NBA 2023-24 Off Season

[Brothahorn 10087]

Woj working till the end...
[/url]  
 
And now, Woj is gone...
 

Thats not the same Woj.   The Woj in the vid is Adrian Wojnarowski
 

All those 'skis' look alike, right?

[Vic Mackey 47091]

.

[Aqua Buddha 14599]

I think the Wemby vs. Chet storyline will be interesting to come.  They have similar games and both play in the West so we'll get plenty of head to head match ups.  (All this is assuming they both stay healthy.)  They'll also both be a matchup nightmare for an opposing big that can't guard in space.

I know it's only summer league but some of these blocks.  Two handed volley ball spike at the 44 second mark.  Geez:

 

[ChickenSandwich 9843]

Popped up on my feed lol

 

[ztejas 43522]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I think the Wemby vs. Chet storyline will be interesting to come.  They have similar games and both play in the West so we'll get plenty of head to head match ups.  (All this is assuming they both stay healthy.)  They'll also both be a matchup nightmare for an opposing big that can't guard in space.

I know it's only summer league but some of these blocks.  Two handed volley ball spike at the 44 second mark.  Geez:

 

His defensive IQ is off the charts.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Herpa Derpa 6126]

wave bye bye

[Fastbreak 3989]

Bol must have attitude problems. For that contract and his production it’s actually value

[VinyVango 694]

.

Is that Flea?

[d2o 1602]

7 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Bol must have attitude problems. For that contract and his production it’s actually value

Yeah either that or he's injured again.   Something else is at play.   With his play last yr and that contract this is an extremely surprising move.

[HookEm 2467]

San Antonio should sign him.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

San Antonio should sign him.

#62 from Orlando or Bol Bol?

[Fastbreak 3989]

Bol played in 70 games had a 60% true shooting, 63% from 2, 76% from the FT Line.

[UpperWestside 6172]

52 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

#62 from Orlando or Bol Bol?

Why not both?

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Why not both?

Because we don’t need San Antonio winning 5 rings in 15 years and boasting a .800 winning clip during that time

[gsoda3 3274]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

 

 

 

mmm not a fan

[Chewbacca 7780]

13 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Bol must have attitude problems. For that contract and his production it’s actually value

He has serious work ethic problems.  That's why the Nuggets got rid of him.

[UpperWestside 6172]

9 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

He has serious work ethic problems.  That's why the Nuggets got rid of him.

Don’t worry there is, as always, a GM and organization that thinks they are the one that will fix that issue. Detroit wanted him before and they have first crack at him now. I would say that the Heat should pick him up and have him put in a storage closet with Udonis Haslem for 30 minutes. That might fix things.

[Post Oak 20254]

 

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14599]

A 7 team trade?  Yes!

[SilasCoade 2622]

The Heat would probably be better served just trying to convince the Nets to do Herro for Bridges straight up. Maybe the Heat throw in a 2nd round pick and the Nets add some low end salary filler or something.

[Fastbreak 3989]

Bridges is much better than Herro and has a better contact. No way the Nets make that swap.

[SilasCoade 2622]

Can't really disagree except that Herro is a few years younger, his current deal is one year shorter, and Bridges is not a championship caliber star to build around. That means the Nets currently have no championship window. Herro might fit their rebuild timeline better by virtue of being younger and that shorter contract makes it less risky if he doesn't work out.

[gsoda3 3274]

The nets would definitely want more than that for bridges.

[d2o 1602]

10 hours ago, SilasCoade said:

Can't really disagree except that Herro is a few years younger, his current deal is one year shorter, and Bridges is not a championship caliber star to build around. That means the Nets currently have no championship window. Herro might fit their rebuild timeline better by virtue of being younger and that shorter contract makes it less risky if he doesn't work out.

Bridges showed much more after the trade to the Nets than Herro ever has IMO.   That trade would be silly for the Nets

[Fastbreak 3989]

Chance of Bridges being at least an all-star reserve is about 50%. Chance of Herro = 0%

[d2o 1602]

 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

 

I think that was expected. Thybulle is limited offensively, but Portland wasn't going to move off of him for nothing especially when they're about to move a giant hunk of their cap. No downside to them re-signing him.

Regarding Bridges , heis a fantastic young two way player who never misses games locked into a very reasonable contract through 2026. The Nets reportedly turned down some pretty crazy offers for him at the deadline. I understand what they're thinking, but I don't think that KD trade is going to age particularly well for the Suns. What's Phoenix's window with a soon to be 35 year old Durant? 2 years? 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Herro needs to demand a trade to Denver, or Boston if Damian’s gonna play this pouty game where if anyone other than Miami gets him, he’ll be “frustrated “.

If miami doesn’t have anything Portland wants, it’s up to them to orchestra a multi team deal if they cover Lillard badly enough.

Meanwhile Portland should keep shopping. Not their fault miamis assets aren’t good.

[d2o 1602]

19 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I think that was expected. Thybulle is limited offensively, but Portland wasn't going to move off of him for nothing especially when they're about to move a giant hunk of their cap. No downside to them re-signing him.

Regarding Bridges , heis a fantastic young two way player who never misses games locked into a very reasonable contract through 2026. The Nets reportedly turned down some pretty crazy offers for him at the deadline. I understand what they're thinking, but I don't think that KD trade is going to age particularly well for the Suns. What's Phoenix's window with a soon to be 35 year old Durant? 2 years? 

Yep, couldnt see anyway POR wouldnt match and just lose him for nothing.  They can always trade him at the deadline if they really dont see a future for him.   The cap space taken by his deal means nothing to them right now.   Its not like they are looking to sign FAs

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Herro needs to demand a trade to Denver, or Boston if Damian’s gonna play this pouty game where if anyone other than Miami gets him, he’ll be “frustrated “.

If miami doesn’t have anything Portland wants, it’s up to them to orchestra a multi team deal if they cover Lillard badly enough.

Meanwhile Portland should keep shopping. Not their fault miamis assets aren’t good.

Yeah that statement from Dame's agent should be met with a "yeah whatever".   He has 4 yrs left on his deal and $200M+.   IF he wanted that kind of leverage he shouldnt have signed the extension last yr.   

[ztejas 43522]

40 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Chance of Bridges being at least an all-star reserve is about 50%. Chance of Herro = 0%

I'd give Herro more than 0%. He wasn't that far down the list last season. 

[Dutchrudder 11147]

Herro is only 23, so he certainly has time to develop more and get better. I think he's an enticing young player for a team that's rebuilding, like Portland... I think the Blazers issue is that they just gave Jerami Grant 5/160m and Simmons 4/100m.  They probably shouldn't have given Grant that much and don't want to take back any 9 figure contracts in the process. I am surprised, because if you stick Herro on the Dame-less Blazers and let him be the focal point of the offense, I bet you could turn him into an even better asset at the trade deadline this year or next offseason. They really need to dump Grant and Nurkic soon, both are 29 and won't fit into a rebuild plan. Grab all the 1sts you can get from Miami in the process and you have a good path forward to build a team in a few years. 

[HookEm 2467]

33 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'd give Herro more than 0%. He wasn't that far down the list last season. 

Agree completely.  Tyler Hero is still pretty young... a year younger than Marcus Carr is you can believe it.  Here are some comps of players at a similar stage of their career. 

• Player 1 – 23 – Year 4 – 20.1 PTS, 5.4 TRB, 4.2 AST, 0.8 STL, 2.4 TOV, 0.378 3P%, 0.934 FT%, 0.566 TS%, 34.9 MP, 67 GS, 25.6 USG (Tyler Herro) 
• Player 2 – 23 – Year 5 – 23.7 PTS, 4.7 TRB, 4.5 AST, 1.0 STL, 3.4 TOV, 0.374 3P%, 0.832 FT%, 0.574 TS%, 34.5 MP, 62 GS, 30.5 USG (Zach Lavine)
• Player 3 - 23 - Year 4 – 20.4 PTS, 2.3 TRB, 4.5 AST, 0.8 STL, 3.1 TOV, 0.336 3P%, 0.870 FT%, 0.573 TS%, 30.0 MP, 43 GS, 29.2 USG (Jordan Poole)
• Player 3 – 23 – Year 4 – 20.3 PTS, 6.4 TRB, 2.1 AST, 1.1 STL, 2.2 TOV, 0.382 3P%, 0.724 FT%, 0.583 TS%, 33.9 MP, 57 GS, 24.7 USG  (Jaylen Brown)  
• Player 4 – 25 – Year 4 – 25.1 PTS, 4.0 TRB, 6.8 AST, 0.9 STL, 3.2 TOV, 0.375 3P%, 0.892 FT%, 0.560 TS%, 35.7 MP, 75 GS, 31.3 USG  (Damian Lillard) 
• Player 4 – 22 – Year 4 – 26.6 PTS, 4.1 TRB, 6.8 AST, 0.9 STL, 4.1 TOV, 0.326 3P%, 0.866 FT%, 0.584 TS%, 35.0 MP, 64 GS, 32.9 USG  (Devin Booker) 
• Player 5 – 24 – Year 4 – 21.7 PTS, 3.2 TRB, 2.9 AST, 1.1 STL, 1.9 TOV, 0.439 3P%, 0.879 FT%, 0.591 TS%, 31.9 MP, 77 GS, 27.6 USG  (Klay Thompson) 

At the same stage, Herro is a better shooter than most of the players on the list and led the entire NBA in FT% this year.  His is great in crunch time.  He rebounds at a high rate for his position and has underrated athleticism.  He turns the ball over at a low rate and doesn't foul.  He gets buckets without dominating the ball (see his 25.6 USG).

I really think he would be a fantastic piece for Portland to build around alongside Scoot. But if I was Miami, I wouldn't give him up for Lillard's bloated contract.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

49 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Agree completely.  Tyler Hero is still pretty young... a year younger than Marcus Carr is you can believe it.  Here are some comps of players at a similar stage of their career. 

• Player 1 – 23 – Year 4 – 20.1 PTS, 5.4 TRB, 4.2 AST, 0.8 STL, 2.4 TOV, 0.378 3P%, 0.934 FT%, 0.566 TS%, 34.9 MP, 67 GS, 25.6 USG (Tyler Herro) 
• Player 2 – 23 – Year 5 – 23.7 PTS, 4.7 TRB, 4.5 AST, 1.0 STL, 3.4 TOV, 0.374 3P%, 0.832 FT%, 0.574 TS%, 34.5 MP, 62 GS, 30.5 USG (Zach Lavine)
• Player 3 - 23 - Year 4 – 20.4 PTS, 2.3 TRB, 4.5 AST, 0.8 STL, 3.1 TOV, 0.336 3P%, 0.870 FT%, 0.573 TS%, 30.0 MP, 43 GS, 29.2 USG (Jordan Poole)
• Player 3 – 23 – Year 4 – 20.3 PTS, 6.4 TRB, 2.1 AST, 1.1 STL, 2.2 TOV, 0.382 3P%, 0.724 FT%, 0.583 TS%, 33.9 MP, 57 GS, 24.7 USG  (Jaylen Brown)  
• Player 4 – 25 – Year 4 – 25.1 PTS, 4.0 TRB, 6.8 AST, 0.9 STL, 3.2 TOV, 0.375 3P%, 0.892 FT%, 0.560 TS%, 35.7 MP, 75 GS, 31.3 USG  (Damian Lillard) 
• Player 4 – 22 – Year 4 – 26.6 PTS, 4.1 TRB, 6.8 AST, 0.9 STL, 4.1 TOV, 0.326 3P%, 0.866 FT%, 0.584 TS%, 35.0 MP, 64 GS, 32.9 USG  (Devin Booker) 
• Player 5 – 24 – Year 4 – 21.7 PTS, 3.2 TRB, 2.9 AST, 1.1 STL, 1.9 TOV, 0.439 3P%, 0.879 FT%, 0.591 TS%, 31.9 MP, 77 GS, 27.6 USG  (Klay Thompson) 

At the same stage, Herro is a better shooter than most of the players on the list and led the entire NBA in FT% this year.  His is great in crunch time.  He rebounds at a high rate for his position and has underrated athleticism.  He turns the ball over at a low rate and doesn't foul.  He gets buckets without dominating the ball (see his 25.6 USG).

I really think he would be a fantastic piece for Portland to build around alongside Scoot. But if I was Miami, I wouldn't give him up for Lillard's bloated contract.

The offensive numbers are good and he looked like a future superstar as a rookie in the bubble, but he's a poor defender and the elephant in the room is that the Heat got demonstrably better in the playoffs once he got hurt. I don't know that his value has ever been lower since he got drafted.

Miami would be more than happy to give him up for Lillard's bloated contract. Portland doesn't want him. He doesn't fit their new tanking timeline, and he's probably just good enough with what else is on the roster (Simons, Grant + developing youngsters) to keep them out of the deadass bottom of the lottery. They've been there and done that for too long now. Part of the reason the Lillard trade is stalling is that no third team is willing to throw in some extra picks Portland's way to scoop him up. And Portland doesn't feel like they could flip him later. If he were on a little bit of a cheaper deal, they would probably get more takers. 

[ztejas 43522]

36 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

the elephant in the room is that the Heat got demonstrably better in the playoffs once he got hurt.

I haven't seen anyone else claim this and I find it hard to believe that it's accurate. He was on the bubble Finals team and he was on the team last season that had a 2-1 lead against Boston before he got injured and they dropped 3 of the next 4. He had 12/8/7 in their play-in game against CHI (granted he was 0/5 from BTA) and then he got hurt right before halftime of G1 against Milwaukee with MIA up 12.

Maybe they can be just as good without him for stretches or maybe they win the Finals if he doesn't break his hand (maybe they get bounced in R1 if Giannis doesn't get hurt). Maybe they don't even make the playoffs if he tears his Achilles in October. It's all hypotheticals. 

(I agree that he doesn't fit what POR is doing and isn't that valuable of a trade asset)

Edited July 6, 2023 by ztejas

[Dutchrudder 11147]

Maybe San Antonio could try to snag Herro in the Dame trade?  He's young enough to be a part of the Spurs timeline, and his contract doesn't look too bad given some of the others given out in the last year. The Spurs have always been great at helping players improve their shooting, and Herro is at the age when a lot of players make a big leap forward. They have plenty of future picks to offer in a trade and they kind of need a SG. Unless they have some grand plans for next year's free agency, it might be worth going after him. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Dutchrudder

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I haven't seen anyone else claim this and I find it hard to believe that it's accurate. He was on the bubble Finals team and he was on the team last season that had a 2-1 lead against Boston before he got injured and they dropped 3 of the next 4. He had 12/8/7 in their play-in game against CHI (granted he was 0/5 from BTA) and then he got hurt right before halftime of G1 against Milwaukee with MIA up 12.

Maybe they can be just as good without him for stretches or maybe they win the Finals if he doesn't break his hand (maybe they get bounced in R1 if Giannis doesn't get hurt). Maybe they don't even make the playoffs if he tears his Achilles in October. It's all hypotheticals. 

(I agree that he doesn't fit what POR is doing and isn't that valuable of a trade asset)

All I am saying is that Miami making the finals without him isn't necessarily helping his trade value vs. what you saw from Bruce Brown, for example. Be it out of sight / out of mind mentality or the fact that they played markedly better without him, the perception of him right now isn't at its peak.

11 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Maybe San Antonio could try to snag Herro in the Dame trade?  He's young enough to be a part of the Spurs timeline, and his contract doesn't look too bad given some of the others given out in the last year. The Spurs have always been great at helping players improve their shooting, and Herro is at the age when a lot of players make a big leap forward. They have plenty of future picks to offer in a trade and they kind of need a SG. Unless they have some grand plans for next year's free agency, it might be worth going after him. 

From what I was told, there is almost no chance the Spurs take his contract. They're keeping the books clean not only for next year, but probably the next few years. They are still in asset accumulation mode. Renting cap for picks 6 years from now? Yes. All day, apparently. Giving up some of their war chest while taking on a not great 4 year commitment for a guy who doesn't play defense and would take minutes away from Vassell and Keldon Johnson all the while not moving the needle on a ring? No way.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

Herro has two glaring negatives in his game: he still takes and misses a lot of bad 2-pt shots and he does not play good defense. Both are fixable with maturity. I did think his contract had 3 years remaining rather than 4, which was wrong. Still, I would not consider his contract bad on the level of Jordan Poole or Bradley Beal. I would put it at better value than Tobias Harris's contract, for example. I think it might be interesting to watch Herro in a situation where he was the #1 offensive option and had to carry a team like the Nets.

 

Let me toss out another shit-stirring hypothetical:

Dallas-Portland-Miami: Mavs send Kyrie to Portland and get Herro plus picks, Portland sends Dame to Miami and also pick up draft picks.

 

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[d2o 1602]

 

Recouping some of those 2nds they gave up to get Beal

 

 

 

[Fastbreak 3989]

The suns are killing it (besides the Beal thing).

[Dutchrudder 11147]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

 

 

 

So are they keeping  him, or did they negotiate this so they can trade him now or midseason?

[Blotto 23560]

23 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Bridges is much better than Herro and has a better contact. No way the Nets make that swap.

"much better" seems like a stretch when Herro gets fewer mpg and yet still averages more points, rebounds, and assists

"better" at this point would probably come down to who fits a particular team's needs best, and I wont speak to what the Nets need, because that roster seems to turnover every year or two. 

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

"much better" seems like a stretch when Herro gets fewer mpg and yet still averages more points, rebounds, and assists

"better" at this point would probably come down to who fits a particular team's needs best, and I wont speak to what the Nets need, because that roster seems to turnover every year or two. 

Bridges was the 3rd or 4th option until he was traded to the Nets.   He play after the trade showed me more than anything Herro has done

 

15 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

So are they keeping  him, or did they negotiate this so they can trade him now or midseason?

They cannot trade him until Jan 15 or so.   Havent heard any rumors of them shopping him.

[ztejas 43522]

22 hours ago, Blotto said:

"much better" seems like a stretch when Herro gets fewer mpg and yet still averages more points, rebounds, and assists

"better" at this point would probably come down to who fits a particular team's needs best, and I wont speak to what the Nets need, because that roster seems to turnover every year or two. 

Bridges is a pretty clearly better player. For starters, he's a big plus on D. 

However, they both fall into a similar bucket imo. I think Bridges is either a very weak championship 2 (like - next to Giannis or Jokic) or decent championship 3. Herro is right under that in that he'll probably never be the 2nd best player on a title team but might be good enough to be the 3rd.

Bridges is overrated in my book and Herro's value is difficult to quantify as he's a volume scoring guard. Your skepticism is reasonable even though I'd disagree.