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Saudi blood money combo tour discussion

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3975

Posted
Posted

What are you referring to?

According to a Wall Street Journal report, PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan told staff in a Thursday meeting that the cost to fight LIV Golf was unsustainable.

“We cannot compete with a foreign government with unlimited money,’’ Monahan said to Tour employees according to the Wall Street Journal report. “We waited to be in the strongest possible position to get this deal in place.’’
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Steel Shank

Steel Shank 9421

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4 hours ago, Fastbreak said:


According to a Wall Street Journal report, PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan told staff in a Thursday meeting that the cost to fight LIV Golf was unsustainable.

“We cannot compete with a foreign government with unlimited money,’’ Monahan said to Tour employees according to the Wall Street Journal report. “We waited to be in the strongest possible position to get this deal in place.’’

My question is why did the PIF have a case in the first place? Maybe we should start there. Could the Saudis do the same with the NFL or NBA?

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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My question is why did the PIF have a case in the first place? Maybe we should start there. Could the Saudis do the same with the NFL or NBA?

The case just needed some semblance of merit if the goal wasn’t to win, but drag it out and create leverage for discussions about buying in.

I’d guess the disjointed team ownership model of NFL/NBA/MLB make it much more difficult for PIF to get their foot in the door. I’d imagine they’d have to not only buy enough teams to have relevance, but pay off the other clubs just to win the right to buy them in the first place.
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Steel Shank

Steel Shank 9421

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8 minutes ago, Lurch said:


The case just needed some semblance of merit if the goal wasn’t to win, but drag it out and create leverage for discussions about buying in.

I’d guess the disjointed team ownership model of NFL/NBA/MLB make it much more difficult for PIF to get their foot in the door. I’d imagine they’d have to not only buy enough teams to have relevance, but pay off the other clubs just to win the right to buy them in the first place.

So the Saudis forced their way into a 49% stake, correct? I also wonder if the PGA Tour did not want the litigation to continue regardless of cost. (Sorry of already discussed.)

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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So the Saudis forced their way into a 49% stake, correct? I also wonder if the PGA Tour did not want the litigation to continue regardless of cost. (Sorry of already discussed.)

Well, they negotiated the right to purchase up to 49%, yes.

Yeah, much speculation that regardless of the legal fees, there were other reasons to shut it down as quickly as possible. Discovery almost always reveals embarrassing emails, for example. They also we’re struggling with title sponsors at least in part due to ongoing uncertainties. Finally there is FTC investigations underway due to their initial actions re LIV, so they were already walking in a minefield and every subsequent move in the PGA vs LIV lawsuits introduced more risk via FTC
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dcar00

dcar00 14148

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3 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

And he was referring to the costs of fighting the lawsuits not the ability to compete as a tour. And a “takeover” entails change of control which is not the case here. 

well yeah but other than that...

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5539

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6 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

IMO - that is just grandstanding by a politician. The merger of sports leagues doesn't really impact the general consumer; otherwise the ABA and NBA championships would still exist, along with the AFL/NFL, and if I recall there were some attempts at something with tennis (but maybe that was the team tennis, too lazy to look it up).

 

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smwhorn

smwhorn 482

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16 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

IMO - that is just grandstanding by a politician. The merger of sports leagues doesn't really impact the general consumer; otherwise the ABA and NBA championships would still exist, along with the AFL/NFL, and if I recall there were some attempts at something with tennis (but maybe that was the team tennis, too lazy to look it up).

 

Haven't read any of the articles but my guess is the concern of a foreign gov't taking active ownership and partial control.  Just a guess though.  

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Fastbreak

Fastbreak 3975

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IMO - that is just grandstanding by a politician. The merger of sports leagues doesn't really impact the general consumer; otherwise the ABA and NBA championships would still exist, along with the AFL/NFL, and if I recall there were some attempts at something with tennis (but maybe that was the team tennis, too lazy to look it up).
 

I remember when we let the viet cong do a hostile merger of the ABA and NBA, those were good times.
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Sandman

Sandman 3403

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ef6aa7ee-0ac9-11ee-997e-7710367054a0?shareToken=d2ead753c0d04ee6b15a1ffd386281cf

Now it seems that everyone will get their share of the blood money. I wonder if any will turn it down?

Quote

Golf’s Saudi investors are planning a compensation fund for players such as Rory McIlroy and Jon Rahm who stayed loyal to the PGA Tour and missed out on hundreds of millions of dollars to join the breakaway LIV competition.

The move follows last week’s peace deal in which Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund (PIF) will effectively bankroll the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour via a new joint venture.

The plan would allow players such as Phil Mickelson, Lee Westwood and Sergio García to keep the money they were paid to join LIV Golf but would also hand leading players on the PGA Tour substantial payments from the new entity to “level up” their financial rewards, according to a source with knowledge of the proposal.

The amount of money the players would receive has not yet been determined, and players preparing for this week’s US Open still do not have any details of how the new partnership will work or how it will shape the tour.

 

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Blotto

Blotto 23486

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I don't know how much they thought this merger through. I think they hurriedly put together a financial framework regarding the ownership piece without much thought to how these leagues would merge. 

1.) They are still pretending that there will be a LIV tour next year? What the fuck is the point of joining the two leagues if you dont recombine the talent at the first opportunity

2.) They are still talking about punishment for the LIV guys? Here's a quote from Rory:

Quote

“The people who left the PGA Tour irreparably harmed this tour, started litigation against it. We can’t just welcome them back in. That’s not going to happen. I think that was the one thing that Jay was trying to get across yesterday is like, ‘Guys, we’re not just going to bring these guys back in and pretend like nothing has happened.’ That is not going to happen.”

Here's one from Dunne: 

Quote

"I think we would form a panel, including Tour players, that would evaluate what the terms would be," Dunne said, via ESPN. "Remember, they're coming back to compete on the Tour, so they have to be confident that they would be good enough to continue to play, and they have to be willing to incur the penalty for having gone. … Players on the LIV [tour] that wanted to reinstate into the PGA Tour would go through a process [and] suspension. Whatever the penalty was, they'd have to decide whether they wanted to do that or not and then they could play."

That seems like a suboptimal way of mending relationships. If the PGA is done fighting with LIV Tour and the Saudis, they should also be done fighting with the players from LIV as well. 

3.) Jimmy Dunne is on record that PGA players will get equity in the new league, but LIV players wont:

Quote

There is still much to be learned, but PGA Tour policy board member Jimmy Dunne, who helped broker the new deal, told ESPN that plans are being formulated for the various scenarios.

Dunne said current PGA Tour members would receive equity shares in the new for-profit company with a formula that has not yet been determined, while the players who left for LIV Golf would not be allowed to receive those shares.

"The new [company] would grow, and the [current PGA Tour] players would get a piece of equity that would enhance and increase in value as time went on," Dunne told ESPN. "There would have to be some kind of formulaic decision on how to do that. It would be a process to determine what would be a fair mechanism that would be really beneficial to our players.”

 

This entire "deal" still seems like a clusterfuck to me, and I'm not convinced it still wont fall apart (say 5-10%chance). 

 

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Mileslong

Mileslong 4728

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So the LIV players and lawyers were crying that the PGA Tour combined with the DP tour was an illegal monopoly that must be broken up for free competition.

So what the fuck is this new entity then where all three tours are combined, so this isn’t a monopoly? I would hope that the LIV players won’t play in it because that would be hypocritical right?

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Steel Shank

Steel Shank 9421

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On 6/11/2023 at 12:47 PM, Steel Shank said:

My question is why did the PIF have a case in the first place? Maybe we should start there. Could the Saudis do the same with the NFL or NBA?

 

On 6/11/2023 at 1:09 PM, Lurch said:


The case just needed some semblance of merit if the goal wasn’t to win, but drag it out and create leverage for discussions about buying in.

I’d guess the disjointed team ownership model of NFL/NBA/MLB make it much more difficult for PIF to get their foot in the door. I’d imagine they’d have to not only buy enough teams to have relevance, but pay off the other clubs just to win the right to buy them in the first place.

Hey, Qatar, come on down!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37899964/qatar-buying-stake-wizards-capitals-mystics-reports-say

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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5 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

that is an organized performance, not really a flash mob - pretty sure they were paid performers

Which is especially funny because the typical golf fan is the last person who would find this remotely entertaining 

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Blotto

Blotto 23486

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After all his anti-LIV bluster and Woah is me, I'm a sacrificial lamb performance, it turns out Rory was over in Dubai meeting with Al-Rumayyan in November? Its kind of amusing to me that he bitched about being kept in the dark about the merger, while at the same time not publicly disclosing he also met with the Saudis.

Quote

In the same email to Dunne, Devlin said he had helped arrange for McIlroy to meet with Al-Rumayyan in Dubai the previous month. McIlroy has been one of the PGA Tour's most outspoken supporters during its battle with LIV Golf.

"It was a very cordial and constructive meeting," Devlin wrote. "His Excellency has great ambitions to support, grow and [modernize] the sport and is clearly well equipped to fund these goals. He has been frustrated by his inability to engage constructively with the PGA [Tour]. Rory made it clear that in accepting the meeting he was speaking only for himself, although he believes his views are broadly shared by Tiger and the other top players -- he also [emphasized] he was seeking no personal financial gain, he was simply trying to unify the game."

I'm sure none of it was for your financial gain, Rory. That's almost always the case when you keep the meeting a secret. 

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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Reminder of Rory’s position last summer



I’ve not seen or heard anything from him that match your characterization. That he would meet with PIF and that he was pissed not to be involved in the negotiations seems reasonable to me.

And fuck yeah he’s all about the money. “Play better” is *his* quote to the golfers that want more
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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15040

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When the LIV Tour arrived, I was angry at the players who defected. When the PGA Tour decided to team up with the Saudi’s I was livid.

During this whole soap opera I likened the situation to the USFL and thought that the PGA should have been able to fend off the LIV Tour. However, I’ve now completely  changed my mind., We should all be extremely concerned about what has happened, because this isn’t about golf, this is about overwhelming wealth controlling all of our lives. 

The PGA’s position in court is accurate. The Saudi’s have unlimited wealth to buy anything they want. We all know it makes no economic sense whatsoever for Koepka to be paid $100m for a little bit of crap golf, but the Saudi’s can do it because the royal family has stolen its country’s wealth for decades.  

If you aren’t paying attention to this, you should.  Russian oligarchs, the Saudi’s and other billionaire blood money is amassing so much wealth they are buying everything out there: land, real estate, sports clubs, etc.  You can’t compete against unlimited wealth.  

When I saw that several players from the PGA Tour show on Netflix called Drive had defected to LIV right after taping of the show, I realized the PGA Tour was screwed. 

We all better start fixing this wealth inequality issue or things are not going to end well for 90% of the world.  

 

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C-Man

C-Man 27183

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23 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

So is this stuff that will likely be incorporated into what the PGA Tour looks like now or these were things that Al-Rumayyan wanted in the deal at one point? If it's the latter, I can't see myself following golf very much once it goes down that path. I love the game and will continue to play it but fuck watching shit that may or may not include flash mobs on tee boxes.

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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So is this stuff that will likely be incorporated into what the PGA Tour looks like now or these were things that Al-Rumayyan wanted in the deal at one point? If it's the latter, I can't see myself following golf very much once it goes down that path. I love the game and will continue to play it but fuck watching shit that may or may not include flash mobs on tee boxes.

It looks like the PIFs proposal to PGAT, as it is totally one sided. I doubt the current arrangement looks anything like this
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heso

heso 2785

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LIV has consistently tried to operate as if there is some untapped market share of golf fans that aren’t middle aged white men. They are a handful of out of touch rich old guys and Saudi Arabians trying to create a golf league for their made up caricature of a golf fan when they asked themselves “if there was a 23 year old golf fan that didn’t like traditional golf tournaments, what would they like?” And then they came up with those ideas themselves and ran with it. 

It’s the “how do you do fellow kids” meme played out in real life. 

There isn’t a single thing that LIV does better than the pga tour at putting on a golf tournament. But because the players are getting paid obscene amounts of money, they act like it’s way better. And even if the process of playing in a LIV golf tournament IS better for the player, it doesn’t mean shit because as a business the players aren’t the customers. Bryson and Phil are the only two people that seem to have even bought into the idea of the team as a brand bullshit and they are two of the most out of touch characters on tour. And I’m not even sure Phil is doing anything other than playing the part because they handed him a dump truck full of cash. 

It’s such a clown show that I’ve wondered if it wasn’t devised specifically for this purpose of trying to do everything as different as possible from the pga tour, but as much talent as possible, and then draw it out as long as possible in court to try to get the pga tour to the negotiating table and see what we can get. That the Liv tour itself didn’t need to have any real viability or sustainability, it just served as a tool to get to the table. The only way that play works is if you have completely unlimited money because of the sums it would take to pry talent away from the tour. And the only people that could possibly do that is the Saudis because they are the only entity that has completely unlimited money.

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