Tourist Trip to Titanic Terribly Turns Tragic

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

1 hour ago, PvilleStang said:

I do admit, going back to the last page about the SM influencer that was on the sub a few weeks prior:

They show them throwing the docking line to the sub platform, and the line ball hits the top of the sub... I'd be curious how well that CF shell was protected from impact.  Stupid unnecessary impacts like that to the shell over time could cause issues in the shell which those defects could be the cause of something stupid like this.

 

Also, really bugs me that there are people who are ABSOLUTELY passionate about this, and would spend their life savings on joining a crew to see such things, and then there's some 20-something that just plops down a blank check from his social media funds to go take a trip for likes and subscriptions.  Kid probably has no idea who James Cameron is. 

During the same video when the influencer got a water sample for his family with a rope and bucket over the side……sadly I figured this is how they would also recover the bodies. 

[Ellellelle 308]

I do admit, going back to the last page about the SM influencer that was on the sub a few weeks prior:
They show them throwing the docking line to the sub platform, and the line ball hits the top of the sub... I'd be curious how well that CF shell was protected from impact.  Stupid unnecessary impacts like that to the shell over time could cause issues in the shell which those defects could be the cause of something stupid like this.
 
Also, really bugs me that there are people who are ABSOLUTELY passionate about this, and would spend their life savings on joining a crew to see such things, and then there's some 20-something that just plops down a blank check from his social media funds to go take a trip for likes and subscriptions.  Kid probably has no idea who James Cameron is. 

If this is the YouTuber, he originally had a disclaimer in the description saying he didn't pay anything to get a seat, but it looks like that disclaimer is gone now. The CEO was desperate to get people on so I could see him giving a huge YouTuber a free trip for the media.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

Interesting

https://www.insider.com/stockton-rush-ceo-shut-down-oceangate-before-operating-unsafe-sub-2023-6

Quote

Stockton Rush, the CEO of OceanGate who died last week when his Titan submersible catastrophically imploded on a dive to the Titanic shipwreck, told a friend in 2019 he would shut down his company before operating an unsafe vessel, according to emails obtained by Insider.

Rush was emailing his friend Karl Stanley, an expert in submersibles who had expressed serious concerns to him about the integrity of the Titan after hearing cracking noises on a dive in the Bahamas that year.

Quote

"I think that hull has a defect near that flange, that will only get worse. The only question in my mind is will it fail catastrophically or not," Stanley said in an email to Rush

Quote

"I made it clear after our dive that I will not take nonessential crew, clients or media in the sub until I am confident that the hull is safe," Rush insisted in his response to Stanley. "As I told you before, I cancelled last year's expedition and will cancel this year's, or even shut down the company, before I will operate an unsafe sub."

 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

Want to read about a decompression accident?  And blood boiling instantly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident

Quote

On Saturday, 5 November 1983, at 4:00 a.m., while drilling in the Frigg gas field in the Norwegian sector of the North Sea, four divers were in a diving chamber system on the rig's deck that was connected by a trunk (a short passage) to a diving bell. The divers were Edwin Arthur Coward (British, 35 years old), Roy P. Lucas (British, 38), Bjørn Giæver Bergersen (Norwegian, 29) and Truls Hellevik (Norwegian, 34). They were assisted by two dive tenders, William Crammond (British, 32) and Martin Saunders.[3]

At the time of the accident, decompression chambers 1 and 2 (along with a third chamber which was not in use at the time) were connected via a trunk to a diving bell. The connection made by the trunk was kept sealed by a clamp operated by Crammond and Saunders, who were experienced divers. Coward and Lucas were resting in chamber 2 at a pressure of 9 atmospheres (atm). The diving bell with Bergersen and Hellevik had just been winched up after a dive and joined to the trunk. Leaving their wet equipment in the trunk, the two divers climbed through the trunk into chamber 1

 

The normal procedure would have been:

1. Close the diving bell door, which would have been open to the trunk.
2. Slightly increase the pressure in the diving bell to seal the bell door tightly.
3. Close the chamber 1 door, which was also open to the trunk.
4. Slowly depressurize the trunk until it reached a pressure of 1 atm.
5. Open the clamp to separate the diving bell from the chamber system.

The first two steps had been completed when Crammond mistakenly opened the clamp that was keeping the trunk sealed before Hellevik (diver 4) had closed the door to the chamber. This resulted in the chamber being instantly decompressed from 9 atmospheres to the ambient external pressure of 1 atm. Air rushed out of the chamber system with tremendous force, jamming the interior trunk door and pushing the bell away, striking the two tenders. All four divers were killed; one of the tenders, Crammond, was killed, while Saunders was severely injured.

Medical investigations were carried out on the remains of the four divers. The most notable finding was the presence of large amounts of fat in large arteries and veins and in the cardiac chambers, as well as intravascular fat in organs, especially the liver.[3]: 97, 101  This fat was unlikely to be embolic, but must have precipitated from the blood in situ.[3]: 101  The autopsy suggested that rapid bubble formation in the blood denatured the lipoprotein complexes, rendering the lipids insoluble.[3]: 101  The blood of the three divers who were found intact inside the chambers likely boiled instantly, stopping their circulation.[3]: 101  The fourth diver died instantly from gross dismemberment when the blast forced his body out through the partially blocked doorway.[3]: 95, 100–101 

Coward, Lucas, and Bergersen were exposed to the effects of explosive decompression and died in the positions indicated by the diagram. Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.[

[Angry Gorilla 1755]

ST. JOHN’S, CANADA—After collecting debris from the ocean floor and examining it at a nearby pier, the U.S. Coast Guard reported Thursday it had found horse remains within the wreckage of the Titan submersible. “In our excavation of this catastrophic implosion, we have recovered both human and equine tissues, including the crushed carcass of a thoroughbred stallion that appears to have traveled aboard the Titan vessel,” said Coast Guard Capt. Stan Partridge, whose remarks led to feverish online speculation about whether a 1,200-pound horse could have contributed to what went wrong with the sub during its doomed descent. “It wasn’t just a single horse either, but several, perhaps an entire herd. It’s unclear whether the horses were passengers, some kind of entertainment, or a team of draft horses used to pull the submersible during its 2.5-mile journey to the bottom of the sea.” At press time, sources reported that the remains could simply be horsehide that was used in the construction of the Titan as a cheaper alternative to titanium.
https://www.theonion.com/horse-remains-recovered-from-titan-sub-wreckage-1850591865
Lately they've been pretty on the ball.

[Telegraph_it 3353]

26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Want to read about a decompression accident?  And blood boiling instantly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident

 

The normal procedure would have been:

1. Close the diving bell door, which would have been open to the trunk.
2. Slightly increase the pressure in the diving bell to seal the bell door tightly.
3. Close the chamber 1 door, which was also open to the trunk.
4. Slowly depressurize the trunk until it reached a pressure of 1 atm.
5. Open the clamp to separate the diving bell from the chamber system.

The first two steps had been completed when Crammond mistakenly opened the clamp that was keeping the trunk sealed before Hellevik (diver 4) had closed the door to the chamber. This resulted in the chamber being instantly decompressed from 9 atmospheres to the ambient external pressure of 1 atm. Air rushed out of the chamber system with tremendous force, jamming the interior trunk door and pushing the bell away, striking the two tenders. All four divers were killed; one of the tenders, Crammond, was killed, while Saunders was severely injured.

Medical investigations were carried out on the remains of the four divers. The most notable finding was the presence of large amounts of fat in large arteries and veins and in the cardiac chambers, as well as intravascular fat in organs, especially the liver.[3]: 97, 101  This fat was unlikely to be embolic, but must have precipitated from the blood in situ.[3]: 101  The autopsy suggested that rapid bubble formation in the blood denatured the lipoprotein complexes, rendering the lipids insoluble.[3]: 101  The blood of the three divers who were found intact inside the chambers likely boiled instantly, stopping their circulation.[3]: 101  The fourth diver died instantly from gross dismemberment when the blast forced his body out through the partially blocked doorway.[3]: 95, 100–101 

Coward, Lucas, and Bergersen were exposed to the effects of explosive decompression and died in the positions indicated by the diagram. Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.[

[PTINS 3442]

On 6/29/2023 at 2:02 PM, HonkeyVape said:

Anyone seen a good, short, primer video of professionals narrating how this happened, like a youtube video? Curious about the physics of the implosion.

A theology class anticipated they would be asked to discuss St. Peter on their final. When the Professor wrote "Criticize Jesus"on the board, the class was stunned. Nobody moved for 5 minutes. Then one student opened his bluebook, and started madly writing until he filled the book, for which he receiver an "A". What did he write? "Who am I to criticize Jesus? But let me tell you about St. Peter..."

I only have an opinion of the implosion dynamics of Titan, but a more informed understanding of the explosion/rupture of similar pressure vessel.

Large commercial propane tanks range in size from tanker trucks (10,000 gallons), to rail cars (30,000 gallons) to fixed storage tanks (60-90,000 gallons, 10-12 feet in diameter, 60-90 feet long ). All have similar construction, hemispherical heads welded to a rolled steel plate shell, with a maximum pressure of ~250 PSI.  Tanks are filled with liquid propane to a maximum of 90% of the volume, with the remaining 10% being filled with vapor. A pressure relief valve vents high pressure vapor insuring the tanks are never over pressured.

In those very rare cases when a tank ruptures, fire is almost always the cause of the rupture. Flames impinging on the tank boils the liquid propane at a rate that exceeds the capacity of the pressure relief valve, increasing the internal pressure in the tank until it explodes. The resulting BLEVE,  "boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion", results in a catastrophic destruction of the storage tank.  BLEVE

Storage tanks installed at Gas Processing plants usually have saddles welded to the tanks, which are bolted to reinforced concrete foundations. They are meant to be permanent installations that do not move.

For tanks with welded saddles, the ruptured tank is usually torn into 3 distinct pieces; The saddle (1) , the orange peel (2), and the bullet (3).  (Note this picture shows a tank laying on a concrete saddle as opposed to having a welded saddle.)

 

The saddle portion of the tank is left attached to the foundation, the orange peel is torn off and looks like an orange that has been peeled in one piece. The bullet, appropriately nicknamed, becomes an opened ended projectile ejected at high pressure, with the additional energy provided by a 10 foot diameter, open ended, liquid fueled rocket engine. the bullet can be projected 1-2 miles from the explosion.  In the films I saw in the early 80's, they usually found the guys camera, not always the guy.

Bleve explosion

In my opinion, the Titan implosion is similar, but different.  Similar, as in a rapid, catastrophic failure. Titan's construction of a carbon fiber shell mechanically joined to the titanium heads was a big red "x" for me, for a lot of reasons. I don't think you can stress relieve carbon fiber the way you can steel. 6,000 PSI? No f$%&ing way!!!

Anything attached to the hull in any way would localize stress at a specific point rather than distributing the stress uniformly across the entire surface.  The picture of something mechanically joined (screwed) to the internal wall was scary, reminded me of Clark Griswold picking at the walls of the Hoover Dam.

A localized stress could lead to a failure that would quickly implode the capsule. When the capsule integrity was compromised and exposed to the 6,000 PSI water pressure, the rapid increase in internal pressure confined to a tiny volume would be a violent transfer of energy, destroying the mechanical coupling of the shell to the metal heads, and obliterating everything that wasn't solid.

Uugh!

 

 

[ballrific 215]

was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.[

[ClubWhatever 12085]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Interesting

https://www.insider.com/stockton-rush-ceo-shut-down-oceangate-before-operating-unsafe-sub-2023-6

 

The reference to the flange is interesting.  I assume he is talking about the titanium flange that the spherical end caps bolt on to.  I read that that flange is bonded to the carbon fiber cylinder.  If so that is something that absolutely should have been tested (with a throwaway copy) for like 3 or 4 times as many dives as the man-rated version was intended to make.  It's crazy that it wasn't.  Under pressure a sphere and cylinder want to expand (or shrink) at different rates because the sphere is inherently more efficient than a cylinder.  That's why the weld in a metal pressure vessel of this shape is a critical area.   If you are bonding that joint ans you aren't testing for several product lifetimes then you have made a gross engineering error.   

[Mighty fine 169]

Came across the incident investigation report for the Byford Dolphin a couple of days ago (reddit i think). It has photos of the aftermath; gruesome ordeal all in the blink of an eye

[atomheartbevo 89362]

27 minutes ago, Mighty fine said:

Came across the incident investigation report for the Byford Dolphin a couple of days ago (reddit i think). It has photos of the aftermath; gruesome ordeal all in the blink of an eye

Yeah, I accidentally came across the photo of Hellevik's body and it is nightmare material.

Edit: It was reddit, and I mistakenly clicked the "Yes I'm 18" button and then there it was.

Somebody who researched it found a photo of what he would have went through - it's the boot side of this manhole cover picture

https://imgur.com/a/kjGIm

If you don't want to sleep, here's the autopsy and photos of everybody

Spoiler

https://zero.sci-hub.se/5268/7dda7cee52d7eb3ec606a82d0f1b9a61/giertsen1988.pdf

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89362]

For reference, some Titan gawkers came into one of the reddit threads and explained the obvious differences:

Quote

 

It is basically the reverse as far as I understand it. The Titan guys were instantly compressed by something in the region of 400 ATM, they went from low pressure to instantly crushing pressure in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second. The Dolphin accident was from high pressure to low pressure in the same time frame.

Titan was much more pressure though. Dolphin went from 9 ATM to 1 ATM, Titan went from maybe 1-2 ATM of pressure in their sub to approx 330 ATM. An implosion so fast our brain cant even register the event.

 

 

[CycleTex87 2953]

I ain’t clicking on that. 

[freyguy 4245]

20 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Want to read about a decompression accident?  And blood boiling instantly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident

 

The normal procedure would have been:

1. Close the diving bell door, which would have been open to the trunk.
2. Slightly increase the pressure in the diving bell to seal the bell door tightly.
3. Close the chamber 1 door, which was also open to the trunk.
4. Slowly depressurize the trunk until it reached a pressure of 1 atm.
5. Open the clamp to separate the diving bell from the chamber system.

The first two steps had been completed when Crammond mistakenly opened the clamp that was keeping the trunk sealed before Hellevik (diver 4) had closed the door to the chamber. This resulted in the chamber being instantly decompressed from 9 atmospheres to the ambient external pressure of 1 atm. Air rushed out of the chamber system with tremendous force, jamming the interior trunk door and pushing the bell away, striking the two tenders. All four divers were killed; one of the tenders, Crammond, was killed, while Saunders was severely injured.

Medical investigations were carried out on the remains of the four divers. The most notable finding was the presence of large amounts of fat in large arteries and veins and in the cardiac chambers, as well as intravascular fat in organs, especially the liver.[3]: 97, 101  This fat was unlikely to be embolic, but must have precipitated from the blood in situ.[3]: 101  The autopsy suggested that rapid bubble formation in the blood denatured the lipoprotein complexes, rendering the lipids insoluble.[3]: 101  The blood of the three divers who were found intact inside the chambers likely boiled instantly, stopping their circulation.[3]: 101  The fourth diver died instantly from gross dismemberment when the blast forced his body out through the partially blocked doorway.[3]: 95, 100–101 

Coward, Lucas, and Bergersen were exposed to the effects of explosive decompression and died in the positions indicated by the diagram. Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.[

and that's how you make a roux...

[miguelito 11204]

[pacman 7309]

 

 

[52-80 19066]

On 7/1/2023 at 4:28 PM, CycleTex87 said:

I ain’t clicking on that. 

@Gil Bang??

[MrBig 5279]

Asking the accountant to drive the boat designed by college interns and using an ops crew paid $15/hr
 

https://www.insider.com/oceangate-stockton-rush-finance-director-quit-submersible-pilot-fired-2023-7?amp
 

OceanGate's former finance director said she quit when Stockton Rush asked her to be the Titanic submersible's chief pilot after firing the original one for raising safety issues: report

Jul 3, 2023, 1:17 AM ET

• A former OceanGate finance director said Stockton Rush asked her to be the head pilot for the Titan.
• She told The New Yorker that she quit when the OceanGate CEO urged her to replace the former pilot.
• The pilot, David Lochridge, previously said he was fired for noting concerns about the sub's safety.

A former director of finance and administration for OceanGate said the company's CEO, Stockton Rush, asked her in 2018 to become the chief pilot for the Titan submersible — a suggestion that led to her quitting her job.

The former director — who was not named — talked to The New Yorker's Ben Taubabout her encounter with Rush.

Rush asked her about becoming the submersible's head pilot after firing David Lochridge, the submarine pilot originally billed for the role, she told Taub.

Lochridge was initially sued by OceanGate in 2018, but he countersued the organization and alleged that he was fired after raising key concerns about the Titan's hull. In his report, Taub also detailed conversations between Lochridge and other submersible experts who raised concerns about the Titan's safety in exchanges with Rush.

Soon after Lochridge was fired, Rush asked the finance director to fill in for the pilot, she told Taub.

"It freaked me out that he would want me to be head pilot, since my background is in accounting," she told the New Yorker.

She said she "did not trust" Rush because Lochridge was no longer working at OceanGate and quit her job as soon as she found a new role elsewhere, Taub reported.

The former director added that some of OceanGate's engineers were teenagers when they worked for the company, while others were in their early twenties, the New Yorker reported. Some of the engineers were also paid $15 per hour at one point, the former director told Taub.

The Titan imploded on June 18 while carrying five people — including Rush — to the wreck of the Titanic some 13,000 feet underwater. It lost contact with its mother ship around 1 ½ hours into its descent, and it was likely thousands of feet beneath the surface when its hull collapsed.

Before the Titan's final dive, Rush was repeatedly cautioned by submersible experts about the experimental nature of his vessel. But he pushed back against their warnings, citing his desire to innovate and belief that industry safety standards were too strict.

Rush believed his vessel was sound enough to run tours to the Titanic reliably, and he told a friend in 2018 that he would shut OceanGate down before operating an unsafe vessel.

OceanGate did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent outside regular business hours.

[Gil Bang 25865]

6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

@Gil Bang??

Yep. Gil Bang, M.D. (Motel Dick)

https://i.imgur.com/hPJflwN.mp4

 

 

 

 

[elfenix 34168]

A theology class anticipated they would be asked to discuss St. Peter on their final. When the Professor wrote "Criticize Jesus"on the board, the class was stunned. Nobody moved for 5 minutes. Then one student opened his bluebook, and started madly writing until he filled the book, for which he receiver an "A". What did he write? "Who am I to criticize Jesus? But let me tell you about St. Peter..."
I only have an opinion of the implosion dynamics of Titan, but a more informed understanding of the explosion/rupture of similar pressure vessel.
Large commercial propane tanks range in size from tanker trucks (10,000 gallons), to rail cars (30,000 gallons) to fixed storage tanks (60-90,000 gallons, 10-12 feet in diameter, 60-90 feet long ). All have similar construction, hemispherical heads welded to a rolled steel plate shell, with a maximum pressure of ~250 PSI.  Tanks are filled with liquid propane to a maximum of 90% of the volume, with the remaining 10% being filled with vapor. A pressure relief valve vents high pressure vapor insuring the tanks are never over pressured.
In those very rare cases when a tank ruptures, fire is almost always the cause of the rupture. Flames impinging on the tank boils the liquid propane at a rate that exceeds the capacity of the pressure relief valve, increasing the internal pressure in the tank until it explodes. The resulting BLEVE,  "boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion", results in a catastrophic destruction of the storage tank.  BLEVE
Storage tanks installed at Gas Processing plants usually have saddles welded to the tanks, which are bolted to reinforced concrete foundations. They are meant to be permanent installations that do not move.

For tanks with welded saddles, the ruptured tank is usually torn into 3 distinct pieces; The saddle (1) , the orange peel (2), and the bullet (3).  (Note this picture shows a tank laying on a concrete saddle as opposed to having a welded saddle.)
 
The saddle portion of the tank is left attached to the foundation, the orange peel is torn off and looks like an orange that has been peeled in one piece. The bullet, appropriately nicknamed, becomes an opened ended projectile ejected at high pressure, with the additional energy provided by a 10 foot diameter, open ended, liquid fueled rocket engine. the bullet can be projected 1-2 miles from the explosion.  In the films I saw in the early 80's, they usually found the guys camera, not always the guy.

In my opinion, the Titan implosion is similar, but different.  Similar, as in a rapid, catastrophic failure. Titan's construction of a carbon fiber shell mechanically joined to the titanium heads was a big red "x" for me, for a lot of reasons. I don't think you can stress relieve carbon fiber the way you can steel. 6,000 PSI? No f$%&ing way!!!
Anything attached to the hull in any way would localize stress at a specific point rather than distributing the stress uniformly across the entire surface.  The picture of something mechanically joined (screwed) to the internal wall was scary, reminded me of Clark Griswold picking at the walls of the Hoover Dam.
A localized stress could lead to a failure that would quickly implode the capsule. When the capsule integrity was compromised and exposed to the 6,000 PSI water pressure, the rapid increase in internal pressure confined to a tiny volume would be a violent transfer of energy, destroying the mechanical coupling of the shell to the metal heads, and obliterating everything that wasn't solid.
Uugh!
 
 

[CycleTex87 2953]

They’re not called “bullet tanks” for nothing. 

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

Unconfirmed sub transcript 

 

[Deej 76511]

So, according to Jeff Ward today, there were sites taking bets on what a happened. I wish I'd thought about that. 

[blacklab 11841]

12:10 of the above video:

Quote

If there's a pinhole of water gets in there it's going to send a laser beam of water in there that will slash your arm off

That guy must have read surly and saw my theory.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

If the transcript is accurate, they had 19 minutes to beat the ever-loving fuck out of Stockton Rush.

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

wrong thread. 
 

Jimmy is smart. I am dumb. 
 

Jimmy is good looking. I am unattractive. 
 

Be more like jimmy

Edited July 6, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

Bet Online has the odds up

https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/entertainment/white-house-cocaine-owner

BetOnline gave the first son +170 odds that he was the one enjoying a spot of nose candy in the West Wing, beating out a tall list of generally silly longshot candidates such as Angelina Jolie (+1400), “One of the Jonas Brothers” (+1000), Snoop Dogg (+1600), and Elton John (+1600), among others. 

Good thread choice.

[ClubWhatever 12085]

Yeah the early warning system isn't much use if you get the ballast calculations wrong.  

[Deej 76511]

It's a damn shame that they didn't take Celine Dion with them on the excursion.

[Gatorubet 30064]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:15 PM, PTINS said:

The resulting BLEVE,  "boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion", results in a catastrophic destruction of the storage tank.  BLEVE

[dcbc 14388]

On 7/3/2023 at 12:11 PM, MrBig said:

Rush believed his vessel was sound enough to run tours to the Titanic reliably, and he told a friend in 2018 that he would shut OceanGate down before operating an unsafe vessel.

He shut it down about the same time as ultimately operating an unsafe vessel.  So close.

[Armybrat 40678]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:28 AM, CycleTex87 said:

I ain’t clicking on that. 

I did.

Don’t do it.

[FartingMonk 3606]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:15 PM, PTINS said:

A theology class anticipated they would be asked to discuss St. Peter on their final. When the Professor wrote "Criticize Jesus"on the board, the class was stunned. Nobody moved for 5 minutes. Then one student opened his bluebook, and started madly writing until he filled the book, for which he receiver an "A". What did he write? "Who am I to criticize Jesus? But let me tell you about St. Peter..."

I only have an opinion of the implosion dynamics of Titan, but a more informed understanding of the explosion/rupture of similar pressure vessel.

Large commercial propane tanks range in size from tanker trucks (10,000 gallons), to rail cars (30,000 gallons) to fixed storage tanks (60-90,000 gallons, 10-12 feet in diameter, 60-90 feet long ). All have similar construction, hemispherical heads welded to a rolled steel plate shell, with a maximum pressure of ~250 PSI.  Tanks are filled with liquid propane to a maximum of 90% of the volume, with the remaining 10% being filled with vapor. A pressure relief valve vents high pressure vapor insuring the tanks are never over pressured.

In those very rare cases when a tank ruptures, fire is almost always the cause of the rupture. Flames impinging on the tank boils the liquid propane at a rate that exceeds the capacity of the pressure relief valve, increasing the internal pressure in the tank until it explodes. The resulting BLEVE,  "boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion", results in a catastrophic destruction of the storage tank.  BLEVE

Storage tanks installed at Gas Processing plants usually have saddles welded to the tanks, which are bolted to reinforced concrete foundations. They are meant to be permanent installations that do not move.

For tanks with welded saddles, the ruptured tank is usually torn into 3 distinct pieces; The saddle (1) , the orange peel (2), and the bullet (3).  (Note this picture shows a tank laying on a concrete saddle as opposed to having a welded saddle.)

 

The saddle portion of the tank is left attached to the foundation, the orange peel is torn off and looks like an orange that has been peeled in one piece. The bullet, appropriately nicknamed, becomes an opened ended projectile ejected at high pressure, with the additional energy provided by a 10 foot diameter, open ended, liquid fueled rocket engine. the bullet can be projected 1-2 miles from the explosion.  In the films I saw in the early 80's, they usually found the guys camera, not always the guy.

Bleve explosion

In my opinion, the Titan implosion is similar, but different.  Similar, as in a rapid, catastrophic failure. Titan's construction of a carbon fiber shell mechanically joined to the titanium heads was a big red "x" for me, for a lot of reasons. I don't think you can stress relieve carbon fiber the way you can steel. 6,000 PSI? No f$%&ing way!!!

Anything attached to the hull in any way would localize stress at a specific point rather than distributing the stress uniformly across the entire surface.  The picture of something mechanically joined (screwed) to the internal wall was scary, reminded me of Clark Griswold picking at the walls of the Hoover Dam.

A localized stress could lead to a failure that would quickly implode the capsule. When the capsule integrity was compromised and exposed to the 6,000 PSI water pressure, the rapid increase in internal pressure confined to a tiny volume would be a violent transfer of energy, destroying the mechanical coupling of the shell to the metal heads, and obliterating everything that wasn't solid.

Uugh!

 

 

They died because of hubris   the Rush guy thought he was the smartest guy in the room.  There was ample research to tell him it was dumb.  It's akin to being a drunk driver.  Well I got away with it once so that means Im a good drunk driver.  People told him it was dumb.  He said no.  You guys are dumb and don't understand how innovative it is.

[C-Man 26992]

If things went down like this guy thinks, this is nothing but unadulterated nightmare fuel: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12286881/Titanic-sub-victims-knew-fate-minute-3-000ft-nosedive-expert-says.html

Quote

The passengers that died on the Titan submersible would have been aware of the impending catastrophe for a minute before the implosion, an expert has said.

Spanish submarine expert José Luis Martín suggested the submersible could have lost stability due to an electrical failure that left it without propulsion, causing it to fall toward the seabed 'like an arrow vertically' with its porthole facing down.

He estimated that the sub began freefalling at a depth of around 5,600 feet and fell 'as if it were a stone and without any control' for about 3,000 feet until at around 8,600 feet it 'popped like a balloon' due to the rapidly changing pressure.

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Martin suggested the passengers would have been piled on top of each other in terrifying total darkness throughout the fall, which would have lasted between 48 and 71 seconds.

The Titan submersible lost communications with its support vessel on Sunday, June 18, during a descent to the wreck of the Titanic 12,500 feet beneath the surface. 

Days later, its debris was recovered. It was said to have suffered a 'catastrophic implosion'. 

Tourists Hamish Harding, 58, Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his son Sulaiman Dawood, 19, French Navy pilot Paul-Henry (PH) Nargeolet and OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush all died on the submersible. 

Spanish submarine expert José Luis Martín (pictured) said the Titan fell 'like an arrow vertically' due to a power failure and a loss of stability

Martin offered his theory as to how the submersible failed during an interview with Spanish newspaper Nius.

'The starting point is that the submarine is descending without any incident and in a horizontal plane until it reached about 1,700 meters (5,500 feet).

'At that point, there was an electrical failure. It was left without an engine and without propulsion. That's when it lost communication with the Polar Prince,' he told the newspaper.

He then suggested that the lack of propulsion would have caused it to lose stability and begin descending rapidly.

'The Titan changed position and fell like an arrow vertically, because the 400 kilos of passengers that were in the porthole compromised the submarine. They all rushed and crowded on top of each other,' Martín added.

'Imagine the horror, the fear and the agony. It must have been like a horror movie.'

 

[Rimbo 25752]

20 minutes ago, C-Man said:

If things went down like this guy thinks, this is nothing but unadulterated nightmare fuel: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12286881/Titanic-sub-victims-knew-fate-minute-3-000ft-nosedive-expert-says.html

 

I really feel badly for the kid.

[Captainant 27311]

an actual engineer did a good video on the glaring compromises made during the design phase that led to this inevitable implosion

 

[C-Man 26992]

https://apple.news/Aumk9UUn9RyaKI-glZ8TpJw

OceanGate’s First Ever Sub Is for Sale—for $795,000
The owner doesn’t think anyone will be interested in the vessel, given the company’s recent headline-grabbing exploits.

For the past five years, yacht broker Steve Reoch has been trying to sell an OceanGate submersible. But his job may have gotten harder after one of the company’s vessels, Titan, infamously imploded at the bottom of the ocean last month. “I don't want to have anything to do with it,” Reoch told Insider of the five-man sub called Antipodes. Built by Perry Submersible is 1973, Reoch said the vessel went through “several people and several owners” before OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush bought it to be the company’s first submersible. He also said that Rush took a number of “successful” expeditions on the sub—including one with rapper Macklemore in 2014. But after five years the sub not selling, and Reoch is ready to throw in the towel. “We're in the process of disassociating ourselves from the vessel because it won't sell,” Reoch told Insider. “Nobody's going to be able to sell the submersible for years because of litigation—it's a waste of my time and has been for five years.”
Read it at Insider.

[mchookem 16095]

[Telegraph_it 3353]

Nothing about this story ever got better. 

[Rimbo 25752]

51 minutes ago, C-Man said:

https://apple.news/Aumk9UUn9RyaKI-glZ8TpJw
 

I mean, as a collectible it has value. A historical curiosity. A museum piece.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

https://apple.news/Aumk9UUn9RyaKI-glZ8TpJw

25 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I mean, as a collectible it has value. A historical curiosity. A museum piece.

I'm surprised somebody in Branson didn't buy that submersible, then build like  1/10 or 1/20th scale replica of the sunken Titanic, and put the replica at the bottom of one of the lakes near Branson, and then charge tourists $200 a head to take them to the bottom of the lake  in the submersible and so they could visualize what the Titanic looks like sitting 12,000 feet down.

[thunderlounge 7733]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm surprised somebody in Branson didn't buy that submersible, then build like  1/10 or 1/20th scale replica of the sunken Titanic, and put the replica at the bottom of one of the lakes near Branson, and then charge tourists $200 a head to take them to the bottom of the lake  in the submersible and so they could visualize what the Titanic looks like sitting 12,000 feet down.

Why would people want to go for a ride in a submarine built in 1973, that had several previous owners?

Oh wait… Branson. 

[Nivek 16808]

I went on the Nautilus at Disney World. I like turtles.

[hayden_horn 11360]

richard garriott of local game designer and rich guy fame went on this thing or something like it into the marianna trench. he brought up something interesting as he has also been to space. he said he prefers space to water because in space is everything around you trying to get out into the vacuum. in water he said everything around you is trying to come in and crush you. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

1 hour ago, thunderlounge said:

Why would people want to go for a ride in a submarine built in 1973, that had several previous owners?

Do you know how many spouses that were built in 1973 or earlier, and had several previous owners, pass through Branson every year? And yet people still want to go for a ride on them.

1 hour ago, thunderlounge said:

Oh wait… Branson. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

went on this thing or something like it into the marianna trench.

His thing was much fancier, and side note, owned by Gabe Newell of Valve/Steam/Half-Life/Team Fortress fame.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/2020/06/15/austin-astronaut-will-be-first-to-visit-space--poles--and-deepest-ocean-depth

That support ship alone is amazing, and looks like what you'd use to recover the remains of Stockton Rush

https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/vessel/

And the submersible has been commercially certified for unlimited full ocean depth operations, and holds the depth records for all five oceans.

And the crew sits in a spherical titanium pressure hull - kind of a cool cutaway:

[atomheartbevo 89362]

Holy fuck

https://fivedeeps.com/home/technology/sub/

They've taken it down to 36,000 feet.

But they've pressure tested it at 45,000 feet.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

There’s a good doc about it. 

[Rimbo 25752]

8 hours ago, Captainant said:

an actual engineer did a good video on the glaring compromises made during the design phase that led to this inevitable implosion

 

"This is not innovation; it's profiteering." And then goes on to describe what actual innovation might've looked like.

Very well done.

[conVINCEd 21468]

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

richard garriott of local game designer and rich guy fame went on this thing or something like it into the marianna trench. he brought up something interesting as he has also been to space. he said he prefers space to water because in space is everything around you trying to get out into the vacuum. in water he said everything around you is trying to come in and crush you. 

He threw one hell of a haunted house back in the day.