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NBA 2023-24 Off Season

Fastbreak

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HornOnTheBayou
HornOnTheBayou

Agreed. Those would be 5 must-watch games every season.

ztejas
ztejas

I mean they really are pushing the limits of how terrible NBA coverage can be. Before you know it it's going to be 7 women all arguing with Stephen A Smith at the same time. 

Dutchrudder
Dutchrudder

He looks like a character from Men on Film  

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ztejas

ztejas 43549

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, d2o said:

You see this as a bad move?    Even if it was for no other reason than to trade him again its a huge win.   Beyond that Collins is a really good player that is locked up for a few yrs.  UTA is not going to be a FA destination.   Getting a player like Collins for nothing is great move.

Collins was a shell of himself last season and there's serious concern that his finger/hand injury isn't fixable and as a result neither is his shot. 

He is not a "really good" player he's totally average and worth maybe $10M a season. Anyone electing to pay him $26M/ isn't serious about winning. I'd rather pay Rudy Gay whatever he was making. 

Which brings me back to my question - what is Utah trying to do? Exist in play-in purgatory? They're too good to tank. They aren't good enough to contend. 

Obviously they could trade Collins again but good luck. 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18597

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14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Collins was a shell of himself last season and there's serious concern that his finger/hand injury isn't fixable and as a result neither is his shot. 

He is not a "really good" player he's totally average and worth maybe $10M a season. Anyone electing to pay him $26M/ isn't serious about winning. I'd rather pay Rudy Gay whatever he was making. 

Which brings me back to my question - what is Utah trying to do? Exist in play-in purgatory? They're too good to tank. They aren't good enough to contend. 

Obviously they could trade Collins again but good luck. 

They owe their FRP to OKC, top ten protected, and they want it convey next year. Whether Collins is the difference between making the playoffs and not, is a better question. I think he sucks and has a terrible contract that Atlanta should be thrilled to be getting out from under without sending more assets.

The western conference is going to be brutal next year. There won't be one single team in tank mode other than Portland and that's only if they dump Lillard. Everybody else either has all their chips pushed into the table and/or doesn't own their pick. Other than the Spurs, that is, but I can't imagine them outright tanking unless they get hit with the injury bug.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6190

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Speaking of Rodman, this is his view on Larry Birdb935c443f8d6bc4434534a19b90c4c73.jpg

And Rodman would probably not have a job in this era stateside, Europe or Australia. When players or fans say these things I am not sure that they even bother to stop and think that Bird’s career would have lasted longer with access to better training methods and the science of the human body is just more advanced. He would have, and this is the only one of THOSE GUYS I respect enough to say this about, killed it with the space he would have had to operate and get quality shots.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14625

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4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

The era argument is always stupid. If Jokic had played in the 1980s, people today would say he's too slow and couldn't play in today's pace and space era. 

The stars would be stars in any era.  It's the role players that would change.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

The era argument is always stupid. If Jokic had played in the 1980s, people today would say he's too slow and couldn't play in today's pace and space era. 

Absolutely, but Bird specifically is a guy who would be more dominant in today's game if anything.

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HookEm

HookEm 2468

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Bird would be absolutely insane in today’s NBA. I can’t even imagine how many 3s he would be hitting.  He was also a great rebounder and passer - and a near psychopath as a competitor.  I still think at his peak he was a top 3-4 player in NBA history and better than LeBron at his peak.  With modern training and medicine he should have been good for another 10 years.

Rodman is a moeran.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18597

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Free agency starts Friday. It's a crappy market, overall.

The Rockets are reportedly linked to nearly every free agent. Or more likely, every player agent is using them to bump their client's value. But they also have a ton of money to spend. I'm sure they will disburse it wisely.

The new CBA penalizes you for not hitting the salary floor. First, the money below the floor gets distributed back to the NBAPA and not to guys on your own team. Secondly you don't get a distribution of the luxury tax payments. This year it's only a 50% penalty, but next year you get zilch. So essentially every cheap bastard team will find their way to the floor before the season starts either by trade or free agent signing.

The Lakers are publicly claiming they will match any offer for Austin Reaves. If you are so insistent, just go ahead and max him for $102 million over four years yourself. I double dog dare you.

There's a lot of Draymond chatter, but I can't imagine him leaving the Warriors especially with Poole gone and his contract off the books.

Teams with money to spend:

That's a lot of teams with money to burn in a bad free agent class and several teams below the floor that won't stay there. It's also a lot of teams that are in win-now mode who don't own their draft picks. We're going to see some awful, head scratching contracts over the weekend.

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ztejas

ztejas 43549

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, SilasCoade said:

If Portland does end up shipping Dame somewhere (which I can't see happening) they could do worse than signing Reaves for something like 4 years @ $16M per. (Though according to this article it would have to be structured more like $11M/12M/19M/22M.)

?

Reaves isn't going anywhere. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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I mean, maybe, but the Lakers can't do more than match an offer, right? So anyone going over 4yrs/$53M has at least an opportunity to get him. Your previous post and Mitch's post are about his free agency and the idea that the Lakers can just max him out, but they really can't unless it's to match. And frankly they shouldn't match anything crazy. Reaves is a nice player but he's not a guy you build a team around. Some teams are more desperate than the Lakers and Portland's one of them. For them overpaying Reaves as an end to the Lillard era makes a little bit of sense. They have a chance to see if he continues to develop into a reliable second banana while they tank for a couple years. Of course if they hang onto Dame they can't really sign him or any other meaningful free agent, so this is pure speculation around the recent chatter that Dame could get moved.

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ztejas

ztejas 43549

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1 hour ago, SilasCoade said:

I mean, maybe, but the Lakers can't do more than match an offer, right? So anyone going over 4yrs/$53M has at least an opportunity to get him. Your previous post and Mitch's post are about his free agency and the idea that the Lakers can just max him out, but they really can't unless it's to match. And frankly they shouldn't match anything crazy. Reaves is a nice player but he's not a guy you build a team around. Some teams are more desperate than the Lakers and Portland's one of them. For them overpaying Reaves as an end to the Lillard era makes a little bit of sense. They have a chance to see if he continues to develop into a reliable second banana while they tank for a couple years. Of course if they hang onto Dame they can't really sign him or any other meaningful free agent, so this is pure speculation around the recent chatter that Dame could get moved.

I'm not evaluating him as a player or commenting on what the Lakers should or shouldn't do. Someone is going to extend him an offer sheet for 20 per+ and the Lakers are going to match it. Or someone will offer him less than that and the Lakers will still match it. It doesn't matter. 

The biggest questions for LA are how much does Rui get offered and do they match that and do they try and resign DLo and for how much. 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Someone is going to extend him an offer sheet for 20 per+ and the Lakers are going to match it. Or someone will offer him less than that and the Lakers will still match it. It doesn't matter. 

That's a ridiculously declarative speculation masquerading as fact. The Lakers may very well do that, but matching a max offer for Austin Reaves would be dumb as fuck and negatively impact their tight window to compete for titles with James and Davis. And again, no team can just offer a straight $20M per year deal, including the Lakers. With teams looking at the coming changes overspending on mid-tier guys is probably going to become more rare as teams try to continue building around a two-star (i.e., two-max-contract) model.

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ztejas

ztejas 43549

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18 minutes ago, SilasCoade said:

The Lakers may very well do that, but matching a max offer for Austin Reaves would be dumb as fuck and negatively impact their tight window to compete for titles with James and Davis.

No it won't because the contract would be backloaded. He's going to be at something like 12 per for the next 2 seasons regardless.

They don't give a fuck about 2026, 2027 - LeBron and AD aren't going to be contending for titles 3 seasons from now.

Locking up the 3rd best player from a good WCF team for 20 and change over the next two seasons is a no brainer. That's amazing value and frankly pisses me off just thinking about it. 

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Kermit

Kermit 3159

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Posted

When y’all say third best player on the team, was it like AD, Lebron, (a couple of spaces), Austin Reeves, (chasm) and the rest of the team? Or AD, Lebron

 

 

 

 

Austin Reeves

 

 

 

 

Hell

 

 

 

 

 

Rest of team?

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18597

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@ztejas is right about Reaves.

I just realized that the Lakers can only offer him $50 million right now because CBA stuff. I would imagine that someone is going to offer Reaves $25/year and see if the Lakers blink I don't think they will. And it's not going to look like a terrible deal in four years. It has a better than zero chance to look like a bargain. I think he's a better all around player than Tyler Herro who is signed for $120 million over the same four years as Reaves will be signed for. 

Reaves can play off the ball. He can play on the ball. He can run pick and roll. He's an actual playmaker. He doesn't turn it over. He's a knock down three point shooter. He gets to the line. He's a good enough defender to where nobody is going hunting for him. He didn't flinch at all during the playoffs. In fact, his numbers got better. And he's on a really good trajectory from year one to year two at only 24 years old. Look at his numbers pre- and post-Westbrook. He took a massive step once that ball stopper got moved and they put the ball in his hands while the Lakers made their run from the lottery to the playoffs.

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HookEm

HookEm 2468

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I personally think Tyler Herro is a better player than Reaves.  He was one of the best (maybe the actual best) in crunch time this year.  In the 4th quarter he averaged 5.8 ppg and over 43% from 3 while shooting 100% from the FT line.  He is also a year younger than Reaves.

Herro is also a much better athlete.  Early in his career he had a 35" vertical and it is allegedly now closer to 40".  Austin Reaves measured at 25".  That sucks.  

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4432

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, HookEm said:

Bird would be absolutely insane in today’s NBA. I can’t even imagine how many 3s he would be hitting.  He was also a great rebounder and passer - and a near psychopath as a competitor.  I still think at his peak he was a top 3-4 player in NBA history and better than LeBron at his peak.  With modern training and medicine he should have been good for another 10 years.

I was going to post something similar: who would you draft over Bird if you could pick anyone to play in 2023? I’d think Bird would be in most people’s top 5, certainly not relegated to Euro ball. Bird was a better shooter and passer than Bron Bron, same height, was tough as hell and didn’t turn the hustle on and off.  Bird playing against modern players, defenses, and rules would be pretty silly. 

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d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:
21 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
.e65f1aaa32f98cd9ea20ef6f7d3e3cb7.jpg

IIRC, Andre couldn't shoot for shit.

Yeah Roberson was a great defender but a complete liability on the offensive end.   Kinda surprised about Faried not getting another look but I can see younger versions of him all over the league so it kinda makes sense that teams would go with younger versions due to price and possible upside

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14625

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yeah Roberson was a great defender but a complete liability on the offensive end.   Kinda surprised about Faried not getting another look but I can see younger versions of him all over the league so it kinda makes sense that teams would go with younger versions due to price and possible upside

Wasn't just a liability.  He had zero offensive skills of any kind.  He was an elite defender with A+ size and athleticism but despite playing organized basketball since birth or something, he could neither dribble, pass, or shoot from any distance.  Was air balling FT's at one point.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18597

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19 hours ago, d2o said:

 

 

It's honestly not a bad contract for him, but boy is Chicago stuck in purgatory. Pushing all of your chips into the table for Vooch, Lavine and Derozan was beyond stupid.

It's obviously an overpay but Houston had to do something to get up to the floor and these are both short term deals so there's nothing catastrophic here. It could take them out of next year's free agent market, but they could always move those expirings in a sign and trade if need be. FVV is a solid get, especially compared to the prospect of bringing back Harden. I honestly wouldn't want Dillon Brooks within 100 miles of a young team like this, though. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43549

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1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's honestly not a bad contract for him, but boy is Chicago stuck in purgatory. Pushing all of your chips into the table for Vooch, Lavine and Derozan was beyond stupid.

It's obviously an overpay but Houston had to do something to get up to the floor and these are both short term deals so there's nothing catastrophic here. It could take them out of next year's free agent market, but they could always move those expirings in a sign and trade if need be. FVV is a solid get, especially compared to the prospect of bringing back Harden. I honestly wouldn't want Dillon Brooks within 100 miles of a young team like this, though. 

There's a good team in there if you squint and look at it from the right angle - but this has some serious dumpster fire potential.

I don't understand why you would bring Brooks in when you just drafted Thompson. What exactly is the minutes breakdown and role responsibility going to be between Green, FVV, Thompson, KPJ and Brooks? What are the odds that all 5 of those guys are happy 30 games into the season?

Maybe Udoka is their saving grace - that was a great hire. But yeesh. I wouldn't sign up for trying to figure that backcourt out. 

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6209

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On 6/27/2023 at 8:35 AM, HookEm said:

Bird would be absolutely insane in today’s NBA. I can’t even imagine how many 3s he would be hitting.  He was also a great rebounder and passer - and a near psychopath as a competitor.  I still think at his peak he was a top 3-4 player in NBA history and better than LeBron at his peak.  With modern training and medicine he should have been good for another 10 years.

Rodman is a moeran.

I always like to wonder about Wilt Chamberlain with today's heath care, training, nutrition, physical therapy & style of play.

In my eyes he is the greatest player ever and had that sweet as hell fadeaway jumper, along with being an incredible athlete. I just think he is the greatest.

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11154

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is Anyone willing to put money on anyone other than Wemby for RoY?  The Spurs are notorious for Load Balancing, and I'm sure they will be cautious with him in his first year, so he may miss some games and fall out of the running if they are over protective.  I kind of like Chet as an option due to the OKC situation. Assuming he can stay healthy, he has a lot to prove, and not a lot of bigmen on the team that will compete with him for minutes. He should have a good opportunity to become a double-double guy. 

Quote

2024 NBA Rookie of the Year Odds

Odds courtesy of FanDuel Sportsbook

Player Odds
Victor Wembanyama -160
Scoot Henderson +400
Chet Holmgren +700
Brandon Miller +1600
Cam Whitmore +2500
Amen Thompson +3000
Jarace Walker +3500
Ausar Thompson +3500
Anthony Black +4500
Taylor Hendricks +4500
Gradey Dick +5000
Cason Wallace +6000

 

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