it not have made sense to you if the  line read:

"On average, out of 100 claims that pass the credible fear screening, fewer than 15 will ultimately result in a grant of asylum."?

Means the same thing, and 'X out of 100' is a much more common example. At least in this country, where we use the decimal numbering system. Use of 88 as the denominator seems gratuitous. Y'know, almost as if it's meant to send a message of some kind....

It depends on if you want to view those ~13 in the context of those passing the credible fear screening or the context of everyone. The context of everyone might be more meaningful vs. the percent of a subpopulation. It's admittedly incredibly awkward, but there's a less nefarious and insane explanation that makes as much sense. My uninformed guess is that those bullets (13, not 14 as was claimed) were pulled from some larger document. In a larger document, explaining the data this way could make perfect sense, but out of context it might look a little funny.

Keep in mind, this is a pretty extraordinary claim - that a Nazi is sending signals through DHS press releases. On its face, that's nuts. If there's a reasonable explanation that makes sense, I'm inclined to believe it. The alternative seems really unlikely. Pre-Trump, I think most of this board would agree with that statement.

There are two reasons why this matters. First, it distracts from a seriously messed up situation that is real. If I were the conspiratorial type, I'd blame these claims on Russian trolls. There's a real problem and people are claiming secret Nazi messages instead of addressing it.

The other problem is that it creates a real credibility issue. The unhinged left video starts to have a little more weight. If this kind of Alex Jones type thinking gains traction among those opposed to Trump, how can anyone actually discuss the problems with Trump reasonably? There's already a huge disconnect between how Trump is portrayed and what he actually says (see the "animals" comment and the actual context of what he said).

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45538

Posted
Posted

I don't think it's absurd.  I think it's entirely possible that some low-level copy editor (or whatever they call them) loaded the release with these numeric hints as a sort of signal that "hey, we work here too".  It doesn't have to be an indictment of the entire organization.  These days just about anything can get approved for release with very little scrutiny.  I sure wouldn't have had any reason to flag oddities like the structure and wording of the headline or the use of 88 in the statistics.  (I would have probably pushed back that the latter didn't really make a lot of sense, but even a rewrite could have included the 88 . . . "88 out of 100", etc.)

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Mole said:

Keep in mind, this is a pretty extraordinary claim - that a Nazi is sending signals through DHS press releases. On its face, that's nuts.

It's extraordinary to think that a white supremacist working for DHS threw some little signals into a press release?

What part of it is extraordinary, specifically?

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25766

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, udaydanceparty said:

Seeing stories like this pop up is a sign the left has almost reached rock bottom.   I never thought I'd see such a large group of people go through this level of cognitive dissonance over losing an election.

You... really think this is about "losing an election?" You really think this is about "the left?"

Remind me again what about Trump is Conservative? Because I've always associated being Conservative with strong morals and a strong foundation in Christianity (don't make me laugh), keeping one's hands away from business (the tariffs and friendship with Putin betray an extremely Socialist agenda), and if you want to go back to pre-Reagan-era Conservatism like the 1960s, racism (OK, one out of three ain't bad). I've also considered being strong with foreign policy and the military Conservative (he has undermined our military repeatedly and has basically been sucking Putin's commie cock).

Do you know why con artists almost never get caught? It's because their victims refuse to accept that they were victimized, or are to embarrassed of their own failure to report the crime to the police. 

Yeah, I'm sad about "losing the election," because we all lost the election. You did far more than I did, because you're actually dumb enough to support this rancid motherfucker.

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Mole

Mole 4319

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's extraordinary to think that a white supremacist working for DHS threw some little signals into a press release?

What part of it is extraordinary, specifically?

 

As we continue to ignore the real and messed up situation in the video and discuss a pizzagate-like fantasy...

All of it. All of it is extraordinary and highly unlikely to the point of being absurd. Specifically, there's not a word in there that isn't ludicrous. It's Pizzagate, black helicopters, Stephen King killed John Lennon, chemtrails, the Bible code, the aliens guy, etc. It takes a tiny nugget of truth and extrapolates a scenario that is so unlikely that it defies belief or rational discussion.

I wouldn't doubt that there are white supremacists working for DHS, but I'd bet that it's at a rate similar to the rest of the population, which is to say not very many - particularly for people who are up on the Nazi lingo enough to send these secret Nazi signals, including 13 bullet points that are somehow seen as 14 by those who have cracked the code. Those are some serious skills.

What's more likely, that the writer of this memo was part of the small portion of the population that would know and support these signals decided to send this message for some unknown purpose or we're seeing shapes in the clouds? Are there other secret Nazi messages on the DHS website or is this the only one?

None of it makes sense. Did the Bible predict 9/11? Is there a secret message in this post? Meg sees catheters

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Mole said:

As we continue to ignore the real and messed up situation in the video and discuss a pizzagate-like fantasy...

It's absolutely nothing like Pizzagate. Pizzagate was a conspiracy that a far-reaching number of elected officials and powerful people were speaking in code about organized child rape dungeons and the trading and movement of child sex slaves.

I am saying that a single actor in the DHS wrote an article flying a white supremacy flag that most people wouldn't even notice.

To argue that those two are in any way similar is profoundly dishonest.

Quote

All of it. All of it is extraordinary and highly unlikely to the point of being absurd. Specifically, there's not a word in there that isn't ludicrous.

That's not specific. "All of it" is the opposite of specific. You cannot come up with a specific part of my argument that is extraordinary, because there is nothing extraordinary about it.

You're ratcheting up rhetoric because you don't actually have anything to argue. You want me to be making wild, far-reaching claims because you want to argue with me but you have nothing specific to argue against.

Quote

It takes a tiny nugget of truth and extrapolates a scenario that is so unlikely that it defies belief or rational discussion.

I wouldn't doubt that there are white supremacists working for DHS, but I'd bet that it's at a rate similar to the rest of the population, which is to say not very many - particularly for people who are up on the Nazi lingo enough to send these secret Nazi signals, including 13 bullet points that are somehow seen as 14 by those who have cracked the code.

So you realize that the DHS has >1 white supremacists working for it, but it's ridiculous to think that one of those would do something indicative of their white supremacy?

As far as how secret and unknowable the 1488 thing is, do not confuse your ignorance for other people's ignorance. Just because you just learned about it doesn't mean it didn't exist until it entered your mind.

 

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Pods

Pods 7525

Posted
Posted (edited)

She's wrong on the number of bullet points, there are 14. Big fucking deal. The formatting is all wonky because it was made by idiots. There are 13 bulleted points, but there are also two other sections under the heading, one entirely italicized for no reason and the other entirely bolded for no reason. 


She is absolutely right that there are 14 words in the title and it begins with the same exact same four words that the White Supremacist 14 Words starts with.

The 14 Words:
We Must Secure The Existence Of Our People And A Future For White Children.

DHS 14 word Headline:
We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again

If you could calculate out the odds of both of those things happening independently, it's fairly remote, but possible.

That is the first time I have ever seen 88 used as a reference for a sample size. You can tell the standard for using 100% is strong, in this very thread, people are assuming that when they say 88, they are referring to 88 out of 100 overall immigrants passing the credible fear test, but they DO NOT say that. They only say 88 people who've passed the credible fear test.

On average, out of 88 claims that pass the credible fear screening, fewer than 13 will ultimately result in a grant of asylum.

They give no reference to what the original sample of people they are drawn from is. The 88 stands alone and I can think of no reasonable reason that someone would use that as a statistical sample size reference. 

It's fucking weird as shit at least and the Trump admin has lost any potential benefit of the doubt. 

Edited by Pods
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

Posted
Posted (edited)

The guys in the White House are some of the best trolls and media manipulators I’ve seen.

Miller, Scavino, Parscale, Kushner 

There’s your four horsemen.  

Middle age white guys that spent the last 15 years trolling each other on the internet only to rise to the highest office and troll the entire fucking world. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The heading is really the only thing one can cling to, and it's not nearly as odd as enjoying dominoes better with cheese than sauce.

"Cling to"? The headline is a mirror of a very common white supremacist phrase, not just in how it begins, but in its political message and in the number of words used.

That's it. No grand conspiracy about the DHS is grounded in acknowledging this headline was written by a white supremacist for white supremacists to see. A single DHS employee flew the white power flag.

How you people equate that to Pizzagate is absurd.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18646

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, udaydanceparty said:

Seeing stories like this pop up is a sign the left has almost reached rock bottom.   I never thought I'd see such a large group of people go through this level of cognitive dissonance over losing an election.

You must not have read much during the Clinton and Obama administrations.

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