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Sam Bankman-Fried (SBF) crypto exchange FTX

Zeus

By Zeus
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Zeus

Zeus 6008

Posted
Posted

Everything's going to turn out ok for him, lucky guy!

https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/06/15/sam-bankman-fried-victory-prosecutors-charges-bribery/

Or maybe two criminal charges instead of one.

Either way, popcorn out to see where all that money went. 

Funny he was lobbying to get 'regulation' passed too.

Quote

 

FTX had lobbied heavily in support of the bill from Boozman and Senate Agriculture Chair Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.). Congressional staff also drafted the bill in consultation with leaders at the CFTC.

Behnam, who served as an aide to Stabenow before taking the helm of the agency, said lawmakers need to give the CFTC more power to regulate digital asset markets.

Before FTX’s bankruptcy, Bankman-Fried and FTX U.S. head of policy Mark Wetjen — the CFTC’s former acting chair — had been lobbying the agency to sign off on a plan that would have allowed the company to loan money to retail investors for round-the-clock crypto trades. Wetjen late last week removed the company from his LinkedIn profile and deleted his Twitter account, which had included his title.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/14/crypto-exchange-ftx-regulation-bankman-fried-00066815

 

Stay calm and HODL bros

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Captainant

Captainant 27521

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Posted
8 hours ago, Mighty fine said:

There are two separate youtube channels I follow , Patrick Boyle and Coffeezilla, which have some petty good videos with a lot of investigative background and general commentary on this.

Coffee has been going buckwild with all the cryptofrauds and conmen and dumb money floating around. He's been great for shining a light into that dark corner of the internet 

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Parliament

Parliament 14157

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28 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

The one thing I didn't realize about all this, was that it sounds like the money pilfered, lost, stolen, mismanaged (all the above), is actually going to be recouped because of a bounce back in value of BTC plus the investment it took on an AI firm that just announced partnerships with Google and Amazon and is now worth 20-30 billion dollar valuation (Anthropic):

I wonder if the AI boom happened earlier before the house of cards fell apart, if he would have gotten away with the skullduggery and floats.

I know it’s wrong, but I hate those dillweeds even more because of that.

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Captainant

Captainant 27521

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Hmm, I wonder if fraudulent loans work this same way…

I'm my mind, loans are pretty different from customer funds in customer held accounts. Since most loans that I know of require both parties to consent and necessarily be aware of what's happening

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31365

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19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I'm my mind, loans are pretty different from customer funds in customer held accounts. Since most loans that I know of require both parties to consent and necessarily be aware of what's happening

From the sentencing standpoint, any federal financial crime takes into account the "loss" caused by the crime.  Any recoupment of losses occurring after the "detection" of the crime doesn't reduce the loss number, which can significantly influence the guideline range for sentencing.  The idea being anything "paid back" after the defendant is caught is not worthy of consideration.

So, this would have no effect on SBF's sentencing guideline range.

In the case of a bank or mortgage fraud, assuming there was no default and associated loss prior to detection, there would be no loss.  So, using the Trump example, there's no loss figure currently relevant.  A subsequent default on a fraudulently obtained loan might well create a loss number and any effort to pay that back would not reduce it.

But, Tish James is not attempting to prove that kind of fraud, it's different and not reliant on any bank or insurer being actually deceived in issuing the loan.  In fact, the penalty she seeks is unjust enrichment, the amount Trump gained by the fraud rather than any actual loss incurred by the "victims."

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31365

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Overall, this whole thing is pretty stunning.  Not only the fraud, but I can't remember a case where the government jumped into action so quickly.

Not even a year ago, FTX cratered, the government figured it out, got every single lower-level exec to plead and give evidence and got this dipshit indicted, tried, and convicted in under a year.  And the defendant a white guy with resources.

Extraordinary.

Seems to be a just result, but it's also a little frightening when you think about it.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29307

Posted
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10 hours ago, BeardIP said:

The one thing I didn't realize about all this, was that it sounds like the money pilfered, lost, stolen, mismanaged (all the above), is actually going to be recouped because of a bounce back in value of BTC plus the investment it took on an AI firm that just announced partnerships with Google and Amazon and is now worth 20-30 billion dollar valuation (Anthropic):

I wonder if the AI boom happened earlier before the house of cards fell apart, if he would have gotten away with the skullduggery and floats.

How many fucking times do people need to tell you to link to what you're quoting man?

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29307

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Overall, this whole thing is pretty stunning.  Not only the fraud, but I can't remember a case where the government jumped into action so quickly.

Not even a year ago, FTX cratered, the government figured it out, got every single lower-level exec to plead and give evidence and got this dipshit indicted, tried, and convicted in under a year.  And the defendant a white guy with resources.

Extraordinary.

Seems to be a just result, but it's also a little frightening when you think about it.

SBF's and his co-conspirators' stupidity made the government's work extremely easy. 

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

SBF's and his co-conspirators' stupidity made the government's work extremely easy. 

Anyone know where I can read a decent synopsis of this case? I haven't followed more than the headlines, but I've gotten the vibe it was "Oh I didn't know I couldn't do that." versus a Madoff-like greed driver. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104794

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

SBF's and his co-conspirators' stupidity made the government's work extremely easy. 

It wasn't stupidity as much as it was arrogance (and yeah....I know that these days, those two things are damned near indistinguishable).  The amount of criming happening right out in the open, as the criminals brag about it, is fucking amazing. They fucking BRAG about their criming, thinking that it's amazing because it's happening on such a broad scale.

Defraud someone of $50k?  You're a con-man, and should go to jail.

Defraud thousand/millions of $5 billion?  You're a super brain-genius, and every incel and troll in the world worships you.

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9841

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11 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

You’d think that someone smart enough to steal billions of dollars would be smart enough to find a place where billions of dollars would buy you “no extradition”.

Pretty much everywhere will extradite you for the right price, unless you make yourself priceless like Snowden or (for a hot minute) Assange did.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31365

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

It wasn't stupidity as much as it was arrogance (and yeah....I know that these days, those two things are damned near indistinguishable).  The amount of criming happening right out in the open, as the criminals brag about it, is fucking amazing. They fucking BRAG about their criming, thinking that it's amazing because it's happening on such a broad scale.

Defraud someone of $50k?  You're a con-man, and should go to jail.

Defraud thousand/millions of $5 billion?  You're a super brain-genius, and every incel and troll in the world worships you.

I have seen a few decent articles talking about this culture of arrogant greed and disregard of business norms in the commercialization of "disruptive tech" in the Silicon Valley and surrounding Stanford in particular.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29307

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Anyone know where I can read a decent synopsis of this case? I haven't followed more than the headlines, but I've gotten the vibe it was "Oh I didn't know I couldn't do that." versus a Madoff-like greed driver. 

They had a group text named "wire fraud." 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104794

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I have seen a few decent articles talking about this culture of arrogant greed and disregard of business norms in the commercialization of "disruptive tech" in the Silicon Valley and surrounding Stanford in particular.

Yep.

"Disruptive, innnovative visionary!" is sadly often code for "doesn't follow the fucking law or pay any attention to the guardrails that have long existed to keep people from being buttfucked."  I mean, it's "innovative and visionary" to save money on my new vehicle line by eliminating seatbelts and airbags, so now I can undercut the competition!  And so what if people die by the hundreds behind the wheel of my car, to make a super brain genius disruptive innovation omelette, you gotta break a few (hundred/thousand) eggs!

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31365

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1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Anyone know where I can read a decent synopsis of this case? I haven't followed more than the headlines, but I've gotten the vibe it was "Oh I didn't know I couldn't do that." versus a Madoff-like greed driver. 

Long story short, FTX was a crypto-exchange, pretty legit as far as those go.  But there was also an investment bank called Alameda Research that was co-owned and affiliated.

Alameda used deposited funds at FTX to finance and invest all kinds of things without ever hinting that FTX depositors funds were subject to such use.

When crypto cratered, depositors did a bank run on their funds, which were no longer there because Alameda, with SBF's knowledge and approval, had misappropriated them.  FTX had to file bankruptcy to avoid the run and the whole scheme fell apart.

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Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Long story short, FTX was a crypto-exchange, pretty legit as far as those go.  But there was also an investment bank called Alameda Research that was co-owned and affiliated.

Alameda used deposited funds at FTX to finance and invest all kinds of things without ever hinting that FTX depositors funds were subject to such use.

When crypto cratered, depositors did a bank run on their funds, which were no longer there because Alameda, with SBF's knowledge and approval, had misappropriated them.  FTX had to file bankruptcy to avoid the run and the whole scheme fell apart.

Yeah, that's the extent of my knowledge of the case that I've picked.

What I don't know if this was done out of "I'm going to get rich breaking the law," "I have to do this to keep the business afloat," or "I didn't know I couldn't do that because I play video games while being interviewed." 

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104794

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Just now, FirstTimeCaller said:

Yeah, that's the extent of my knowledge of the case that I've picked.

What I don't know if this was done out of "I'm going to get rich breaking the law," "I have to do this to keep the business afloat," or "I didn't know I couldn't do that because I play video games while being interviewed." 

 

It arose out of flat-out hubris, and the belief that 1) I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world, and 2) therefore, if I have an idea to do something, it's not wrong, because I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world.

It's just good old fashioned human hubris/arrogance/folly.

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gernblansten

gernblansten 3191

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20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It arose out of flat-out hubris, and the belief that 1) I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world, and 2) therefore, if I have an idea to do something, it's not wrong, because I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world.

It's just good old fashioned human hubris/arrogance/folly.

So, not a simple country boy and cockeyed optimist who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue?

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It arose out of flat-out hubris, and the belief that 1) I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world, and 2) therefore, if I have an idea to do something, it's not wrong, because I'm a super disruptive brain-genius who is changing the world.

It's just good old fashioned human hubris/arrogance/folly.

Him and Theranos girl are cut from the same cloth.  And a lot of it is the fault of the people in charge.  They pushed the hell outta the I believe button because they wanted to believe.

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12819

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35 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Yeah, that's the extent of my knowledge of the case that I've picked.

What I don't know if this was done out of "I'm going to get rich breaking the law," "I have to do this to keep the business afloat," or "I didn't know I couldn't do that because I play video games while being interviewed." 

 

 

It was the:

  • "I'm not going to get caught"
  • "I can use this money because I am going to make so much more money, so I'll be able to put it back" 

mind set

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12819

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14 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

So, not a simple country boy and cockeyed optimist who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue?

Nope, just your run of the mill silver spoon raised white male, that had every advantage in life, thought he could break the law and get away with it.

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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the fact that Doge coin got to 50 cents a coin at one point made me laugh.  Like the dudes made a coin as a joke.  It is unlimited in the production, but it got to that price.  Liker what does it do?  oh, it's a cool ass coin.  NFTs and digital real estate also made me laugh.  Like wait you bought a million dollars of real estate in a digital world? 

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16592

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1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

Him and Theranos girl are cut from the same cloth.  And a lot of it is the fault of the people in charge.  They pushed the hell outta the I believe button because they wanted to believe.

Elizabeth Holmes had one of the bigger cases of crazy eyes I've ever seen.  It's difficult to believe that so many people bought what she was selling just on that alone.  

The other part about all this is that at one point this guy was worth billions, and he was laying pipe to Caroline Ellison?  While he was busy criming I found it a bit odd he wasn't blowing it on normal dumb guy shit like cocaine and knockout whores.  

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Rudiger

Rudiger 1160

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5 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The other part about all this is that at one point this guy was worth billions, and he was laying pipe to Caroline Ellison?  While he was busy criming I found it a bit odd he wasn't blowing it on normal dumb guy shit like cocaine and knockout whores.  

This is the real crime.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14883

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Moving this out of the Elon thread... most of the stories about who he was paying off to influence crypto regulators are around the December timeframe where there are records that show he donated $40M to D but also said he donated an equal amount to R in dark money. This article talks about where the $50M in dark money went.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/20/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-allies-donated-millions-in-dark-money.html

 

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