NBA 2023-24 Off Season

[Fastbreak 3973]

The finals are a wrap, it’s time for the off season drama. VanVleet was the first chip to fall. Here are the other player options (I’m expecting Middleton, Porzingis and Trent to opt-in).

 

Fred VanVleet

$22.8 million from Raptors

Declined

 

James Harden

$35.6 million from 76ers

TBD

 

Draymond Green

$27.6 million from Warriors

TBD

 

Khris Middleton

$40.4 million from Bucks

TBD

 

Kristaps Porzingis

$36 million from Wizards

TBD

 

Kyle Kuzma

$13 million from Wizards

TBD

 

Gary Trent Jr.

$18.6 million from Raptors

TBD

 

Josh Hart

$13 million from Knicks

TBD

 

Bruce Brown

$6.8 million from Nuggets

TBD

 

Jordan Clarkson

14.3 million from Jazz

TBD

 

Donte DiVincenzo

$4.7 million from Warriors

TBD

 

Talen Horton-Tucker

$11 million from Jazz

TBD

[PittsburghTiger 6174]

That Porzingis kid has kind of dropped off the face of the earth. I see he played more games this season than he has since the 2016-17 season.

Injuries can really wreck a career.

[LTtxfan 49141]

Ja Morant news probably this week... some predictions are that he misses entire season so he can't somehow finish season as a hero for the Griz.  

[Brothahorn 10087]

Is this to help offset the loss of Brown?

Can't remember a trade during the playoffs/finals before.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 

Is this to help offset the loss of Brown?

Can't remember a trade during the playoffs/finals before.

 

Denver has a lot of cap tied up going forward with Jokic, Murray, Porter and Gordon. They are going to be pushing the second apron unless they deal some of their core. They were able to surround them with KCP and Bruce Brown this year, but going forward they are going to need to find good young guys on cheap deals, like they did with Braun. I think they have enough faith in their front office to deliver high value role players with those late first / early second round picks.

Meanwhile, OKC has potentially four first round picks next year. They can't use them all, so they are pushing it down the road to get another first in 2029. You are probably going to see more teams (Utah and San Antonio for example) do the same type of things because they have more future picks than roster space or development bandwidth. Indiana, for example, has picks 7, 26, 29, 32, and 55 this year. They have got to trade up or out of them. They can't take 4 or 5 rookies. Charlotte has 2, 27, 34, 39, and 41 this year. Utah has 9, 16, and 28. I think we are going to see a lot of action on draft night and leading up to it, especially at the back end of the first round / beginning of round 2.

[ztejas 43411]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Ja Morant news probably this week... some predictions are that he misses entire season so he can't somehow finish season as a hero for the Griz.  

Lol wut? The entire season? For what? 

Unless he did some seriously heinous shit we don't know about that's absurd. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

I think he gets 20 games, and I think that is harsh.  A suspension for even half the season would seem outrageous to me. 

[BigOrange1 6432]

 

[Brothahorn 10087]

3 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

 

Every year we hear the same crap about this guy. They need to shit or get off the pot. 

[LTtxfan 49141]

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I think he gets 20 games, and I think that is harsh.  A suspension for even half the season would seem outrageous to me. 

Not harsh at all.  Remember Adam Silver had previously suspended Morant earlier this year for the gun incident in Denver night club.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/15/ja-morant-suspended-memphis-grizzlies-nightclub-gun-incident-nba

 

The minimum amount of this second suspension is rumored to be at least 50 games.  Frankly, I would not find fault if Silver gives Morant a suspension lasting the entire season...  

 

[ztejas 43411]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Not harsh at all.  Remember Adam Silver had previously suspended Morant earlier this year for the gun incident in Denver night club.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/15/ja-morant-suspended-memphis-grizzlies-nightclub-gun-incident-nba

 

The minimum amount of this second suspension is rumored to be at least 50 games.  Frankly, I would not find fault if Silver gives Morant a suspension lasting the entire season...  

 

Gil got half a season from Stern for having guns in the locker room. Artest didn't even get a full season (technically) for Malice at the Palace. 

Ja ain't getting no damn 82 game suspension and I'd be fucking shocked if it was 40+. He's one of the 5-10 biggest stars in the league. 

[Vic Mackey 47006]

.

[Kermit 3156]

22 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

.

[Fastbreak 3973]

To be fair, he didn’t specify which game. I heard he is kinda dope at call of duty.

[Fastbreak 3973]

Does something like this get it done? Or does Hero have to be in it? Beal has maybe the 2nd worst contract in the league, so getting anything for him would be a win IMO.

[Vic Mackey 47006]

Lulz

[Blotto 23484]

I'll guess around 30 games on the Ja suspension. Wouldnt bother me if its more, or even the season. That bullshit he and his crew pulled in Indy with the laser light also factors into the situation when he's shown he quite fond of guns and acting hard. NBA doesnt need that bullshit. They will be just fine without Ja for a year. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

Greg Hardy got 4 games from the NFL for throwing a woman onto a pile of guns.  25% of the season.  20 games feels right, but I bet it’s more.  Silver is personally offended here.  He laid down the law, and it feels like Ja is taunting him at this point.  A whole season wouldn’t shock me.

[d2o 1602]

18 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I think he gets 20 games, and I think that is harsh.  A suspension for even half the season would seem outrageous to me. 

Yep, for as stupid as the shit was there is no reason for him to get more than 20.   And even that is just because he's fucking stupid not really because the actual action.     And now the league has the benefit of the outrage dying down some.   Give him 20 gms and this isnt really a story again until the season starts

[d2o 1602]

13 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

.

[aggie08 21481]

14 hours ago, ztejas said:

Gil got half a season from Stern for having guns in the locker room.

And if Gil had so much as mentioned carrying guns, as a second offense, he would have been suspended for a full season and then some. 

But Adam Silver isn't David Stern. I'm sure Adam took it a little personally essentially getting lied to, but he doesn't hold vendettas like Mr. Stern. Dave would have dropped the hammer the day that 2nd video came out. The longer this goes without Ja's suspension announcement, the less severe I imagine it will be.

[Pam Cummings 9639]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yep, for as stupid as the shit was there is no reason for him to get more than 20.   And even that is just because he's fucking stupid not really because the actual action.     And now the league has the benefit of the outrage dying down some.   Give him 20 gms and this isnt really a story again until the season starts

I disagree. The laser pointer incident in and of itself is worthy of a really long suspension. You don't play like that.

[Herpa Derpa 6122]

You don't feel the need to postpone the news for a 20 game suspension. My guess is a half season or more.

[Kermit 3156]

53 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

You don't feel the need to postpone the news for a 20 game suspension. My guess is a half season or more.

Yeah, this is my feeling. They’re going to make an example of this idiot. 

[closetohumping 17431]

Zion on the block

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Zion on the block

I was wondering that with the talk of NO wanting to move up.  I wondered if they'd rather give up BI or Zion and when you think about it, Zion is the obvious choice.  Might not be that many takers for the big man, though, all things considered.

[HookEm 2463]

OKC should package some picks up to get Zion.  He still has the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA.  I would try something like Saric + Tre Mann (2021 18th pick) + Jalen Williams (2022 12th pick) + 2024 Clippers 1st + 2025 76ers 1st (top-6 protected) + 2026 Clippers unprotected

SGA, Dort, Giddy, Zion, Holmgren would be an awesome young core. And a Zion / Holmgren combo would be crazy to watch.

 

[HornOnTheBayou 8904]

18 minutes ago, HookEm said:

And a Zion / Holmgren combo would be crazy to watch.

Agreed. Those would be 5 must-watch games every season.

Edited June 15, 2023 by HornOnTheBayou

[aggie08 21481]

The who would you rather have, Zion or Ja debate from a few years ago sure has gotten weird. 

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

30 minutes ago, HookEm said:

OKC should package some picks up to get Zion.  He still has the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA.  I would try something like Saric + Tre Mann (2021 18th pick) + Jalen Williams (2022 12th pick) + 2024 Clippers 1st + 2025 76ers 1st (top-6 protected) + 2026 Clippers unprotected

SGA, Dort, Giddy, Zion, Holmgren would be an awesome young core. And a Zion / Holmgren combo would be crazy to watch.

 

That would be the worst trade ever.  Jalen Williams might be a borderline All Star sooner rather than later and those Clipper picks might be high lottery depending on if The Nephew wants to play.  That '26 pick is looking particularly tasty.

Can anyone be 100% certain that Zion will play more than 50 games in each of the next three seasons?

[HookEm 2463]

44 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

That would be the worst trade ever.  Jalen Williams might be a borderline All Star sooner rather than later and those Clipper picks might be high lottery depending on if The Nephew wants to play.  That '26 pick is looking particularly tasty.

Can anyone be 100% certain that Zion will play more than 50 games in each of the next three seasons?

There is obviously a ton of uncertainty with Zion. But even in your reply you note that Jalen Williams MIGHT be an all-star. And the Clippers pick MIGHT be tasty.  There is uncertainty with most picks and players in this range. 
 

I’m just going with the player who I know without a doubt has the highest ceiling.  When Zion plays he has been very good, and he is still just 22 years old.  At the same age, Joel Embiid had played a total of 30 games. Now he is the MVP.

[Chewbacca 7765]

17 hours ago, Blotto said:

I'll guess around 30 games on the Ja suspension. Wouldnt bother me if its more, or even the season. That bullshit he and his crew pulled in Indy with the laser light also factors into the situation when he's shown he quite fond of guns and acting hard. NBA doesnt need that bullshit. They will be just fine without Ja for a year. 

And the beating up of (and pointing the gun at) the high school kid.  Ja needs to get his priorities straight or he'll be out of the league soon.

[Chewbacca 7765]

9 hours ago, d2o said:

 Give him 20 gms and this isnt really a story again until he does it again

Fixed that for you, and that's why I think he gets at least half a season.

[Blotto 23484]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Fixed that for you, and that's why I think he gets at least half a season.

Exactly. Silver's first suspension of 8 games was so "sobering" to Ja that he made it all of two months before he did the same fucking thing. He may look like an insect, but something tells me Silver does have human emotions and wont take Ja's disrespect lightly. 

[ztejas 43411]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

OKC should package some picks up to get Zion.  He still has the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA.  I would try something like Saric + Tre Mann (2021 18th pick) + Jalen Williams (2022 12th pick) + 2024 Clippers 1st + 2025 76ers 1st (top-6 protected) + 2026 Clippers unprotected

SGA, Dort, Giddy, Zion, Holmgren would be an awesome young core. And a Zion / Holmgren combo would be crazy to watch.

 

I wouldn't trade Jalen Williams for Zion straight up.

[Brothahorn 10087]

45 minutes ago, HookEm said:

There is obviously a ton of uncertainty with Zion. But even in your reply you note that Jalen Williams MIGHT be an all-star. And the Clippers pick MIGHT be tasty.  There is uncertainty with most picks and players in this range. 
 

I’m just going with the player who I know without a doubt has the highest ceiling.  When Zion plays he has been very good, and he is still just 22 years old.  At the same age, Joel Embiid had played a total of 30 games. Now he is the MVP.

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

59 minutes ago, HookEm said:

There is obviously a ton of uncertainty with Zion. But even in your reply you note that Jalen Williams MIGHT be an all-star. And the Clippers pick MIGHT be tasty.  There is uncertainty with most picks and players in this range. 
 

I’m just going with the player who I know without a doubt has the highest ceiling.  When Zion plays he has been very good, and he is still just 22 years old.  At the same age, Joel Embiid had played a total of 30 games. Now he is the MVP.

What has greater odds, Jalen Williams being an All Star or Zion playing 70 games in a season?

[HookEm 2463]

I would probably take the Jalen Williams side of that bet.

Who has the better odds of being NBA MVP?  Or Finals MVP?  I would take Zion.  

Who has the potential to sell more tickets?  Zion.

Regardless though, if OKC loves Jalen Williams then don't include him in that trade. They have a lot of other assets.  Throw in another couple of first rounders.  Or add in Ousmane Dieng or Jaylin Williams or Aleksej Pokusevski. 

OKC has the young players and assets to put together a championship team. Zion still has a TON of runway in front of him. I would take a chance.

[ztejas 43411]

Just now, HookEm said:

Who has the better odds of being NBA MVP?  Or Finals MVP?  I would take Zion.  

Who has the better odds of being MVP or FMVP between Zion and SGA?

[HookEm 2463]

SGA obviously. But you need multiple All-NBA caliber players to win a title these days. Maybe Giddy will get to that level - or Holmgren.  But I think Zion has more upside than either of those guys and I'm not sure they would have to give up any of them to get him.

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

Zion has a 0% chance of ever being Finals MVP because to do that, he'd have to lead his team (presumably NO) through the regular season and play at least 60 games and then up to an additional 28 in the playoffs.  That's 88 games.  That ain't happening.

What's troubling about him isn't just that he's injury prone but it's that routine injuries sideline him for months.  He was out since January with what, a strained hamstring?  Happened in January and he was out for the season and he's only 22.

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

28 minutes ago, HookEm said:

SGA obviously. But you need multiple All-NBA caliber players to win a title these days. Maybe Giddy will get to that level - or Holmgren.  But I think Zion has more upside than either of those guys and I'm not sure they would have to give up any of them to get him.

Or one great player surrounded by a lot of really good ones.  They have a good young core of Jalen, Chet, and Giddey.  I'm not sure any of them become 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA but all of them could be very good.  They have a really good culture there with the current group and that can go a long way.  SGA is the best player on the team and also the hardest worker.  Just cares about basketball.

[HtownHorn 14663]

2 hours ago, HookEm said:

There is obviously a ton of uncertainty with Zion. But even in your reply you note that Jalen Williams MIGHT be an all-star. And the Clippers pick MIGHT be tasty.  There is uncertainty with most picks and players in this range. 
 

I’m just going with the player who I know without a doubt has the highest ceiling.  When Zion plays he has been very good, and he is still just 22 years old.  At the same age, Joel Embiid had played a total of 30 games. Now he is the MVP.

Joel Embiid also was never 80 pounds overweight and showed some love for the game.

[ztejas 43411]

51 minutes ago, HookEm said:

SGA obviously. But you need multiple All-NBA caliber players to win a title these days. Maybe Giddy will get to that level - or Holmgren.  But I think Zion has more upside than either of those guys and I'm not sure they would have to give up any of them to get him.

Giddey or Jalen could easily get to that level. There's no point in trading them. 

I get the upside angle with Zion. And his stock is at an all-time low. I just don't think NO would get someone like Williams back plus picks for him right now. His contract is obscene and we don't even know if he likes playing basketball. He could be a fat Ben Simmons. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

Yeah, I would happily give up Williams and assets for Zion if I was okc. As someone who has spent a lot of time in New Orleans, I can say with good authority that you become 95% healthier and immediately drop weight as soon as you leave that place. What’s there to do in okc besides meth? That would certainly take the pounds off. 

I’m not sure why but I think Zion will figure it out. He’s getting dragged now like never before. This is the first adversity he’s ever faced in his life. This will be good for him long term. He’s only 22 and obviously an entitled moron. I think he’s got a good chance of getting his shit together. There have been much bigger knuckleheads than him who eventually grew up. And if he does, holy shit he’s a beast.

[ztejas 43411]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I’m not sure why but I think Zion will figure it out. He’s getting dragged now like never before. This is the first adversity he’s ever faced in his life. This will be good for him long term. He’s only 22 and obviously an entitled moron. I think he’s got a good chance of getting his shit together. There have been much bigger knuckleheads than him who eventually grew up. And if he does, holy shit he’s a beast.

I'd agree if he wasn't so injury riddled. It may or may not work out for him even if he gets his head on straight. 

[LTtxfan 49141]

Should The Pelicans Try To Trade Zion Williamson This Offseason? | 06/15/23

[Fastbreak 3973]

The Zion trade I posted earlier this week in the season thread is the best they are going to get.

CHA gets Zion + #14 for Hayward + #2

No way OKC would give up Jalen. Maybe Mann, Poku, Dort + a pick

[Brothahorn 10087]

Jordan finally accepting the truth.

[TheStoicPaisano 9921]

Bye, Cheese Eyes!

Edited June 16, 2023 by TheStoicPaisano