American "Passport Bro" culture (because they can't get significant others here in America)

[Bevo 13,570]

4 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Just a bunch of dorks with no game. With all the dating apps and bullshit available now it takes like 2 hours of bullshit to get a broad to come over and smash 

That sounds like too much work.

[52-80 19,147]

5 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Something like 20% of single men between the ages of 25-35 are having 80% of sex in the US. Doesn’t shock me that those with the means and opportunity are looking for pussy abroad. The dating world has changed a bunch in the last decade.

[52-80 19,147]

3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Counterpoint: I hear it takes five years to adopt a healthy white baby.

white babies aren't seasoned enough with just a few years

[FartingMonk 3,606]

The Navy invented passport bros.  Those dudes retire at 38-40 years old.  Move to the Philippines or Thailand and just live large off of their retirement check.  

[CleverNickname 1,308]

7 hours ago, CHIEF said:

Average women getting a booty call from a horny guy that is out of their league only to think that is the kind of guy that is her new norm and not the exception.

Eh, that's a little close to Red Pill logic for my liking. But it also true that American women with jobs & education don't want to settle for being bang maids for slobs. If they can amazon a zillion toys (& bang hot dudes no strings?) and avoid scraping stale urine off the base of the toilet, I get it.

[SimonBolivar 10,957]

23 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

Eh, that's a little close to Red Pill logic for my liking. But it also true that American women with jobs & education don't want to settle for being bang maids for slobs. If they can amazon a zillion toys (& bang hot dudes no strings?) and avoid scraping stale urine off the base of the toilet, I get it.

This would make sense to me if there were a lot of middling women out there that couldn't find men as their standards are too high. That doesn't seem to be the case and your average 5 or 6 seems able to find relationships just fine if they want them.

[Pancho 44,719]

11 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Something like 20% of single men between the ages of 25-35 are having 80% of sex in the US. Doesn’t shock me that those with the means and opportunity are looking for pussy abroad. The dating world has changed a bunch in the last decade.

Did you just make this statistic up out of nowhere?

 

8 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

Are you in Austin? Wait a few years till your mid 40s and try to find a serious relationship online (and not a fucking hookup) with an Austin woman who:

• Isn't religious or "spiritual/horoscope/astrology" fixated
• Doesn't have any kids and/or isn't constantly fighting with their ex over some bullshit
• Isn't 100% batshit crazy....you want 50% crazy or less

They may exist in Austin, but they're approaching unicorn status. I have friends in Austin who are late 40's - early 50s still searching and they're hating life.

 

You could say the same thing about men, right?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

8 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

Are you in Austin? Wait a few years till your mid 40s and try to find a serious relationship online (and not a fucking hookup) with an Austin woman who:

• Isn't religious or "spiritual/horoscope/astrology" fixated
• Doesn't have any kids and/or isn't constantly fighting with their ex over some bullshit
• Isn't 100% batshit crazy....you want 50% crazy or less

They may exist in Austin, but they're approaching unicorn status. I have friends in Austin who are late 40's - early 50s still searching and they're hating life.

I lucked out meeting a young latina in Mexico who hates religion and has no kids or ex husbands. She's probably 75% crazy, but you can't have everything.

as a counterpoint, I've seen a few acquaintances in the late 40s/early 50s who want the hot, single 30 yo woman who doesn't have or want kids.  If they look in their age group, they can find women with children who are in high school or college. The kids will be gone soon. Sure, the woman is 50 and looks like it but it doesn't mean she looks 70. Not to mention the guy usually looks his age as well.

[TKthunder2 4,985]

17 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

This would make sense to me if there were a lot of middling women out there that couldn't find men as their standards are too high. That doesn't seem to be the case and your average 5 or 6 seems able to find relationships just fine if they want them.

There are a lot of middling women out there. I have two just in my family alone and they have friends all in the same boat. Most of the are attractive enough to get get dates but their standards are all fucked up. They all have college degrees and think they are 8-10s when really they are all 5-7s. (Go watch one of these YouTube video where they ask a group of women to rank themselves, and then have the men come in a correct them).

When they can easily out kick their coverage and hookup with a top 20% guy, they think they deserve to settle down with that same level and are too delusional with their own self worth to recognize that they are just one night stand material and not marriage material.

They all think they deserve a fit 6ft tall guy with a college degree, 6 figure white collar job and a full head of hair, because that’s what happened with their few friends that got married either just after college or the former single 8-10s they knew all settled down with after a few years of clubbing/partying.

The top 20% of men aren’t looking to settle down with a 35 year old woman. When they are ready they’ll find a 25 year old that has fewer sexual partners and still has ample time to produce children.

If these women could look past men that have a single “flaw” (going bald, overweight, short, blue collar) they could be happy, but with social media and online dating they compare themselves to their friends and partners to their hookups and would feel shame for settling when they know they could sleep with more attractive men with just a few swipes…until they can’t anymore.

This new culture has made a bunch of unhappy men in their 20-30s and is making a bunch of unhappy women in their 30-40s. I’m very happy I’m already married and don’t have to deal with this shit.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

Yeah, there were some things in CHIEF's post that made me raise my eyebrows in a not-so-great way. The women being "way out of touch with reality" concept is funny to me, because historically to the point that it's been a punchline of hundreds of jokes, just on this website, every week, it's old people. Old people are out of touch with reality. And not only that, most of them are aggressively wired to attempt to make their own reality all they see. And that's not a dig, that's literally just a fact of life. The older you get, the more entrenched you become in your ideas as well as your life...your routine, who you see, what you do, how you feel, etc. You're not out learning new things, changing with the times, etc. That's literally the normal life cycle. 

The problem these days, is things are changing so fast that not only old people can't handle it, but older middle age people can't handle it. It took human beings thousands of years to go from hunting, to farming, to the Renaissance. Now in the past 100 years women can vote, black people have equal rights, religion is in decline, some kids pick their own gender, the Internet exists, etc. It's overwhelming. And unfortunately this helps unlock the rage and hatred in human being hearts, and shit spirals from there.

I have my own pet theory as to one of the reasons why education is suffering in this country...outside of all the obvious reasons. One is because there's no longer a massive, massive fucking talent pool of intelligent women, wildly intelligent women, who were basically given the choice of being a teacher, stewardess, secretary, or nurse as their careers. Now they have equality and are getting high paying jobs, C-suit level gigs, attorneys, lawyers, and lots of men fucking hate that. Because it makes their own success more difficult, and removes a hierarchy that they relied upon for their own self esteem. And you have assholes like Passport Bro who just call American women entitled, for having the audacity to seek a partner who is educated, who they're attracted to, who isn't a chauvinist pig who's masculinity isn't imperiled because they have to cook some meals and do household chores and shit that forever was labeled as "women's work." Basically, they're pissed that women want the same shit they've been demanding of women for the history of fucking time. Well, maybe not the intelligent part. There's a huge segment of dumb men that want women dumber than them so they aren't challenged. Again, massive insecurity issues. But I digress.

Anyway, older folks looking to cling to their worldview will will say "Oh, well, the problem is there aren't a lot of women who want to embrace traditional values and lifestyles, etc." Which is bullshit. What I read that as is "Society has changed, and I'm not capable of changing with it, so I'm going to bail and try to find women from 3rd world shitholes who won't challenge me and will just be grateful to be here" because they're lazy, selfish pussies. And of course now Passport Bro above now expects her to have a fucking job and go dutch on everything. It's sad.

I remember how fucking miserable I was in stretches of my 20s and early 30's because I was alone, or because the relationships I were in never felt like the right fit. It fucking sucked. But I had two choices: Either cave on my expectations, or stick it out. I stuck it out, and I finally met someone who checked all the boxes. And you know what, enough dumb motherfucking assholes out there had burned her enough that apparently she was willing to settle for my fucking stupid ass. And unless she's lying to me, we're pretty happy. And you know what, my life is better having a partner. Like a fucking lot. But it took time, work, and patience. And it still takes time, work, and patience. But what assholes like those shits want isn't a fucking partner, they want, as another poster posted, an indentured servant they can fuck. Don't tell me it's about values, or Christ, or whatever, because there's plenty religious nutjobs out there looking to be a housewife. But you know what, they probably are going to insist their partner, I don't know, also has a fucking good job, can provide for the family, isn't a shitbag, etc. To me it all comes down to a bunch of lazy fucking men, who won't look in a mirror, and blame everything on everyone else because they won't adjust. 

 

/rant.

 

If you made it this far, sadly, you get nothing. But thanks for reading. And also, don't take my rant to mean that women aren't all kinds of fucked up, and their standards aren't often complete shit, and their taste in men is often poor AF. After all, jokes about women chasing bad boys has also been a punchline for hundreds of years. But that's a completely different post. Plenty of shit to blame with women, social media culture, etc. But, news at 6, humans in general are stupid and fucked up, and there's more than enough blame to go around.

Edited June 8, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[TKthunder2 4,985]

31 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Did you just make this statistic up out of nowhere?

Lots of different statistics out there. Washington Post did some good stuff on this a while back which kicked off a bunch off follow up research/investigations.

I believe the 80/20 thing came directly from on of the dating apps (tinder/hinge?) and other studies have corroborated the trend they were seeing highlighting record high virginity in men in their 20a and low sex participation, while the inverse for women is true, record high participation and low virginity.

Feel free to go research, it’s a fascinating social topic.

[52-80 19,147]

thats a lot of armchair sociology ... based on a few dorks' travel account on instagram. 

most dudes enjoy an easy-going woman with nice cans.

[wildcat09 29,347]

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

[Pancho 44,719]

10 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Lots of different statistics out there. Washington Post did some good stuff on this a while back which kicked off a bunch off follow up research/investigations.

I believe the 80/20 thing came directly from on of the dating apps (tinder/hinge?) and other studies have corroborated the trend they were seeing highlighting record high virginity in men in their 20a and low sex participation, while the inverse for women is true, record high participation and low virginity.

Feel free to go research, it’s a fascinating social topic.

I just did the research in between my response to your post and you typing this, and the consensus is that this is a false statistic. 

 

[Macanudo 12,976]

14 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

These guys can’t afford corvettes. Fieros. 

Maybe.  But I bet even the Fiero owners post pictures of their paychecks too.

[Pancho 44,719]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

That and the amount who agree it’s an American woman thing is surprising (or maybe not). I think more men in America have been indoctrinated by the likes of Andrew Tate than we care to admit. 

Could it be a woman issue? yes. Could it also just as very well be an issue with men? Fuck yes. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

31 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

I've watched some of the referenced videos where the whole concept to to beat up very young women that have no life experience and unrealistic expectations of men. It's where the women think they're all 10s, expect the 6'4", $500K man that allows her a life of leisure. Of course it's easy to laugh at the attitudes of young women who have no idea about life.  These videos do well because it's entertaining and the youtube/tiktok/instagram algorithms will serve it up to millions.  It's unwise to equate algorithm popularity with widespread beliefs.

The flip side is the 35 year old lonely guy who wants a hot, virginal/low body count, 21 year old, who will accept his 60K salary and limited future upside. The aforementioned videos tell these guys that they should expect hot women. Those guys are delusional that they should be universally accepted by someone outside of their league. Now are they also being rejected by someone in their league? I'm sure but that doesn't mean its all women in their league.

Finally the real key is that the average or below guy is that should avoid the dating apps. 80% of women get swamped by too many guys and messages. And the average guy will be ignored. It's stupid and crazy to expect good results in an environment where you underperform.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

33 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

thats a lot of armchair sociology ... based on a few dorks' travel account on instagram. 

most dudes enjoy an easy-going woman with nice cans.

I married one. It was by far the best decision of my life. I work to support her and our children, put her needs first (and the kids) before my own (but her wants are reasonable and she’s capable of being satisfied- enough is enough for her) she’s a great mom, a good partner, and she spends almost no time on social media. Our relationship is happier than almost anyone we know because we are content and at peace with each other and don’t want/think we are entitled to more. 
women have never been more miserable by every mental health metic than right now. I blame social media. 
the joke you used to just have yo be more successful than your wife’s sisters husband but now you have to be more successful than e everyone she knows on social media is largely correct. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

Eddie just beat me to it.

Lotta talk here about women’s unrealistic expectations but lotta dudes want a hot woman, good job, no baggage, likes sports, etc and meanwhile they’re just some guy.

[Schulz2.0 28,951]

5 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Eddie just beat me to it.

Lotta talk here about women’s unrealistic expectations but lotta dudes want a hot woman, good job, no baggage, likes sports, etc and meanwhile they’re just some guy.

[Auto Driller 2,504]

I used to travel internationally a lot for work, mostly to SE Asia. I saw lots of older (50+) American guys who married younger (< 35) Malaysian/Indonesian women and started a family. Many had no intention of ever returning to the US.

 

Basically, if you’re clearly American and there for work you’re going to receive 50x the level of interest from women over there than you would back home unless you’re in the mythical top 1% of desirability (AKA rich). They’re very interested in your passport, your earning ability, and if you’re lucky, your interests/looks/personality. 
 

If we step back and just ask “what is marriage” it’s essentially a social contract. You give me ABC benefits (companionship, financial stability, parenting partner, etc.) and I’ll give you XYZ in return. For guys who marry into another culture, the math works out better outside the US. There are definitely others who prey on foreign women’s hope to escape poverty, which is pretty disgusting. But I don’t think that everyone has bad intentions.

I’m 36 and single. Dated multiple girls that could have progressed to marriage but never did, mostly because of 10000% craziness. But honestly, what makes me hesitant to marry an American are the divorce statistics. Some crazy high percentage of divorces are initiated by women and all of the divorce laws favor the women. Unless your wife is a currently incarcerated meth addiction, they’re taking the children. I think we’ve built a system where divorce is practically rewarded. I don’t necessarily blame guys for looking for something better overseas.

[wildcat09 29,347]

30 minutes ago, Pancho said:

That and the amount who agree it’s an American woman thing is surprising (or maybe not). I think more men in America have been indoctrinated by the likes of Andrew Tate than we care to admit. 

Could it be a woman issue? yes. Could it also just as very well be an issue with men? Fuck yes. 

This shit goes back way before Andrew Tate had hair on his balls, he just exploited and exacerbated shit.

Are there plenty of women with fucked up expectations? Sure. But as a percentage of all women, it's probably significantly lower than the percentage of guys with similarly fucked up expectations. 

[Brothahorn 10,087]

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

That's because there are a whole lotta married men in here.

@SydneyCarton I don't think it's the older guys who are driving this. It's the younger guys. The ones I personally know who did it are early 40s and under. None of them are losers. Just regular good ol American nerds. Who may be lazy and not wanting to stick it out, as you said. To them, an Asian/EuroLatin 5 is better than an American 3.

The funny thing is that one of their complaints is that they have to compete with the old dudes for women their age.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

45 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Maybe.  But I bet even the Fiero owners post pictures of their paychecks too.

8 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I used to travel internationally a lot for work, mostly to SE Asia. I saw lots of older (50+) American guys who married younger (< 35) Malaysian/Indonesian women and started a family. Many had no intention of ever returning to the US.

 

Basically, if you’re clearly American and there for work you’re going to receive 50x the level of interest from women over there than you would back home unless you’re in the mythical top 1% of desirability (AKA rich). They’re very interested in your passport, your earning ability, and if you’re lucky, your interests/looks/personality. 
 

If we step back and just ask “what is marriage” it’s essentially a social contract. You give me ABC benefits (companionship, financial stability, parenting partner, etc.) and I’ll give you XYZ in return. For guys who marry into another culture, the math works out better outside the US. There are definitely others who prey on foreign women’s hope to escape poverty, which is pretty disgusting. But I don’t think that everyone has bad intentions.

I’m 36 and single. Dated multiple girls that could have progressed to marriage but never did, mostly because of 10000% craziness. But honestly, what makes me hesitant to marry an American are the divorce statistics. Some crazy high percentage of divorces are initiated by women and all of the divorce laws favor the women. Unless your wife is a currently incarcerated meth addiction, they’re taking the children. I think we’ve built a system where divorce is practically rewarded. I don’t necessarily blame guys for looking for something better overseas.

Divorce #s in America are way down overall than they were during the 80s/90s when it was around 50%. Also, I think it's hilarious you talk about a system where it's rewarded for women to divorce you, and in the same post unironically reference foreign women interested in your passport and money. Unless you're planning on marrying a foreign woman and never coming back to the US, guess what, that same system still exists for those women to divorce you, take your assets, and take your kids. So this doesn't exactly feel like logical, sound thinking to me. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

4 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

That's because there are a whole lotta married men in here.

@SydneyCarton I don't think it's the older guys who are driving this. It's the younger guys. The ones I personally know who did it are early 40s and under. None of them are losers. Just regular good ol American nerds. Who may be lazy and not wanting to stick it out, as you said. To them, an Asian/EuroLatin 5 is better than an American 3.

The funny thing is that one of their complaints is that they have to compete with the old dudes for women their age.
 

And I've seen some married guys give some really bad advice to single guys. They tell the single guy to live the dream that the married guy wants.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

5 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

That's because there are a whole lotta married men in here.

@SydneyCarton I don't think it's the older guys who are driving this. It's the younger guys. The ones I personally know who did it are early 40s and under. None of them are losers. Just regular good ol American nerds. Who may be lazy and not wanting to stick it out, as you said. To them, an Asian/EuroLatin 5 is better than an American 3.

The funny thing is that one of their complaints is that they have to compete with the old dudes for women their age.
 

The "old people" part of my post was specifically in relation to being out of touch, specifically older posters who file this under some "it's hard to find a woman with traditional values" file. Because that's code for "Women who don't want to live the lifestyle I want them to live.

Absolutely younger men are also suffering from issues regarding this, but I would equate this to the despair they feel from not being able to find a good partner when they want one. Because women are on more equal footing and can tell more guys to fuck off if they don't meet their expectation. And men can't handle feeling powerless. And of course they're competing with old men with money, women are now in a position to do their own math. There's a specific thread on this board illustrating that to a T. 

It comes down to this: Neither men or women are ENTITLED to a spouse or partner. You have to work for it. And both sides can have fucked up, unreasonable expectations and a distorted view of their own worth. And that creates conflict. The difference is that for thousands of years, men were on an uneven playing field, and often their expectations got met simply because of societal restrictions. That is no longer the case, and now many men not only can't handle it, but they don't even know WHY this is happening. 

[Trey3216 15,345]

15 hours ago, Helobious said:

I’d pull just as many babes in any other country as I do here. Which is a fucking lot. No need to waste that much money traveling. These guys are losers.

You can have them all...considering your interpretation of "sweet threads" and the babes that are attracted to such...you can have them all. 

[closetohumping 17,435]

And by American, we mean the western world. 

[wildcat09 29,347]

*guy constantly thinks and talks about how American women are just whores looking to marry rich and out of their league to get that sweet sweet alimony*

"Hey babe! where are you going!? Why don't you want to marry me?!? What are you, crazy?! Whatever, you're only a 3 anyway!"

[Auto Driller 2,504]

15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Divorce #s in America are way down overall than they were during the 80s/90s when it was around 50%. Also, I think it's hilarious you talk about a system where it's rewarded for women to divorce you, and in the same post unironically reference foreign women interested in your passport and money. Unless you're planning on marrying a foreign woman and never coming back to the US, guess what, that same system still exists for those women to divorce you, take your assets, and take your kids. So this doesn't exactly feel like logical, sound thinking to me. 

Re-read the first paragraph, specifically the part about never returning to the US. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

46 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've watched some of the referenced videos where the whole concept to to beat up very young women that have no life experience and unrealistic expectations of men. It's where the women think they're all 10s, expect the 6'4", $500K man that allows her a life of leisure. Of course it's easy to laugh at the attitudes of young women who have no idea about life.  These videos do well because it's entertaining and the youtube/tiktok/instagram algorithms will serve it up to millions.  It's unwise to equate algorithm popularity with widespread beliefs.

The flip side is the 35 year old lonely guy who wants a hot, virginal/low body count, 21 year old, who will accept his 60K salary and limited future upside. The aforementioned videos tell these guys that they should expect hot women. Those guys are delusional that they should be universally accepted by someone outside of their league. Now are they also being rejected by someone in their league? I'm sure but that doesn't mean its all women in their league.

Finally the real key is that the average or below guy is that should avoid the dating apps. 80% of women get swamped by too many guys and messages. And the average guy will be ignored. It's stupid and crazy to expect good results in an environment where you underperform.

Your last two paragraphs are spot on too. Basically  contentment in life is based upon having proper expectations and realistic idea of your value (as a partner, a friend, an employee/employer etc) and acting accordingly. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,509]

Some advice for guys struggling. Stop watching videos telling you that it's not your fault. Instead watch videos from women telling you how to approach them and how to act on a first date. You might have to search for them since tiktok isn't serving it up to you.

You might not fully agree with their advice, like paying for the first date, but they're handing you a script for success.  And I don't mean listening to pickup artist coaches but regular women complaining about bad dates. Will you still get rejected by some women? Of course as it always has been.

And don't be boring. Never text, "what's up?" Have something worth sharing or don't say shit.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

2 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

Re-read the first paragraph, specifically the part about never returning to the US. 

Yeah, dude, I read it and comprehended it just fine. Which is why I specifically referenced in MY post later "unless YOU never intent to return to the US." Yes, that's what those guys did. And if your plan is to never return to the US, well ok. Otherwise, you're just as exposed. 

[Js1 85,296]

1 hour ago, TKthunder2 said:

They all think they deserve a fit 6ft tall guy with a college degree, 6 figure white collar job and a full head of hair, because that’s what happened with their few friends that got married either just after college or the former single 8-10s they knew all settled down with after a few years of clubbing/partying.

This is easy about men too. 

 

1 hour ago, TKthunder2 said:

There are a lot of middling women out there. I have two just in my family alone and they have friends all in the same boat. Most of the are attractive enough to get get dates but their standards are all fucked up. They all have college degrees and think they are 8-10s when really they are all 5-7s. (Go watch one of these YouTube video where they ask a group of women to rank themselves, and then have the men come in a correct them).

 

[Brothahorn 10,087]

And by American, we mean the western world. 

Are English, French and German women as crazy as Americans?

[Auto Driller 2,504]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah, dude, I read it and comprehended it just fine. Which is why I specifically referenced in MY post later "unless YOU never intent to return to the US." Yes, that's what those guys did. And if your plan is to never return to the US, well ok. Otherwise, you're just as exposed. 

I never said that I did, or intended to do, what these guys did. I merely stated another perspective of US men going overseas and finding a wife. It’s not all “passport bros”.

I do see how my comment around them being interested in your passport could be confusing though. One thing that we take for granted is our ability to travel to 90% of the world, often without the need for a visa. This just isn’t reality for most of the world. If a woman marries an American they can all of a sudden go places and see things that were previously completely out of reach. The benefits of a US passport aren’t limited to living here.

[closetohumping 17,435]

Just now, Brothahorn said:

8 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

And by American, we mean the western world. 

Are English, French and German women as crazy as Americans?

I wouldn't know.  But, my point is losers from that country like to dangle the green card in front of desperate ladies in third world countries as well.

[gmr548 16,576]

Watched a bit of it on YouTube. The ones I saw were decent to handsome guys (granted I only watched maybe 3-4 videos). It sounds like they weren't going so much because they couldn't get laid, but more to the point, had never been in a relationship with a women in which the woman's infidelity did not end the relationship. These dudes are looking for wives, someone to settle down with. I think fidelity is more important to them than maintaining the household. Another thing some of the guys brought up, was never leave your foreign girlfriend's country, or her family. If you bring them back to the US, the relationship will probably not work out. Makes me think of Eddie Murphy on his "Raw" comedy show all the way back in the 80's where his African girlfriend wanted her half. He told her she was naked riding a zebra when he found her.
If you look at the divorce thread in IWPIHB, or go back and read the "Population Decline" thread in this forum, you start to see some societal changes that were well intentioned, but have spawned some negative consequences. College educated women refusing to marry men without, at least, the same or higher level of education, and a higher income level, or divorcing their husband that paid for that education after they received it is commonplace. It happened to my best friend. Average women getting a booty call from a horny guy that is out of their league only to think that is the kind of guy that is her new norm and not the exception. American women are way out of touch with what their true looks are able to draw for a stable, longterm relationship. I bet there are several thousand women on social media, all over two bills, that say they are a "10". Completely out of touch with reality.
However, the biggest culprit, I truly believe, is social media. It was easy for us old dudes to "shoot your shot" back in the day, when a rejection was simply kept between the approacher, and the "approachee." Now, chicks blast it to all of their mutual friends in their social circle, how "Larry" was such a creep and had the audacity to hit me up. Next thing we see is the rejected doing something crazy (mass shootings, murder, suicide).People say some wicked, and mean-hearted shit behind the safety of their keyboard, just look at Surly.
I don't necessarily agree with the "passport bros", but I understand. I'm lucky, found a levelheaded woman and will be married for 30 years in August. I can't imagine dating and trying to find a "till death do us part" partner in today's environment.
CHIEF

There are a lot of middling women out there. I have two just in my family alone and they have friends all in the same boat. Most of the are attractive enough to get get dates but their standards are all fucked up. They all have college degrees and think they are 8-10s when really they are all 5-7s. (Go watch one of these YouTube video where they ask a group of women to rank themselves, and then have the men come in a correct them).
When they can easily out kick their coverage and hookup with a top 20% guy, they think they deserve to settle down with that same level and are too delusional with their own self worth to recognize that they are just one night stand material and not marriage material.
They all think they deserve a fit 6ft tall guy with a college degree, 6 figure white collar job and a full head of hair, because that’s what happened with their few friends that got married either just after college or the former single 8-10s they knew all settled down with after a few years of clubbing/partying.
The top 20% of men aren’t looking to settle down with a 35 year old woman. When they are ready they’ll find a 25 year old that has fewer sexual partners and still has ample time to produce children.
If these women could look past men that have a single “flaw” (going bald, overweight, short, blue collar) they could be happy, but with social media and online dating they compare themselves to their friends and partners to their hookups and would feel shame for settling when they know they could sleep with more attractive men with just a few swipes…until they can’t anymore.
This new culture has made a bunch of unhappy men in their 20-30s and is making a bunch of unhappy women in their 30-40s. I’m very happy I’m already married and don’t have to deal with this shit.

I mean I think this entire conversation is way overblown but there are some cringe/misogynistic elements to both of these posts. You can make the exact same posts about a bunch of unremarkable men who expect a mother, both for children and themselves, who also brings in a full time income and keeps up her appearance.

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

Basically this.

I just did the research in between my response to your post and you typing this, and the consensus is that this is a false statistic. 
 

I always see it thrown around in discussions like this and I’ve never once seen a source.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

6 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I never said that I did, or intended to do, what these guys did. I merely stated another perspective of US men going overseas and finding a wife. It’s not all “passport bros”.

I do see how my comment around them being interested in your passport could be confusing though. One thing that we take for granted is our ability to travel to 90% of the world, often without the need for a visa. This just isn’t reality for most of the world. If a woman marries an American they can all of a sudden go places and see things that were previously completely out of reach. The benefits of a US passport aren’t limited to living here.

I'm aware you never said you did or intended to do what those guys did. Which is why I fucking pointed out that the exposure in the system is the same for foreigners versus American women if you ever intend to return to America. 

Yes, the benefits of the US passport aren't limited to living here...but are you seriously telling me you think a vast majority of the women who are from countries that are half as restricted in regards to visas and whatnot as you say...DON'T want to live in America? Come on, man. 

[Bateshorn 9,927]

I don't know about all this "Women being un-realistic, thus horny incells are leaving the country" stuff, but on the upper eastern seaboard, every staright dude I know, even the tools, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.   The ratio of single professional women to men is outrageous.  Basically, have a full set of teeth, be able to put together a few sentences, and a have a job, and never sleep alone.  Essentially the multi decadal demographic shift in college to being much more female than male has finally shown up in the dating scene on the east coast. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Bateshorn

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

4 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

I mean I think this entire conversation is way overblown but there are some cringe/misogynistic elements to both of these posts. You can make the exact same posts about a bunch of unremarkable men who expect a mother, both for children and themselves, who also brings in a full time income and keeps up her appearance.

Basically this.

I always see it thrown around in discussions like this and I’ve never once seen a source.

 

Oh, I guess it's HamsterHookah/ViperVape/TurkeyChew throwing that statistic around then. Which absolutely tracks. 

[Auto Driller 2,504]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

I'm aware you never said you did or intended to do what those guys did. Which is why I fucking pointed out that the exposure in the system is the same for foreigners versus American women if you ever intend to return to America. 

Yes, the benefits of the US passport aren't limited to living here...but are you seriously telling me you think a vast majority of the women who are from countries that are half as restricted in regards to visas and whatnot as you say...DON'T want to live in America? Come on, man. 

Relax man. It’s a message board. If I knew I was going to be required to state the intention of every US man and foreign woman who get married I wouldn’t have quoted your reply.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

1 minute ago, Auto Driller said:

Relax man. It’s a message board. If I knew I was going to be required to state the intention of every US man and foreign woman who get married I wouldn’t have quoted your reply.

I'm relaxed, dude. I just curse a lot. I was simply commenting that your faults/opinions on the marriage/divorce dynamic in the US don't limit your exposure for foreign brides unless you're never coming back here. That's it. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[Beau Vine 54,209]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

We're only on page 2 and there's already a whole lotta incel vibes in this here thread.

Well..

[Brisketexan 105,082]

18 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

It comes down to this: Neither men or women are ENTITLED to a spouse or partner. You have to work for it. And both sides can have fucked up, unreasonable expectations and a distorted view of their own worth. And that creates conflict. The difference is that for thousands of years, men were on an uneven playing field, and often their expectations got met simply because of societal restrictions. That is no longer the case, and now many men not only can't handle it, but they don't even know WHY this is happening. 

The bolded.  It seems ridiculous to say this, but 1) if you want to attract a mate, then 2) you should be attractive.  The words are literally the same.  

And "attractiveness" is not just physical appearance.  Things that make a man attractive: physical qualities, grooming, money, intelligence, ambition, sense of humor, decent/kind personality...and probably quite a few others.  

Shit, I'm a decent-enough looking guy, but I was never gonna be a model, not a good athlete.  So...I had to be attractive in other ways.  Lucky for me that my now-wife always had in mind for a mate "he has to be at least as smart as I am, he has to have ambition, and he has to be able to make me laugh."  Hey, look at me - the decent looking guy who puts in at least SOME effort on his physical appearance, dressing, and grooming, who checks all of those boxes for her.  Yes, there has to be some level of physical attraction - someone with every other quality, but they look like Jabba with open sores....gonna have a hard time getting a mate. 

And yes, you "have to work for it" physically as well - that means not giving up and quitting on your appearance.  I remember many years ago, when I was dropping the kids off at elementary school, coming back and talking about one of the moms who had clearly just "quit."  She was probably never any great beauty, but she showed up every morning in a bulky warmup suit, greasy unwashed hair, ugly glasses....she was actually revolting.  And if she'd just lost a few pounds (not all of them, just some of them), washed her hair, and worn ANYTHING more flattering, she'd be fine looking.  This same calculus goes for these fucking incel losers who don't wash their face and subsist off of cheetos and coke in their mom's basement.  For fuck's sake, learn how to dress, wash and brush your hair, and maybe eat some real food every now and then.  You don't have to look like Channing Tatum, just avoid looking like Jabba.

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

*guy constantly thinks and talks about how American women are just whores looking to marry rich and out of their league to get that sweet sweet alimony*

"Hey babe! where are you going!? Why don't you want to marry me?!? What are you, crazy?! Whatever, you're only a 3 anyway!"

I literally had that conversation with a young female colleague a couple of months ago.  She's "normal attractive" - not a beauty queen, but plenty attractive enough to get attention from guys, and she described how shitty it was at the gym; she wears her headphones the entire time, largely to keep guys from bugging her.  Because they will, and when she politely declines their advances, she regularly gets the "whatever, bitch, you're not that pretty anyway" response.  Made my fucking jaw drop.  Made me want to apologize for my entire gender.

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Some advice for guys struggling. Stop watching videos telling you that it's not your fault. Instead watch videos from women telling you how to approach them and how to act on a first date. You might have to search for them since tiktok isn't serving it up to you.

You might not fully agree with their advice, like paying for the first date, but they're handing you a script for success.  And I don't mean listening to pickup artist coaches but regular women complaining about bad dates. Will you still get rejected by some women? Of course as it always has been.

And don't be boring. Never text, "what's up?" Have something worth sharing or don't say shit.

Yes, back to my first point -- if you want to attract a woman, be attractive to women.  Figure out what they want (it's not fucking hard, you lazy pieces of shit), and work on being that.  And be realistic about it - don't focus on things that women want that you can never be.  Yeah, supermodels want to be with the QB or the lead singer of the band.  Well, I can't throw a football very well, and my singing voice isn't lead-singer material.  So, I'd be an idiot if I spent all my time trying to become something I can never be, and then being frustrated when I can't do it.  Instead, I learned how to have good conversation, be a decent guy, and be funny.  And yeah, I had the brains and ambition already.  So I played up what I had, and it worked out great for me.

Fucking lazy entitled fucksticks - that certainly applies to a shitload of American men, and it apparently applies to a decent chunk of American women as well.

[gmr548 16,576]

Yeah, there were some things in CHIEF's post that made me raise my eyebrows in a not-so-great way. The women being "way out of touch with reality" concept is funny to me, because historically to the point that it's been a punchline of hundreds of jokes, just on this website, every week, it's old people. Old people are out of touch with reality. And not only that, most of them are aggressively wired to attempt to make their own reality all they see. And that's not a dig, that's literally just a fact of life. The older you get, the more entrenched you become in your ideas as well as your life...your routine, who you see, what you do, how you feel, etc. You're not out learning new things, changing with the times, etc. That's literally the normal life cycle. 

The problem these days, is things are changing so fast that not only old people can't handle it, but older middle age people can't handle it. It took human beings thousands of years to go from hunting, to farming, to the Renaissance. Now in the past 100 years women can vote, black people have equal rights, religion is in decline, some kids pick their own gender, the Internet exists, etc. It's overwhelming. And unfortunately this helps unlock the rage and hatred in human being hearts, and shit spirals from there.

I have my own pet theory as to one of the reasons why education is suffering in this country...outside of all the obvious reasons. One is because there's no longer a massive, massive fucking talent pool of intelligent women, wildly intelligent women, who were basically given the choice of being a teacher, stewardess, secretary, or nurse as their careers. Now they have equality and are getting high paying jobs, C-suit level gigs, attorneys, lawyers, and lots of men fucking hate that. Because it makes their own success more difficult, and removes a hierarchy that they relied upon for their own self esteem. And you have assholes like Passport Bro who just call American women entitled, for having the audacity to seek a partner who is educated, who they're attracted to, who isn't a chauvinist pig who's masculinity isn't imperiled because they have to cook some meals and do household chores and shit that forever was labeled as "women's work." Basically, they're pissed that women want the same shit they've been demanding of women for the history of fucking time. Well, maybe not the intelligent part. There's a huge segment of dumb men that want women dumber than them so they aren't challenged. Again, massive insecurity issues. But I digress.

Anyway, older folks looking to cling to their worldview will will say "Oh, well, the problem is there aren't a lot of women who want to embrace traditional values and lifestyles, etc." Which is bullshit. What I read that as is "Society has changed, and I'm not capable of changing with it, so I'm going to bail and try to find women from 3rd world shitholes who won't challenge me and will just be grateful to be here" because they're lazy, selfish pussies. And of course now Passport Bro above now expects her to have a fucking job and go dutch on everything. It's sad.

I remember how fucking miserable I was in stretches of my 20s and early 30's because I was alone, or because the relationships I were in never felt like the right fit. It fucking sucked. But I had two choices: Either cave on my expectations, or stick it out. I stuck it out, and I finally met someone who checked all the boxes. And you know what, enough dumb motherfucking assholes out there had burned her enough that apparently she was willing to settle for my fucking stupid ass. And unless she's lying to me, we're pretty happy. And you know what, my life is better having a partner. Like a fucking lot. But it took time, work, and patience. And it still takes time, work, and patience. But what assholes like those shits want isn't a fucking partner, they want, as another poster posted, an indentured servant they can fuck. Don't tell me it's about values, or Christ, or whatever, because there's plenty religious nutjobs out there looking to be a housewife. But you know what, they probably are going to insist their partner, I don't know, also has a fucking good job, can provide for the family, isn't a shitbag, etc. To me it all comes down to a bunch of lazy fucking men, who won't look in a mirror, and blame everything on everyone else because they won't adjust. 
 
/rant.
 
If you made it this far, sadly, you get nothing. But thanks for reading. And also, don't take my rant to mean that women aren't all kinds of fucked up, and their standards aren't often complete shit, and their taste in men is often poor AF. After all, jokes about women chasing bad boys has also been a punchline for hundreds of years. But that's a completely different post. Plenty of shit to blame with women, social media culture, etc. But, news at 6, humans in general are stupid and fucked up, and there's more than enough blame to go around.

Excellent post, by the way.

[SydneyCarton 48,066]

Thanks for reading all the way through

I'll tell you one thing I can't square with guys and old timers...those of you with daughters, wouldn't you want them to have all of the options and maximize their wants/needs in their spouse. The guys who demand all this shit from women, and then have a baby girl, would they want a fucking governor in the form of a mediocre husband on their lives? In the name of "traditional values?" I can't fucking understand that shit at all. 

[Bateshorn 9,927]

Brisket hit the nail on the head:  If you are interesting, employed, understand your dating pool, and make an effort not to be disgusting on the appearance/physical lifestyle front, it shouldn't be that damn hard.  There are plenty of women out there who are also looking for companionship. But if you are going to box them all into the madonna/jezebel framework, don't be suprised when people don't want to sit across from the table from you and enjoy a nice seafood dinner. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Some advice for guys struggling. Stop watching videos telling you that it's not your fault. Instead watch videos from women telling you how to approach them and how to act on a first date. You might have to search for them since tiktok isn't serving it up to you.
You might not fully agree with their advice, like paying for the first date, but they're handing you a script for success.  And I don't mean listening to pickup artist coaches but regular women complaining about bad dates. Will you still get rejected by some women? Of course as it always has been.
And don't be boring. Never text, "what's up?" Have something worth sharing or don't say shit.

Who the hell doesn't pay for the first date? Especially if you asked. Now that is lower shit.

[Auto Driller 2,504]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm relaxed, dude. I just curse a lot. I was simply commenting that your faults/opinions on the marriage/divorce dynamic in the US don't limit your exposure for foreign brides unless you're never coming back here. That's it. 

morerelaxedthanyou.jpeg

 

But seriously, you do bring up a good point. A lot of guys who think they can just recruit a servant/sex slave/mother figure and bring a mail order bride (or equivalent) back to the US end up divorced and alone as soon as their bride gains full citizenship. Which is, in a way, poetic justice.